Psychotherapy/Counselling- Starting out, help!

Fembo

Hey all,
I'm a graduate of UCC, with a Masters in Arts. Graduated about 2 years ago, and in the mean time, have become really drawn to becoming a psychotherapist. However, after researching all the different avenues I'm now totally confused. Between IACP, IAPP, NCII, I can't figure out where to start. Obviously I don't want to waste time or money doing a course that won't be recognised, but at this stage I'm not even sure who I'm meant to be recognised by!!
HELP!

krankykitty

Hi,

What courses have you been looking at, and which are you interested in? There are various accrediting bodies for therapists, for different purposes, so it would probably depend on what type of training you were thinking of. It might help to select a few courses you like the look of, and then check their accreditation status.

Odysseus

Fembo wrote: »

Hey all,
I'm a graduate of UCC, with a Masters in Arts. Graduated about 2 years ago, and in the mean time, have become really drawn to becoming a psychotherapist. However, after researching all the different avenues I'm now totally confused. Between IACP, IAPP, NCII, I can't figure out where to start. Obviously I don't want to waste time or money doing a course that won't be recognised, but at this stage I'm not even sure who I'm meant to be recognised by!!
HELP!

Firstly you need to think about the area and the treatment modality you would likt to train as. If you interested in a certain type of treatment, CBT, Rogers, Freud and start looking at courses that will facilitate you in the type of approach and area you would like to work. DBS do a general H Dip and Masters in psychotherapy which would give you more of an overall picture. However, if for example you like Freud then you study a specific analytic course. What you go for my suggestion would be to look at either a H Dip or Masters. There are plently of diploma course out there and some of them are good, but on a person level I rarely refer a person to another therapist who hasn't studied at a Masters level, but that's just me. I'm sure there will be lots of other course suggestions along shortly.

Best of luck with it.

Edit:

Basically what Krankykitty said, you must have just got in there before me.

Fembo

To be honest, I don't have very much experience in the area, other than what I have gleaned through being on the receiving end of psychotherapy! That is what has given me such interest, so I am essentially starting from scratch. I have looked at a variety of courses on offer, but I just can't figure out which would give me the best grounding and practical qualification. For example, on paper the National Counselling Institute of Ireland seems like a perfect option, but I have heard worrying reports about how their degrees are not recognised by governing bodies.

All suggestions greatly appreciated!

Odysseus

Fembo wrote: »

To be honest, I don't have very much experience in the area, other than what I have gleaned through being on the receiving end of psychotherapy! That is what has given me such interest, so I am essentially starting from scratch. I have looked at a variety of courses on offer, but I just can't figure out which would give me the best grounding and practical qualification. For example, on paper the National Counselling Institute of Ireland seems like a perfect option, but I have heard worrying reports about how their degrees are not recognised by governing bodies.

All suggestions greatly appreciated!

I'm not too familar with it, have you a link and I have at look at it. You can contact the bodies concerned to ask if they recognise it. Some of the lads and lassies here might know a bit more. What other courses have you looked at. Also have you a particular interest in any area you would like to work in?

hotspur

NCII are not currently regarded as a top tier accrediting body as far as I can tell. The accrediting body for the largest number of therapists is the IACP ( http://www.irish-counselling.ie/ ) and they have a list of courses on their site.

There is also the IAHIP ( http://www.iahip.com/ ) , they are for those who trained in humanistic therapy and their conditions of membership are higher than the IACP in respect of educational requirements. I can't be 100% sure that my memory is correct on this but I think they require (apart from the course being humanistic and integrative) that it is at postgraduate level and maybe 4 years long.

Then there is the ICP ( http://www.psychotherapy-ireland.com/ ) and the IAPPC ( http://www.iappcare.com/index.php ), I think one of them may be responsible for the accreditation of the other, but again my memory of it is hazy. These are newer groups.

It is worth noting the future possible statutory regulation of the field and what that might mean for accreditation. The European Association of Psychotherapy has an accreditation called the European Certificate of Psychotherapy and the standards for attaining that may become the benchmark in the near future. Take a look at what they are and which courses satisfy them.

Also read the submission by the therapist groups in Ireland to the government asking for statutory regulation of therapy in Ireland and what they wished the training standards to look like:
http://www.psychotherapy-ireland.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/download-registration-of-psychological-therapies-submission-september-2008.doc

There are also the psychoanalytic bodies of which there are numerous ones.

I'm guessing your degree isn't psychology so pursuing counselling psychology and being accredited by the PSI isn't an option for you at the moment.

My advice is to study it at postgraduate level since you are a graduate, keep an eye on future proofing your accreditation if the ECP becomes the required norm for new therapists.
Most courses require a foundation course in counselling and they are plentiful, cost less than €1k, and last a few months.

Given your being attracted to NCII I'm guessing that you are not based in Dublin so that may restrict your choice.

The list of courses on the IACP website is a good start to take a look at what the courses offer:
http://www.irish-counselling.ie/index.php/recognised-training-courses

That list is far from exhaustive. DCU have introduced a seemingly good programme that runs from graduate diploma right up to doctorate in psychotherapy.

Greenlady 1

Yeah the whole thing has changed. I understand the HETAC are currently developing industry wide standards and from what I know the National Counselling Institute of Ireland are the only counselling body who have met their registration standards and for whom they award degrees and masters. Whatever happen in the future NCII is where everyone is putting the bets on

krankykitty

Greenlady 1 wrote: »

Yeah the whole thing has changed. I understand the HETAC are currently developing industry wide standards and from what I know the National Counselling Institute of Ireland are the only counselling body who have met their registration standards and for whom they award degrees and masters. Whatever happen in the future NCII is where everyone is putting the bets on

NCII.... is that you??!

Seriously though, have you any links for that?

hotspur

Greenlady 1 wrote: »

Yeah the whole thing has changed. I understand the HETAC are currently developing industry wide standards and from what I know the National Counselling Institute of Ireland are the only counselling body who have met their registration standards and for whom they award degrees and masters. Whatever happen in the future NCII is where everyone is putting the bets on

This is completely untrue and you sound like a shill for NCII with your 1st post. Nobody who knows anything about the area is putting their money on NCII.

Many counselling training programmes are accredited by universities and thus don't need HETAC to accredit their awards. Also there are other non-university accredited colleges which have their counselling qualifications accredited by HETAC.

Also, and more importantly, being accredited by HETAC for their educational programme is irrelevant to whether they are or will be considered a serious professional body representing counsellors. Currently they are not.

NCII take kids out of school after their leaving cert for their courses. This is a complete joke and ought to illustrate for any serious person that this is not a body which engages in even ethical practice, never mind best practice.

JuliusCaesar

Your best bet is to look at the Irish Council for Psychotherapy website. They have sections for most of the major psychotherapies, and provide accreditation for therapists. Statutory registration for therapists is coming in in the near future and they have been involved in talks with the Dept of Health and Children.

Expect whatever modality you go for to be a long road though.

Max001

Good friend of mine, whos done a few years of preparatory courses while waiting for a place on an accredited psychotherapy course in Munster is starting a four year course with Flatstone in Sept. Well, she hopes, as applications open in April, she was telling me yesterday. The course runs via weekly tutorials, with monthly (I think) residential w'ends in Inchydoney, plus an annual residential week in the summer.

You may want to check out SHEP in Cork. Social Health & Education Project. I did the foundation course with them last year and it did exactly what it said it would. Good place to start I think, to test whether psychotherapy as a career is for you. PM me if you like and I'll give you more detail. SHEP would be a good place to get objective local advice on whats available in terms of routes to becomming accredited. They're based in Ballincollig, above B'collig Library.

Odysseus

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Your best bet is to look at the Irish Council for Psychotherapy website. They have sections for most of the major psychotherapies, and provide accreditation for therapists. Statutory registration for therapists is coming in in the near future and they have been involved in talks with the Dept of Health and Children.

Expect whatever modality you go for to be a long road though.

I know I have brought this up a few times, and its great advice, However, it's most not all as you did say. To the best of my knowledge I would not be considered for accreditation by them, and I have put alot of years into my training.

As I said you are giving good advised there, its just a bear-bug of my when it comes across that they are the be all and end all of psychotherapy in Ireland. I'm not saying you are saying that Julius, but it does keep coming up. Maybe its my issues with them coming up;)

Fembo

Thanks for all the suggestions guys! I've been considering doing the foundation course, and then diploma in The Counselling Centre in Cork (Fr. Matthew St.), however I am now also wondering if doing the H. Dip in psychology in UCC may be a good idea. Ideally I'd like to do the H. Dip in Pychotherapy and Counselling but I don't have any of the required experience.

As I'm only 23, and most reputable courses won't let you begin until at least 25 I want to make sure that I spend the remaining time wisely!

JuliusCaesar

Odysseus wrote: »

I know I have brought this up a few times, and its great advice, However, it's most not all as you did say. To the best of my knowledge I would not be considered for accreditation by them, and I have put alot of years into my training.

As I said you are giving good advised there, its just a bear-bug of my when it comes across that they are the be all and end all of psychotherapy in Ireland. I'm not saying you are saying that Julius, but it does keep coming up. Maybe its my issues with them coming up;)

Hi O,
don't they have a rake of psychoanalytic organisations under their umbrella? Jungian, Child, etc. I'm only saying this (i.e. post above) as my contacts there seem to think that their accreditation will be adopted by the Allied Health Professionals Cttee of the DOHC. (I'm not mad about them either, but that's another story!)

hotspur

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Hi O,
don't they have a rake of psychoanalytic organisations under their umbrella? Jungian, Child, etc. I'm only saying this (i.e. post above) as my contacts there seem to think that their accreditation will be adopted by the Allied Health Professionals Cttee of the DOHC. (I'm not mad about them either, but that's another story!)

Yeah the ICP have 3 psychoanalytic organisations affiliated with them but Odysseus is an APPI man and Lacanians don't play well with 2 bit ego psychology neo-Freudians

Odysseus

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Hi O,
don't they have a rake of psychoanalytic organisations under their umbrella? Jungian, Child, etc. I'm only saying this (i.e. post above) as my contacts there seem to think that their accreditation will be adopted by the Allied Health Professionals Cttee of the DOHC. (I'm not mad about them either, but that's another story!)

Actually I think you maybe right, I will have to check up, I was thinking IACP when I made the first post. It really bugs me when people go on as they are the body for Psychotherapy.

Now we have Hotspur's post, the whole accreditation issue caused significant issues in APPI and we lost some long term members who where excellent analysts. I know we where involved in the whole DOHC thing, so maybe do come under that, but I have a feeling we don't. Really need to check again to be sure.

Odysseus

hotspur wrote: »

Yeah the ICP have 3 psychoanalytic organisations affiliated with them but Odysseus is an APPI man and Lacanians don't play well with 2 bit ego psychology neo-Freudians

That's the thing alright, as well as the Lacanian point that only the therapist can authorise themselve as a therapist. However, the issue then is what about the students. Most of the founder members of the APPI that where against us standing over therapists, where afaird of the organisation becoming more about psychotherapy than psychoanalysis. However, most of these guys where also psychologists and psychiatrists, so they had bodies to allow them to work within the HSE, where once Lacanian analysts became involved in the various psychoanalytic courses out there today, people with no previous experience and membership of a body started to train, there where then calls for the APPI to stand over their training.

You may know how much of a problem this caused for the APPI, but we are moving on with the fallout it caused.

mrmcgrath

<advert removed, p.pete>

krankykitty

mrmcgrath wrote: »

Hi,

As you have no direct experience in counselling, you will need to do a foundation course first.

While a foundation course may be useful in finding out whether you want to do the course or not, it is by no means a requirement for many courses...

Odysseus

krankykitty wrote: »

While a foundation course may be useful in finding out whether you want to do the course or not, it is by no means a requirement for many courses...

Your right of course, and if you have a degree there are some courses you can do at post-grad. I'm not knocking the foundation stuff, its great for people to test the water, or for example a lot of the staff in clinics where I work, have done such courses. They would not have any clinical interactions with clinents, but it has increased their ability to carry out their duties. Now there is always the danger of "a little knowledge is dangerous" but for the most part I think it beneficial.

However, for somebody wanting to train as a therapist I feel there is a money making element around a lot of these courses. We have the example of the above ad, but a friend of mine done a foundation course, he knew going into it that he did not want more. This chap is an ex-para so he is not easily put under pressure, however, he felt that his experience of the course was ruined by the lecturers constantly trying to get people to sign up for the next level. At the end of the day, every college is aiming to fil their courses; however, I have to admit its a side of the profession I see happening and it doesn't sit well with. To me its as bad as keeping a patient in therapy longer than they need, just to claim the fee.

krankykitty

Does seem a bit money making all right, its not as if there's a shortage of people to fill the courses in fairness. There was waiting lists and huge academic lecture sizes in my degree course, so it seems like there's plenty of people wanting to actually do the degree. A few people in mine had done foundation courses elsewhere, but the majority did not and I'm not sure it adversely affected those of us who didn't in any way. In fact some of those that did, regretted that they'd spent the time and money on the foundation course as opposed to just going for the training course when they were sure of what they wanted to do.

Obviously is up to you OP but if I had an undergraduate degree I think I'd be more into looking at the postgrad options rather than going to do another degree, you might find the end result is more valuable to you long term...

Quinn206

Hi , I was thinking of doing a general diploma/degree in counselling in the counselling centre in cork , are they a good course provider - I am doing a BA in Addiction but want a degree in counselling also - also is that the best way forward to be a counseller - do the degree in counselling once I finish my ba in addiction ?

Fembo

Hey guys! I don't doubt that the Higher Diploma in Psychology would be a great foundation for such a career, however I'm anxious that after spending so much on a course that I will still be virtually unemployable . I am 23 so finances are of course a concern, so I want to get the most out of whatever course I do!

Do you think I would be better off with somewhere like The Counselling Centre, where I will actually be qualified to do something when I graduate?

Odysseus

Quinn206 wrote: »

Hi , I was thinking of doing a general diploma/degree in counselling in the counselling centre in cork , are they a good course provider - I am doing a BA in Addiction but want a degree in counselling also - also is that the best way forward to be a counseller - do the degree in counselling once I finish my ba in addiction ?

Depending on where you want to work. With the degree depending on what clinical work you have done you may be entitled to membership of IAAAC or IACP. However, I suggest that you look at a further corurse. I know that people in working in the addiction area deal with so many other areas. I hated the term addiction counsellor, it negated so much of the work people where doing. So a post grad psychotherapy qualification with be a good thing.

Quinn206

Odysseus wrote: »

Depending on where you want to work. With the degree depending on what clinical work you have done you may be entitled to membership of IAAAC or IACP. However, I suggest that you look at a further corurse. I know that people in working in the addiction area deal with so many other areas. I hated the term addiction counsellor, it negated so much of the work people where doing. So a post grad psychotherapy qualification with be a good thing.

Thanks Odysseus , your absolutely correct, I was thinking of doing that but was advised by a counseller lecturer that the post grad, whilst only two years would miss a lot of the process that I would gain by starting out in a new degree course in counselling and psychotherapy . I was looking into the cork training centre to do their counselling & psychotherapy course but dont know if they have a good setup ? - they are iacp accredited but would like more insight into them.

Odysseus

Quinn206 wrote: »

Thanks Odysseus , your absolutely correct, I was thinking of doing that but was advised by a counseller lecturer that the post grad, whilst only two years would miss a lot of the process that I would gain by starting out in a new degree course in counselling and psychotherapy . I was looking into the cork training centre to do their counselling & psychotherapy course but dont know if they have a good setup ? - they are iacp accredited but would like more insight into them.

Am I correct in this, you have a BA in Addiction Studies, you where thinking of getting a post-grad qual in some form of psychotherapy, and you where advised to go back to under-grad level? If that is incorrect, please tell me I'm wrong!!

There is nothing wrong with have two BA's, but here they would be in a cognate discipline; so I can't really see the point. However, it's your call and if you feel it will benefit you, then go for it. I was looking at doing another Masters in psychoanalysis this year. I am not going ahead with it now, but I have a very specific reason why I was doing that rather than going for a PhD which would be the next step.

Quinn206

Odysseus wrote: »

Am I correct in this, you have a BA in Addiction Studies, you where thinking of getting a post-grad qual in some form of psychotherapy, and you where advised to go back to under-grad level? If that is incorrect, please tell me I'm wrong!!

There is nothing wrong with have two BA's, but here they would be in a cognate discipline; so I can't really see the point. However, it's your call and if you feel it will benefit you, then go for it. I was looking at doing another Masters in psychoanalysis this year. I am not going ahead with it now, but I have a very specific reason why I was doing that rather than going for a PhD which would be the next step.

- I am nearly finished my BA in addiction , but would like to practice general counselling specialising in addiction - the BA in addiction is very much theory based and I was told the post grad in psychotherapy would be much the same - very little practice or groupwork , nearly all acedemic work - It was hinted that I would miss alot of the process and practical learning skills needed for becoming a general counsellor. also the thoughts of doing another two years mainly academics, would leave me very uncomfortable if I were to set up practice when finished ? - I know i would like the skills and tips for becoming a counsellor and the practice hours would make me more comfortable - any post grad would be 2 years but a degrees in practical counselling skills is 3 ? - am I totally mad

Odysseus

Quinn206 wrote: »

- I am nearly finished my BA in addiction , but would like to practice general counselling specialising in addiction - the BA in addiction is very much theory based and I was told the post grad in psychotherapy would be much the same - very little practice or groupwork , nearly all acedemic work - It was hinted that I would miss alot of the process and practical learning skills needed for becoming a general counsellor. also the thoughts of doing another two years mainly academics, would leave me very uncomfortable if I were to set up practice when finished ? - I know i would like the skills and tips for becoming a counsellor and the practice hours would make me more comfortable - any post grad would be 2 years but a degrees in practical counselling skills is 3 ? - am I totally mad

Another option would be this. Your BA when you get it will fullfil the entry requirements for the IAAAC. You study at a post-grad level, plently of H Dips and Masters in psychotherapy in Dublin if you are prepared to travel. You then start to see private clients under supervision, and you can work on your clinical hours whilst training. You might find it hard to get fee paying clientsm but lots of places will facilitate people on a voluntary basis.

Are you interested in any particular modality of counselling or psychotherapy?

Quinn206

Odysseus wrote: »

Another option would be this. Your BA when you get it will fullfil the entry requirements for the IAAAC. You study at a post-grad level, plently of H Dips and Masters in psychotherapy in Dublin if you are prepared to travel. You then start to see private clients under supervision, and you can work on your clinical hours whilst training. You might find it hard to get fee paying clientsm but lots of places will facilitate people on a voluntary basis.

Are you interested in any particular modality of counselling or psychotherapy?

I like CBT but also the humanistic approach but with more research I will get a better idea of which one is best for me - I am just trying to get college finished so I can get hired / practice and gain experience, the addiction is really interesting but mabe not for me as a full time profession - I think I did the courses the wrong way around - and as money is at a premium , I want the next step to be the right one !! - so many courses - all offering the same, - I checked out post grad courses in cork and limerick and only found UCC & UL - Is their any more down their /

portia12

Hi,

I am very confused and would appreciate some advice. I am thinking of applying to do the masters with NCII in counselling and psychotherapy but I have read alot of negative things about the course on these boards. I have a Bsc in applied psychology and sociology which would allow me to join the BPS. If I complete this masters am I going to be as employable as students who enter through other routes? I asked them (ncii) about accreditation with other bodies and they say that it is not necessary as they are an accrediting body in their own right. I am so confused as obvioulsy I dont want to waste money on a course that will not make me employable.

Any opinions would be appreciated

krankykitty

portia12 wrote: »

Hi,

I am very confused and would appreciate some advice. I am thinking of applying to do the masters with NCII in counselling and psychotherapy but I have read alot of negative things about the course on these boards. I have a Bsc in applied psychology and sociology which would allow me to join the BPS. If I complete this masters am I going to be as employable as students who enter through other routes? I asked them (ncii) about accreditation with other bodies and they say that it is not necessary as they are an accrediting body in their own right. I am so confused as obvioulsy I dont want to waste money on a course that will not make me employable.

Any opinions would be appreciated

I think the fact that they accredit their own courses speaks volumes, this doesn't strike me as best practice. They are obviously going to tell you it is not necessary to get you to do the course, so if in doubt check with the other bodies to see what they think. You really don't want to waste your time and money if there's a different course that does actually meet your needs out there.

If your undergrad course is accredited by the BPS, could you apply for a masters in counselling psychology?

JuliusCaesar

You're right krankykitty....with statutory registration coming in, it's really important to have a qualification which is recognised. See the sticky about statutory registration.

emnic

Hi!
I am wondering if anyone can help me. I am looking to do a course that qualifies me to be a counselling clinician. I have a Psychology BA from UCD, and an MSc in Counselling Studies from the University of Edinburgh. My MSc was one year long and was a taught programme and consisted of a research dissertation and numerous hours of taught theory and some practical workshops with other students. This MSc does not provide a full professional training to work as a counsellor or psychotherapist in the United Kingdom, and it therefore does not include any clinical placements. It is accredited by COSCA, the professional body for counselling and psychotherapy in Scotland.

The two options I am looking into are:
the Doctorate in Counselling Psychology at TCD - I had an interview but won't hear back for a few weeks - but I'm not counting on being offered a place;
And the diploma in integrative counselling and psychotherapy in IICP - I have an interview in June - I knowthis course is accredited by IACP - but I am unsure how good this is. If anyone has done this course I would love to hear from you.

hotspur

emnic wrote: »

And the diploma in integrative counselling and psychotherapy in IICP - I have an interview in June - I knowthis course is accredited by IACP - but I am unsure how good this is. If anyone has done this course I would love to hear from you.

You should be aware that IICP is quite reality therapy focused. I did their foundation course there before. Their diploma being only 2 years is a plus for many people, but the reality therapy focus would be a minus in my book.

It being an undergraduate course and only 2 years duration will likely be an issue when statutory regulation comes in. Read the submission of the psychotherapy regulating bodies for future statutory regulations:
http://www.psychotherapy-ireland.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/download-registration-of-psychological-therapies-submission-september-2008.doc

For someone who has a degree in psychology and a Masters you may wish to consider future proofing yourself in the course you choose. You have options which others choosing a course like IICP may not. Doing such a course would not result in you being eligible to get the European Certificate of Psychotherapy, and would leave you undertrained if the submission on statutory regulation came into being.

If you can't get the doctorate in Trinity you may wish to do a postgraduate diploma / Masters with the likes of DCU, Tivoli, or Turning point. It might turn out to be a good idea to do a course which will allow you to become accredited with the Irish Council for Psychotherapy and get the ECP.

Some people training in counselling don't have the options you have, having the undergraduate diploma in IICP as the fallback for a doctorate in counselling psychology is understandable in respect of having a fallback option, but its rather like having a PLC course as a fallback option if you don't get a Masters imo.

JuliusCaesar

Are you not looking into any other recognised psychology options eg clinical? Not only are the psychology courses widely recognised, but they are also probably better....(ducks under parapet)

Certainly the career options for psychologists are better defined, and much better paid.

emnic

I haven't ruled out clinical... It's just i'm only 23 and I'm restless... I want to get moving on a career! Clinical is so tough to get into! I haven't had enough practical experience to be offered a place and I think my age would stand against me. And besides my end goal is to be a psychotherapist and i do not wish to work with individuals with severe psychiatric issues. Although I prefer the conditions of a clinical doctorate... Like being funded by the hse... I feel there are many routes to the end product i'm looking for. Anyways! I have an interview for the tivoli institute tomorrow so if anyone has any suggestions I'd appreciate it...

Odysseus

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Are you not looking into any other recognised psychology options eg clinical? Not only are the psychology courses widely recognised, but they are also probably better....(ducks under parapet)

Certainly the career options for psychologists are better defined, and much better paid.

To be fair, there is no need to duck on that one;), I having being advising people for years to look at psychology for the reasons you state above. If they are interest in psychotherapy they can do further training then.

learning2010

Hi, I'm looking at doing the diploma IICP, my reasons for doing it are basically out of interest but in the back of my mind I'd like to think it would equip me with the skills to become a counsellor as a career/vocation. I have a foundation course but don't have an undergrad in psycotherapy but am wondering is IICP not considered reputable at diploma level based on the comments below? It's IACP recognised.
Are there generally career opportunities after these courses.?

hotspur wrote: »

You should be aware that IICP is quite reality therapy focused. I did their foundation course there before. Their diploma being only 2 years is a plus for many people, but the reality therapy focus would be a minus in my book.

It being an undergraduate course and only 2 years duration will likely be an issue when statutory regulation comes in. Read the submission of the psychotherapy regulating bodies for future statutory regulations:
http://www.psychotherapy-ireland.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/download-registration-of-psychological-therapies-submission-september-2008.doc

For someone who has a degree in psychology and a Masters you may wish to consider future proofing yourself in the course you choose. You have options which others choosing a course like IICP may not. Doing such a course would not result in you being eligible to get the European Certificate of Psychotherapy, and would leave you undertrained if the submission on statutory regulation came into being.

If you can't get the doctorate in Trinity you may wish to do a postgraduate diploma / Masters with the likes of DCU, Tivoli, or Turning point. It might turn out to be a good idea to do a course which will allow you to become accredited with the Irish Council for Psychotherapy and get the ECP.

Some people training in counselling don't have the options you have, having the undergraduate diploma in IICP as the fallback for a doctorate in counselling psychology is understandable in respect of having a fallback option, but its rather like having a PLC course as a fallback option if you don't get a Masters imo.

hotspur

learning2010 wrote: »

Hi, I'm looking at doing the diploma IICP, my reasons for doing it are basically out of interest but in the back of my mind I'd like to think it would equip me with the skills to become a counsellor as a career/vocation. I have a foundation course but don't have an undergrad in psycotherapy but am wondering is IICP not considered reputable at diploma level based on the comments below? It's IACP recognised.
Are there generally career opportunities after these courses.?

It is considered reputable, in the sense that it is IACP accredited. As things currently stand it is fine for carving out a career as a counsellor. Where someone has the option of becoming a psychologist instead (as the person I responded to does) then that it clearly the better option from an opportunity and financial perspective.

The issue of future statutory regulation is something which ought to be considered seriously by anyone undertaking a course in counselling. As I said IICP as an undergraduate 2 year diploma is not up to the standard suggested in the submission on regulation. We don't know what will happen in the future in respect of statutory regulation.

If nothing changes then you will still be able to become a counsellor by taking such a course.

The issue of career opportunities is another issue. If you're looking to make money then don't become a counsellor. It's a struggle for most.

JuliusCaesar

hotspur wrote: »

If you're looking to make money then don't become a counsellor. It's a struggle for most.

I'm beginning to think this quote could be a sticky by itself.

Thanks H!

learning2010

What does that means. What's a sticky?

Odysseus

learning2010 wrote: »

What does that means. What's a sticky?

They are the information threads at the top of the page. The never move from the top as new posts are added, they are stuck there, hence stickies. Well that's my explanation of them;)

Andrew_Wray

Fembo wrote: »

Hey all,
I'm a graduate of UCC, with a Masters in Arts. Graduated about 2 years ago, and in the mean time, have become really drawn to becoming a psychotherapist. However, after researching all the different avenues I'm now totally confused. Between IACP, IAPP, NCII, I can't figure out where to start. Obviously I don't want to waste time or money doing a course that won't be recognised, but at this stage I'm not even sure who I'm meant to be recognised by!!
HELP!

contact the Metanoia Psychotherapy Training Institute in Ealing, West London who are very well respected internationally to provide training in person centred counsellng and psychotherapy in Rogerian counselling, Transactional Analysis and Gestalt and Integrative Psychotherpay

my own advice is to avoid what are known as the analytical modalities though these do suit the ambitions of a lot of people

it depends if you want to be of the greatest assistance to you client or want to be seen as 'an expert' - the only expertise you ought to aspire to is to be an expert facilitator for those people who come to you for help to facilitate them to sort out for themselves their own problems

counsellors and psychotherapists do not sort out other people's problems

advisors do that

society doe also need psychiatrists who will take responsibility for the rest of us to look after people who are a danger to themselves of to others From Andrew retired accredited psychotherapist - Metanoia trained

axer

Hi,

I am looking for advice for my girlfriend. She is a qualified rehabilitation psychologist from Germany (Higher Degree). She worked as a rehabilitation psychologist in a rehabilitation clinic for one year followed by a year in a public hospital as a child psychologist (both jobs in Germany).

She cannot work as a psychologist here as it does not look likely the PSI would accredit her qualification (and we don't have the money to throw away just to be told no - plus she does not have a postgrad).

She is looking at doing an Honours Degree in Counselling and Psychotheraphy so that she can possibly get a proper job here.

I have three questions that maybe someone could answer:
1. Are Counselling and Psychotheraphy (with regards to the qualification) properly recognised as forms of treatment? (I hope nobody takes offence to me asking this question)

2. Are there actually jobs out there or do most people have to start their own clinics? (do the HSE hire Counsellors or health insurance companies pay for visits to counsellors?) I am hestitant that we would pay 20k for a degree that doesn't result in a job or a return of the investment.

3. There seems to be a number of accrediting bodies. Which body would be best to go with so that her qualification would be recognised european-wide (so that if we go back to Germany it might be of some use)? They all seem to claim that theirs is but I am skeptical. I like the NCII as it is HETAC awarded but I am not sure still.

Thanks for any help/advice.

DeltaBeta

Hi KrankyKitty, I saw on a previous thread that you mentioned statutory regulation of counselling is on its way, could you give me some detail about this? Is it pending or being mooted? Thanks

hotspur

Axer,
1) Yes, obviously psychotherapy is a properly recognised form of treatment.

2) The HSE do hire counsellors as do many other agencies, many work as self-employed. There are a lot of counsellors out there, they are not a scarce resource.

3) You are on the wrong track with NCII. Don't be confused about what HETAC is and isn't. HETAC accredit educational courses, they have nothing to do with accreditation of professions, and their accrediting of a course means nothing in respect of that course being well regarded by any psychotherapy accrediting body. All the psychotherapy courses your girlfriend could do will be accredited by some 3rd level institute in Ireland, UK, or HETAC.

If she wants to ensure that her qualification will be respected internationally then she should ensure that it will allow her to be eligible for the European Certificate of Psychotherapy which is given out by the European Association for Psychotherapy. In Ireland the accrediting body which hands it out is the Irish Council for Psychotherapy:
http://www.psychotherapy-ireland.com/
You can go to the European Association for Psychotherapy website and find out what kind of training is required to get the ECP and match courses from here which suit.

Delabeta, you can read about the proposals for statutory regulation here (download 1st link for the submission to the government by the psychotherapy bodies recommending it):
http://www.psychotherapy-ireland.com/2008/10/psychological-therapists-call-on-government-to-introduce-statutory-registration-for-their-professions-in-ireland/

No idea what the current prospect of it coming in is, but with the UK having introduced it I'm going to guess that it will happen in some form at some stage.

Emmmms

hey guys,

Maybe you can help me, i'm in a similar situation to fembo, im 23 and have an joint arts degree in english & psychology & sociology and a masters in sociology. I'm wanting to pursue a career in psychotherapy, i did some psychoanalysis in my undergrad so feel suited to psychoanalytic psychotherapy. Having just gotten rejected from the MSc in psychoanalytic psychotherapy from ucd today i'm now unsure as to what to do next. Ucd suggested i do the hdip in psychotherapy studies, however this seems to just provide an introduction to psychotherapy which i feel i dont need as im already familiar with its priciples. They also told me i was too young to undertake this course at 23, and that i need to acquire clinical expereince, however im unsure how to realise this requirement without any training in the area. I've looked at the dbs masters but am unsure about it, whether its highly regarded etc..

if anyone could recommend what my best options are it'd be greatly appreciated

hotspur

Odysseus is our resident psychoanalyst so hopefully he'll read your post and give you some guidance.

Just to say in terms of getting into a Masters in psychoanalytic psychotherapy at this late stage maybe take a look at Independent Colleges:
http://www.independentcolleges.ie/faculties_and_courses/arts/ma_in_psychotherapy_level_9.html

You will probably get good attention in this course too, I know someone doing it during the day and I think you can count the number of students in her class on one hand.

Odysseus

Emmmms wrote: »

hey guys,

Maybe you can help me, i'm in a similar situation to fembo, im 23 and have an joint arts degree in english & psychology & sociology and a masters in sociology. I'm wanting to pursue a career in psychotherapy, i did some psychoanalysis in my undergrad so feel suited to psychoanalytic psychotherapy. Having just gotten rejected from the MSc in psychoanalytic psychotherapy from ucd today i'm now unsure as to what to do next. Ucd suggested i do the hdip in psychotherapy studies, however this seems to just provide an introduction to psychotherapy which i feel i dont need as im already familiar with its priciples. They also told me i was too young to undertake this course at 23, and that i need to acquire clinical expereince, however im unsure how to realise this requirement without any training in the area. I've looked at the dbs masters but am unsure about it, whether its highly regarded etc..

if anyone could recommend what my best options are it'd be greatly appreciated

The clinical MA in DBS is considered a good course within the psychoanalytic community, if you have studied psychoanalysis already you should get access to it. Some people who have completed the MSc in UCD think they have done a better course than the MA. I know people who have done both, I think content wise they are roughly the same.

As Hotspur noted the HDip or MA in the Independant college would be another option. I'm running late for work at the moment, if you want any extra info I can answer any more questions later on.

lookingaround

hotspur wrote: »

This is completely untrue and you sound like a shill for NCII with your 1st post. Nobody who knows anything about the area is putting their money on NCII.

Many counselling training programmes are accredited by universities and thus don't need HETAC to accredit their awards. Also there are other non-university accredited colleges which have their counselling qualifications accredited by HETAC.

Also, and more importantly, being accredited by HETAC for their educational programme is irrelevant to whether they are or will be considered a serious professional body representing counsellors. Currently they are not.

NCII take kids out of school after their leaving cert for their courses. This is a complete joke and ought to illustrate for any serious person that this is not a body which engages in even ethical practice, never mind best practice.

WOW what an interesting 'spat', here! I have a few friends studying with NCII, they offer programmes around the country and one friend is studying with them in Dublin and one in Galway. However, there are clearly strong views in relation to NCII. Interestingly one of my friends undertaking their Masters programme with NCII is professionally accredited with IACP and she says there are others accredited with other bodies too. If you follow some of the posts in relation to this issue I think that you will find some considerable difference in relation to people's perception of being members of many of the professional bodies so it might be interesting to consider where some of these views of NCII are comming from.

In relation to the Psychological Therapies Forum NCII is one of the 15 (I think) professional bodies sitting on that body and I assume like the other 14 bodies it fully subscribes to the suggested standards. Those standards suggest that counsellors be educated to Level 8 on the National Framework of Educational Standards and psychotherapists to Level 9 into the future, yet many of the 'professionally accredited' programmes on some of the siteds I have seen are at lower levels that those, yet they seem acceptable to the relevant bodies for professional membership.

Professional bodies are not the competent authorities in relation to such programmes, other than to determine what is acceptable to themselves. In many ways it is like a golf club setting their own rules of membership, but when they then declare that courses are 'accredited' it presents them with an air of authority. I find it somewhat disturbing that many of them have accredited programmes at a level lower that that which they suggest as the minimum reguirements in the document you refer to.

In any event, it is important for any potential student of counselling or counselling to know that under the Universities Act the Universities have legitimate competence to award such degrees within the University sector and outside that sector, HETAC are the competent authority in Ireland under statute.

Essentially any professional body decides itself on the appropriateness of programmes for membership of their own body, thats all! That is a significant difference and those undertaking programmes need to be conscious of both these things. Either the Universities or HETAC (in the Institutes of Technology or Independent Colleges) determine the acceptable standard of all of their programmes - all of which are educational programmes and many of which prepare people for professional practice. They all do so against best international standards, so to denigrade any programme which is accredited by the appropriate and competent statutory authority is somewhat problematic in my view, especially in an unregulated sector. When programmes are considered by either any of the Universities or HETAC, they invite a panel of experts, both professional and academic to consider the programme on fairly stringent criteria. The process does not just involve members of any professional body alone. They do so accross a number of disciplines and ones such as nursing, medicine and others which have the one thing counselling and psychotherapy badly needs, namely statutory regulation, so 'dismissing' HETAC or University approved programmes is somewhat disingenuous.

hotspur

lookingaround wrote: »

I have a few friends studying with NCII,

lookingaround wrote: »

so 'dismissing' HETAC or University approved programmes is somewhat disingenuous.

I'm the one being disingenuous? You're not someone who has "a few friends studying with NCII" you are obviously involved with them and the above detailed description is marketing not a forum post by someone who has any commitment to the spirit of the community in which boards operates.

Your 3 posts have all been NCII marketing. You're almost certainly a shill, and it reflects very poorly on NCII if they sanction this kind of undercover marketing.