Psychotherapy/Counselling- Starting out, help!

Fembo · 13-01-2010 7:22pm #1

Hey all,
I'm a graduate of UCC, with a Masters in Arts. Graduated about 2 years ago, and in the mean time, have become really drawn to becoming a psychotherapist. However, after researching all the different avenues I'm now totally confused. Between IACP, IAPP, NCII, I can't figure out where to start. Obviously I don't want to waste time or money doing a course that won't be recognised, but at this stage I'm not even sure who I'm meant to be recognised by!!
HELP!

krankykitty · 13-01-2010 8:51pm

Hi,

What courses have you been looking at, and which are you interested in? There are various accrediting bodies for therapists, for different purposes, so it would probably depend on what type of training you were thinking of. It might help to select a few courses you like the look of, and then check their accreditation status.

Odysseus · 13-01-2010 8:55pm

Fembo wrote: »

Hey all,
I'm a graduate of UCC, with a Masters in Arts. Graduated about 2 years ago, and in the mean time, have become really drawn to becoming a psychotherapist. However, after researching all the different avenues I'm now totally confused. Between IACP, IAPP, NCII, I can't figure out where to start. Obviously I don't want to waste time or money doing a course that won't be recognised, but at this stage I'm not even sure who I'm meant to be recognised by!!
HELP!

Firstly you need to think about the area and the treatment modality you would likt to train as. If you interested in a certain type of treatment, CBT, Rogers, Freud and start looking at courses that will facilitate you in the type of approach and area you would like to work. DBS do a general H Dip and Masters in psychotherapy which would give you more of an overall picture. However, if for example you like Freud then you study a specific analytic course. What you go for my suggestion would be to look at either a H Dip or Masters. There are plently of diploma course out there and some of them are good, but on a person level I rarely refer a person to another therapist who hasn't studied at a Masters level, but that's just me. I'm sure there will be lots of other course suggestions along shortly.

Best of luck with it.

Edit:

Basically what Krankykitty said, you must have just got in there before me.

Fembo · 14-01-2010 12:19am

To be honest, I don't have very much experience in the area, other than what I have gleaned through being on the receiving end of psychotherapy! That is what has given me such interest, so I am essentially starting from scratch. I have looked at a variety of courses on offer, but I just can't figure out which would give me the best grounding and practical qualification. For example, on paper the National Counselling Institute of Ireland seems like a perfect option, but I have heard worrying reports about how their degrees are not recognised by governing bodies.

All suggestions greatly appreciated!

Odysseus · 14-01-2010 12:55am

Fembo wrote: »

To be honest, I don't have very much experience in the area, other than what I have gleaned through being on the receiving end of psychotherapy! That is what has given me such interest, so I am essentially starting from scratch. I have looked at a variety of courses on offer, but I just can't figure out which would give me the best grounding and practical qualification. For example, on paper the National Counselling Institute of Ireland seems like a perfect option, but I have heard worrying reports about how their degrees are not recognised by governing bodies.

All suggestions greatly appreciated!

I'm not too familar with it, have you a link and I have at look at it. You can contact the bodies concerned to ask if they recognise it. Some of the lads and lassies here might know a bit more. What other courses have you looked at. Also have you a particular interest in any area you would like to work in?

hotspur · 14-01-2010 1:47am

NCII are not currently regarded as a top tier accrediting body as far as I can tell. The accrediting body for the largest number of therapists is the IACP ( http://www.irish-counselling.ie/ ) and they have a list of courses on their site.

There is also the IAHIP ( http://www.iahip.com/ ) , they are for those who trained in humanistic therapy and their conditions of membership are higher than the IACP in respect of educational requirements. I can't be 100% sure that my memory is correct on this but I think they require (apart from the course being humanistic and integrative) that it is at postgraduate level and maybe 4 years long.

Then there is the ICP ( http://www.psychotherapy-ireland.com/ ) and the IAPPC ( http://www.iappcare.com/index.php ), I think one of them may be responsible for the accreditation of the other, but again my memory of it is hazy. These are newer groups.

It is worth noting the future possible statutory regulation of the field and what that might mean for accreditation. The European Association of Psychotherapy has an accreditation called the European Certificate of Psychotherapy and the standards for attaining that may become the benchmark in the near future. Take a look at what they are and which courses satisfy them.

Also read the submission by the therapist groups in Ireland to the government asking for statutory regulation of therapy in Ireland and what they wished the training standards to look like:
http://www.psychotherapy-ireland.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/download-registration-of-psychological-therapies-submission-september-2008.doc

There are also the psychoanalytic bodies of which there are numerous ones.

I'm guessing your degree isn't psychology so pursuing counselling psychology and being accredited by the PSI isn't an option for you at the moment.

My advice is to study it at postgraduate level since you are a graduate, keep an eye on future proofing your accreditation if the ECP becomes the required norm for new therapists.
Most courses require a foundation course in counselling and they are plentiful, cost less than €1k, and last a few months.

Given your being attracted to NCII I'm guessing that you are not based in Dublin so that may restrict your choice.

The list of courses on the IACP website is a good start to take a look at what the courses offer:
http://www.irish-counselling.ie/index.php/recognised-training-courses

That list is far from exhaustive. DCU have introduced a seemingly good programme that runs from graduate diploma right up to doctorate in psychotherapy.

Greenlady 1 · 15-01-2010 2:57pm

Yeah the whole thing has changed. I understand the HETAC are currently developing industry wide standards and from what I know the National Counselling Institute of Ireland are the only counselling body who have met their registration standards and for whom they award degrees and masters. Whatever happen in the future NCII is where everyone is putting the bets on

krankykitty · 15-01-2010 6:44pm

Greenlady 1 wrote: »

Yeah the whole thing has changed. I understand the HETAC are currently developing industry wide standards and from what I know the National Counselling Institute of Ireland are the only counselling body who have met their registration standards and for whom they award degrees and masters. Whatever happen in the future NCII is where everyone is putting the bets on

NCII.... is that you??!

Seriously though, have you any links for that?

hotspur · 15-01-2010 6:56pm

Greenlady 1 wrote: »

Yeah the whole thing has changed. I understand the HETAC are currently developing industry wide standards and from what I know the National Counselling Institute of Ireland are the only counselling body who have met their registration standards and for whom they award degrees and masters. Whatever happen in the future NCII is where everyone is putting the bets on

This is completely untrue and you sound like a shill for NCII with your 1st post. Nobody who knows anything about the area is putting their money on NCII.

Many counselling training programmes are accredited by universities and thus don't need HETAC to accredit their awards. Also there are other non-university accredited colleges which have their counselling qualifications accredited by HETAC.

Also, and more importantly, being accredited by HETAC for their educational programme is irrelevant to whether they are or will be considered a serious professional body representing counsellors. Currently they are not.

NCII take kids out of school after their leaving cert for their courses. This is a complete joke and ought to illustrate for any serious person that this is not a body which engages in even ethical practice, never mind best practice.

JuliusCaesar · 15-01-2010 10:14pm

Your best bet is to look at the Irish Council for Psychotherapy website. They have sections for most of the major psychotherapies, and provide accreditation for therapists. Statutory registration for therapists is coming in in the near future and they have been involved in talks with the Dept of Health and Children.

Expect whatever modality you go for to be a long road though.

Max001 · 18-01-2010 11:34am

Good friend of mine, whos done a few years of preparatory courses while waiting for a place on an accredited psychotherapy course in Munster is starting a four year course with Flatstone in Sept. Well, she hopes, as applications open in April, she was telling me yesterday. The course runs via weekly tutorials, with monthly (I think) residential w'ends in Inchydoney, plus an annual residential week in the summer.

You may want to check out SHEP in Cork. Social Health & Education Project. I did the foundation course with them last year and it did exactly what it said it would. Good place to start I think, to test whether psychotherapy as a career is for you. PM me if you like and I'll give you more detail. SHEP would be a good place to get objective local advice on whats available in terms of routes to becomming accredited. They're based in Ballincollig, above B'collig Library.

Odysseus · 19-01-2010 7:57pm

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Your best bet is to look at the Irish Council for Psychotherapy website. They have sections for most of the major psychotherapies, and provide accreditation for therapists. Statutory registration for therapists is coming in in the near future and they have been involved in talks with the Dept of Health and Children.

Expect whatever modality you go for to be a long road though.

I know I have brought this up a few times, and its great advice, However, it's most not all as you did say. To the best of my knowledge I would not be considered for accreditation by them, and I have put alot of years into my training.

As I said you are giving good advised there, its just a bear-bug of my when it comes across that they are the be all and end all of psychotherapy in Ireland. I'm not saying you are saying that Julius, but it does keep coming up. Maybe its my issues with them coming up;)

Fembo · 20-01-2010 12:29pm

Thanks for all the suggestions guys! I've been considering doing the foundation course, and then diploma in The Counselling Centre in Cork (Fr. Matthew St.), however I am now also wondering if doing the H. Dip in psychology in UCC may be a good idea. Ideally I'd like to do the H. Dip in Pychotherapy and Counselling but I don't have any of the required experience.

As I'm only 23, and most reputable courses won't let you begin until at least 25 I want to make sure that I spend the remaining time wisely!

JuliusCaesar · 20-01-2010 6:52pm

Odysseus wrote: »

I know I have brought this up a few times, and its great advice, However, it's most not all as you did say. To the best of my knowledge I would not be considered for accreditation by them, and I have put alot of years into my training.

As I said you are giving good advised there, its just a bear-bug of my when it comes across that they are the be all and end all of psychotherapy in Ireland. I'm not saying you are saying that Julius, but it does keep coming up. Maybe its my issues with them coming up;)

Hi O,
don't they have a rake of psychoanalytic organisations under their umbrella? Jungian, Child, etc. I'm only saying this (i.e. post above) as my contacts there seem to think that their accreditation will be adopted by the Allied Health Professionals Cttee of the DOHC. (I'm not mad about them either, but that's another story!)

hotspur · 21-01-2010 2:28am

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Hi O,
don't they have a rake of psychoanalytic organisations under their umbrella? Jungian, Child, etc. I'm only saying this (i.e. post above) as my contacts there seem to think that their accreditation will be adopted by the Allied Health Professionals Cttee of the DOHC. (I'm not mad about them either, but that's another story!)

Yeah the ICP have 3 psychoanalytic organisations affiliated with them but Odysseus is an APPI man and Lacanians don't play well with 2 bit ego psychology neo-Freudians

Odysseus · 23-01-2010 3:13pm

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Hi O,
don't they have a rake of psychoanalytic organisations under their umbrella? Jungian, Child, etc. I'm only saying this (i.e. post above) as my contacts there seem to think that their accreditation will be adopted by the Allied Health Professionals Cttee of the DOHC. (I'm not mad about them either, but that's another story!)

Actually I think you maybe right, I will have to check up, I was thinking IACP when I made the first post. It really bugs me when people go on as they are the body for Psychotherapy.

Now we have Hotspur's post, the whole accreditation issue caused significant issues in APPI and we lost some long term members who where excellent analysts. I know we where involved in the whole DOHC thing, so maybe do come under that, but I have a feeling we don't. Really need to check again to be sure.

Odysseus · 23-01-2010 4:05pm

hotspur wrote: »

Yeah the ICP have 3 psychoanalytic organisations affiliated with them but Odysseus is an APPI man and Lacanians don't play well with 2 bit ego psychology neo-Freudians

That's the thing alright, as well as the Lacanian point that only the therapist can authorise themselve as a therapist. However, the issue then is what about the students. Most of the founder members of the APPI that where against us standing over therapists, where afaird of the organisation becoming more about psychotherapy than psychoanalysis. However, most of these guys where also psychologists and psychiatrists, so they had bodies to allow them to work within the HSE, where once Lacanian analysts became involved in the various psychoanalytic courses out there today, people with no previous experience and membership of a body started to train, there where then calls for the APPI to stand over their training.

You may know how much of a problem this caused for the APPI, but we are moving on with the fallout it caused.

mrmcgrath · 25-01-2010 5:25pm

krankykitty · 25-01-2010 10:56pm

mrmcgrath wrote: »

Hi,

As you have no direct experience in counselling, you will need to do a foundation course first.

While a foundation course may be useful in finding out whether you want to do the course or not, it is by no means a requirement for many courses...

Odysseus · 26-01-2010 7:31pm

krankykitty wrote: »

While a foundation course may be useful in finding out whether you want to do the course or not, it is by no means a requirement for many courses...

Your right of course, and if you have a degree there are some courses you can do at post-grad. I'm not knocking the foundation stuff, its great for people to test the water, or for example a lot of the staff in clinics where I work, have done such courses. They would not have any clinical interactions with clinents, but it has increased their ability to carry out their duties. Now there is always the danger of "a little knowledge is dangerous" but for the most part I think it beneficial.

However, for somebody wanting to train as a therapist I feel there is a money making element around a lot of these courses. We have the example of the above ad, but a friend of mine done a foundation course, he knew going into it that he did not want more. This chap is an ex-para so he is not easily put under pressure, however, he felt that his experience of the course was ruined by the lecturers constantly trying to get people to sign up for the next level. At the end of the day, every college is aiming to fil their courses; however, I have to admit its a side of the profession I see happening and it doesn't sit well with. To me its as bad as keeping a patient in therapy longer than they need, just to claim the fee.

krankykitty · 27-01-2010 10:38am

Does seem a bit money making all right, its not as if there's a shortage of people to fill the courses in fairness. There was waiting lists and huge academic lecture sizes in my degree course, so it seems like there's plenty of people wanting to actually do the degree. A few people in mine had done foundation courses elsewhere, but the majority did not and I'm not sure it adversely affected those of us who didn't in any way. In fact some of those that did, regretted that they'd spent the time and money on the foundation course as opposed to just going for the training course when they were sure of what they wanted to do.

Obviously is up to you OP but if I had an undergraduate degree I think I'd be more into looking at the postgrad options rather than going to do another degree, you might find the end result is more valuable to you long term...

Quinn206 · 27-01-2010 10:02pm

Hi , I was thinking of doing a general diploma/degree in counselling in the counselling centre in cork , are they a good course provider - I am doing a BA in Addiction but want a degree in counselling also - also is that the best way forward to be a counseller - do the degree in counselling once I finish my ba in addiction ?

Fembo · 27-01-2010 10:52pm

Hey guys! I don't doubt that the Higher Diploma in Psychology would be a great foundation for such a career, however I'm anxious that after spending so much on a course that I will still be virtually unemployable . I am 23 so finances are of course a concern, so I want to get the most out of whatever course I do!

Do you think I would be better off with somewhere like The Counselling Centre, where I will actually be qualified to do something when I graduate?

Odysseus · 28-01-2010 3:57pm

Quinn206 wrote: »

Hi , I was thinking of doing a general diploma/degree in counselling in the counselling centre in cork , are they a good course provider - I am doing a BA in Addiction but want a degree in counselling also - also is that the best way forward to be a counseller - do the degree in counselling once I finish my ba in addiction ?

Depending on where you want to work. With the degree depending on what clinical work you have done you may be entitled to membership of IAAAC or IACP. However, I suggest that you look at a further corurse. I know that people in working in the addiction area deal with so many other areas. I hated the term addiction counsellor, it negated so much of the work people where doing. So a post grad psychotherapy qualification with be a good thing.

Quinn206 · 30-01-2010 11:20pm

Odysseus wrote: »

Depending on where you want to work. With the degree depending on what clinical work you have done you may be entitled to membership of IAAAC or IACP. However, I suggest that you look at a further corurse. I know that people in working in the addiction area deal with so many other areas. I hated the term addiction counsellor, it negated so much of the work people where doing. So a post grad psychotherapy qualification with be a good thing.

Thanks Odysseus , your absolutely correct, I was thinking of doing that but was advised by a counseller lecturer that the post grad, whilst only two years would miss a lot of the process that I would gain by starting out in a new degree course in counselling and psychotherapy . I was looking into the cork training centre to do their counselling & psychotherapy course but dont know if they have a good setup ? - they are iacp accredited but would like more insight into them.

Odysseus · 31-01-2010 7:19pm

Quinn206 wrote: »

Thanks Odysseus , your absolutely correct, I was thinking of doing that but was advised by a counseller lecturer that the post grad, whilst only two years would miss a lot of the process that I would gain by starting out in a new degree course in counselling and psychotherapy . I was looking into the cork training centre to do their counselling & psychotherapy course but dont know if they have a good setup ? - they are iacp accredited but would like more insight into them.

Am I correct in this, you have a BA in Addiction Studies, you where thinking of getting a post-grad qual in some form of psychotherapy, and you where advised to go back to under-grad level? If that is incorrect, please tell me I'm wrong!!

There is nothing wrong with have two BA's, but here they would be in a cognate discipline; so I can't really see the point. However, it's your call and if you feel it will benefit you, then go for it. I was looking at doing another Masters in psychoanalysis this year. I am not going ahead with it now, but I have a very specific reason why I was doing that rather than going for a PhD which would be the next step.

Quinn206 · 31-01-2010 10:57pm

Odysseus wrote: »

Am I correct in this, you have a BA in Addiction Studies, you where thinking of getting a post-grad qual in some form of psychotherapy, and you where advised to go back to under-grad level? If that is incorrect, please tell me I'm wrong!!

There is nothing wrong with have two BA's, but here they would be in a cognate discipline; so I can't really see the point. However, it's your call and if you feel it will benefit you, then go for it. I was looking at doing another Masters in psychoanalysis this year. I am not going ahead with it now, but I have a very specific reason why I was doing that rather than going for a PhD which would be the next step.

- I am nearly finished my BA in addiction , but would like to practice general counselling specialising in addiction - the BA in addiction is very much theory based and I was told the post grad in psychotherapy would be much the same - very little practice or groupwork , nearly all acedemic work - It was hinted that I would miss alot of the process and practical learning skills needed for becoming a general counsellor. also the thoughts of doing another two years mainly academics, would leave me very uncomfortable if I were to set up practice when finished ? - I know i would like the skills and tips for becoming a counsellor and the practice hours would make me more comfortable - any post grad would be 2 years but a degrees in practical counselling skills is 3 ? - am I totally mad

Odysseus · 31-01-2010 11:23pm

Quinn206 wrote: »

- I am nearly finished my BA in addiction , but would like to practice general counselling specialising in addiction - the BA in addiction is very much theory based and I was told the post grad in psychotherapy would be much the same - very little practice or groupwork , nearly all acedemic work - It was hinted that I would miss alot of the process and practical learning skills needed for becoming a general counsellor. also the thoughts of doing another two years mainly academics, would leave me very uncomfortable if I were to set up practice when finished ? - I know i would like the skills and tips for becoming a counsellor and the practice hours would make me more comfortable - any post grad would be 2 years but a degrees in practical counselling skills is 3 ? - am I totally mad

Another option would be this. Your BA when you get it will fullfil the entry requirements for the IAAAC. You study at a post-grad level, plently of H Dips and Masters in psychotherapy in Dublin if you are prepared to travel. You then start to see private clients under supervision, and you can work on your clinical hours whilst training. You might find it hard to get fee paying clientsm but lots of places will facilitate people on a voluntary basis.

Are you interested in any particular modality of counselling or psychotherapy?

Quinn206 · 02-02-2010 10:03pm

Odysseus wrote: »

Another option would be this. Your BA when you get it will fullfil the entry requirements for the IAAAC. You study at a post-grad level, plently of H Dips and Masters in psychotherapy in Dublin if you are prepared to travel. You then start to see private clients under supervision, and you can work on your clinical hours whilst training. You might find it hard to get fee paying clientsm but lots of places will facilitate people on a voluntary basis.

Are you interested in any particular modality of counselling or psychotherapy?

I like CBT but also the humanistic approach but with more research I will get a better idea of which one is best for me - I am just trying to get college finished so I can get hired / practice and gain experience, the addiction is really interesting but mabe not for me as a full time profession - I think I did the courses the wrong way around - and as money is at a premium , I want the next step to be the right one !! - so many courses - all offering the same, - I checked out post grad courses in cork and limerick and only found UCC & UL - Is their any more down their /

portia12 · 12-03-2010 11:53am

Hi,

I am very confused and would appreciate some advice. I am thinking of applying to do the masters with NCII in counselling and psychotherapy but I have read alot of negative things about the course on these boards. I have a Bsc in applied psychology and sociology which would allow me to join the BPS. If I complete this masters am I going to be as employable as students who enter through other routes? I asked them (ncii) about accreditation with other bodies and they say that it is not necessary as they are an accrediting body in their own right. I am so confused as obvioulsy I dont want to waste money on a course that will not make me employable.

Any opinions would be appreciated

krankykitty · 12-03-2010 1:36pm

portia12 wrote: »

Hi,

I am very confused and would appreciate some advice. I am thinking of applying to do the masters with NCII in counselling and psychotherapy but I have read alot of negative things about the course on these boards. I have a Bsc in applied psychology and sociology which would allow me to join the BPS. If I complete this masters am I going to be as employable as students who enter through other routes? I asked them (ncii) about accreditation with other bodies and they say that it is not necessary as they are an accrediting body in their own right. I am so confused as obvioulsy I dont want to waste money on a course that will not make me employable.

Any opinions would be appreciated

I think the fact that they accredit their own courses speaks volumes, this doesn't strike me as best practice. They are obviously going to tell you it is not necessary to get you to do the course, so if in doubt check with the other bodies to see what they think. You really don't want to waste your time and money if there's a different course that does actually meet your needs out there.

If your undergrad course is accredited by the BPS, could you apply for a masters in counselling psychology?

Psychotherapy/Counselling- Starting out, help!

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