ps3 and small claims court

Messi19

hellboy99 wrote: »

OP, if you do get somewhere with this and Sony take the console from you for repair, be sure to blow out any dust from the console, otherwise they will say it broke due to overheating and you not looking after it

I already tried it in the hope it might fix it but i never move it and its always well kept:)

Kintarō Hattori

Retr0gamer, I work for a retailer. We've taken legal advice on this and you get one year guarantee with the goods you buy unless stated otherwise. One year from the retailer is the norm.

hellboy99

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Retr0gamer, I work for a retailer. We've taken legal advice on this and you get one year guarantee with the goods you buy unless stated otherwise. On year from the retailer is the norm.

That is true, but under the sales of goods act within the EU you can have a warranty on electrical goods, ie. PC, game consoles, TVs... upto 3 - 6 years. This is the main reason why Microsoft give a 3 year OEM warranty on the Xbox 360.

Retr0gamer

I'm not so sure though. Also I'm sure about where the 6 year thing is coming from I thought it was 2 years with the EU but in Ireland and the UK it's 3 years. The wording is a bit strange as well. It seems to have to be a fault with the product when you purchased it and you have 3 years to bring it up. If the laser breaks or the system RROD's after a year or so it could be argued that the problem wasn't with the machine when it was bought. However you can also argue that the machine was faulty when you bought it and the fault only presented itself after an amount of time. The other thing is the goods being suitable for their intended purpose and a console with a 10 year life cycle up and dying before 3 years is up can be argued wasn't fit for it's intended purpose.

Retailers will fight against this because after the manufactures warranty is up it's up to the retailers to honour the sales of good act. If some one brought this to the small claims court and won it would open the flood gates for similar complaints about RROD and YLOD since they can refer back to this case that won. People have won these cases before. Sony were brought to court by the australian government over the disc read error and faulty lasers in the PS2 (i was a victim twice but had a modded console so was screwed) and Sony lost and had to pay compensation and extend the warranty on all PS2's in the region.

Messi19

Post #6 is also interesting
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055772850

wcarey1975

Good luck OP, hope it will helps others in the least. The fact that Sony redesigned the original hardware of the Blu-ray lasers from a single dual reading LED to a side by side LED for DVD and BLU-RAY reading head may also be worth mentioning. I bought my original 40GB Single LED head PS3 in Jan 08 and it failed for BROD after 13 months the retailer didnt want to know anything so I got on to SONY and they replaced this through the retailer with a new 40GB which had a DUAL LED head .and hopefully will go for a little longer. My nephew bought his PS3 a week earlier than me from the same shop and his failed 2 months after me. I took me over 2 weeks to get the same retailer to replace it and in the end after a lot of running around I managed to get someone in the shop to authorize a replacement although this was probably to to get rid of me. As I said good luck with the case and hope it turns out well for you. Please keep us updated with your progress

thebman

Here is a link to Sony saying the PS3's reduced lifespan is expected to be 8-10 years as a product.

Realistically you should expect your PS3 to at least be able to last as long as the products life on the market IMO.

Its kind of unrealistic to say we are making a console and we want to make games for 10 years for it so you'll have to buy two as the console is definitely going to break withing 5 years. I think people wouldn't buy it if Sony came out with a statement like that.

http://www.neoseeker.com/news/9976-sony-reduces-ps3-lifespan-estimate/

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=61935

I think given Sony themselves state the consoles lifespan is 8-10 years that you'd have a good chance in court of getting a replacement if a retailer refused you based on Sony's estimated life cycle for the console. If Sony want me to buy another PS3 every few years then I might as well build a Pc and upgrade it

Hell my Gamecube still works like it did on day one.

sarumite

padraig61091 wrote: »

u are joking u are complaing that a console bought 3 years ago i could understand if u bought it a year ago but really get over youreself and repair the ps3 or sell it as faulty or come down to galway so i can hit u

MODERATOR NOTE: Don't threaten users or you'll get banned. Also, read full threads. This post has been reported numerous times since the issue was dealt with. Scroll down a few posts to see this.

Not trying to do any back door modding....but its not that difficult to spell "you" when there is a keyboard. You could also try some punctuation as it would make reading your rant a little easier.

(I apologise if this is off topic, but the collapse of the English language really grinds my gears.)

whiterebel

It might be worthwhile updating this poll now, as the amount of failures now seems to be increasing drastically.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055442721&highlight=death

Also, just to clarify a few things. There is an EU directive which states 2 year warranty, but this was never brought in to Ireland, as we are supposed to have better protection under the Sale of Goods Act. The 6 years in this however, as Retro says is confusing to say the least. After reading and re-reading and getting advice, it seems to me that a product must have an inherent design flaw when purchased, i.e. BRoD, RRoD etc. It is NOT an out and out 6 year warranty. For example, if the Bluetooth module in a 60GB broke down, it would be tough luck, as there isn't a big number of the PS3 with this problem. If however, the likes of the poll above show an indicator that there is a major problem with the Drives in early PS3s, a Judge couldn't fail to be impressed, as it shows an inherent problem that is there since purchase.
Yes it is tough on the retailer, but that's the chance they take. Its up to them to find a way to punish Sony for saddling them with defective machines. Game/Gamestop/HMV are surely big enough to sort out this sort of problem with Sony?

Anyway, when my 60GB failed 16 months ago (14 months old) , I was going in to bat with Sony, ready to demand my rights (I hadn't chased up Sale of Goods etc, etc) yet they took my details, sent me an email and had it replaced within a week, free of charge, no resistance at all.

The arguments I had ready for Sony/Small claims court were:

1) Using the numbers in the poll above it would seem that there was near 30% failure rate - not scientific, but hey!, I don't have the money to conduct surveys.....
2)Why do Sony have a logistics provider set up in Dublin to take in faulty PS3s and replace with refurbs? Think about it, companies may have repair centers, distribution centres etc, but a 3rd party logistics company? I don't remember any other company doing it.
3)Why repair other people's machines that were 3/4 months out of warranty? Go back through Boards.ie and see how many they were quietly replacing.
4) Sale of Goods and supply of Services Act.

By the way, the 2 year warranty on all products bought in the EU mustn't have kicked in yet - I'm buying an LG NAS Drive enclosure, and they only give a 1 year warranty

Varik

just to ask I haven't don junior cert business in years but isn't there a maximum claim for the small claims court.

whiterebel

Varik wrote: »

just to ask I haven't don junior cert business in years but isn't there a maximum claim for the small claims court.

€2000 max, so unless you've got a well modded PS3......innit:D

sarumite

One of the problems as I see it with any warranty based on a time period is usage. If someone uses their PS3 console several hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year and then on summer or xmas holidays that usage increases even further, then they should expect their PS3 to fail sooner than the person who maybe uses it for a few hours every sunday.

whiterebel

sarumite wrote: »

One of the problems as I see it with any warranty based on a time period is usage. If someone uses their PS3 console several hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year and then on summer or xmas holidays that usage increases even further, then they should expect their PS3 to fail sooner than the person who maybe uses it for a few hours every sunday.

Then companies should stress test their products 24/7/365 for as long as it needs.

chillywilly

this place added me on facebook, it might be worth giving them a call and see if they can get it fixed for a fair price:

http://www.consolerepaircentre.ie/playstation.html

im not affiliated with this group!

sarumite

whiterebel wrote: »

Then companies should stress test their products 24/7/365 for as long as it needs.

You really want to pay for a product that can cope with that?....how much would a car cost if it were expected to last a travelling salesman the same amount of years as a person who uses it for the 10 minute journey to work and back?

I know that rock band guitars are stress tested to a number of clicks (I think its like 10,000 or something). Obviously its impossible to know when you hit 10,000 clicks, however that stress testing seems more common sense than simply an amount of time, regardless of use.

whiterebel

sarumite wrote: »

You really want to pay for a product that can cope with that?....how much would a car cost if it were expected to last a travelling salesman the same amount of years as a person who uses it for the 10 minute journey to work and back?

I know that rock band guitars are stress tested to a number of clicks (I think its like 10,000 or something). Obviously its impossible to know when you hit 10,000 clicks, however that stress testing seems more common sense than simply an amount of time, regardless of use.

Cars are tested for the longer term, not the shorter. Toyota were often used as the yardstick because of the longevity of their cars (400,000+ miles on their diesel corollas and carinas) because of their design, attention to detail and build quality. Did they cost twice as much as cars that were only good for 200,000 miles?Nope in a lot of cases they were cheaper. Computers now are built to be left on 24/7 and used as servers, so I can't see why consoles could be viewed so differently.

The stress test on the guitar would be done by a machine and you would find that 10,000 would be AT LEAST the lifetime under normal conditions.(10,000 seems pretty low actually)

sarumite

whiterebel wrote: »

Cars are tested for the longer term, not the shorter. Toyota were often used as the yardstick because of the longevity of their cars (400,000+ miles on their diesel corollas and carinas) because of their design, attention to detail and build quality. Did they cost twice as much as cars that were only good for 200,000 miles?Nope in a lot of cases they were cheaper. Computers now are built to be left on 24/7 and used as servers, so I can't see why consoles could be viewed so differently.

The stress test on the guitar would be done by a machine and you would find that 10,000 would be AT LEAST the lifetime under normal conditions.(10,000 seems pretty low actually)

If a person buys a car and it breaksdown after say 70,000 miles, they pay for their own repairs and by 120,000 to 150,000 mils if a car breaks down it is usually junked. The onus is not on Toyota or the dealership to pay for the repair of your car after 120,000 miles of service.

Computers used as servers are different to consoles, they don't need the graphic or sonic capabilities of a console, furthermore the optical drive is rarely used.

At least the lifetime is the point of it....you are covered for at least the lifetime of a product under normal conditions. Beyond the minimal lifetime, you will be expected to pay....thats why cars companies often do 3 years or 50,000 miles (that way they cover both time and usage.) so that you know thats the minimum amount of time you get with your car without having to pay for repairs.

alastair

The point is that the consoles should have a reasonable life expectancy. If they don't, then the consumer has every right to hold the manufacturer/retailer to account. Clearly there's either an issue of quality control or built-in obsolescence at play with some consoles, as the failure rates are noticably higher than they should be. My PS3 lasted all of ten months before going down with a bad dose of the YLOD. I've an original xbox still going strong after five years or so. If the PS3 died anywhere short of three abuse-free years, I'd feel pretty justified in seeking compensation - it's not like it contains components that the buyer understands need continual maintainance or replacement - as in a car - it's just supposed to keep working.

faceman

thebman wrote: »

Here is a link to Sony saying the PS3's reduced lifespan is expected to be 8-10 years as a product.

Realistically you should expect your PS3 to at least be able to last as long as the products life on the market IMO.

Exactly. This is where Irish Consumer law and the 6 year thingie comes in. I remember hearing an interview with a bloke from Consumer Affairs on the radio some time ago and he went through the 6 year thing in detail. If a product life cycle is 10 years and it breakdowns after a few years, then the consumer shouldnt have to bare the cost to replace/fix.

skapegoat

wcarey1975 wrote: »

Good luck OP, hope it will helps others in the least. The fact that Sony redesigned the original hardware of the Blu-ray lasers from a single dual reading LED to a side by side LED for DVD and BLU-RAY reading head may also be worth mentioning. I bought my original 40GB Single LED head PS3 in Jan 08 and it failed for BROD after 13 months the retailer didnt want to know anything so I got on to SONY and they replaced this through the retailer with a new 40GB which had a DUAL LED head .and hopefully will go for a little longer. My nephew bought his PS3 a week earlier than me from the same shop and his failed 2 months after me. I took me over 2 weeks to get the same retailer to replace it and in the end after a lot of running around I managed to get someone in the shop to authorize a replacement although this was probably to to get rid of me. As I said good luck with the case and hope it turns out well for you. Please keep us updated with your progress

How does one find out if they have a dual or side by side led model?
My first playstation stoped reading discs about two weeks after I bought it.
But my replacement is going strong.
OP I wish you the best in getting a replacement, you could buy three playstation slims for what you paid on release day!!!
So it's definitly worth fighting for!

whiterebel

sarumite wrote: »

If a person buys a car and it breaksdown after say 70,000 miles, they pay for their own repairs and by 120,000 to 150,000 mils if a car breaks down it is usually junked. The onus is not on Toyota or the dealership to pay for the repair of your car after 120,000 miles of service.

At least the lifetime is the point of it....you are covered for at least the lifetime of a product under normal conditions. Beyond the minimal lifetime, you will be expected to pay....thats why cars companies often do 3 years or 50,000 miles (that way they cover both time and usage.) so that you know thats the minimum amount of time you get with your car without having to pay for repairs.

You are aware that you went from how long a product should last to how long you should expect under warranty? I bought a new car last year with the (Irish) industry standard 2 year warranty. If something major goes after 2, 3 or 4 years, do you think I give a flying s**t about their warranty? Fix it, or court. My point about Toyota was the amount of effort they put in building quality into their cars, and that you can get much longer without paying major repair bills as a result, something which Sony should emulate. Microsoft were warned by their mates in Intel and elsewhere not to build the XBox themselves as it was much more difficult than what they could possibly expect. Sony should have watched and learned from that fiasco, but they didn't and let MS steal a march and gain respect with the 3 year warranty which will cost them $1Bn. Sony should have just built it right from the beginning.

"You really want to pay for a product that can cope with that?....how much would a car cost if it were expected to last a travelling salesman the same amount of years as a person who uses it for the 10 minute journey to work and back?"

you are covered for at least the lifetime of a product under normal conditions. You have lost me here. What do you mean by lifetime? I've a feeling its the complete opposite to what i would think it is.

macpac26

Good luck to the OP in getting it resolved i hope it goes in your favour

Just want to point something out, please feel free to correct me.

When Sony say the PS3 has a '10 year life cycle' they are referring to how long they will support the console NOT how long your PS3 is supposed to last. The PS2s life cycle was also 10 years i believe.

sarumite

whiterebel wrote: »

You are aware that you went from how long a product should last to how long you should expect under warranty?

Nope...not even close. I argued that expecting a product to last x number of years without any regard for usage is not being realistic. Furthermore it is not what you should expect...but merely want you will get from a warranty. You get the minimal coverage. The rock band guitar is covered for the first 10,000 clicks, Harmonix do not suggest that the guitar will only last 10,000 but that they are not responsible for it beyond 10,000 clicks.

If you are going to poorly paraphrase what I said, then I will bow out at this point.

L'prof

sarumite wrote: »

(I apologise if this is off topic, but the collapse of the English language really grinds my gears.)

This may come as a shock to you but, I have no love for the English language but, text speak really grinds my gears!

sarumite

whiterebel wrote: »

you are covered for at least the lifetime of a product under normal conditions. You have lost me here. What do you mean by lifetime? I've a feeling its the complete opposite to what i would think it is.

this was a typo...should read minimal lifetime.

sarumite

jasonorr wrote: »

This may come as a shock to you but, I have no love for the English language but, text speak really grinds my gears!

To be honest, I think this is pretty much my sentiment really.

whiterebel

sarumite wrote: »

this was a typo...should read minimal lifetime.

And minimal lifetime is what exactly?

Flecktarn

All I can say is fair play to the OP! He's actually bothering to do something about it.

Oh and on the warranty issue, when my PS3 broke and I was on about the EU law to the manager of the retailer I bought it from, he basically said that Ireland haven't put law into action yet or something along those lines whereas the other member states have, meaning you basically have to bring the Irish goverment to court over the whole thing :rolleyes:

I'm 100% sure he was just fobbing me off looking for my €170 but I don't know :rolleyes:

Anyways I'll be keeping an eye on this thread to see what happens.

ongarite

Flecktarn wrote: »

All I can say is fair play to the OP! He's actually bothering to do something about it.

Oh and on the warranty issue, when my PS3 broke and I was on about the EU law to the manager of the retailer I bought it from, he basically said that Ireland haven't put law into action yet or something along those lines whereas the other member states have, meaning you basically have to bring the Irish goverment to court over the whole thing :rolleyes:

I'm 100% sure he was just fobbing me off looking for my €170 but I don't know :rolleyes:

Anyways I'll be keeping an eye on this thread to see what happens.

The retailer you were talking to is exactly correct.
Ireland has never enacted the EU 2-year guarantee directive, you still have the 1yr manufacturers guarantee.

If will be up to you in the Small Claims Court or higher to prove under the Sale of Goods Act that the PS3 is an inherently faulty device and that you should get a replacement free of charge outside your 1yr manufacturers guarantee.

alastair

ongarite wrote: »

The retailer you were talking to is exactly correct.
Ireland has never enacted the EU 2-year guarantee directive, you still have the 1yr manufacturers guarantee.

Worth checking the various linked legislation:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62903423&postcount=19

Seems that the two year directive does indeed apply here.