WPP1 / WPP2

sarahzxe

can i just point out ive applied for a few of these placements havin a got a good degree and for looking experience i havent heard anything back from the employers at all and its been over a week! I rang the fas helpline and they said a few of the jobs i applied for many people applied before me had not got them bcos they werent 'suitable' i thought cos its volunteer work they wouldnt be so fussy!!

BTW alot of these placememts are up on the fas website for months, seriously wats goin on??

SeaFields

sarahzxe wrote: »

BTW alot of these placements are up on the fas website for months, seriously wats goin on??

I believe the answer to this, and so many other questions, firmly lie at the door of Mary Coughlan aka "calamity coughlan". Only today she is defending paying Rody Malloy an extra €900k just to get rid of him. How many fcuking people would that get into a work experience scheme for the next 9 months?

I wrote to my local minister explaining the necessity of getting us graduates into work before we, as a country, lose our investment in people through free college fees. I got a reply asking to see my CV, which i sent, and never heard anything back.

As many posters here have pointed out this whole scheme cries out of slave labour. Guess this is where "new Ireland" is at. :mad:

unJustMary

I spotted a great one today - bolding mine:

JB532785 -Personal Assistant / Project Manager (WPP1)

Area of Activity: Galway office, providing experience in secretarial project management, client interface, social and electronic marketing. Elements of Experience offered: administration, IT, data entry, document formatting, telephone skills, project/time client event management; social and electronic marketing, CRM, marketing, PR.
Person Specification: experienced Senior Personal Assistant, advanced Microsoft suite skills, audio/copy typing <65WPM, team player able to work on own and can prioritise.

Educational quals: Level 7 - Graduate

So they're looking for someone with all the experience .. and a degree ... and ... to work for nothing, on a job that they'll get no new experience in!

Grr.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Raekwon wrote: »

Why would a company, any company, not just take graduates on for a minimum wage?

To increase revenue. Not sure what planet you people are living on, but we are talking about businesses here whos sole purpose is to make a profit, they will do that however they can.

mood

I think employers who avail of this scheme should have to prove they can't afford to pay someone to do the job. Maybe this is the case but I've heard nothing to suggest this.

Raekwon

Thomas Blue Babe wrote: »

To increase revenue. Not sure what planet you people are living on, but we are talking about businesses here whos sole purpose is to make a profit, they will do that however they can.

You're missing the point by a county mile here! This scheme is supposedly for graduates to gain experience........full stop. But now some companies are jumping on the bandwagon and are looking for experienced staff that they don't have to pay. It is total exploitation and should not be encouraged, condoned or tolerated regardless of the planet we're living on :rolleyes:

clarelad

Raekwon wrote: »

You're missing the point by a county mile here! This scheme is supposedly for graduates to gain experience........full stop. But now some companies are jumping on the bandwagon and are looking for experienced staff that they don't have to pay. It is total exploitation and should not be encouraged, condoned or tolerated regardless of the planet we're living on :rolleyes:

Exactly...

jimoc

Has anyone actually rang one of these companies and asked them why they are doing it through the WPP instead of actually paying the employee?
Its balatantly obvious in most cases that they have no intention of actually giving the person a full time job or work experience so they are just gaming the system.

Maybe a reporter should do a story on it and ring the companies up in-cognito.

sarahzxe

I have to agree theres defo sometin fishy goin on

donkey balls

Raekwon wrote: »

You're missing the point by a county mile here! This scheme is supposedly for graduates to gain experience........full stop. But now some companies are jumping on the bandwagon and are looking for experienced staff that they don't have to pay. It is total exploitation and should not be encouraged, condoned or tolerated regardless of the planet we're living on :rolleyes:

FAS are well aware of these companies offering the wpp courses i have reported three companies and there adverts were removed from the FAS website.
i also spoke to an officer in the local office about these courses and they said that the FAS mgmt had been informed,(wether they act on it is another thing) the bottom line is these companies are looking for cheap skilled labour.

sarahzxe

well fair play to ya!

Raekwon

donkey balls wrote: »

FAS are well aware of these companies offering the wpp courses i have reported three companies and there adverts were removed from the FAS website.
i also spoke to an officer in the local office about these courses and they said that the FAS mgmt had been informed,(wether they act on it is another thing) the bottom line is these companies are looking for cheap skilled labour.

Well done! I wrote a letter to a few local TD's to raise this issue with FAS and hopefully make this scheme much stricter and actually help graduates gain experience (which this was scheme was actually intended for) and not to exploit the 436,936 and rising unemployed people in this country (which is a shocking figure I might add!)

mood

donkey balls wrote: »

FAS are well aware of these companies offering the wpp courses i have reported three companies and there adverts were removed from the FAS website.
i also spoke to an officer in the local office about these courses and they said that the FAS mgmt had been informed,(wether they act on it is another thing) the bottom line is these companies are looking for cheap skilled labour.

Good idea to report it. I might do the same as almost all I have see expect an experienced person and seem to provide not training etc.

sarahzxe

Raekwon wrote: »

Well done! I wrote a letter to a few local TD's to raise this issue with FAS and hopefully make this scheme much stricter and actually help graduates gain experience (which this was scheme was actually intended for) and not to exploit the 436,936 and rising unemployed people in this country (which is a shocking figure I might add!)

Good work! ive applyed for placements on this scheme 2 help me get work exp being unemployed 4 6 month now that wont look good on my cv. but this scheme clearly isnt working. does anybody know somebody thats actually doing the placement?

donkey balls

mood wrote: »

Good idea to report it. I might do the same as almost all I have see expect an experienced person and seem to provide not training etc.

i have only reported the ones that are advertised in the logistics/transport section so i dont know how many are being advertised throughout the whole website,im sure the more people that complain to the local FAS office the better.

and as the officer said to me these places are for graduates(not experienced people working in the field)

mood

There are loads in my area.

I'm still a little confused about WPP1 and WPP2. What is the difference?

donkey balls

mood wrote: »

There are loads in my area.

I'm still a little confused about WPP1 and WPP2. What is the difference?

try this link info on the programs here


http://www.fas.ie/en/Job+Seeker/WPP/default.htm

mood

Just looked at the FAS website again. Hardly any jobs just WPPs. I think the more we report the companies abusing the system the more actual jobs there will be. It's quite shocking really.

I've just seem 1 WPP2. The position is 'Catering Assistant'. You would learn how to make a Latte! How could that be use full to and college or university graduate looking for a job in their chosen area?

28064212

mood wrote: »

I've just seem 1 WPP2. The position is 'Catering Assistant'. You would learn how to make a Latte! How could that be use full to and college or university graduate looking for a job in their chosen area?

From the page you were linked to in the last post:

• Work Placement Programme 2 (WPP2): All other persons who have not attained a full award at level 7 or above on the National Framework of Qualifications.

There's thousands of unqualified unemployed people out there, this could be an opportunity to change career direction, or just pick up a few skills

mood

I get your point but this is hardly offering anyone decent experience that will really stand to then. It however is keeping people on the dole when they could easily pay someone which would reduce the unemployment rate.

28064212

mood wrote: »

I get your point but this is hardly offering anyone decent experience that will really stand to then.

Don't agree with that at all. There's a huge difference between having nothing on your CV and having 6/9 months experience. You're about a hundred times more likely to get a permanent job when you come out the far side. Not to mention the fact that if you work hard, there's every possibility that the company could offer you a permanent position at the end of the placement. Any experience is better than none. It may not be bio-engineering, but 6/9 months in a coffee shop gives you a much better shot at getting another job in a coffee shop afterwards

mood wrote: »

It however is keeping people on the dole when they could easily pay someone which would reduce the unemployment rate.

I've bolded the problem with that statement. They may not be able to afford to pay someone. There's a huge difference between paying someone (even at minimum wage) €16,000 a year and... eh... nothing (as far as I know, companies don't contribute anything for a WPP participant, could be wrong on that though). Also, even if they could afford it, it's a huge chance to take on a fresh graduate with no experience and, more pertinently, no references. The WPP is more like a 6/9 month interview where they can assess an employee without having to take on the risks associated with giving someone a permanent position.

I do agree that some companies are taking the proverbial. Any company demanding more than 6 months experience for a position should be removed from the scheme.

BostonB

I think the flaw is that is you only take people with experience, so they are already qualified to a job, then they aren't getting much new experience in the same way someone with no experience would. That said is this meant to be limited to people with no experience exclusively?

I don't see it in the blurb, but I thought it was meant to help out companies as well as people.

mood

BostonB wrote: »

I think the flaw is that is you only take people with experience, so they are already qualified to a job, then they aren't getting much new experience in the same way someone with no experience would. That said is this meant to be limited to people with no experience exclusively?

I don't see it in the blurb, but I thought it was meant to help out companies as well as people.

As far as I'm aware companies don't have to prove they can't pay someone but I could be wrong. If they can't afford the extra wages fair enough as it would help a struggling company.

28064212

That would be impossible to check. Even if you could prove that a company could afford to pay someone, the company may not deem it worth spending that money on a new employee. And even if they do decide they need a new employee, they are much more likely to spend the extra money to get someone with experience, rather than gamble on a new graduate. It's an employer's market, there are plenty of unemployed people out there with lots of experience who are willing to work for not much more than a graduate

sarahzxe

I am absolutely shocked i got just a letter of regret saying i wouldnt be offered an interview. I emailed the company reminding them it was a work experience salary and why wasnt i given a least an interview now waiting for a reply..cant believe this wat chance have i of getting a real job if i cant even get a voluteer job!!:mad:

clarelad

sarahzxe wrote: »

I am absolutely shocked i got just a letter of regret saying i wouldnt be offered an interview. I emailed the company reminding them it was a work experience salary and why wasnt i given a least an interview now waiting for a reply..cant believe this wat chance have i of getting a real job if i cant even get a voluteer job!!:mad:

Thats a joke...sorry to hear sarah

miec

I've bolded the problem with that statement. They may not be able to afford to pay someone. There's a huge difference between paying someone (even at minimum wage) €16,000 a year and... eh... nothing

So the tax payer should fund this company who cannot afford basic operating costs. The problem with these schemes as can be seen is that they are open to massive abuse. If someone is given work experience that is paid for by the government through the FAS agency they may come of the dole queue but they are still receiving government support and the person working does not contribute to the economy at all and neither does the company. Apart from gaining experience and a company gaining government funded labour I see no incentive to this scheme at a time when the national debt is escalating ever more.

28064212

miec wrote: »

So the tax payer should fund this company who cannot afford basic operating costs. The problem with these schemes as can be seen is that they are open to massive abuse. If someone is given work experience that is paid for by the government through the FAS agency they may come of the dole queue but they are still receiving government support and the person working does not contribute to the economy at all and neither does the company. Apart from gaining experience and a company gaining government funded labour I see no incentive to this scheme at a time when the national debt is escalating ever more.

"...the person working does not contribute to the economy at all and neither does the company" - Umm... what? What exactly are you defining as contributing to the economy? Companies provide goods and services, they need workers to do so. The worker may not be paying tax, but the company certainly is, and the worker is contributing to the company's profitability. Also, you seem to be ignoring the fact that the benefit of the scheme is that, in the future, the worker will find it easier to get a 'real job' because they now have experience.

And what do you mean "apart from gaining experience"? You can't ignore the single biggest facet of it and then say the program's not worth anything. Apart from the plane crashes, September 11th was actually quite a nice day.

What does the national debt have to do with anything? You do realise that the government would be paying the worker dole anyway? The options aren't either be on the scheme or get a full time job, the options are be on the scheme or be completely unemployed.

unJustMary

donkey balls wrote: »

and as the officer said to me these places are for graduates(not experienced people working in the field)

Don't FAS have to approve these things before they get listed on their website? Or can so-called "employers" just load any BS they want?

unJustMary

28064212 wrote: »

even if they could afford it, it's a huge chance to take on a fresh graduate with no experience and, more pertinently, no references. The WPP is more like a 6/9 month interview where they can assess an employee without having to take on the risks associated with giving someone a permanent position.

Your argument doesn't hold: Your first 12 months in any job in this country is a permanent job interview: you have no rights, and can be dispensed with at a moment's notice, for no reason at all. So there is very little risk associated with hiring.

Even someone with no experience will have character references from teachers, sports coaches, etc.

I don't have any references right now, but do remember that there's strong international evidence that employment schemes that the employer doesn't pay anything for are a huge risk: the government is either subsidising a firm, or paying for the workers to be told to play cards etc because the employer cannot pay for materials/tools etc for them to use to do work.