WPP1 / WPP2

kkelly77

Hello all,

I see a lot of jobs advertised on FAS on the Work Placement Programme (WPP).

Has anyone been offered a job under this scheme? Are you still paid whatever you were receiving on the social welfare while working in that particular area?

K

majiktripp

I've been looking at this too, seem's you work your regular 40 hour week for whatever employer you get and are still entitled to the dole that you're on.
I haven't been offered a job under this scheme myself but will call into the local office tomorrow and see whats available.

miec

Hi Op

Yes I enquired about it, you have to be registered with fas and be six months unemployed. You keep your dole payment and gain the required work experience.

eclectichoney

miec wrote: »

Hi Op

Yes I enquired about it, you have to be registered with fas and be six months unemployed. You keep your dole payment and gain the required work experience.

This has changed since Dec 1st, you no longer need to be registered / signing on for six months - at least for the graduate schemes at any rate.

ContyHooks

Wouldn't people lose money doing this, like travel and other work related expenses? Are people actually paying to work? Or am I missing something here!

Saggitarius

Hi lads,

Im very interested in. Where can I get more -written- information about.

eclectichoney

ContyHooks wrote: »

Wouldn't people lose money doing this, like travel and other work related expenses? Are people actually paying to work? Or am I missing something here!

yes but the benefits in terms of experience / keeping your skills fresh would likely outweigh the cost in many cases.

esween

I think the work placement programme is a good idea but a person would only be effectively earning the 196 euro (paid by the social welfare) for a full weeks work.... ie 35-40 hours a week... while i agree that any kind of work looks better on your CV this small amount of money has made the uptake of this programme very slow...

the outright winner in this programme is the employer as they get staff (whether this is a graduate or experienced worker) for up to nine months for nothing!!!!

in my view for this programme to work the employer should have to pay some salary or 'expenses' so that the person is at least earning the minimum wage!!!!

otherwise someone on this scheme would feel very undervalued and used..
would like to hear from someone currently on this scheme for their opinion..

eth0_

It's absolute slave labour. I live in Meath and there are no WPP jobs in my area here, so i'd have to apply for ones in Dublin. Then i'd be out 200 euro or more per month on transport, so i'd have less than 600 euro to live on for the month? No thanks!

Virtually all the I.T. jobs on the Fas website are WPP jobs. It must be fantastic for employers to get staff for free...

BostonB

eth0_ wrote: »

...
Virtually all the I.T. jobs on the Fas website are WPP jobs. It must be fantastic for employers to get staff for free...

I noticed that too. Its replaced all the starter rung on the ladder, and lower paid jobs almost overnight.

katkin

Went on the FAS website about ten days ago and nearly every listing was a WPP. However went on it 2 days ago and none, just the usual CE schemes and handful of other jobs so I reckon they moved them to another section of the site. I think its great that graduates can gain experience etc but this scheme is really open to exploitation by employers looking for people to work for nothing.

Rainbow_brite

I have also noticed that there are many IT jobs on this WW1 scheme. I am living in the South East and have been offered a place in Dublin but weighing up the cost of rent and bills etc. I would end up out of pocket. I contacted companies in my local area to see if any of them would be interested in participating in the scheme and none of them were bothered!

BostonB

Being out of pocket to get experience, isn't that unusual.

ContyHooks

BostonB wrote: »

Being out of pocket to get experience, isn't that unusual.

I know but these aren't positions which are ultimately gonna lead to a highly lucrative position after the internship. This isn't "pursuit of happiness".

Even in transition year for my 2 weeks work placement in a printing company I was paid a small amount!

Raskolnikov

It's one thing advertising these sort of jobs to graduates, but it's quite another thing to expect a person with 3 years of software development experience to essentially work for nothing :eek:

It's feckin' obscene!

http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=18506_7&REQUEST=WWW_JS_VAC_PREVIOUS_NEXT&ROW=NEXT!3

BostonB

The idea is that its easier to get a job when your in one. If you can be fussy about it, then you don't need it.

Its far from an ideal scheme, thats for sure. Its going to be abused, I don't disagree, and lots of people are going look down on it, being used to better times.

Raekwon

Another few threads on here have picked up on this too and I have to say it really is a depressing state of affairs to see peoples hard work getting unrewarded like this. Okay you get to say that you worked for a few more months on your CV when you usually wouldn't but so what.........that's not going to pay the mortgage, rent, bills, expenses etc.

Btw it's bad enough, but understandable, for start-up's to be taking part in this scheme but when you have large multinationals like Deloitte taking part then it really does reek of desperation and really does highlight what a sh*t state that we are currently in :mad:

BostonB

Why would a company, any company, not take advantage of it?

Maybe I'm missing something. But whats the difference in terms of paying your bills, between being on WPP or the dole?

Raekwon

BostonB wrote: »

Why would a company, any company, not take advantage of it?

Why would a company, any company, not just take graduates on for a minimum wage?

BostonB wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something. But whats the difference in terms of paying your bills, between being on WPP or the dole?

Or maybe I'm missing something. I was lead to believe that jobs were created to take people off the dole and provide them with the means to pay their own way in society? Why should tax payers foot the bills for some miserable company who won't even cough up a cent for a full time employee?

FAS aren't lining you up as Rody Molloy's replacement are they?

BostonB

I ask the question because I don't know the specifics being discussed. But I assume in terms of paying a mortgage and other bills you'd be better off on the WPP because you might have many of those bills covered, (its the same as the dole yes?) but on the minimum wage you'd be paying them yourself. Likewise a company pay less for WPP than a Minimum wage employee. So it would make financial sense for them, there maybe be other altruistic reasons for doing it.

Theres limits to how a company takes advantage of it. It probably will be abused. I only commented because I noticed how a most starter roles have switched to WPP. So its closed as many doors for some people as its opened for others.

That said its not 5yrs ago. The market will dictate what these starter roles will be paid, or not paid. Its not the celtic tiger now. Its not what you are worth, but what you can get.

miec

Well I am glad that I am not the only one who is frustrated with the WPP programme, there are so many openings I could have gone for but I can't because I cannot afford to do it. I don't get the full dole as I live with my partner, I get just under half so I cannot do them.

But I assume in terms of paying a mortgage and other bills you'd be better off on the WPP because you might have many of those bills covered, (its the same as the dole yes?) but on the minimum wage you'd be paying them yourself.

If people were offered travelling expenses then the WPP could work but as it currently stands it is not viable. The average person on the dole gets €226 per week, if they live outside Dublin but can commute (which is where most of the vacancies are) they have to pay at least 50 to 70 euros per week on travel. That does not include lunches or other expenses needed for a job, let's say you own a few good suits, make your own lunches to cover that. You need to commit for at least six to nine months, working full time. The travel costs alone take one third of someone's dole money, and they still need to pay for food, heating, electricity and so forth. So it is not economically viable to do this, hence why so many are not doing it. If you get reduced dole like me, your chances are even lower. I would do the scheme if there was one near to where I lived but there isn't like many others here. I think they need to cover people's travel expenses if nothing else and it is a kick in the nuts for those who slogged away in college for years, took out loans, and then be expected to work for nothing except the dole for nearly another year.

Saggitarius

As far as I collected some info already, they at SW try to do a "diversion route". I mean by WPP rules, if you just lost your job, you can apply WPP just before claim any Social Welfare payment: "If you are not in receipt of any social welfare payment you can apply immediately for any of the placements advertised."

That's (I mean) the point in first row. Am I right?

BostonB

miec I can appreciate the frustration. It sound like its not set up to cater for those who would travel. Perhaps they need to revise it again. It would be something to lobby the politicians for. If you did a FAS course you'd get a travel allowance, so I don't see why the WPP shouldn't aswell.

As for working for the dole. People have been arguing for that for years. Also you've been working in college for nothing. Unless you have a grant. Which is more? a grant or dole? I don't know tbh. Many will have no grant in college. So thats working for free too.

Before the celtic tiger it wasn't unusual to go to college and still have no job at the end of it. Those days are here again. It an unfortunate new reality. Indeed a lot of immigrants came here for that reason.

eclectichoney

Saggitarius wrote: »

As far as I collected some info already, they at SW try to do a "diversion route". I mean by WPP rules, if you just lost your job, you can apply WPP just before claim any Social Welfare payment: "If you are not in receipt of any social welfare payment you can apply immediately for any of the placements advertised."

That's (I mean) the point in first row. Am I right?

Well also, don't forget that many people are not eligible for any SW payment as they (a) do not have enough PRSI contributions or (b) they (or their parents f applicable) do not satisfy the means test requirements. So allowing people not in receipt of a payment to apply is presumably to allow such individuals to apply.

donkey balls

i have seen alot of these programs also on the fas website with certain companies looking for people with at least 2-3 years experience and over a certain age for insurance purposes.(and the idea being its for people that have no prior experience)
some of these companies are just looking for someone to work for nothing

JJJJNR

Check this one out, I actually know the company, and the owner is a total chancer.

Area of Activity: IT Infrastructure - Desktop/server support; Network infrastructure support/rollout; 1st level technical support. Elements of Experience: Windows 2003, 2008, SBS, Exchange, Active Directory; building and maintaining Windows Servers and clients; installation and configuration of Cisco routers, ISP routers, sonic fireworks and network applicances. MS office support. Small business server enviroment. Remote support environmental experience. Person Specification: good written and verbal communication skills; good interpersonal skills; well presented at all times


"This is a work experience programme and does not offer a salary" LOL
Location : Dublin 2

unJustMary

miec wrote: »

.... You need to commit for at least six to nine months, working full time....

Just a thought about this: I haven't read the rules of the scheme, but it seems to me that this must be just like any fixed-term job that offers a wage. The commitment to the term is all one way: they are committing to "employ" you for the term. You are only committed to stay for as long as the notice period in your contract. Frankly, for something like this that doesn't involve any cash-contribution from the employer, I'd find it hard to justify more than, say, a week's notice. (Would be fascinated to hear what notice periods the contracts actually have.)

If you get one of these WPP-thingies, unless it really is worth it for you, you should still be job-hunting as hard as ever, IMHO.

I've watched too many people in badly-paid jobs pass up better offers because they (wrongly) believed absolute B-S from employers about them having to work out the full contract. Don't fall for this one!

eclectichoney

I'm pretty sure you can leave at any time, especially if you get paid employment somewhere.

the_syco

eclectichoney wrote: »

I'm pretty sure you can leave at any time, especially if you get paid employment somewhere.

As you'd be getting paid by the government, who would you be giving your notice to?

Think about it. You go down to the FAS office and ask should you give up your work experience place for someone else as you have gotten a paying job, or should you stay? I'd wonder what they'd say?

mood

Has anyone actually got one of these placements? I've applied for quite a few so far.

piskins72

JJJJNR wrote: »

Check this one out, I actually know the company, and the owner is a total chancer.

Area of Activity: IT Infrastructure - Desktop/server support; Network infrastructure support/rollout; 1st level technical support. Elements of Experience: Windows 2003, 2008, SBS, Exchange, Active Directory; building and maintaining Windows Servers and clients; installation and configuration of Cisco routers, ISP routers, sonic fireworks and network applicances. MS office support. Small business server enviroment. Remote support environmental experience. Person Specification: good written and verbal communication skills; good interpersonal skills; well presented at all times


"This is a work experience programme and does not offer a salary" LOL
Location : Dublin 2

I have seen another position in a different area for another company also and I know of them and its the same, literally just been used as a cheap way of getting some one to work for them, with them not having to pay a penny and they can afford to.

sarahzxe

can i just point out ive applied for a few of these placements havin a got a good degree and for looking experience i havent heard anything back from the employers at all and its been over a week! I rang the fas helpline and they said a few of the jobs i applied for many people applied before me had not got them bcos they werent 'suitable' i thought cos its volunteer work they wouldnt be so fussy!!

BTW alot of these placememts are up on the fas website for months, seriously wats goin on??

SeaFields

sarahzxe wrote: »

BTW alot of these placements are up on the fas website for months, seriously wats goin on??

I believe the answer to this, and so many other questions, firmly lie at the door of Mary Coughlan aka "calamity coughlan". Only today she is defending paying Rody Malloy an extra €900k just to get rid of him. How many fcuking people would that get into a work experience scheme for the next 9 months?

I wrote to my local minister explaining the necessity of getting us graduates into work before we, as a country, lose our investment in people through free college fees. I got a reply asking to see my CV, which i sent, and never heard anything back.

As many posters here have pointed out this whole scheme cries out of slave labour. Guess this is where "new Ireland" is at. :mad:

unJustMary

I spotted a great one today - bolding mine:

JB532785 -Personal Assistant / Project Manager (WPP1)

Area of Activity: Galway office, providing experience in secretarial project management, client interface, social and electronic marketing. Elements of Experience offered: administration, IT, data entry, document formatting, telephone skills, project/time client event management; social and electronic marketing, CRM, marketing, PR.
Person Specification: experienced Senior Personal Assistant, advanced Microsoft suite skills, audio/copy typing <65WPM, team player able to work on own and can prioritise.

Educational quals: Level 7 - Graduate

So they're looking for someone with all the experience .. and a degree ... and ... to work for nothing, on a job that they'll get no new experience in!

Grr.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Raekwon wrote: »

Why would a company, any company, not just take graduates on for a minimum wage?

To increase revenue. Not sure what planet you people are living on, but we are talking about businesses here whos sole purpose is to make a profit, they will do that however they can.

mood

I think employers who avail of this scheme should have to prove they can't afford to pay someone to do the job. Maybe this is the case but I've heard nothing to suggest this.

Raekwon

Thomas Blue Babe wrote: »

To increase revenue. Not sure what planet you people are living on, but we are talking about businesses here whos sole purpose is to make a profit, they will do that however they can.

You're missing the point by a county mile here! This scheme is supposedly for graduates to gain experience........full stop. But now some companies are jumping on the bandwagon and are looking for experienced staff that they don't have to pay. It is total exploitation and should not be encouraged, condoned or tolerated regardless of the planet we're living on :rolleyes:

clarelad

Raekwon wrote: »

You're missing the point by a county mile here! This scheme is supposedly for graduates to gain experience........full stop. But now some companies are jumping on the bandwagon and are looking for experienced staff that they don't have to pay. It is total exploitation and should not be encouraged, condoned or tolerated regardless of the planet we're living on :rolleyes:

Exactly...

jimoc

Has anyone actually rang one of these companies and asked them why they are doing it through the WPP instead of actually paying the employee?
Its balatantly obvious in most cases that they have no intention of actually giving the person a full time job or work experience so they are just gaming the system.

Maybe a reporter should do a story on it and ring the companies up in-cognito.

sarahzxe

I have to agree theres defo sometin fishy goin on

donkey balls

Raekwon wrote: »

You're missing the point by a county mile here! This scheme is supposedly for graduates to gain experience........full stop. But now some companies are jumping on the bandwagon and are looking for experienced staff that they don't have to pay. It is total exploitation and should not be encouraged, condoned or tolerated regardless of the planet we're living on :rolleyes:

FAS are well aware of these companies offering the wpp courses i have reported three companies and there adverts were removed from the FAS website.
i also spoke to an officer in the local office about these courses and they said that the FAS mgmt had been informed,(wether they act on it is another thing) the bottom line is these companies are looking for cheap skilled labour.

sarahzxe

well fair play to ya!

Raekwon

donkey balls wrote: »

FAS are well aware of these companies offering the wpp courses i have reported three companies and there adverts were removed from the FAS website.
i also spoke to an officer in the local office about these courses and they said that the FAS mgmt had been informed,(wether they act on it is another thing) the bottom line is these companies are looking for cheap skilled labour.

Well done! I wrote a letter to a few local TD's to raise this issue with FAS and hopefully make this scheme much stricter and actually help graduates gain experience (which this was scheme was actually intended for) and not to exploit the 436,936 and rising unemployed people in this country (which is a shocking figure I might add!)

mood

donkey balls wrote: »

FAS are well aware of these companies offering the wpp courses i have reported three companies and there adverts were removed from the FAS website.
i also spoke to an officer in the local office about these courses and they said that the FAS mgmt had been informed,(wether they act on it is another thing) the bottom line is these companies are looking for cheap skilled labour.

Good idea to report it. I might do the same as almost all I have see expect an experienced person and seem to provide not training etc.

sarahzxe

Raekwon wrote: »

Well done! I wrote a letter to a few local TD's to raise this issue with FAS and hopefully make this scheme much stricter and actually help graduates gain experience (which this was scheme was actually intended for) and not to exploit the 436,936 and rising unemployed people in this country (which is a shocking figure I might add!)

Good work! ive applyed for placements on this scheme 2 help me get work exp being unemployed 4 6 month now that wont look good on my cv. but this scheme clearly isnt working. does anybody know somebody thats actually doing the placement?

donkey balls

mood wrote: »

Good idea to report it. I might do the same as almost all I have see expect an experienced person and seem to provide not training etc.

i have only reported the ones that are advertised in the logistics/transport section so i dont know how many are being advertised throughout the whole website,im sure the more people that complain to the local FAS office the better.

and as the officer said to me these places are for graduates(not experienced people working in the field)

mood

There are loads in my area.

I'm still a little confused about WPP1 and WPP2. What is the difference?

donkey balls

mood wrote: »

There are loads in my area.

I'm still a little confused about WPP1 and WPP2. What is the difference?

try this link info on the programs here


http://www.fas.ie/en/Job+Seeker/WPP/default.htm

mood

Just looked at the FAS website again. Hardly any jobs just WPPs. I think the more we report the companies abusing the system the more actual jobs there will be. It's quite shocking really.

I've just seem 1 WPP2. The position is 'Catering Assistant'. You would learn how to make a Latte! How could that be use full to and college or university graduate looking for a job in their chosen area?

28064212

mood wrote: »

I've just seem 1 WPP2. The position is 'Catering Assistant'. You would learn how to make a Latte! How could that be use full to and college or university graduate looking for a job in their chosen area?

From the page you were linked to in the last post:

• Work Placement Programme 2 (WPP2): All other persons who have not attained a full award at level 7 or above on the National Framework of Qualifications.

There's thousands of unqualified unemployed people out there, this could be an opportunity to change career direction, or just pick up a few skills

mood

I get your point but this is hardly offering anyone decent experience that will really stand to then. It however is keeping people on the dole when they could easily pay someone which would reduce the unemployment rate.