The sunday world - ''my hell'' DISGUSTING

MAB83

I remember hearing about this years ago. Awful, just awful.

Was anyone brought to justice over it? Sorry I haven't read through the entire thread.

BumbleB

How could you ? to a little baba ?. The mind boggles . very sad

eviltwin

I read the story in the paper on Sunday and actually cried. My own daughter is 12 and I can't imagine her having to go through all that and seeing what that monster of a mother did to her baby. And then to have to go through another pregnancy two years later.

It makes me sick that child abusers get away with it so easily in this country.

Piste

happyoutish wrote: »

All the above is common knowledge and I understand you cannot comment on the case but In your opinion why do you think there something not right about it?

I've heard (and this of course is hear say) that her family say what she says is untrue. I'm interested to know why you think something is not right about it.

Yeah I've heard that too, somebody told me her family have denied it, but I'd like to see actual news reports where they denied it and what they actually said.

Danniboo

Piste wrote: »

Yeah I've heard that too, somebody told me her family have denied it, but I'd like to see actual news reports where they denied it and what they actually said.

Why what were people expecting them to hand themselves in at the nearest police station and confess, to murders, child molestation and abuse. Of coure they're going to deny it :rolleyes: How does this make the case not right, do other criminals admit it to their actions as soon as they're asked. I don't get it.

Odysseus

Danniboo wrote: »

Why what were people expecting them to hand themselves in at the nearest police station and confess, to murders, child molestation and abuse. Of coure they're going to deny it :rolleyes: How does this make the case not right, do other criminals admit it to their actions as soon as they're asked. I don't get it.

Actual quite a few do, it depends on the quality of the evidence presented to them, additionally a guilty plea is taken into consideration in sentencing.

sam34

Danniboo wrote: »

Why what were people expecting them to hand themselves in at the nearest police station and confess, to murders, child molestation and abuse. Of coure they're going to deny it :rolleyes: How does this make the case not right, do other criminals admit it to their actions as soon as they're asked. I don't get it.

i think some of her siblings denied it too - ie not just those who were actually accused, but others who were living in the same house at the same time


now i know that doesnt mean it didnt happen, im just saying that they have denied it.

its possible abuse went on and they were unaware of it.

but its also possible the abuse didnt happen, and she is lying, for whatever reason.

Piste

Danniboo wrote: »

Why what were people expecting them to hand themselves in at the nearest police station and confess, to murders, child molestation and abuse. Of coure they're going to deny it :rolleyes: How does this make the case not right, do other criminals admit it to their actions as soon as they're asked. I don't get it.

I was talking about her siblings, she claims they were all abused but apparently some of her siblings have denied it.


":rolleyes:" right back at you.

JD24

irishbird wrote: »

the first baby was buried in the angels plot in glasnevin. they dug up the plot in the last year to do dna test to prove it was her baby but unfortunately it was too late.

That comment is not true. The first baby was buried in the angels plot but no exhumation has ever taken place. It was refused by the Minister for Justice on the basis that it would be nearly impossible to find this particular baby in a plot with 30/40 other babies. It was widely published at the time of the Inquest of the baby.

Novella

I bought her book, 'Living With Evil', and I have just finished reading it. It is the first and only book to ever have made me cry. The things she went through are just so unimaginable and there were times when I wasn't sure I was going to be able to finish reading the whole book. It is a truly harrowing story.
It is a true testament to how much a person can take, physically, emotionally and mentally. She is one strong lady.

miec

I agree its a tragic story its awful but as a parent and life loving we all need to understand the twisted sense of life that exists out there. We need to understand it so we can fight it and give support to its victems.

Well said, it is important that we as a society know these things. I just wanted to add that one of her sisters committed suicide and in the note she mentioned about the abuse that she and Cynthia suffered. It is very, very common for others in a family to deny that abuse occurred, even by those who have been abused.

Giselle

sam34 wrote: »

i think some of her siblings denied it too - ie not just those who were actually accused, but others who were living in the same house at the same time


now i know that doesnt mean it didnt happen, im just saying that they have denied it.

its possible abuse went on and they were unaware of it.

but its also possible the abuse didnt happen, and she is lying, for whatever reason.

People lie. Some do it because they're ill, some do it for gain.

Unless a case is done and dusted in court, I won't assume the truth or otherwise of it. Other authors have been found to have made up or embellished the truth to cater for the 'misery literature' market

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_memoirs

I have a big problem with the sort of books that do well these days, even the titles are ghoulish.

one that sticks in my mind on a shelf in Easons..''Ma, he sold me for a packet of cigarettes''

Seriously, what would motivate someone to read that sort of thing? Is there really a market in turning someone else's childhood misery into entertainment?

I don't believe that making the public aware of the nature and extent of your abuse (hence turning a profit) is cathartic either. Therapy is healthier and more appropriate for that.

Something about this case doesn't ring right with me, but then I have a general distaste for making your apparent personal tragedy a topic for speculation, idle gossip, or chat show interviews.

I'm not saying things should be swept under the carpet, but I think a victim loses something of their dignity by making entertainment of their abuse.

Novella

Giselle wrote: »

People lie. Some do it because they're ill, some do it for gain.

Unless a case is done and dusted in court, I won't assume the truth or otherwise of it. Other authors have been found to have made up or embellished the truth to cater for the 'misery literature' market

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_memoirs

I have a big problem with the sort of books that do well these days, even the titles are ghoulish.

one that sticks in my mind on a shelf in Easons..''Ma, he sold me for a packet of cigarettes''

Seriously, what would motivate someone to read that sort of thing? Is there really a market in turning someone else's childhood misery into entertainment?

I don't believe that making the public aware of the nature and extent of your abuse (hence turning a profit) is cathartic either. Therapy is healthier and more appropriate for that.

Something about this case doesn't ring right with me, but then I have a general distaste for making your apparent personal tragedy a topic for speculation, idle gossip, or chat show interviews.

I'm not saying things should be swept under the carpet, but I think a victim loses something of their dignity by making entertainment of their abuse.

"I'm very proud to have written this book. It has helped me enormously, and I can finally rest. I sleep at night, knowing I did everything I possibly could to tell the truth and get justice for Noleen."

I've taken that from the epilogue of her book.

I don't for a second think she has taken her abuse etc. and made it a topic for "speculation, idle gossip, or chat show interviews". She wrote a book. It's in no way entertaining and she hasn't lost a shred of dignity. In fact, I find that statement highly offensive. You think she lost her dignity by writing a book? I think she lost her dignity when she was raped repeatedly, when she was treated as if she was nothing in her own home.

Writing a book is in fact therapy for a lot of people who have been through traumatic events in their past. You might think it's more 'appropriate' to keep things locked away in a tiny room between an abuse victim and a counsellor, but in my mind, that's the problem and I doubt I'm alone in that way of thinking.

Giselle

Novella wrote: »

"I'm very proud to have written this book. It has helped me enormously, and I can finally rest. I sleep at night, knowing I did everything I possibly could to tell the truth and get justice for Noleen."

I've taken that from the epilogue of her book.

I don't for a second think she has taken her abuse etc. and made it a topic for "speculation, idle gossip, or chat show interviews". She wrote a book. It's in no way entertaining and she hasn't lost a shred of dignity. In fact, I find that statement highly offensive. You think she lost her dignity by writing a book? I think she lost her dignity when she was raped repeatedly, when she was treated as if she was nothing in her own home.

Writing a book is in fact therapy for a lot of people who have been through traumatic events in their past. You might think it's more 'appropriate' to keep things locked away in a tiny room between an abuse victim and a counsellor, but in my mind, that's the problem and I doubt I'm alone in that way of thinking.

Now hold on there.

I never referred specifically to what that woman has to say apart from it not feeling right to me.

People are speculating, people do gossip, even in this thread, an she is giving interviews about her abuse. And why do people buy the book, if not to read about what she suffered? Those are facts, if you find me stating them offensive, don't shoot the messenger.

If her story is accurate, then she certainly did suffer horribly. No question. But its sad that its the writing of a 'memoir' thats given her a sense of justice, don't you think?

My take on abuse victims is that being abused of itself doesn't steal your dignity, although that is how victims feel. I feel it steals the dignity of the abuser.

You have your opinions, I have mine. Thats all they are, opinions.

bealfeirste5

Novella wrote: »

I bought her book, 'Living With Evil', and I have just finished reading it. It is the first and only book to ever have made me cry. The things she went through are just so unimaginable and there were times when I wasn't sure I was going to be able to finish reading the whole book. It is a truly harrowing story.
It is a true testament to how much a person can take, physically, emotionally and mentally. She is one strong lady.

Totally agree.. the book is unputdownable!

I see that the sisters of Cythia Owen are looking to quash the findings of the the inquest which ruled that Cynthia Owen was infact the mother of the baby whose body was found in Dun Laoghaire in 1973.

There are an awful lot of disparities in the story in my opinion.

Noone was ever convicted of any abuse or murder. There was no medical or forensic evidence to suggest that the the baby was Cythia Owen's. And her three sisters have ferciously denied any such abuse ever occuring. The body of the other baby which she claimed was buried in the back garden of the house was never recovered.

I'm not saying it didn't happen by the way, I have absolutely no way of knowing such a think, but I certainly wouldn't be sure what to believe. There seem to be an awful lot of unanswered questions surrounding the accusations.

It's a horrific story certainly. But is there a possibility that it is just that - A story?

Todays piece on RTE

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0309/dalkey.html

pookie82

Abitar wrote: »

One of Ryans questions to her went along the lines of 'did you not feel that there was someone you could tell?' Well it is blatantly obvious she was terrified to tell anyone. She was brought up in fear, designed by her parents so they could keep up their sick and twisted lives.

That's the problem with Tubridy, he asks really ridiculously obvious questions in the hope that they will provoke an emotive response. The guy is as subtle as a shot gun. (If anyone saw him with the farce of a Gerry Adams interview they'll understand what I mean).

Horrific story. You really couldn't make it up:(

JD24

Deleted User wrote: »

I see that the sisters of Cythia Owen are looking to quash the findings of the the inquest which ruled that Cynthia Owen was infact the mother of the baby whose body was found in Dun Laoghaire in 1973.

There are an awful lot of disparities in the story in my opinion.

Noone was ever convicted of any abuse or murder. There was no medical or forensic evidence to suggest that the the baby was Cythia Owen's. And her three sisters have ferciously denied any such abuse ever occuring. The body of the other baby which she claimed was buried in the back garden of the house was never recovered.

I'm not saying it didn't happen by the way, I have absolutely no way of knowing such a think, but I certainly wouldn't be sure what to believe. There seem to be an awful lot of unanswered questions surrounding the accusations.

It's a horrific story certainly. But is there a possibility that it is just that - A story?

Todays piece on RTE

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0309/dalkey.html

One sister is looking to squash the findings. The other two have dropped it.

JD24

JD24 wrote: »

One sister is looking to squash the findings. The other two have dropped it.

One sister with the support of another sister

The challenge to the inquest's verdict is being taken by her sister, Catherine Stevenson. It is being supported by another sister, Esther Roberts.

JD24

Deleted User wrote: »

I see that the sisters of Cythia Owen are looking to quash the findings of the the inquest which ruled that Cynthia Owen was infact the mother of the baby whose body was found in Dun Laoghaire in 1973.

There are an awful lot of disparities in the story in my opinion.

Noone was ever convicted of any abuse or murder. There was no medical or forensic evidence to suggest that the the baby was Cythia Owen's. And her three sisters have ferciously denied any such abuse ever occuring. The body of the other baby which she claimed was buried in the back garden of the house was never recovered.

I'm not saying it didn't happen by the way, I have absolutely no way of knowing such a think, but I certainly wouldn't be sure what to believe. There seem to be an awful lot of unanswered questions surrounding the accusations.

It's a horrific story certainly. But is there a possibility that it is just that - A story?

Todays piece on RTE

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0309/dalkey.html

One sister is looking to squash the findings. The other two have dropped it...

You dont seem to have all of the "story"

No one was ever convicted because of the passing of time and the lack of evidence. There was no evidence of any kind because the Gardai had "lost" the evidence. All the evidence containing all traces of DNA was lost and last handled by the same Garda who she is accusing of abusing her.

Three of her sisters have denied it however all her other siblings, excluding one brother (who she has accused) also back her version of events. One sister committed suicide leaving a 50 page diary detailing all of the abuse she suffered.

The body of the second baby has never been found and Gardai were fully aware before they carried out the search that after 30 years, bones of a baby exposed to the elements would not be found.

At the Inquest, neighbours, teachers and friends all gave evidence stating that the abuse was well known to have been carried out.

All of this was widely published at the hearing of the Inquest.

JD24

JD24 wrote: »

You dont seem to have all of the "story"

.

I'm sure I don't. I never claimed to.

JD24

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm sure I don't. I never claimed to.

Deleted User wrote: »

But is there a possibility that it is just that - A story?

Thats a pretty big accusation to make based on something your not fully aware of

JD24

JD24 wrote: »

Thats a pretty big accusation to make based on something your not fully aware of

It was a question. Not an accusation. See the difference?

I'm not saying it didn't happen by the way, I have absolutely no way of knowing such a think

Giselle

JD24 wrote: »

No one was ever convicted because of the passing of time and the lack of evidence. .

Was there a trial?

I thought no one was charged, never mind put on trial for anything.

JD24

Deleted User wrote: »

It was a question. Not an accusation. See the difference?

Its a matter of interpretation however you've clarified you were asking a question

Deleted User wrote: »

There are an awful lot of disparities in the story in my opinion.

JD24 wrote: »

You dont seem to have all of the "story" QUOTE]

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm sure I don't. I never claimed to.

JD24

Giselle wrote: »

Was there a trial?

I thought no one was charged, never mind put on trial for anything.

Wrong choice of word on my behalf, i was replying to a previous poster who had mentioned this.

I should have said that no one was ever prosecuted

I stand by what I said. From what I have read on the story (it's called a story when it's in a Newspaper btw) there appears, in my opinion (which I already stated) to be alot of disparities.

wobblyknees

Deleted User wrote: »

I stand by what I said. From what I have read on the story (it's called a story when it's in a Newspaper btw) there appears, in my opinion (which I already stated) to be alot of disparities.

I agree, number one being the only way she has been able to seek any justice is by speaking in public about her ordeal and thankfully, given the lost years of her life, has now released a book which allows her to fully explain things and at the same time, bring in an income and at least enjoy the second half of her life.

Those who disagree with her giving interviews and releasing a book should turn off or not read. Simple.

I actually find it amazing to think, given the scandals and cover ups of the magnitude we have had in Ireland over the past 50 years involving Gardai, Preists, Nuns, Parents and people in the community in general, that it's actually quite logical to think that this story is absolutely true.

enda1

Surely such a book would be very libellous?

Innocence is assumed so without any conviction, I'm going to have to call bull**** on this woman's publicity stunt.

Dudess

shakencat wrote: »

please say someone else read and is disgusted by this story??

What else would people be?