The sunday world - ''my hell'' DISGUSTING

shakencat

I just read the most sickening story i think i have ever even nearly finished.

in the sunday world 10th jan, ''my hell''

a lady speaks out about her dad pregnating her at 11, and how her mam killed it??

opening note

''my baby girl had soft hair, and pink skin. then i saw a flash of a knitting needle as my mum stabbed her in the face and neck over and over again''

please say someone else read and is disgusted by this story??

Little Acorn

Read it earlier. It's probably the sickest story I've heard of.
I think that lady was on the late late show telling this story,but I didn't see it.
There is a book out now.

Joey the lips

shakencat wrote: »

I just read the most sickening story i think i have ever even nearly finished.

in the sunday world 10th jan, ''my hell''

a lady speaks out about her dad pregnating her at 11, and how her mam killed it??

opening note

''my baby girl had soft hair, and pink skin. then i saw a flash of a knitting needle as my mum stabbed her in the face and neck over and over again''

please say someone else read and is disgusted by this story??

She was on the late late on friday. I would rec you watch it on real player on RTE. Its one of the worst stories i heard in a while. It brought the Kerry babies back to me.

shakencat

I dont feel queezy(sp?!) easy..
Im ok with stories and gorey stuff,

But the story in the paper actually made my mouth water (to get sick)

i dont know if i could watch the late late show to be honest.

does anyone know if they found the babies body???

Joey the lips

shakencat wrote: »

I dont feel queezy(sp?!) easy..
Im ok with stories and gorey stuff,

But the story in the paper actually made my mouth water (to get sick)

i dont know if i could watch the late late show to be honest.

does anyone know if they found the babies body???

So why open a dicussion about it. Makes no sense. Watch the show. She is very interesting.

amacachi

Yeah I think I'll forgo the opportunity to get more details about this.

Abi

I didn't see the paper, though I did see her on the Late Late. I thought considering what she'd been through, she was incredibly brave to come on and tell her story. She seems to be dealing with it in the best way that she can, though you could see some of Ryans questions were too painful for her to answer.

I think she really needed to write this book, to break the silence so to speak. What they did to her was vile. To a child the parents are the two people you can trust and know they will look out for you against the horrible things in the big bad world, but in this girls case the enemy was inside her home.

One of Ryans questions to her went along the lines of 'did you not feel that there was someone you could tell?' Well it is blatantly obvious she was terrified to tell anyone. She was brought up in fear, designed by her parents so they could keep up their sick and twisted lives.

I hope her book does really well, she deserves a little happiness. I'm going to keep an eye out for a copy anyway.

shakencat

Abigayle wrote: »

I didn't see the paper, though I did see her on the Late Late. I thought considering what she'd been through, she was incredibly brave to come on and tell her story. She seems to be dealing with it in the best way that she can, though you could see some of Ryans questions were too painful for her to answer.

I think she really needed to write this book, to break the silence so to speak. What they did to her was vile. To a child the parents are the two people you can trust and know they will look out for you against the horrible things in the big bad world, but in this girls case the enemy was inside her home.

One of Ryans questions to her went along the lines of 'did you not feel that there was someone you could tell?' Well it is blatantly obvious she was terrified to tell anyone. She was brought up in fear, designed by her parents so they could keep up their sick and twisted lives.

I hope her book does really well, she deserves a little happiness. I'm going to keep an eye out for a copy anyway.

i havent seen it around yet. but i wil get a copy of it too..
im sure it would be a horrible read..

but something that would need to be told.

Novella

I read that story yesterday in The Sunday World. It was absolutely shocking and I couldn't believe what I was reading. The poor woman, she really has been to hell and back and my heart goes out to her.

I am going to buy her book. I admire her. She is so strong and so brave and imo, a role model for us all. Everyday people suffer hardships and I think it is how you deal with these things that count. All I know is, if I were her, I wouldn't have dealt with it even half as well. She should be so proud of herself because emotional strength to that degree is a serious attribute.

I hope that writing her book brought her some closure and that it does well for her.

fairycakes

Hi yeah she was on the late late on Friday night, it made me feel physical sick that poor lady had evil parents!! some sick people out there!

misswex

Yeah I also saw this on the Late Late show, it was just shocking to listen to the woman tell the story of her childhood!! It was beyond belief that something like that could happen to a person. I know there are sick and perverted people out there but these so call parents must be the most perverted and and sick people I've ever heard about!!

It seems she hasn't even gotten closure yet and her parents died without facing up to their crimes!! It jsut seems so unfair that they never showed any remorse for what they did to her!!

akamossy

I just watched this interview and it's a very moving story, this woman has not received any justice for the abuse she went through. It must have been an extremely traumatic experience and I think she's an utterly brave woman for coming out and telling her story.

Catari Jaguar

Is that the Dun Laoire/ Dalkey house of horrors? I remember reading about that a few years ago. Someof the siblings also committed suicide iirc. Horrific stuff.

Abi

Lil Kitten wrote: »

Is that the Dun Laoire/ Dalkey house of horrors? I remember reading about that a few years ago. Someof the siblings also committed suicide iirc. Horrific stuff.

Yep, thats the one. Theres no one word that can describe what she went through, and her siblings. Not to mention the baby girl, what the hell did she ever do, or any of them in fact - to deserve that

Fago!

Abigayle wrote: »

Yep, thats the one. Theres no one word that can describe what she went through, and her siblings. Not to mention the baby girl, what the hell did she ever do, or any of them in fact - to deserve that

What the hell COULD they have done to deserve that?.

It's truly disgusting stuff. I'm just goin by what you lot have said. I haven't read the story.

Storys like this always strike a nerve with me.

Baby P comes to mind. What did he or any of these innocent children ever do to deserve the horror they went through?

I nearly cried when I saw that on the news.

shakencat

Fago_25 wrote: »

What the hell COULD they have done to deserve that?.

It's truly disgusting stuff. I'm just goin by what you lot have said. I haven't read the story.

Storys like this always strike a nerve with me.

Baby P comes to mind. What did he or any of these innocent children ever do to deserve the horror they went through?

I nearly cried when I saw that on the news.

That was A F*cking digusting thing bout baby P

words cant describe how much hatred i hold for people willing to hit a child.
i would agree with the odd slap.. (like i would have gotten when i was younger) but my god. not what we hear of what happening now.

Disgusting.

I cant even think of anything else to say.

Raspberries

I remember reading about it in the Sunday Indo a few years ago. I couldn't finish the article, I was so disgusted and horrified. It is truly terrible that she had to endure that. I work in a book shop, and loads of people are buying her book, so that's something at least. Poor woman.

LadyE

Horrible story

anyone any links to the Sunday World article?

Faith

It's on www.sundayworld.com

It won't load for me at the moment, so I can't paste the story.

Abi

LadyE wrote: »

Horrible story

anyone any links to the Sunday World article?

Heres another snippet from The Post:

Dalkey accused may be named in court
03 January 2010 By John Burke

The names of the alleged sexual abusers of the woman at the centre of the so-called ‘Dalkey House of Horrors’ case may be entered into evidence in forthcoming civil proceedings.

Cynthia Owen claimed to have given birth to a baby at the age of 11 after suffering years of abuse. At an inquest into the death of her baby daughter, whose remains were found dumped in a laneway in Dun Laoghaire more than 30 years ago, Owen made a statement listing those she accused of being part of a group who abused her.

The document listing those names have never been made public and is understood to include several former members of the Garda Síochána. It is believed that seven of the men on the list are still alive and live in Dublin. None of the men have ever been charged or convicted with any sexual offence.

Owen told the inquest that her late mother, Josephine Murphy, had been aware of the sexual abuse and claimed that Murphy had killed the baby with a knitting needle.

Dr Kieran Geraghty, who was Dublin county coroner at that time, declined to make that statement public given the accusatory nature of the document.

That document is now being sought in a discovery order taken by one of Owen’s remaining siblings, Catherine Stevenson, in a High Court challenge to the coroner court decision in February 2007.

The jury at Dublin County Coroner’s Court unanimously ruled that the newborn baby was Owen’s daughter.

The inquest ruled that the baby died at Owen’s family home at White’s Villas in Dalkey on April 4,1973 of shock and haemorrhage due to multiple stab wounds when it was just hours old. An open verdict was returned on the death.

Owen, who is now in her 40s and lives in Wales, had maintained the child was conceived as a result of consistent sexual abuse in her family home and testified that she was repeatedly raped from the age of seven or eight into her teenage years.

dragona

LadyE wrote: »

Horrible story

anyone any links to the Sunday World article?

http://www.sundayworld.com/columnists/cover-story.php

Vile.Unspeakably vile.

FarmerGreen

I really wish I hadnt read this.

Little Acorn

I missed her on the Late Late Show,but
the repeat of the show has started now on RTE1 for anybody else who missed it.

Piste

It's a disgusting story, but it bothers me how the Sunday World keeps showing pictures of the dad going about his daily business with captions like "PURE EVIL: MONSTER DAD". He wasn't charged or even convicted of anything, all anyone has to go on is Cynthia's word. I really hate trial by media, but what can you expect from the Sunday World.

pikachucheeks

dragona wrote: »

http://www.sundayworld.com/columnists/cover-story.php

Vile.Unspeakably vile.

Oh good god.

I feel faint from reading that.

I can't even put it in to words, how awful it is.

happyoutish

I also saw this lady on the Late Late Show I was visiting my parents and we were watching it. I burst out crying and left the room(and i'm in my 30's). I just could not bear hearing about it (again). Things like this make me so mad and sick to my stomach. I really do feel for anyone who has gone through any kind of abuse especially when its by their parents who are supposed to be there to protect and love them. It just makes me mad as hell.

I really do hope that the more people see and hear about this womans story that it will give them strength to speak out.

She is a very brave woman and I can only say that I hope time will help her heal.

Joey the lips

i personally think the saddest thing is not to listen and read this story and stories like it. The reason this crap still happens is because we as people stick our head in the sand as we are too upset.

I agree its a tragic story its awful but as a parent and life loving we all need to understand the twisted sense of life that exists out there. We need to understand it so we can fight it and give support to its victems.

Its on real player on RTE if anyone is interested.

Danniboo

I'm surprised people are only hearing about this horrific story for the first time. I hope this lady finds peace and the sick paedophiles that are still roming around are locked up. May they rot in hell.

John Mason

shakencat wrote: »

does anyone know if they found the babies body???

the first baby was buried in the angels plot in glasnevin. they dug up the plot in the last year to do dna test to prove it was her baby but unfortunately it was too late.

the second baby has not been found, they dug up the garden of the house where it was supposed to have been buried but nothing was found.

i worked on this case when i was a legal secretary and have read all the notes and reports and met the woman.

i cannot comment on the case but there is something not right with it.

happyoutish

irishbird wrote: »

the first baby was buried in the angels plot in glasnevin. they dug up the plot in the last year to do dna test to prove it was her baby but unfortunately it was too late.

the second baby has not been found, they dug up the garden of the house where it was supposed to have been buried but nothing was found.

i worked on this case when i was a legal secretary and have read all the notes and reports and met the woman.

i cannot comment on the case but there is something not right with it.

All the above is common knowledge and I understand you cannot comment on the case but In your opinion why do you think there something not right about it?

I've heard (and this of course is hear say) that her family say what she says is untrue. I'm interested to know why you think something is not right about it.

Danniboo

happyoutish wrote: »

All the above is common knowledge and I understand you cannot comment on the case but In your opinion why do you think there something not right about it?

I've heard (and this of course is hear say) that her family say what she says is untrue. I'm interested to know why you think something is not right about it.

+1. It really gets up my goat when people make comments about such sensitive issues like this and say things like you don't know the full story or somethings not right. Unless you have something to base this on people are best not to say anything at all.

MAB83

I remember hearing about this years ago. Awful, just awful.

Was anyone brought to justice over it? Sorry I haven't read through the entire thread.

BumbleB

How could you ? to a little baba ?. The mind boggles . very sad

eviltwin

I read the story in the paper on Sunday and actually cried. My own daughter is 12 and I can't imagine her having to go through all that and seeing what that monster of a mother did to her baby. And then to have to go through another pregnancy two years later.

It makes me sick that child abusers get away with it so easily in this country.

Piste

happyoutish wrote: »

All the above is common knowledge and I understand you cannot comment on the case but In your opinion why do you think there something not right about it?

I've heard (and this of course is hear say) that her family say what she says is untrue. I'm interested to know why you think something is not right about it.

Yeah I've heard that too, somebody told me her family have denied it, but I'd like to see actual news reports where they denied it and what they actually said.

Danniboo

Piste wrote: »

Yeah I've heard that too, somebody told me her family have denied it, but I'd like to see actual news reports where they denied it and what they actually said.

Why what were people expecting them to hand themselves in at the nearest police station and confess, to murders, child molestation and abuse. Of coure they're going to deny it :rolleyes: How does this make the case not right, do other criminals admit it to their actions as soon as they're asked. I don't get it.

Odysseus

Danniboo wrote: »

Why what were people expecting them to hand themselves in at the nearest police station and confess, to murders, child molestation and abuse. Of coure they're going to deny it :rolleyes: How does this make the case not right, do other criminals admit it to their actions as soon as they're asked. I don't get it.

Actual quite a few do, it depends on the quality of the evidence presented to them, additionally a guilty plea is taken into consideration in sentencing.

sam34

Danniboo wrote: »

Why what were people expecting them to hand themselves in at the nearest police station and confess, to murders, child molestation and abuse. Of coure they're going to deny it :rolleyes: How does this make the case not right, do other criminals admit it to their actions as soon as they're asked. I don't get it.

i think some of her siblings denied it too - ie not just those who were actually accused, but others who were living in the same house at the same time


now i know that doesnt mean it didnt happen, im just saying that they have denied it.

its possible abuse went on and they were unaware of it.

but its also possible the abuse didnt happen, and she is lying, for whatever reason.

Piste

Danniboo wrote: »

Why what were people expecting them to hand themselves in at the nearest police station and confess, to murders, child molestation and abuse. Of coure they're going to deny it :rolleyes: How does this make the case not right, do other criminals admit it to their actions as soon as they're asked. I don't get it.

I was talking about her siblings, she claims they were all abused but apparently some of her siblings have denied it.


":rolleyes:" right back at you.

JD24

irishbird wrote: »

the first baby was buried in the angels plot in glasnevin. they dug up the plot in the last year to do dna test to prove it was her baby but unfortunately it was too late.

That comment is not true. The first baby was buried in the angels plot but no exhumation has ever taken place. It was refused by the Minister for Justice on the basis that it would be nearly impossible to find this particular baby in a plot with 30/40 other babies. It was widely published at the time of the Inquest of the baby.

Novella

I bought her book, 'Living With Evil', and I have just finished reading it. It is the first and only book to ever have made me cry. The things she went through are just so unimaginable and there were times when I wasn't sure I was going to be able to finish reading the whole book. It is a truly harrowing story.
It is a true testament to how much a person can take, physically, emotionally and mentally. She is one strong lady.

miec

I agree its a tragic story its awful but as a parent and life loving we all need to understand the twisted sense of life that exists out there. We need to understand it so we can fight it and give support to its victems.

Well said, it is important that we as a society know these things. I just wanted to add that one of her sisters committed suicide and in the note she mentioned about the abuse that she and Cynthia suffered. It is very, very common for others in a family to deny that abuse occurred, even by those who have been abused.

Giselle

sam34 wrote: »

i think some of her siblings denied it too - ie not just those who were actually accused, but others who were living in the same house at the same time


now i know that doesnt mean it didnt happen, im just saying that they have denied it.

its possible abuse went on and they were unaware of it.

but its also possible the abuse didnt happen, and she is lying, for whatever reason.

People lie. Some do it because they're ill, some do it for gain.

Unless a case is done and dusted in court, I won't assume the truth or otherwise of it. Other authors have been found to have made up or embellished the truth to cater for the 'misery literature' market

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_memoirs

I have a big problem with the sort of books that do well these days, even the titles are ghoulish.

one that sticks in my mind on a shelf in Easons..''Ma, he sold me for a packet of cigarettes''

Seriously, what would motivate someone to read that sort of thing? Is there really a market in turning someone else's childhood misery into entertainment?

I don't believe that making the public aware of the nature and extent of your abuse (hence turning a profit) is cathartic either. Therapy is healthier and more appropriate for that.

Something about this case doesn't ring right with me, but then I have a general distaste for making your apparent personal tragedy a topic for speculation, idle gossip, or chat show interviews.

I'm not saying things should be swept under the carpet, but I think a victim loses something of their dignity by making entertainment of their abuse.

Novella

Giselle wrote: »

People lie. Some do it because they're ill, some do it for gain.

Unless a case is done and dusted in court, I won't assume the truth or otherwise of it. Other authors have been found to have made up or embellished the truth to cater for the 'misery literature' market

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_memoirs

I have a big problem with the sort of books that do well these days, even the titles are ghoulish.

one that sticks in my mind on a shelf in Easons..''Ma, he sold me for a packet of cigarettes''

Seriously, what would motivate someone to read that sort of thing? Is there really a market in turning someone else's childhood misery into entertainment?

I don't believe that making the public aware of the nature and extent of your abuse (hence turning a profit) is cathartic either. Therapy is healthier and more appropriate for that.

Something about this case doesn't ring right with me, but then I have a general distaste for making your apparent personal tragedy a topic for speculation, idle gossip, or chat show interviews.

I'm not saying things should be swept under the carpet, but I think a victim loses something of their dignity by making entertainment of their abuse.

"I'm very proud to have written this book. It has helped me enormously, and I can finally rest. I sleep at night, knowing I did everything I possibly could to tell the truth and get justice for Noleen."

I've taken that from the epilogue of her book.

I don't for a second think she has taken her abuse etc. and made it a topic for "speculation, idle gossip, or chat show interviews". She wrote a book. It's in no way entertaining and she hasn't lost a shred of dignity. In fact, I find that statement highly offensive. You think she lost her dignity by writing a book? I think she lost her dignity when she was raped repeatedly, when she was treated as if she was nothing in her own home.

Writing a book is in fact therapy for a lot of people who have been through traumatic events in their past. You might think it's more 'appropriate' to keep things locked away in a tiny room between an abuse victim and a counsellor, but in my mind, that's the problem and I doubt I'm alone in that way of thinking.

Giselle

Novella wrote: »

"I'm very proud to have written this book. It has helped me enormously, and I can finally rest. I sleep at night, knowing I did everything I possibly could to tell the truth and get justice for Noleen."

I've taken that from the epilogue of her book.

I don't for a second think she has taken her abuse etc. and made it a topic for "speculation, idle gossip, or chat show interviews". She wrote a book. It's in no way entertaining and she hasn't lost a shred of dignity. In fact, I find that statement highly offensive. You think she lost her dignity by writing a book? I think she lost her dignity when she was raped repeatedly, when she was treated as if she was nothing in her own home.

Writing a book is in fact therapy for a lot of people who have been through traumatic events in their past. You might think it's more 'appropriate' to keep things locked away in a tiny room between an abuse victim and a counsellor, but in my mind, that's the problem and I doubt I'm alone in that way of thinking.

Now hold on there.

I never referred specifically to what that woman has to say apart from it not feeling right to me.

People are speculating, people do gossip, even in this thread, an she is giving interviews about her abuse. And why do people buy the book, if not to read about what she suffered? Those are facts, if you find me stating them offensive, don't shoot the messenger.

If her story is accurate, then she certainly did suffer horribly. No question. But its sad that its the writing of a 'memoir' thats given her a sense of justice, don't you think?

My take on abuse victims is that being abused of itself doesn't steal your dignity, although that is how victims feel. I feel it steals the dignity of the abuser.

You have your opinions, I have mine. Thats all they are, opinions.

bealfeirste5

Novella wrote: »

I bought her book, 'Living With Evil', and I have just finished reading it. It is the first and only book to ever have made me cry. The things she went through are just so unimaginable and there were times when I wasn't sure I was going to be able to finish reading the whole book. It is a truly harrowing story.
It is a true testament to how much a person can take, physically, emotionally and mentally. She is one strong lady.

Totally agree.. the book is unputdownable!

I see that the sisters of Cythia Owen are looking to quash the findings of the the inquest which ruled that Cynthia Owen was infact the mother of the baby whose body was found in Dun Laoghaire in 1973.

There are an awful lot of disparities in the story in my opinion.

Noone was ever convicted of any abuse or murder. There was no medical or forensic evidence to suggest that the the baby was Cythia Owen's. And her three sisters have ferciously denied any such abuse ever occuring. The body of the other baby which she claimed was buried in the back garden of the house was never recovered.

I'm not saying it didn't happen by the way, I have absolutely no way of knowing such a think, but I certainly wouldn't be sure what to believe. There seem to be an awful lot of unanswered questions surrounding the accusations.

It's a horrific story certainly. But is there a possibility that it is just that - A story?

Todays piece on RTE

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0309/dalkey.html

pookie82

Abitar wrote: »

One of Ryans questions to her went along the lines of 'did you not feel that there was someone you could tell?' Well it is blatantly obvious she was terrified to tell anyone. She was brought up in fear, designed by her parents so they could keep up their sick and twisted lives.

That's the problem with Tubridy, he asks really ridiculously obvious questions in the hope that they will provoke an emotive response. The guy is as subtle as a shot gun. (If anyone saw him with the farce of a Gerry Adams interview they'll understand what I mean).

Horrific story. You really couldn't make it up:(

JD24

Deleted User wrote: »

I see that the sisters of Cythia Owen are looking to quash the findings of the the inquest which ruled that Cynthia Owen was infact the mother of the baby whose body was found in Dun Laoghaire in 1973.

There are an awful lot of disparities in the story in my opinion.

Noone was ever convicted of any abuse or murder. There was no medical or forensic evidence to suggest that the the baby was Cythia Owen's. And her three sisters have ferciously denied any such abuse ever occuring. The body of the other baby which she claimed was buried in the back garden of the house was never recovered.

I'm not saying it didn't happen by the way, I have absolutely no way of knowing such a think, but I certainly wouldn't be sure what to believe. There seem to be an awful lot of unanswered questions surrounding the accusations.

It's a horrific story certainly. But is there a possibility that it is just that - A story?

Todays piece on RTE

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0309/dalkey.html

One sister is looking to squash the findings. The other two have dropped it.

JD24

JD24 wrote: »

One sister is looking to squash the findings. The other two have dropped it.

One sister with the support of another sister

The challenge to the inquest's verdict is being taken by her sister, Catherine Stevenson. It is being supported by another sister, Esther Roberts.

JD24

Deleted User wrote: »

I see that the sisters of Cythia Owen are looking to quash the findings of the the inquest which ruled that Cynthia Owen was infact the mother of the baby whose body was found in Dun Laoghaire in 1973.

There are an awful lot of disparities in the story in my opinion.

Noone was ever convicted of any abuse or murder. There was no medical or forensic evidence to suggest that the the baby was Cythia Owen's. And her three sisters have ferciously denied any such abuse ever occuring. The body of the other baby which she claimed was buried in the back garden of the house was never recovered.

I'm not saying it didn't happen by the way, I have absolutely no way of knowing such a think, but I certainly wouldn't be sure what to believe. There seem to be an awful lot of unanswered questions surrounding the accusations.

It's a horrific story certainly. But is there a possibility that it is just that - A story?

Todays piece on RTE

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0309/dalkey.html

One sister is looking to squash the findings. The other two have dropped it...

You dont seem to have all of the "story"

No one was ever convicted because of the passing of time and the lack of evidence. There was no evidence of any kind because the Gardai had "lost" the evidence. All the evidence containing all traces of DNA was lost and last handled by the same Garda who she is accusing of abusing her.

Three of her sisters have denied it however all her other siblings, excluding one brother (who she has accused) also back her version of events. One sister committed suicide leaving a 50 page diary detailing all of the abuse she suffered.

The body of the second baby has never been found and Gardai were fully aware before they carried out the search that after 30 years, bones of a baby exposed to the elements would not be found.

At the Inquest, neighbours, teachers and friends all gave evidence stating that the abuse was well known to have been carried out.

All of this was widely published at the hearing of the Inquest.