Feral teenage gangs - what can be done to protect us?

meditraitor

rovert wrote: »

Dublin City of God

or godot

spurious

ScumLord wrote: »

It's not just the parents fault, peer pressure has maybe more to do with it. If the community you grow up in calls you a scumbag and calls for you to be shot simply based on the clothes you and your friends wear it's no wonder they follow the ones that "are only having a bit of craic" (in their minds) This whole "their scumbags" attitude creates an atmosphere of hatred where you've two sides on polar opposite minds of view and no hope of reconciling the problem.

I'm sure your argument will be to throw it back at them but that just proves my point. Your doing nothing to help the problem, just pointing fingers.

What I am, or am not doing to 'help the problem', you don't know.
The same 'community' is well able to produce a teen who stays well out of the popular local night time activities. The difference is the parents.

None of those parents want their child to be a failing scummer, but they do not have the skills to make them anything else.

Too many parents today, often lone parents and often young, (though neither means an automatically inept parent) are too concerned with their kids liking them and being their mates to have time to actually parent them.
It's hard work and not everyone is up to it.

Personally, I believe the lack of a 'narky granny' (and I bet many of the older members here know exactly what I'm talking about) is a great loss to many kids. Sit up straight, don't interrupt when adults are speaking, don't talk with your mouth full, take your hands out of your trousers - that sort of thing.

dolliemix

whadabouchasir wrote: »

Then these Kids go to school and start causing trouble there and they get away with it.Why?Because there isn't an adquate system of punishment in place.this is true when these kids leave school as well.I'm not saying that corporal punishment is right,but at least in the 50's and 60's we didn't have teenagers assaulting people unprovoked and for no reason.

No, instead in the 50s and 60s we had adults assaulting children

aDeener

dolliemix wrote: »

No, instead in the 50s and 60s we had adults assaulting children

not on the streets with knives or baseball bats. nor was there any intimidation by groups of adults outside shops while you were walking past.

they went overboard in the schools alright, teachers today should be allowed use reasonable force against proper little brats. beating them to a pulp wouldnt be right but a good auld clip to the butt of the lug and it wont be long before they cop themselves on

Nevyn

Ciaran187 wrote: »

THAT'S the attitude. How can we abuse these little sh1ts?

The sad part is they are already abused.

Ciaran187 wrote: »

I'm sick of the young scum around. I think a lot of the younger ones are worse than the "settled" criminals.

Because they know they can and will get away with it.

Ciaran187 wrote: »

What I don't understand is if I let me dog out and he nips someone, he'd be taken off me. But if I had a kid that was out and beat someone within an inch of their life, nothing would be done.

There is not the community and socail services or the will to turn a lot of these kids around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FakvjuJWOLs

whadabouchasir wrote: »

Then these Kids go to school and start causing trouble there and they get away with it.Why?Because there isn't an adquate system of punishment in place.this is true when these kids leave school as well.I'm not saying that corporal punishment is right,but at least in the 50's and 60's we didn't have teenagers assaulting people unprovoked and for no reason.

It's lack of respect, plain and simple.

Nevyn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E1b_s9irUw

Ave Sodalis

spurious wrote: »

What I am, or am not doing to 'help the problem', you don't know.
The same 'community' is well able to produce a teen who stays well out of the popular local night time activities. The difference is the parents.

None of those parents want their child to be a failing scummer, but they do not have the skills to make them anything else.

Too many parents today, often lone parents and often young, (though neither means an automatically inept parent) are too concerned with their kids liking them and being their mates to have time to actually parent them.
It's hard work and not everyone is up to it.

Personally, I believe the lack of a 'narky granny' (and I bet many of the older members here know exactly what I'm talking about) is a great loss to many kids. Sit up straight, don't interrupt when adults are speaking, don't talk with your mouth full, take your hands out of your trousers - that sort of thing.

I have to disagree with a lot of that. It's only sometimes that the parents are at fault. I know a mother who has a teenager who is well behaved and never gets into trouble but the same mother also has a child who is as cheeky and disrespectful. It isnt the mothers fault. I know a mothers who try their hardest to be strict but their children don't listen to them and I also know mothers who are completely laid back and have very well behaved children.

You say they don't have the skills necessary, that is accusing a lot of parents of not being good parents.

I find those who are concerned with thier teenagers 'liking them' have a better relationship with their children then those who don't therefore find it easier to be listened to.

'Narky grannies' won't work. Respect would be lost if parents are forever harping on. Teenagers like to be independant.



It's not just teenagers though. Adults often form groups and have much worse concequences. The teenage gangs like the fear they create. Simply stop being afraid and walk past. If they stop you, just tell them to move out of the way and keep walking. Don't react the way they want you to.

ToniTuddle

spurious wrote: »

The difference is the parents.

None of those parents want their child to be a failing scummer, but they do not have the skills to make them anything else.

Some of these parents are good enough people in the sense that they provided a stable enough environment for the kids.
I know of quite a few lads who have gotten off with some serious dangerous driving and violence, just because their fathers are all best mates with a local Guard.

Plus the 17yr old who tried to slice my Lithuanian friends throat but nearly got me instead.....that would have amounted to assault or at the very least attempted assualt with a deadly weapon..however it is phrased.
Yet nothing ever happened when it was realised that the lad in question was the son of a local Guard.(different town to other paragraph)

Now I'm not giving out about Guards the majority of them do the best they can. But sometimes even they turn a blind eye to this carry on when it should be nipped in the bud then and there!

Is there not some act or law where they could have taken those teenagers into custody even for an hour or something?

Nevyn

spurious wrote: »

Too many parents today, often lone parents and often young, (though neither means an automatically inept parent) are too concerned with their kids liking them and being their mates to have time to actually parent them.
It's hard work and not everyone is up to it.

We have gone in a pretty short space of time from a nation where children were hit with belts and wooden spoons to not not physically punishing children and it's left a vacum and it's swung too much the other way so that giving out to a child and making them cry is seen as child abuse.

There should be parenting courses held in all primary school over the year and attendance to be mandatory.

spurious wrote: »

Personally, I believe the lack of a 'narky granny' (and I bet many of the older members here know exactly what I'm talking about) is a great loss to many kids. Sit up straight, don't interrupt when adults are speaking, don't talk with your mouth full, take your hands out of your trousers - that sort of thing.

It;s not just the narky granny, it's also the lack of the neighbor would give out to you and tell on your parents.

ToniTuddle

sup_dude wrote: »

Simply stop being afraid and walk past. If they stop you, just tell them to move out of the way and keep walking. Don't react the way they want you to.

You can't simply stop being afraid, not exactly easy.
I can just picture me telling a group of lads and girls who have stopped me and surrounding me to "move out of the way"....

You think they will let you past that easy once they have gone to the bother of stopping you in the first place...

ToniTuddle

Thaedydal wrote: »

There should be parenting courses held in all primary school over the year and attendance to be mandatory.

THIS is one the best ideas. Pay a heavy fine if they don't attend these classes.
Anyone who is having a child should attend them.

Nevyn

sup_dude wrote: »

You say they don't have the skills necessary, that is accusing a lot of parents of not being good parents.

Some of them aren't good parents, in some cases there are difficulties with the kid and difficult home circumstances but in a lot of cases it boils down to the parents.

sup_dude wrote: »

I find those who are concerned with thier teenagers 'liking them' have a better relationship with their children then those who don't therefore find it easier to be listened to.

Not if having your child like you is at the expense of them respecting you and you having any authority over them and that starts at the ages of 3 and 7 not 17.

sup_dude wrote: »

The teenage gangs like the fear they create. Simply stop being afraid and walk past. If they stop you, just tell them to move out of the way and keep walking. Don't react the way they want you to.

Ever done that and gotten egged or had a brick thrown at you?
I have and it's not something I would do with my kids with me.

dolliemix

aDeener wrote: »

not on the streets with knives or baseball bats. nor was there any intimidation by groups of adults outside shops while you were walking past.

they went overboard in the schools alright, teachers today should be allowed use reasonable force against proper little brats. beating them to a pulp wouldnt be right but a good auld clip to the butt of the lug and it wont be long before they cop themselves on

Some people don't know when to stop though. And children were abused in their homes as well.

We've just come out of a really dark age - we live in a country, where, for decades our most vulnerable children weren't protected as they should have been.

To be honest with you. I'm a secondary school teacher, if corporal punishment was allowed - there is no way I would lift a finger to any child. Its wrong full stop.

If a child sees an adult using violence or any physical means to correct them - they see that as the norm. They see that as a way of expressing anger because that's how their parents or teacher reacts when they're annoyed. And so the cycle goes on until it gets worse and worse.

Communication is the key. But teachers, parents, social workers have to be seen to be supporting each other. A lot of cases these days - parents don't trust teachers or social workers and communication breaks down so the poor kid doesn't have a chance.

neil_hosey

OnTheBalls wrote: »

Christ? The four apostles who spread christianity? I just can't see why something that happened two hundred years ago and is on par with fairytales can be seen to have relevance to our lives today. Not to mention the church has been reformed so much it is not what it originally was. Hence man changes it. Don't even get me started on protestantism.

i dont know what religion you believe in, but how will you know the people that are 'taking care' of your list will not consider you as one of those whose religion was created by man.

Unless this 'force' will be all members of your religion

Pacing Mule

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Tl;dr

Another too long don't read spout of wisdom. :rolleyes:

Why do you post that when 99% of people who use the default layout will already have read what you have decided is too long for them to read well before they get to your post ? The expression shutting the gate after the horse has bolted springs to mind.

ya-ba-da-ba-doo

There's a lot of generalizations going on here, stop tarring all Irish teenagers with the same brush.

ScumLord

spurious wrote: »

What I am, or am not doing to 'help the problem', you don't know.
The same 'community' is well able to produce a teen who stays well out of the popular local night time activities. The difference is the parents.

None of those parents want their child to be a failing scummer, but they do not have the skills to make them anything else.

Too many parents today, often lone parents and often young, (though neither means an automatically inept parent) are too concerned with their kids liking them and being their mates to have time to actually parent them.
It's hard work and not everyone is up to it.

It was just that your post creates more conflict, instead of offering solutions your setting the next generation as your sworn enemy and it's just not smart to go to war with the next generation as it's a battle you'll always lose. I know this is after hours and everything but this kind of language just contributes to ensuring there'll never be any type of resolution.

I'll stick by what I said when it comes to the parents, it's not just their fault. Human children and their parents rely on a community of people to raise their children.
Human parents share the responsibility of parenthood much more than any of the other primates. A chimp will not share the responsibility of parenthood and their child will cling to them until it's ready to fend for itself. This is a fundamental difference and part of human development and there's nothing to be gained from ignoring it.

It takes a community to raise a child, I know plenty of single mothers in this town that are raising perfectly normal children because they have the constant support of their family, friends and neighbours. I'm not at all surprised single mothers completely alone in their community are unable to put manners on their children.

partyatmygaff

There are a lot of decent teens around and they despise scumbags equally as much as anyone else. In general from what I can see there are two types or levels if you can call it that of scum. There's the type that come from a normal area who just chose to act like scumbags or have scumbag friends and usually have parents who don't care about what they do, the worst they will do is graffiti and maybe even assault but they generally stop acting like scumbags when they're around 18 or so, the ones that still act like scumbags usually end up scumbags for life. Then there's the other type who are born to scumbag parents who don't care about them in any way. They are the type that travel in packs and harass anyone they see, they're more likely to steal and assault people and they're the type of people that need to be dealt with.

neil_hosey

partyatmygaff wrote: »

There are a lot of decent teens around and they despise scumbags equally as much as anyone else. In general from what I can see there are two types or levels if you can call it that of scum. There's the type that come from a normal area who just chose to act like scumbags or have scumbag friends and usually have parents who don't care about what they do, the worst they will do is graffiti and maybe even assault but they generally stop acting like scumbags when they're around 18 or so, the ones that still act like scumbags usually end up scumbags for life. Then there's the other type who are born to scumbag parents who don't care about them in any way. They are the type that travel in packs and harass anyone they see, they're more likely to steal and assault people and they're the type of people that need to be dealt with.

Agree totally.

Sofiztikated

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Another too long don't read spout of wisdom. :rolleyes:

Why do you post that when 99% of people who use the default layout will already have read what you have decided is too long for them to read well before they get to your post ? The expression shutting the gate after the horse has bolted springs to mind.

You want to complain about the fact a few people got in with replies in half an hour, yet you bring it up 34 hours, and in standard layout as you brought it up, 10 pages later. Your own post is, in fact shutting the gate on the wrong field.

Also, tl;dr is also commonly used as Too Long; DIDN'T read, not don't read.

aDeener

ya-ba-da-ba-doo wrote: »

There's a lot of generalizations going on here, stop tarring all Irish teenagers with the same brush.

no one is tarring all irish teenagers with the same brush. scumbag is not the same thing as teenager although quiet a high proportion of scumbags are teenagers.

CianRyan

The only trouble I ever get is from adults...

Just putting that out there.

CCCP^

100% Parent's Fault.

We need Abortion to be legalized. Studies have shown in the US that when Abortion became legal and available the crime rate down the years fell. The truth is people have kids and don't give a **** about them. They have no empathy.

koHd

CCCP^ wrote: »

100% Parent's Fault.

We need Abortion to be legalized. Studies have shown in the US that when Abortion became legal and available the crime rate down the years fell. The truth is people have kids and don't give a **** about them. They have no empathy.

I was about to post the same thing. I hate abortion and have been againt it in the past. But if it being legal meant some horrible scumbag won't bring a child into the world they won't care for or teach decent morals, I'll easilly be pro abortion. Obviously it's not the one stop solution. There's plenty of learning for society to do before we're finally rid of this element. I hope in 100 years time people look back in shock at the existence of this element of society and wonder how we didn't know the simple steps to prevent them.

Borneo Fnctn

I don't have any prejudice towards teenagers but I know a dirtbag when I see one. Not every young male with a tracksuit is one.

koHd

Borneo Fnctn wrote: »

I don't have any prejudice towards teenagers but I know a dirtbag when I see one. Not every young male with a tracksuit is one.

Yea. And scumbags don't magically stop being scumbags once they're 20...or 30...or bloody 50! They're all ages. It's just the teenage ones tend to hang around in groups on the street more. So people notice them more.

Neonjack

As I see it, they have no notion of boundaries. They push all the time to see what they can get away with, and the longer that's allowed to continue, the worse they become. Fair enough, old codgers have been grouching about kids for centuries, but it's getting out of hand. There's a big difference between kids in the 50's robbing an orchard or having a smoke behind a shed and modern kids setting someone's car on fire or attacking people at the bus stop. At least when your ould lad gave you a clatter, you knew you'd gone too far. The same applied if your teacher or the local cop did it. You learned where the boundaries were. It wasn't perfect by any means and it was horribly abused at times, but it was a system that worked for centuries. Things have gotten progressively worse since it stopped. I don't know what the answer is, but it seems to me that a clip round the ear when it's needed does more good for these kids in the long run than all the social programs put together.

dsmythy

CCCP^ wrote: »

100% Parent's Fault.

We need Abortion to be legalized. Studies have shown in the US that when Abortion became legal and available the crime rate down the years fell. The truth is people have kids and don't give a **** about them. They have no empathy.

God forbid we ever try and teach them personal responsibility instead!

ScumLord

CCCP^ wrote: »

100% Parent's Fault.

We need Abortion to be legalized. Studies have shown in the US that when Abortion became legal and available the crime rate down the years fell. The truth is people have kids and don't give a **** about them. They have no empathy.

As a species we need more abortions. It really has gotten to the stage where there should be some sort of licence involved in having a child. Not just to weed out the undesirables (which is wrong apparently) but to control population.

Pete M.

dsmythy wrote: »

God forbid we ever try and teach them personal responsibility instead!

hahahahahahahaha

Funny, as if trying to teach them personal responsibility would be more effective than the abortion suggestion.

They do after all have a sense of personal responsibility i.e don't get caught, take everything for yourself and make sure you're alright at the expense of others.