Tri related splish splash notes

griffin100

Enjoy the weekend lads. Ive a nice 2k open water swim sunday to look forward to - there'll be nothing scientific about that one - get in, swim as hard as I can, get out and into pre-heated car.

Good luck. I thought about doing this when I seen your orginal post on the events thread but I its my birthday over the weekend and I'm likely to be non compus mentus on sunday morning and I dont fancy falling asleep in water that cold:)

shotgunmcos

Good luck interested let us know how it goes*


goes* = what distance you win by

interested

griffin100 wrote: »

Good luck. I thought about doing this when I seen your orginal post on the events thread but I its my birthday over the weekend and I'm likely to be non compus mentus on sunday morning and I dont fancy falling asleep in water that cold:)

Thing about 'falling asleep' in water that cold is that its probably not to do with tiredness and more to do with hypothermia and you definitely wont be waking up.
Congrats on the birthday champ !

interested

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Good luck interested let us know how it goes*


goes* = what distance you win by

Death by 1,000 icecreams - there wont be any winners.

pgibbo

Good luck with the OW swim this weekend interested. Fair play to you for getting in for a 2k swim this time of year. Brrrrrrr.....

interested

27/03/10

1000 assorted freestyle

At the NAC early saturday helping a friend with some stroke work. Met an old face I knew a lifetime ago. First Irishman to make an Olympic swimming final from what I know - summer games at Montreal. Firmly screwed up any chance of having a descent handicap during summer open water swims

interested

28/03/10

2k open water swim at Rush

The good: it was sunny and I wasnt in work and its a very worthy cause
The bad: For the first 50 metres I literally couldnt breath - I was doing all the right things but my face was stinging it was so cold. After that I felt my hands and feet were someone elses they were so far removed from actually feeling them.
The ugly: hobbling to the car across a car park with a pair of dead feet trying not to cry cause of the cold. Did I mention it was cold.


All references to the cold aside, this is a great first swim of the season. It gives purpose to the first swim in the OW which you kinda need in order to face it after a winter of swimming pools. Not sure of an exact time for this but it was sub 20 - there was alot less flow this year and alot more chop so happy enough with this.

Great to see Metal-Dog and a couple of others from the tri club strutting their stuff in neoprene this early in the season as well. Scarily there were about 10 hardcore swimmers without suits yesterday who deserve alot of respect.

interested

29/03/10

1000 f/s warm up
10 * 100 f/s pull with paddles on 1.25
200 easy swim down

2200
Strong set of 100's despite feeling pretty tired after the weekend.

El Director

Thganks for the reply last week interested, interesting points! hope the ow swim went well!

interested

no worries, still defrosting feet.

mloc123

Quick question for you, if you don't mind..

How much difference does a wetsuit make when it comes to pace? I will need to estimate OW swim times soon and I am wondering where to place myself. I know that its not as simple as saying x% when you take into accounts all the extras of getting lost, waves etc..

Is swimming in the pool with a pull bhoy(and kicking) the best estimate?

interested

mloc123 wrote: »

I know that its not as simple as saying x% when you take into accounts all the extras of getting lost, waves etc..
...

Is swimming in the pool with a pull bhoy(and kicking) the best estimate?

Hmmm, hell of a question mloc123 - and the answer wont be exact as you'd imagine. Is the estimate you'll have to give for a triathlon or open water swimming ? either way it wont really matter all that much.

Most wetsuits are designed to cater for the middle of the pack swimmers and provide serious buoyancy, raising their hips and making it alot easy to be on top of the water when swimming. What % this translates to in speed can depend on the swimmer. If a swimmer in a pool rarely uses their legs and leverages their arms alot to power through the water then they're likely to have a higher % gain from wearing a wetsuit than someone that has a better body position but is slightly weaker in the upper body.

For OW estimates based on your pool time Id add 10% - this is a % off the top of my head that Id give based on potential swim conditions (tides, currents, wind, navigation etc) and the fact that I know Ive reasonable upper body strength and experience in the sea.

For other swimmers the difference between 1000 metres in the pool and 1000 metres in open water the % difference could be greater.

Not sure if this helps at all but one thing to bear in mind is that its very rare swim courses in triathlons are the full advertised distance. Organisers want people to come back to their race and for many the swim is the greatest challenge of the 3 sports so ...

shotgunmcos

well done on 'surviving' the swim at the weekend. Were you one of the mad 10 with no wetsuits? sub20 for 2k :eek: I'm assuming a tide or flow of some sort behind ye?

interested

shotgunmcos wrote: »

well done on 'surviving' the swim at the weekend. Were you one of the mad 10 with no wetsuits?

Not on your life or mine ... I think swimming without a suit in March in Irish water is for people who swim all year round. The shock'd kill ya I reckon.

sub20 for 2k :eek: I'm assuming a tide or flow of some sort behind ye?

Yeah, theres a serious tidal flow for the long section of this swim but there was also alot of chop (not really waves, more choppy stuff from the wind and the fact it was high tide). The support RNLI boats also deposited that familiar diesel taste in the water as they moved about.

interested

29/03/10 PM Long course

400 f/s warm up
8 * 150 f/s pull with paddles on 2.10
4 * 200 f/s on 3.10
6 * 100 f/s on 1.30
200 easy swim down

3200

Strong set of 150's. Had to push the 200's and 100's to make the times in the long course pool. Tired after the weekend. Left shoulder a little tender so no paddles for a few days at least.

interested

30/03/10

1000 f/s warm up
10 * 100's f/s stroke work on 1.45
alternating ripple/catchup/swim


2000

Tired as hell this morning so backed off a little and did some stroke work.

El Director

hey interested, after my last post i noticed u had already updated you blog re the OW swim. Incredible time just incredible!

i am pretty sure that at the moment i have got my stoke pretty good, nice and long and strong and relaxed. The problem is the stroke breaks down in longer swims, even if it is over 500m. any advice? me be thinking that i just have to just stick at it.

Cheers!

interested

El Director wrote: »

hey interested, after my last post i noticed u had already updated you blog re the OW swim. Incredible time just incredible!

Downhill swim with the tide and being pushed along due to fear of hypothermia to be honest ... but thanks

i am pretty sure that at the moment i have got my stoke pretty good, nice and long and strong and relaxed. The problem is the stroke breaks down in longer swims, even if it is over 500m. any advice? me be thinking that i just have to just stick at it.
Cheers!

Good stuff and congrats with the stroke work. My advice is to keep working on your swim fitness. As in, instead of long comfortable swimming - shorter sets ... like 2 * (5 * 100's) at a faster pace .... 80% perceived effort whilst trying to keep your stroke. Like all the sports my advice would be to get as much as you can from each session. If you can {swim|bike|run} 3 times a week then one long swim - concentrating on your form - one shorter pacy'er swim consisting of sets of 100's or 200's and even one session where you do say 60% stroke work and 40% sprints with enough rest to ensure you're actually sprinting.

As the good weather (?) comes in triathletes tend to spend less and less time in pools or swimming in general. Its really noticable in pools at certain times of the year ...

Keeping your head steady and in the right position and keeping your stroke long ... as you tire is key obviously ... but so is sighting when it comes to the open water. Improving your swim fitness (whilst sacrificing time spent running and biking) can be tricky for alot of people - but inevitably my advice is spend some more time in the pool out of your comfort zone at or above race pace - your fitness will improve and you'll hold your stroke for longer.

I blasted a set of 8 * 150's pull long course the other day and tweaked my shoulder cause I was wearing paddles ... you'd think Id know better after all my warnings to people ... but imho its necessary to push things alot to improve ...

Hope some of this helps chief
Enjoy the weekend

El Director

thanks man, sound advice and confirms what i was thinking actually. Naas tomor, second duathlon of the season, should be interesting after a rest/easy week and time in Poland drinking!

interested

08/04/10

2000 straight f/s
200 swim down


2200

Hadnt been in the water for just over a week so needed this long swim to get a feel for the water again.

interested

09/04/10

1000 f/s warm up
12 * 100 f/s on 1.30
200 easy swim down

2400

First set looking at the clock in a week and all was well. Descent set of 100's. Comfortable throughout holding 1.25 or so. Still feel like Ive no speed but softly softly and all ...

interested

13/04/10

1500 f/s warm up
8 * 100 f/s pull with paddles on 1.30
200 easy

2500

Felt very heavy in the water this morning. No swim for a few days and tiredness from the audax on Sunday to blame I suspect. Still, wont be as bad when I get to the pool next.

interested

13/04/2010 PM

500 f/s warm up
2 * 400 f/s on 6
3 * 300 f/s on 4.30
4 * 200 f/s on 3
5 * 100 f/s on 1.30
4 * 200 f/s on 3
200 swim down

4500

Id been for a quick run before this so was conscious of cramps during this session - in other words I doing enough to make the times with around 10 seconds rest and little else. Good long session.

interested

14/04/2010

1000 f/s warm up
4 * 100's IM on 1.45
100 f/s easy

1500

Paid dearly for not eating after swim last night and not getting to bed early enough. Drained this morning and as a result 10 * 100/s IM turned into 4 with a swim down and early shower.

interested

16/04/10

1000 f/s warm up
2 * (4 * 100 f/s on 1.45 desc 1-4, 100 f/s active rest on 2)
300 easy

2300

Still sluggish but need to pick up the pace a little with the sprint season almost upon us.
1st set of 100's: 82, 78, 76, 73 - felt pretty crap
2nd set of 100's: 80, 75, 74, 72 - felt a little better

In truth all of these should under 75 and the fastest ones around 65 or under so not a great result. Based on just these 2 sets though its pretty clear the long slow stuff over the winter must now be complimented a couple of times a week with pacy stuff - sets of 50's with reasonable rest.

Anyhow, the sun is shining and its a friday ...

interested

19/04/10

1000 f/s warm up
5 * 200's f/s on 3
6 * 50's alt fast, active rest on 60

2300

Slow to warm up / wake up again - set of 200's were around normal pace. Fast 50's need to get faster - although I felt better / went faster on 3rd 50.

interested

20/04/10

2000 f/s straight
200 stroke

2200

Not enough rest recently so just fancied a swim this morning. No clock work.

interested

20/04/10 PM

500 f/s warm up
8 * 100 f/s on 1.30
4 * 150 f/s on 2.15
4 * 200 f/s on 3
4 * 150 f/s on 2.15
8 * 100 f/s on 1.30
100 easy
4 * 50 f/s on 60 - 25 @ 100% with turn / 25 easy

4400

Good long session all about pace. Was still warming up through the first set of 100's but was more focused on 200's and last set of 100's.
Trying to get some speed at the end with 25 on / 25 off.

interested

24/04/10

1500 ow swim - still freezing - but tides were perfect and very early in the morning so the light was nice - real reminder how fortunate we are sometimes to have the time and health to simply for for a swim. Thankfully beach was clear so no witnesses to see my agonizing stutter back to the car park whilst trying to walk on ice feet mental note, bring some flip flops.

interested

26/04/10

1000 f/s warm up

4 * 50 IM order on 60
4 * 50 f/s on 60 desc
4 * 50 IM order on 60
4 * 50 f/s on 60 desc
4 * 50 IM order on 60

100 easy

2100

Switching between strokes and pace is designed to make me think about going faster and my body learning to switch between different muscle groups. I should have been doing these sessions a while ago based on how I feel.
Anyhow ... race week ... so time to starting actually going faster instead of talking about it.