Islam, inter-faith marriage & raising kids

immaterial7

Hi,

I, a muslim, am considering marriage to a bahai (religious view is they have come AFTER islam with a new religion). I have been told by all islamic scholars and imams that this marriage is not permitted by islam. and this would be a grave sin. And that i am endangering my afterlife (ie going to hell) if i were to marry this person.

What concerns me more, though is the potential difficulties of having children with this lady in the future in an interfaith marriage where both parents are somewhat practising. Rasing them exclusively as muslim would not be fair on her (since her faith means alot to her and she would be mother of the kids) even though i believe it to be a true path. thats not to say that i think she is going to hell and we have had some conversations around upbringing of kids.

I guess i am looking for any input from people in a mixed faith background and whether these marriages do work - there are sooo many difficulties and our relationship is perfect (as perfect can be- we have know each other for many years) aside from when i consider opening up my children to being raised in 2 faiths. I of course would bring them up muslim, but my partner would also want to instill in them bahai practice - thus my questions really are as follows:
1- what is the islamic view on rearing children in an inter faith marriage where the partner is a post-islamic religion???
2- are there people out there that have inter faith marriages? and how if rasing children in both have you managed it??
3- are u not concerned that ure acutally influencing by agreeing to let ure child grow up practising 2 faiths that they may acutally reject ure faith and choose another / no faith? how do u PRACTICALLY raise a child in both? is it even possible???

any input will be much appreciated.

thanks all

Bottle_of_Smoke

I have been told by all islamic scholars and imams that this marriage is not permitted by islam. and this would be a grave sin. And that i am endangering my afterlife (ie going to hell) if i were to marry this person.

I'm guessing these guys are gonna be right tbh. As far as I know you can only marry "people of the book" - Christians/Jews, and obviously other Muslims. Female Muslims can only marry other Muslims

irishconvert

immaterial7 wrote: »

Hi,

I, a muslim, am considering marriage to a bahai (religious view is they have come AFTER islam with a new religion). I have been told by all islamic scholars and imams that this marriage is not permitted by islam. and this would be a grave sin. And that i am endangering my afterlife (ie going to hell) if i were to marry this person.

What concerns me more, though is the potential difficulties of having children with this lady in the future in an interfaith marriage where both parents are somewhat practising. Rasing them exclusively as muslim would not be fair on her (since her faith means alot to her and she would be mother of the kids) even though i believe it to be a true path. thats not to say that i think she is going to hell and we have had some conversations around upbringing of kids.

I guess i am looking for any input from people in a mixed faith background and whether these marriages do work - there are sooo many difficulties and our relationship is perfect (as perfect can be- we have know each other for many years) aside from when i consider opening up my children to being raised in 2 faiths. I of course would bring them up muslim, but my partner would also want to instill in them bahai practice - thus my questions really are as follows:
1- what is the islamic view on rearing children in an inter faith marriage where the partner is a post-islamic religion???

I think the Imams and Scholars you have questioned have already answered this, as you said above.

immaterial7 wrote: »

2- are there people out there that have inter faith marriages? and how if rasing children in both have you managed it??

I'm sure it would involve comprmise on both sides. Are you willing to comprmise on aspects of Islam. Can you give us an idea of what kind of things you would be expected to compromise on? Are these compromises going to cause conflict between your wife and you?

immaterial7 wrote: »

3- are u not concerned that ure acutally influencing by agreeing to let ure child grow up practising 2 faiths that they may acutally reject ure faith and choose another / no faith? how do u PRACTICALLY raise a child in both? is it even possible???

I think it will be confusing for the child. I am not familiar with the bahai faith, but if they have teachings which conflict with Islamic teaching then you are asking for trouble.

Mark Hamill

immaterial7 wrote: »

Hi,

I, a muslim, am considering marriage to a bahai (religious view is they have come AFTER islam with a new religion). I have been told by all islamic scholars and imams that this marriage is not permitted by islam. and this would be a grave sin. And that i am endangering my afterlife (ie going to hell) if i were to marry this person.

What concerns me more, though is the potential difficulties of having children with this lady in the future in an interfaith marriage where both parents are somewhat practising. Rasing them exclusively as muslim would not be fair on her (since her faith means alot to her and she would be mother of the kids) even though i believe it to be a true path. thats not to say that i think she is going to hell and we have had some conversations around upbringing of kids.

I guess i am looking for any input from people in a mixed faith background and whether these marriages do work - there are sooo many difficulties and our relationship is perfect (as perfect can be- we have know each other for many years) aside from when i consider opening up my children to being raised in 2 faiths. I of course would bring them up muslim, but my partner would also want to instill in them bahai practice - thus my questions really are as follows:
1- what is the islamic view on rearing children in an inter faith marriage where the partner is a post-islamic religion???
2- are there people out there that have inter faith marriages? and how if rasing children in both have you managed it??
3- are u not concerned that ure acutally influencing by agreeing to let ure child grow up practising 2 faiths that they may acutally reject ure faith and choose another / no faith? how do u PRACTICALLY raise a child in both? is it even possible???

any input will be much appreciated.

thanks all

You know, you could break the mold, so to speak, and just bring up your children to think for themselves and choose their own religion. The way I see it, is that you obviously dont think there is anything in your partners faith that makes her a bad person, hence you love them (and vice-versa) so it should be no problem to the both of you to bring up your children as good people, all the while allowing them to make their own decisions on what religion to become. If you think about it, they would be better muslims (or bahai, or whatever they end up as) if they freely choose it rather than being indoctrinated into it from birth.

oceanclub

Mark Hamill wrote: »

You know, you could break the mold, so to speak, and just bring up your children to think for themselves and choose their own religion. The way I see it, is that you obviously dont think there is anything in your partners faith that makes her a bad person, hence you love them (and vice-versa) so it should be no problem to the both of you to bring up your children as good people, all the while allowing them to make their own decisions on what religion to become. If you think about it, they would be better muslims (or bahai, or whatever they end up as) if they freely choose it rather than being indoctrinated into it from birth.

*thinks*

BURN THE HERETIC!

P.

philologos

Mark Hamill wrote: »

You know, you could break the mold, so to speak, and just bring up your children to think for themselves and choose their own religion. The way I see it, is that you obviously dont think there is anything in your partners faith that makes her a bad person, hence you love them (and vice-versa) so it should be no problem to the both of you to bring up your children as good people, all the while allowing them to make their own decisions on what religion to become. If you think about it, they would be better muslims (or bahai, or whatever they end up as) if they freely choose it rather than being indoctrinated into it from birth.

Mark, do you think it's really appropriate to bring your agenda into a thread about a serious Islamic concern?

I mean I don't personally think the OP will go to hell for marrying this woman, but differing value systems can make it difficult to raise children even if we are leaving aside the issue of Islamic scholars, and Islamic theology.

Zaynzma

oceanclub wrote: »

*thinks*

BURN THE HERETIC!

P.

I think you're getting your religions mixed up - Christianity is the only religion with a history of burning heretics.

The Recliner

oceanclub wrote: »

*thinks*

BURN THE HERETIC!

P.

Zaynzma wrote: »

I think you're getting your religions mixed up - Christianity is the only religion with a history of burning heretics.

Can we keep this on topic please

Post like this are unhelpful and not what was asked for in the OP

Any further posts like this will be met with bannings

doctoremma

Jakkass wrote: »

Mark, do you think it's really appropriate to bring your agenda into a thread about a serious Islamic concern?

I mean I don't personally think the OP will go to hell for marrying this woman, but differing value systems can make it difficult to raise children even if we are leaving aside the issue of Islamic scholars, and Islamic theology.

Sorry to jump in but: If there is a serious clash of value systems, maybe it's fairest to teach both or neither. However, I seriously doubt that the values of the OP clash radically with those of his wife in terms of being generous, polite, respectful etc. That's as much as any of us would hope to instil in a child?

philologos

I'm merely saying I can understand why in Islam it would be forbidden or advised to marry someone of similar values, if nor the same values. The OP is asking a question as to how he as a Muslim should deal with his situation.

In your atheist viewpoint, there is little consequence if someone chooses belief A over belief B, but from an Islamic viewpoint there is. There is also the believe that an Islamic path is best for the child.

While not Muslim, if I put the Muslim hat on for a second I can see where the Islamic scholars are coming from.

Zaynzma

Jakkass wrote: »

I mean I don't personally think the OP will go to hell for marrying this woman

Islamic scholars would never say that someone will 'go to hell' for marrying someone whom God has forbidden them to marry.

The OP says he was told marrying this woman would 'endanger his afterlife'. Of course in Islam he would be committing a sin by marrying her, as he is disobeying God. However it doesn't automatically follow that he would go to hell. God is the forgiver of sins, He forgives wherever He wills and it's not for us to say "God won't forgive him for that and will send him to hell for it".

It may be that living intimately with someone whose beliefs are contradictory to Islam will weaken this man's faith and he will fall away from the straight path entirely, or become a disbeliever (authu billah). In this way his marriage could lead to him going to hell which is probably why the scholars say you are 'endangering your afterlife' by committing sin rather than say 'you will go to hell'.

I'm sorry I'm a bit pedantic but Jakkass made it sound like a Muslim automatically goes to hell for marrying a person forbidden in marriage and that is not necessarily the case.

philologos

Zaynzma: Read the OP -

have been told by all islamic scholars and imams that this marriage is not permitted by islam. and this would be a grave sin. And that i am endangering my afterlife (ie going to hell) if i were to marry this person.

Were the scholars who told him this wrong?

Zaynzma wrote: »

It may be that living intimately with someone whose beliefs are contradictory to Islam will weaken this man's faith and he will fall away from the straight path entirely, or become a disbeliever (authu billah). In this way his marriage could lead to him going to hell which is probably why the scholars say you are 'endangering your afterlife' by committing sin rather than say 'you will go to hell'.

I can understand this from my own Christian view. The Israelites were forbidden to marry people who were foreign to their group of people after the time of Moses unless they were willing to conform to Jewish standards. In some cases marriages outside of the Jewish faith or the form of it that they had at the time were discouraged entirely due to the risk of mixing the faith that God had revealed them with pagan practices.

Although if we are going to accept the People of the Book claim, why is it better for a Muslim to marry a Christian than for a Muslim to marry a Bahai?

Christians are encouraged to tell their spouses about their faith:

1 Corinthians 7:16 wrote:

For how do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

I am just curious on this issue.

Zaynzma

Jakkass wrote: »

Zaynzma: Read the OP -


Were the scholars who told him this wrong?

Yes if it was them who said "ie going to hell" and not the OP's own comment. No person scholar or otherwise can say to another "you are going to hell for this". Judgement belongs to God.

We are told that there is one sin that God won't forgive (without repentance) and that is 'shirk' which is (my paraphrase but you can look it up for fuller explanation if you like) worshipping other than God alone. Every other sin can be forgiven, with or without repentance.

philologos

Zaynzma wrote: »

Yes if it was them who said "ie going to hell" and not the OP's own comment. No person scholar or otherwise can say to another "you are going to hell for this". Judgement belongs to God.

We are told that there is one sin that God won't forgive (without repentance) and that is 'shirk' which is (my paraphrase but you can look it up for fuller explanation if you like) worshipping other than God alone. Every other sin can be forgiven, with or without repentance.

How can anyone know if they are saved or not according to an Islamic viewpoint? Can they know or are we all unsure about where we are going?

irishconvert

Mark Hamill wrote: »

You know, you could break the mold, so to speak, and just bring up your children to think for themselves and choose their own religion. The way I see it, is that you obviously dont think there is anything in your partners faith that makes her a bad person, hence you love them (and vice-versa) so it should be no problem to the both of you to bring up your children as good people, all the while allowing them to make their own decisions on what religion to become. If you think about it, they would be better muslims (or bahai, or whatever they end up as) if they freely choose it rather than being indoctrinated into it from birth.

Hi Mark,

This forum is intended for Muslims to discuss their faith. Your post is unhelpful and does not address any of the concerns raised by the OP. Can you please refrain from posting again on this issue?

Thanks.

irishconvert

Jakkass wrote: »

How can anyone know if they are saved or not according to an Islamic viewpoint? Can they know or are we all unsure about where we are going?

You do not know for sure until the day of judgement.

philologos

irishconvert wrote: »

You do not know for sure until the day of judgement.

Apologies if this question is unacceptable, I hope it isn't, but doesn't this mean that one is doing good deeds so they won't go to hell instead of glorifying God? (N.B - I'm just trying to compare the Islamic viewpoint of salvation with the Christian one)

Would it be fair to say at the end of it all, in the Islamic concept of it, God puts your sins and your good deeds on a weighing scales to determine if the good outweighs the bad?

Zaynzma

Jakkass wrote: »

Although if we are going to accept the People of the Book claim, why is it better for a Muslim to marry a Christian than for a Muslim to marry a Bahai?

Christians are encouraged to tell their spouses about their faith:


I am just curious on this issue.

I am not too familiar with the Bahai faith but apparently they are 'innovators' who have introduced a new element to the Islamic faith - I think they believe in another prophet/messenger coming after Muhammad pbuh when Islam plainly says that Muhammad pbuh is the final messenger. Possibly this issue of 'innovating' is what makes them beyond the pale.

It's an interesting question but not one which I have an answer for.

irishconvert

To the original poster, I have been reading up on Bahai faith and I have to agree with the opinion you have received from the Imams and scholars who advised you. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) stated that there would be no other prophets after him, yet Bahai's believe in another prophet after Muhammad (PBUH). As you are aware innovation and introducing new things to Islam is a very serious sin. I would be very worried about this situation if I was you.

irishconvert

Jakkass wrote: »

Apologies if this question is unacceptable, I hope it isn't, but doesn't this mean that one is doing good deeds so they won't go to hell instead of glorifying God? (N.B - I'm just trying to compare the Islamic viewpoint of salvation with the Christian one)

One of our main reasons for existance is to worship Allah. We do good deeds to please him.

Jakkass wrote: »

Would it be fair to say at the end of it all, in the Islamic concept of it, God puts your sins and your good deeds on a weighing scales to determine if the good outweighs the bad?

I think that is a fair statement to make. The point though is that Allah decides the weight of each deed, so we never know for sure if the good deeds we do will be enough. Only Allah knows.

Zaynzma

Jakkass wrote: »

Apologies if this question is unacceptable, I hope it isn't, but doesn't this mean that one is doing good deeds so they won't go to hell instead of glorifying God? (N.B - I'm just trying to compare the Islamic viewpoint of salvation with the Christian one)

Would it be fair to say at the end of it all, in the Islamic concept of it, God puts your sins and your good deeds on a weighing scales to determine if the good outweighs the bad?

God looks at our hearts and our intentions. There is a saying of the prophet pbuh "actions are judged (by God) by intentions".

On the other hand, if a person gets through life without committing any major sin and genuinely repenting for any minor transgressions (whether through fear of hell or not), and furthermore manages to do some good deeds along the way, why shouldn't they get to paradise? It seems a bit churlish of us to whine "but he only did it cos he was afraid of going to hell, not for the glory of God".

God is the knower of hearts and He will judge us for our actions and our intentions, and how exactly He measures the good and the bad is known only to him. It's not a simple mathematical equation. There are many narrations in Islamic scripture about forgiveness - for example, the prostitute whose sins were all forgiven because she showed mercy to an animal.

We know that God is The Most Merciful and The One Who Loves to Forgive (2 of his titles) so we do our best and rely on His mercy for the rest.

philologos

irishconvert wrote: »

One of our main reasons for existance is to worship Allah. We do good deeds to please him.

I think that is a fair statement to make. The point though is that Allah decides the weight of each deed, so we never know for sure if the good deeds we do will be enough. Only Allah knows.

I'd love to ask you more about this post as it's radically different to what I have come to know, but I don't think it's fair to the OP right now. I thank you all for being cordial as usual and dealing with my questions.

OP - I hope you find a solution to your problem.

Mark Hamill

Jakkass wrote: »

Mark, do you think it's really appropriate to bring your agenda into a thread about a serious Islamic concern?

What agenda? What I have suggested will make the kids the most honest believers they could possibly be, regardless of what they end up believing. Surely thats the most important thing.

Jakkass wrote: »

I mean I don't personally think the OP will go to hell for marrying this woman, but differing value systems can make it difficult to raise children even if we are leaving aside the issue of Islamic scholars, and Islamic theology.

Hasn't stopped him from loving this woman, so I dont see how it should be a problem with the kids.

irishconvert

Mark Hamill wrote: »

What agenda? What I have suggested will make the kids the most honest believers they could possibly be, regardless of what they end up believing. Surely thats the most important thing.


Hasn't stopped him from loving this woman, so I dont see how it should be a problem with the kids.

Mark, if you want to finish this discussion with Jackass, take it to PM or another forum. I have already asked you not to contribute to this discussion. The OP is looking for opinions from Muslims.

Mark Hamill

Jakkass wrote: »

I'm merely saying I can understand why in Islam it would be forbidden or advised to marry someone of similar values, if nor the same values. The OP is asking a question as to how he as a Muslim should deal with his situation.

Jakkass wrote: »

In your atheist viewpoint, there is little consequence if someone chooses belief A over belief B, but from an Islamic viewpoint there is. There is also the believe that an Islamic path is best for the child.

But if the only reason someone "chooses" belief A over belief B is that it was the only belief system they where allowed encountered in their formative years, then its hardly a choice, is it? Now, if all that really matters is that people call themselves muslim, and actual free-will choice is irrelevent, then why not just call everyone muslim?

Mark Hamill

irishconvert wrote: »

Hi Mark,

This forum is intended for Muslims to discuss their faith. Your post is unhelpful and does not address any of the concerns raised by the OP. Can you please refrain from posting again on this issue?

Thanks.

One of the issues raised by the OP is with the problems of raising children in an interfaith relationship, I think my post is most helpful as it details the benefits one of the OPs possible options (The OP has four choices with raising his kids: with his beliefs; with her beliefs; a mix of what is not contradictory; or none).
In what way do you see it as unhelpful?

Mark Hamill

irishconvert wrote: »

Mark, if you want to finish this discussion with Jackass, take it to PM or another forum. I have already asked you not to contribute to this discussion. The OP is looking for opinions from Muslims.

An opinion is valid based on its own content, not the beliefs of whoever is expressing it. One of the OPs questions was about raising kids in an interfaith relationship, surely he expects opinions from people of other faiths.

philologos

Mark it was about interfaith relationships, from an Islamic context, not from a secular one.

oceanclub

Jakkass wrote: »

Mark it was about interfaith relationships, from an Islamic context, not from a secular one.

The original poster said:

"I guess i am looking for any input from people in a mixed faith background and whether these marriages do work"

P.

irishconvert

Ok, let me make this perfectly clear, the OP is asking the question from an Islamic perspective, that is why he is has posted in the Islam forum. I don't want to see anymore posts that don't respond from an Islamic perspective, i.e. taking Islamic rules and teaching into account when advising the OP. Anyone who ignores this request will be banned.

JazakAllah.

PDN

Mark Hamill wrote: »

An opinion is valid based on its own content, not the beliefs of whoever is expressing it. One of the OPs questions was about raising kids in an interfaith relationship, surely he expects opinions from people of other faiths.

So which faith do you belong to?