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The End of Time Part 2 - Spoilers

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  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Don't forget the genesis ark.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,685 ✭✭✭✭BlitzKrieg


    The gui on the computer systems were dreadful. It's a small thing but it always sticks out to me. Computers just don't look like that.

    Please tell me I wasnt the only one to think they simply copy and pasted google earth over to after effects and put funky radar effects over it.

    the spinning globe shot was google earth I SWEAR IT!


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,193 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    All the UNIT scenes with the background of spinny-radar-computer screens was pretty poor, but yeah, the Fisher Price computer screens were pretty weak.

    To be honest though, I thought most of the FX in the final story were quite weak.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    pixelburp wrote: »
    All the UNIT scenes with the background of spinny-radar-computer screens was pretty poor, but yeah, the Fisher Price computer screens were pretty weak.

    To be honest though, I thought most of the FX in the final story were quite weak.

    For me it's one of those things that shatter suspension of disbelief for me. it's always weird little things, I'm fine with a 900 year old shape shifting time traveller, for example. But crappy unbelievable operating systems, that puts me right off :D


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    For me it's one of those things that shatter suspension of disbelief for me. it's always weird little things, I'm fine with a 900 year old shape shifting time traveller, for example. But crappy unbelievable operating systems, that puts me right off :D
    I know! I can also accept that you can reverse the polarity of the neutron flow but won't accept the illogic we saw in this episode! I've no problem with a time-travelling machine much bigger on the inside than the outside, but I take issue with the Master being resurrected by magic. I think it's because we accept certain elements up front - the Doctor, the TARDIS - but after that we look to have coherent story lines and sensible outcomes, which we felt we were cheated with here.


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,915 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    ixoy wrote: »
    which we felt we were cheated with here.

    Did you really feel cheated though? I don't know much about old Who, but these new series have continuously steamrollered over logic for the last five years. Surely you are used to it now?;)


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    ixoy wrote: »
    I know! I can also accept that you can reverse the polarity of the neutron flow but won't accept the illogic we saw in this episode! I've no problem with a time-travelling machine much bigger on the inside than the outside, but I take issue with the Master being resurrected by magic. I think it's because we accept certain elements up front - the Doctor, the TARDIS - but after that we look to have coherent story lines and sensible outcomes, which we felt we were cheated with here.

    All sci fi and fantasy series should stay consistent to their own internal logic. It's the worst thing for them to lose that. It really hurts them so much. Why care about something bad happening when you know the protagonists can just change the rules to win?

    Actually remind me a little of an interview I read with a comic book writer ages ago. Said alot of them hate writing magic superheroes for that very reason- most of them can do anything, really, so it's difficult to write a proper challenge for them that they can't fix by clicking the fingers.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    iguana wrote: »
    Did you really feel cheated though? I don't know much about old Who, but these new series have continuously steamrollered over logic for the last five years. Surely you are used to it now?;)

    He shouldn't have to get used to it.

    Television now is a very different beast to television then. Characters should change and develop and bad things should effect them over time. There should not be magic wands.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,915 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    He shouldn't have to get used to it.

    Television now is a very different beast to television then. Characters should change and develop and bad things should effect them over time. There should not be magic wands.

    Yes I know and it does generally annoy the hell out of me. Especially when so many of the inconsistencies could be overcome by the writers allowing fresh eyes to read their stories and coming back to them with the flaws and possible ways to make things make sense. But the last 5 years of Who have been consistently inconsistent. There have been some fantastic, genuinely intelligent episodes - some even written by RTD, but overall, especially with finales, the stories have been massive overblown messes as far as logic and sense has been concerned.

    I guess that in most cases with this show I've stopped caring too much about the sense the plot makes and focus more on the emotional impact. A lot like how Buffy/Angel often was but to a much bigger extent with Doctor Who.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,843 ✭✭✭GSPfan


    In this episode the master says....... (not word for word)

    "I was brought back to life because the Timelords needed someone like me to win the war."
    "Kill the President and Gallifrey could be yours."

    So there are two clear possible ways this could go.

    1.
    He breaks the link by killing Rasillon and goes back to certain death inside the time lock. Killing off the Timelords and the Master and Gallifrey forever. Job Done. No loose ends. Clean slate.

    or

    2.
    The Master somehow goes back to Gallifrey with the Timelords after killing James bond. Assuming he has killed the President and he is so brilliant then he may be able to win the time war and break the time lock bringing back the TimeLords, led by The Master.


    Personally I'd love to see the second option. And I thought that the ending was so fantastic that it papered over the cracks from the previous 2 hours leading up to it. I didn't feel it was dragged out at all. My heart was in my throat when he said he didn't want to go. And I was delighted he went around every character and done them all a favour as his last act. It was like every character/actor had their final goodbye. Leaving no links with new Doctor. This was further emphasised by the Tardis being destroyed. Ood Sigma said it best "This song is ending, but the story never ends".

    P.S. Without ever realising it my 4 favourite Doctor Who Stories in the last 5 series where all wrote by Stephen Moffet. I have high hopes for the new Doctor and new Series.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Thought it was ok, great in parts and entertaining but stupid in others.

    I LOL'ed at the falling out of the sky, ridiculous and the CGI of the Chinese army was stupid. The Masters just seemed pointless and just seemed to be something to justify his return, or maybe the Time Lords? How long was Timothy Dalton in it? Way underused.

    The ending was far too long. No need for Rose at all, the ending was schmaltzy enough after Donna, though Bernard Crimmins did it perfectly. I can see why Jack was in it, a nod to the new Torchwood series as everybody is wondering how they can have another one!

    Sarah Jane totally unnecessary as that was wrapped up a few weeks in the SJA. Incidentally, Quiz Fact: the 10th Doctors last scene was in SJA, not the End of Time.

    Crimmins and Dalton were excellent and Simms with what he had to do.

    Tennant was superb and Yep, I'd a tear in my eye at the end. He really has come on as an actor in this role. The scene with the 4 knocks at the glass was brilliant, didn't see it coming and he captured the audiences reaction to a tee.

    Crimmins and Tennant with the Gun was brilliant, superb, captured the 10th Doctor in one scene and they went and ruined it with the cocked gun. Far, far too long and ruined any suspense.

    I think Smith will grown on us. Loved the jibe about being female and having ginger hair, a jab at the rumours at a new female doctor and the emo look?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,196 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    I think I'm going to have to catch up on Torchwood now... sounds like the last series of it was pretty epic. I'd wondered about the line 'When Torchwood fell' alright. Seems a shame that I've spoiled the end of the last series for myself now :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,843 ✭✭✭GSPfan


    Sleepy wrote: »
    I think I'm going to have to catch up on Torchwood now... sounds like the last series of it was pretty epic. I'd wondered about the line 'When Torchwood fell' alright. Seems a shame that I've spoiled the end of the last series for myself now :(

    Ha. I was thinking the same thing. I didnt see the last series of torchwood.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,915 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    Sleepy wrote: »
    I think I'm going to have to catch up on Torchwood now... sounds like the last series of it was pretty epic. I'd wondered about the line 'When Torchwood fell' alright. Seems a shame that I've spoiled the end of the last series for myself now :(

    The last series of Torchwood was fantastic, but the first series was extremely poor and the second not much better. I don't think you've been massively spoiled if you only know what you've already mentioned. But do get Children of Earth and watch it before you get more spoiled.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,722 ✭✭✭anotherlostie


    I thought it was a horrendous self indulgent mess, hopping from irrelevant storyline to irrelevant storyline. Bernard Cribbins was the only saving grace.

    I had to laugh at all the Tennant fanboys on other forums complaining about how Matt Smith acted OTT. They've obviously never seen a regeneration before.

    Sad to say, the only episode worse than this I remember was the Absorbaloff one. But the new trailer gives me hope, as long as we don't get vampires on a weekly basis to satisfy the Twilight generation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭Killer_banana


    A few people have mentioned bad effects and I'd just like to say, the white point star, i have no idea if it's meant to be expensive or what but surely they could have made it look a bit better than something you could buy in a joke shop? Also if the Master was meant to instantly know it was from Gallifrey shouldn't it have had some sort of defining feature?

    Also everyone here is saying they had a tear in their eye for the last scene; I've always known I was overly-emotional but now I realise I'm worse than I thought. :P


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Also everyone here is saying they had a tear in their eye for the last scene; I've always known I was overly-emotional but now I realise I'm worse than I thought. :P

    Don't worry, as I have a goatee I must be an evil manly man like the Master so a tear in the eye is as much emotion as I am allowed to express.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Sleepy wrote: »
    I think I'm going to have to catch up on Torchwood now... sounds like the last series of it was pretty epic. I'd wondered about the line 'When Torchwood fell' alright. Seems a shame that I've spoiled the end of the last series for myself now :(

    Nota fan of the first or second, hit and miss, but the third was superb. Good balance between the sci fi and human inteaction. The Junior Minister, name escapes me, was superb, but he's an underrated actor anyway.
    GSPfan wrote: »
    Ha. I was thinking the same thing. I didnt see the last series of torchwood.

    You could watch the third series on its own, but it would be better to watch it from the start. Very adult in parts.
    iguana wrote: »
    The last series of Torchwood was fantastic, but the first series was extremely poor and the second not much better. I don't think you've been massively spoiled if you only know what you've already mentioned. But do get Children of Earth and watch it before you get more spoiled.

    True.
    I thought it was a horrendous self indulgent mess, hopping from irrelevant storyline to irrelevant storyline. Bernard Cribbins was the only saving grace.

    I had to laugh at all the Tennant fanboys on other forums complaining about how Matt Smith acted OTT. They've obviously never seen a regeneration before.

    Sad to say, the only episode worse than this I remember was the Absorbaloff one. But the new trailer gives me hope, as long as we don't get vampires on a weekly basis to satisfy the Twilight generation.
    .

    LOL. Couple of nice personal touches in the trailers. Think he'll be darker and will bring him on further. Sure there'll be a few hit and misses but sure the same happened Tennant.

    If you watched DW Confidential, they did say it was tough for him to just come in like that. Don't think anybody could expect more from him. Still, loved the dig at the fanboys, "I'm a girl", "I'm not ginger" LOL

    PS. His assistant his haut! Shorts and the uniform!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9



    Also everyone here is saying they had a tear in their eye for the last scene; I've always known I was overly-emotional but now I realise I'm worse than I thought. :P

    OK. A few tears in the eye. I'm not doing a group hug!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,843 ✭✭✭GSPfan


    I'm 27 (and a half) and I think I'm getting more emotional by the day when it comes to tv programmes. I'm the person who doesn't cry at funerals but stick on Finding Nemo and I have to pretend there's something in my eye.

    Wilf and The Doctor, and the Doctors final words were Fantastic. Had a Finding Nemo moment there.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭Killer_banana


    I'm a seventeen year girl which I could use as an excuse except I even cried during Confidential! I can't even remember why but I did! I really am ashamed. :p


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    I'm a seventeen year girl which I could use as an excuse except I even cried during Confidential! I can't even remember why but I did! I really am ashamed. :p

    Being a 17 year old girl means you can really get away with doing anything without logic. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    I'm a seventeen year girl which I could use as an excuse except I even cried during Confidential! I can't even remember why but I did! I really am ashamed. :p

    Actually, Confidential was far better than the actual show. At least you could see why they did what they did. Loved the bit at the end with Tennant choosing what scene to put in! They chose right!

    Better cancel the Group Hug!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    Didn't shed a tear, but DT's final words were one of the few good things in this episode. Nicely put and the idea of the Doctor fearing death was well done (again proving RTD can be at his strongest when writing character moments and not plot).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    I only watched Doctor Who for the first time the other day (Tennant's final episode). I'm a little bit confused, when Matt Smith regenerated as the Doctor why was he acting all strange? I mean why was he saying (paraphrase) "Still got hands, face, not a woman etc ect"? Does the Doctor keep the same mind regardless of rengeneration, kind of like Dax in Deep Space Nine? But if that's the case why was Tennant's Doctor saying he didn't want to go? Sorry for the stupid questions. tongue.gif


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    LZ5by5 wrote: »
    I only watched Doctor Who for the first time the other day (Tennant's final episode). I'm a little bit confused, when Matt Smith regenerated as the Doctor why was he acting all strange? I mean why was he saying (paraphrase) "Still got hands, face, not a woman etc ect"? Does the Doctor keep the same mind regardless of rengeneration, kind of like Dax in Deep Space Nine? But if that's the case why was Tennant's Doctor saying he didn't want to go? Sorry for the stupid questions. tongue.gif

    Wow, bad episode to start with LZ. I prescribe a blink and two family of blood, come back to me in a week :)

    The Doctor usually acts insane for a bit after regenerating, as his brain is effectively just after exploding and reforming in a different configuration!

    The Doctor is, apparently, really bad at regenerating. It usually goes a bit wrong and he's completely unable to control what he looks like when he regenerates (other Time Lords seem to have some control over it). Also sometimes, according to some extended media, regenerations can go wrong and mutations happen. Thus the hands? feet? nose? checks.

    Here's a mini episode which explains regenerations quite well (and shows goods old 10 going mad at the end)



    The Doctor explains in End of time part 1 that, although he survives regenerating, he is still a new man, with a new personality, with the memories of all the old Doctors. Thus 10 feared regeneration as a kind of death.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    Thanks Doom! Ah it didn't seem that bad, Tennant wasn't overacting for once. :D


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    LZ5by5 wrote: »
    Thanks Doom! Ah it didn't seem that bad, Tennant wasn't overacting for once. :D

    I demand you go watch family of blood and still say this is good after that :D


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,193 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    ixoy wrote: »
    Didn't shed a tear, but DT's final words were one of the few good things in this episode. Nicely put and the idea of the Doctor fearing death was well done (again proving RTD can be at his strongest when writing character moments and not plot).
    His final words totally pased me by because at that stage I had just slumped into a bored shape in my sofa; I had pretty much given up when Rose appeared & thought we'd never get to see the regeneration and there'd be some RTD style copout

    Oh and I'm 29 & found series 2 a bit weepy allright, definitely not this though.


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    pixelburp wrote: »
    Oh and I'm 29 & found series 2 a bit weepy allright, definitely not this though.
    I didn't because I never liked Rose and wanted the blonde bitch out of the show. I was definitely in a "get on with it" frame of mind for that.
    And it's Series 28 not 2 :p


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