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The End of Time Part 2 - Spoilers

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,880 ✭✭✭Raphael


    It's a trick some people use when they're putting up copyrighted content, think it gets around an automated script that matches the video, or something.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭doctorwhogirl


    The "You could be beautiful" was a *little* bit much... but the rest was wonderful! I'm starting to mourn number 10 though!
    I wonder will this be the end of Simm's master too?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭Jessibelle


    The "You could be beautiful" was a *little* bit much...

    Agreed, but it's going to be SO abused in slash fic :rolleyes:


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,952 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    The "You could be beautiful" was a *little* bit much... but the rest was wonderful! I'm starting to mourn number 10 though!
    I wonder will this be the end of Simm's master too?
    Jessibelle wrote: »
    Agreed, but it's going to be SO abused in slash fic :rolleyes:

    Let's also not forget that the Doctor is tied up & strapped to an upright chair as he says these things ;)


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Doctor who wiki says that the lady is thought to be the white guardian, according to a clue from RTD given in an interview.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,173 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    If the kids enter the sitting room while this is on, there'll be a murder...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,645 ✭✭✭Daemos


    DT saying goodbye to all his companions was good, as was The Master attacking Rasillon, the rest was meh


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 24,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭BuffyBot


    I actually disliked all the
    long goodbyes. Very typical RTD though, so kind of expected it

    The whole
    Race of Master clones/Naismith storyline
    was basically completely irrelevant in the end - it was just padding. I can't help but think it was just the most pointless bit of padding at that.

    The best scenes again were Cribbins and Tennant, and the regeneration was well done when we eventually got to it. In the end I just felt like going "ok, ok, get on with it!"

    Nice lead into the next series though..


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    The main plot was utter cack. Let's start:

    - They basically retconned the Time Lord's deimise with "Oh they're not actually dead, just stuck in a loop - sorry did I not make that clear?" And then they had the Time Lords gone power mad with Rassilon in charge? Is this an alternate time line? What happened to the many Presidents subsequent to Rasilon? He was only one of the first Time Lords, not the last. And are we supposed to believe they're really that evil? And that they're gone again? What an utter waste.

    - All that stuff with the templates and the links? Nonsense. All the Doctor had to do in the end was knock out a machine? Gah.

    - The music was particularly over-bearing and irritating this time.

    - Stupid comic green aliens - who else was rooting for their death?

    - OTT to the Doctor's regeneration. He's died nine times before you know! Why such dramatics for this one?

    - The Doctor just happening to save the people one last time. Why so dramatic? Just have him look on without interfering.

    Better stuff:
    - Bernard Cribbins proves again he was the companion that should have been.

    - Another nice conversation piece between him and the Doctor in the Stupid Cactus Ship

    - The Doctor sacrificed himself for a person. I like that low-key approach.


    Meh, a pretty weak send off. I don't like dragging the Time Lords back in, making them (for one episode) to be the Ultimate Big Bad and then disposing of them along with the Master.
    Oh and no real point in commenting on Matt Smith until he gets his own adventure.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,173 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Loved the scenes with Wilf. A few bits left me confused though:
    Who was the woman?
    What was the relevance of the bit with Jack? Or was it just a 'better remind everyone that Jack is bi' moment for RTD?

    I thought I'd read before that Timelords only get 9 regenerations, no explanations of how we're getting an 11th doctor?

    Liked the
    hi to Rose bit but that's only because I've a school-boy crush on Billie Piper.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,159 ✭✭✭✭phasers


    The
    return of the Timelords/ the Master race
    stuff was total guff, the only good scenes were the ones with the Doctor and Wilf. Thos cactus things were absolutely dreadful as well. The episode felt to me like RTD patting himself on the back non-stop. The last few minutes up till the regeneration were awful, I was cringeing and when I saw
    Rose
    again I got so pissed off :p . David Tennant completely carried the episode for me (Well, with a bit of help from John Simm.)

    It was a typical RTD episode with with the quiet moments being the only saving grace, especially Tennant's
    "I don't want to go"
    at the end. it was so sad, so quiet and so simple. I was in floods of tears at the end!

    Matt Smith has a tough job ahead of him.


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 13,425 ✭✭✭✭Ginny


    That was Meh at best, a whole lot of filler really.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,645 ✭✭✭Daemos


    Sleepy wrote: »
    I thought I'd read before that Timelords only get 9 regenerations, no explanations of how we're getting an 11th doctor?
    No, they get 12 regenerations, so there will be another two or so Doctors before they have to come up with some way to get passed that


  • Registered Users Posts: 55,474 ✭✭✭✭Mr E


    TURN DOWN THE F**KING MUSIC!!

    Sorry, had to be said.

    Some fantastic scenes (about 15 mins worth) padded with RTD nonsense. Cactus heads? WTF?

    Too early to comment on Matt Smith, but first impressions weren't great. He has huge shoes to fill.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,144 ✭✭✭✭Cicero


    did anyone think that the producers were trying to keep a bit too much continuity with the new doctor
    wearing the same clothes and having very similar colour hair?.
    ....Character was a
    lot more 'lively' and zany
    I thought but I think the producers are a little worried until the new doctor settles into his role....(.in terms of spoilers above,,,not sure why I did that as episode has aired but following thread posts above ...first time posting around here)
    .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,645 ✭✭✭Daemos


    Cicero wrote: »
    Character was a
    lot more 'lively' and zany
    Well watching Confidential, they said that he is post-regeneration, so I don't think he'll be like that next season, because he always goes a bit loopy after regenerating.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,503 ✭✭✭✭Also Starring LeVar Burton


    Thought the stuff with The Doctor and Wilf was fantastic... Props to David Tennant and Bernard Cribbins, and the way the Doctor sacrificed himself for Wilf was good... The rest was pretty crap... Very sad to see Tennant leave, but really looking forward to Moffat replacing Davies... Too early to comment on Matt Smith obviously...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,144 ✭✭✭✭Cicero


    DaPoolRulz wrote: »
    Well watching Confidential, they said that he is post-regeneration, so I don't think he'll be like that next season,
    because he always goes a bit loopy after regenerating.
    Cheers...only really got back into it recently since last time as a kid with Tom Baker in the early 80s....have a lot to learn.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    DaPoolRulz wrote: »
    No, they get 12 regenerations, so there will be another two or so Doctors before they have to come up with some way to get passed that

    they obviously will seeing as the master had used up all his regenerations at the start of the paul mcgann movie and has still come back time and time again

    onto tonights episode......one word..............

    AWFUL


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,952 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Hurm. Ok, having had my rant after the first part, I think i'll keep these comments brief. Or at least as brief as possible :D

    So anyway, nothing I think or feel about part 2 is that different from the rest of ye; the whole Master-race plot was, in the end, padding of the highest order & pretty much jettisoned from the start of part 2. It just continues to show RTD's script writing abilities had hit rock bottom.

    The comedy-green aliens were, if anything, worse this time around. I too wished them a messy demise.

    The whole Time Lord plot was retconned gubbins. I won't even start trying to pick it apart because part 1 already showed RTD incapable of keeping to his own mythology.

    ... Actually sorry yeah I will. The Master's whole plot
    was fixed by a flick of Rassilon's hand. I mean .... ergh. Sigh. I mean c'mon, even I could write better plots than this.

    The mysterious women?
    I suspect that it was Romana; I think she gets onto the Time Lord council at some point in the book fiction, so it fits.

    Overall it felt like a mid-season 2 parter than a season / Doctor finale. That is, it did until the long RTD goodbye of DOOM. Sweet fancy Moses but that was the most bombastic, melodramatic, over-wrought & just plain self-absorbed ending RTD has yet produced. There were 3 of us watching & we all shouted "GET ON WITH IT!" at the TV. I thought the simple sacrifice for one man was a nice touch, but it got lost in the endless goodbyes. It was very very self-indulgent of RTD.


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  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    pixelburp wrote: »
    That is, it did until the long RTD goodbye of DOOM.

    Don't involve me in this!


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    pixelburp wrote: »
    The mysterious women?
    I suspect that it was Romana; I think she gets onto the Time Lord council at some point in the book fiction, so it fits.
    I suspected that too but I read elsewhere that it's meant to be
    the White Guardian. Apparently there are clues to that effect. Then again the Time Lords - besides looking the part - were written poorly.

    For starters Rassilon was long dead by the time the Doctor came around. And then to have a crazy old lady prophet? Anyone else think she'd start hurling cats at people? Nonsense.
    It was very very self-indulgent of RTD.
    And thus a fitting end to his tenure.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,952 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    ixoy wrote: »
    Then again the Time Lords - besides looking the part - were written poorly.

    It just occurs; the episodes from the old series featuring Time Lords were nearly all grade-A poop. The new series has continued this trend with gusto.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    pixelburp wrote: »
    It just occurs; the episodes from the old series featuring Time Lords were nearly all grade-A poop. The new series has continued this trend with gusto.
    "The Deadly Assassin" was good! And that lots of Gallifrey hijinks. As to the others...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭doctorwhogirl


    ixoy wrote: »
    "The Deadly Assassin" was good! And that lots of Gallifrey hijinks. As to the others...

    I really liked The Deadly Assassin! One of my favourites!
    Also (I may get slapped for this) Trial of a Time Lord has it's tacky eighties moments....

    The bit that got to me
    was visiting Jack in the bar. Good god!! Why throw in every bloody alien we've seen like. I was ready to throw something at the telly!

    I think that if they
    had let him begin to regenerate after coming out of the chamber it would have been so much more poignant. We would have gotten to see Wilf's grief. Instead it was like Wilf didn't even understand that his doctor was dying. He was just like Wahay! I've won the lotto. Ah here!!

    Agree with a lot of ye in that the Time Lords were WASTED! What an utter waste of what could have been wonderful. But then that rings true of a lot if story arcs in RTD's writing.

    In general though, the final moments were wonderful (apart from
    Rose... Enough already!) The Ood song guiding him home had me in floods. And his last line genuinely did break my heart.
    I think that Tennant was magnificent. The dialogue before he went into the chamber was just wonderful and really gave us an insight into the heartache of regeneration. It also left me with what I feel is the more appropriate image of the Doctor; a good man, but not without fault.

    Also
    what was with the Tardis exploding with regeneration! As someone said already why was this regeneration so special like!? That the whole bloody Tardis had to explode! Perhaps it was purely with the sole purpose of giving a reason for the revamp in the new series.

    Like most here, I will wait until I see the series in action to give my opinion on him. IN truth, his attitude was not unlike No. 10 but as they said in Confidential he's a bit mental after the change. Also it takes awhile for the Doctor to come to terms with the man he has become. As seen in The Christmas invasion with Tennant "That's the kind of man I am..."

    Smith did look ever so rubber faced though! But it will make a change not to have such a "fanciable" doctor. Even though I thoroughly agree, even I was getting sick of the "dishy doctor" thing. Let's get back to normal admiration shall we!
    Really enjoyed the
    I'm a girl!!!!
    line. Made me laugh! And that's saying something given I was in floods at the time!

    All in all a mental, everything but the kitchen sink finale. But what else do we expect. RTD did a damn good job on the whole, but he's hit his low I'm afraid in terms of writing which saddens me. The man loved Doctor Who, I only wish he'd bowed out on something that showed that.

    Tennant however, is truly leaving on a high. His performance was wonderful, as was Cribbins. I'm really saddened to see 10 go, but

    Bring on Spring 2010!!! Loving the new icon!!:D


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,952 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Something tells me we'll see Wilf again; I mean they're millionairs now, it's possible they'll bump into each other!


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,915 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    Why all the spoiler codes? The episode has aired and it does have spoilers in the title.
    ixoy wrote: »
    - They basically retconned the Time Lord's deimise with "Oh they're not actually dead, just stuck in a loop - sorry did I not make that clear?" And then they had the Time Lords gone power mad with Rassilon in charge? Is this an alternate time line?


    It was the final day of the Time War. Around the same time the Time Lords are trying to break the seal open in End Of Time the 8th doctor is doing whatever he did to destroy everyone involved in the war. So the Timelords got sucked back into the war and shortly afterward are destroyed. This doesn't tally very well with the idea that the Doctor was fighting on the front line and his assertion that the Daleks who avoided the war were cowards.
    Sleepy wrote: »
    A few bits left me confused though:
    What was the relevance of the bit with Jack? Or was it just a 'better remind everyone that Jack is bi' moment for RTD?

    He was telling Jack he was forgiven, that he understood why he did what he did at the end of Children of Earth and giving him permission to move forward. It was one of my favourite parts of the entire series. The Doctor was the only one who could understand Jack's guilt and the only one who could redeem him. I always knew there would have to be a scene with the Doctor and Jack but this was done so simply but effectively, it was brilliant. (It's amazing that RTD can do things so simply and subtly sometimes, but so often he goes for overkill instead - as having every alien from the series in the scene shows:rolleyes::D.)

    Anybody else notice that the female cactus was played by Sinead Keenan who is George's girlfriend Nina in Being Human. And George is played by Russel Tovey who was Alonso in the bar with Jack at the end.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,711 ✭✭✭Hrududu


    Wasn't Martha engaged to that doctor? I thought it was a bit too convenient to hook her up with Mickey. I also did not like Donna's ending. So she remains the way she is but she's rich. I'd have preferred for her to somehow go back to how she was. Not all Doctor/Donna but the way she was towards the end of her series. It would have been nice knowing that she was out there being awesome.

    I thought the 2 episodes were very poor. I'm very much looking forward to Moffatt. I think RTD had a lot of faults. Like someone mentioned earlier he is at is best with the quiet bits. But he favoured the big schlocky stuff. And he stole shamelessly from other shows. But I'll miss Tennant. Matt Smith has a lot to live up to.

    I groaned when we saw Rose again. Could he not have left that alone? Doomsday was such a good send off but he ruined it by bringing her back at the end of the last series.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,208 ✭✭✭✭aidan_walsh


    Hang on, so was the Time Lock a great fabled barrier that no man, beast or being could breach, or some wet paper bag that anyone could **** anything they wanted through be it mineral or audible?

    Some nice scenes, again mostly featuring Wilf and the Doctor. Otherwise, mainly a mess.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,357 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Hang on, so was the Time Lock a great fabled barrier that no man, beast or being could breach, or some wet paper bag that anyone could **** anything they wanted through be it mineral or audible?

    Just watched the episode there. The Doctor said that no one could have entered or exited the Time Lock, unless they had something in place before the Time Lock was made. Thats why the Time Lords put the sound of drums in The Masters head when he was a child.

    Still not a great explanation, but at least they did acknowledge at.

    Overall, I'm pretty much the same as everyone. Some great scenes, but mostly too OTT. Donna's bit annoyed me though. The Doctor putting some 'defense mechanism' into her head was a total cop-out.

    Also, surely RTD has kinda screwed Moffat regarding the Time Lords. He gave the Time Lords a way to survive the Time War, then puts them right back into it. So now the Time Lords plan is foiled, they should have no way out, and are therefore gone. What if Moffat wanted to bring them back?


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