staring a dairy farm

whelan1

found the maize made a big difference , but was too dear last year for the milk price ,time to change to try some other crop

portoe1

what sort of yield did u get from the maize last year!? what would u suggest to put into there diet!?

browned

we too have an outfarm 2 miles away we rear the youngstock and sucklers there and also cull cows, wouldnt dream of walking milkers there

it wasn't the milkers i was suggesting walking to the out farm, it was the dry cows. instead of keeping them inside on silage u could have the late calving dry cow out on grass in feb and march. or alternatively you could have them grazing grass in the autumn after they are fully dryed off. it would reduce your silage requirement and reduce labour. but it was only a suggestion for a medium yielding herd.

if its high yielding cows that your planning to milk then surely u'll be able to have a higher stocking rate than was suggested as you'll be importing a large amount of feed onto the milking platform. surely u could increase the stocking rate to 180-200 cows if your outfarm will be used for growing maize/wholerop/triticale.

John_F

browned wrote: »

why bother with maize r wholecrop at all?
why not have an all grass system, and fill in any shortage of grass at the shoulders with ration. its much easier to feed ration to milking cows than maize or wholecrop i'd imagine.
also since your outfarm is only 2 miles away it'd make better since to keep it in grass as you could graze it with dry cows at the start or end of the year. if your roads are quite u could even walk the cows there

depends on the cow, a good crop of maize is a cheap crop as your getting tonnes and quality, its when the crop isn't good the price rises. maize silage is cheaper than 2nd cut silage on a unit of energy basis (teagasc figures from 06 or 07). Maize is a good balancer at grass with short fibre. Alot harder to fill the diet with ration as more risk of stomach problems, maize has the fibre and energy. a high yielding cow eats only marginally more than a low yielder but needs a hell of alot more energy in every kg of feed... so depends on type of cow and prices of other feeds. Walking cows 2 miles on a high ration and silage diet will lead to foot problems

browned

depends on the cow, a good crop of maize is a cheap crop as your getting tonnes and quality, its when the crop isn't good the price rises.

depends on the system as well. the poster never said if he was planning on milking seasonally or milking all year round. he also didn't say if he was planning on milking high or average yielding cows. my reply was to your typical spring calving senario where imo ration would be much more suitable to the system as opposed to maize. it would be more flexable and cost effective than a crop of maize.

Walking cows 2 miles on a high ration and silage diet will lead to foot problems

already explained in the previous post that it wasn't the milkers i was suggesting walk to the outfarm. i was suggesting that he could walk the dry cows to the outfarm, graze them for a month in the spring before saving for silage and walk them back home for calving. he could do the same in the winter. it would cut down the cost of wintering.

if he was to walk the milking cows to the outfarm it'd mean that he'd increase his milking platform in the spring and autumn by 70 acres, when would reduce his demand and thus reduce his need to feed silage and ration to his cows.
all this is dependent on the type of cow he plans to milk of course, as this obviously wouldn't work with a high yielding type cow

John_F

browned wrote: »

depends on the system as well. the poster never said if he was planning on milking seasonally or milking all year round. he also didn't say if he was planning on milking high or average yielding cows. my reply was to your typical spring calving senario where imo ration would be much more suitable to the system as opposed to maize. it would be more flexable and cost effective than a crop of maize.



already explained in the previous post that it wasn't the milkers i was suggesting walk to the outfarm. i was suggesting that he could walk the dry cows to the outfarm, graze them for a month in the spring before saving for silage and walk them back home for calving. he could do the same in the winter. it would cut down the cost of wintering.

if he was to walk the milking cows to the outfarm it'd mean that he'd increase his milking platform in the spring and autumn by 70 acres, when would reduce his demand and thus reduce his need to feed silage and ration to his cows.
all this is dependent on the type of cow he plans to milk of course, as this obviously wouldn't work with a high yielding type cow

In my view the cow is the system i.e. high yielding = high input. . . low yielding = lower inputs. Appologies, didn't see the other post, when you said

"also since your outfarm is only 2 miles away it'd make better since to keep it in grass as you could graze it with dry cows at the start or end of the year. if your roads are quite u could even walk the cows there"

then i thought you meant milkers.

@portoe1 have you costed the operation and if so at what milk price? What type of cow is in your mind?

browned

prob should have made it much clearer in my first post.

In my view the cow is the system i.e. high yielding = high input. . . low yielding = lower inputs

your right but you can get exceptions.
i know farmers getting yields of 16,000-17,000 in primerally grass based systems. it helps that they are excellent grassland managers and have exceptional breeding programmes.

i think the farm itself should be the defining factor on the system/cow employed on it. the soil type, yearly grass yield and farm size will have a huge factor in the type of cows that u decide to milk. for example jersey crosses are more suited than large holsteins to heavy ground as u won't have compaction issues.

portoe1

I am in the middle of costing everythin from the start up to production stage!! I would like to milk a cross between holstein and norweigian red!! does anyone have any comments on autumn cavling!?

whelan1

we calve 10 months of the year , the autumn calvers always milk better but have more feeding ,also have the risk of summer mastitis

portoe1

which do u think is more suited to higher yielding cows autumn or spring calving!? would u not make a saving on fertiliser cost in the summer with an autumn cavling herd!? do u have a big herd or why do u have such a long calving period!?

whelan1

we are liquid milk and things got screwed up a couple of years ago when a bull that was with the cows wasnt performing:( looking at the latest milk recording the autumn calvers are streets ahead for their 305 day yield , i have 150 milkers but then cows didnt milk well last summer , heres hoping for this year

zoostorm

portoe1 wrote: »

I am in the middle of costing everythin from the start up to production stage!! I would like to milk a cross between holstein and norweigian red!! does anyone have any comments on autumn cavling!?

With the winter we've just had, I'd stay away from autumn calvers. Pure hardship trying to get the machine going. Never mind trying to get the milkman in and out. No money would compensate you for what has to be done.Cows are designed by nature to bull in the spring and calve down around january, trying to get them to do otherwise leads to unneccessary hardship, particularily if you're not guaranteed a good winter bonus.

Humpty Dumpty

Open day on a single robot farm that is grazing very successfully. 20th May. Watch the journal for it.

milkprofit

Its not the cow but the farmer is most important
If you want a decent life style (milking toughf enoughf) stay away from autumn calving you will have enoughf to do to learn how to run one profitable system

Pacoa

Open day on a single robot farm that is grazing very successfully. 20th May. Watch the journal for it.

I was at this event the other day. Nice simple set up, nothing fancy and seemed to be workong fine. Saw cows making their way in to be milked all by themselves and the robot had no problem milking them, at least not while I was there.
Was given a rough price of 160k to install one robot and 275k for two of them.
It's a lot of dosh. Fella was trying to convince me that a new 12 unit parlour on a green field site would cost 150k. What do yee think, are they really costing that much now to build???

irishh_bob

Pacoa wrote: »

I was at this event the other day. Nice simple set up, nothing fancy and seemed to be workong fine. Saw cows making their way in to be milked all by themselves and the robot had no problem milking them, at least not while I was there.
Was given a rough price of 160k to install one robot and 275k for two of them.
It's a lot of dosh. Fella was trying to convince me that a new 12 unit parlour on a green field site would cost 150k. What do yee think, are they really costing that much now to build???

closer to the half of it i would have thought

F.D

Pacoa wrote: »

I was at this event the other day. Nice simple set up, nothing fancy and seemed to be workong fine. Saw cows making their way in to be milked all by themselves and the robot had no problem milking them, at least not while I was there.
Was given a rough price of 160k to install one robot and 275k for two of them.
It's a lot of dosh. Fella was trying to convince me that a new 12 unit parlour on a green field site would cost 150k. What do yee think, are they really costing that much now to build???

I got a quote for a basic enough 10 unit was 50 k, the building and electric i'd say another 20 k, you have to look at the tecnology, if i speced a parlour the same as the robot i'm sure it would be 100k easy
the main difference i see is if you want to increase the herd side you can do so in the parlour without spending another 100 k, down side you still have the tedious job of milking!

Humpty Dumpty

First of all I will point out that I am a robot lover. You are quiet correct in saying that a parlour would be half, but you are also quiet correct if you speced it up to robot level. Could I make a few points.
It is impossible to come near the spec of a robot but if you tried a 20 unit would cost you 159 for the kit. collecting yards and house, I will guess another 50 to 70 which is only about 20% off two robots. But I think it would be as dear in reality.
The farmer at the open day the last day said he had cows during his first winter went from 9 gallons on conventional to 13 gallons on robots milked 4 times a day. and he was not doing the milking. If you got 15% more mik which is conservative, you must also take this into account over 20 years of the life of a robot, prob more.
Remember also that the robot would still be worth 30k after 11-15 years.
Agree with your point about expanding, but I would rather put 55 cows on a robot producing what 65 to 70 would do on conventional. Same milk in the tank less fixed costs. Other point to remember Vet costs crash under robots as they are being milked 3-4 times a day. You must factor it all in. Dont forget the biggy, do you want to gon in a pit for the next 20 years 7 days a week. Seems to me that farmer in kerry has a life.

Pacoa

Seems to me that farmer in kerry has a life.

Yes, just change the fencer wire morning and evening and clean round the robot and your done (during the summer of course).

There must be health benifits to them too. Less work = more energy and then there's safety. A neighbour had his wrist broke by a heifer last year. Kicked it up against a bar so at least you wouldn't have that risk anymore.

browned

Fella was trying to convince me that a new 12 unit parlour on a green field site would cost 150k.

depends on da spec i guess. put up a very basic 20 unit four yrs ago on a greenfield site. bought the vacuum pumps, lines, clusters etc new for 16,800e, and after taking away the grant at the time u could say the parlour was bought for 8,800. the shed was mostly second hand material (roof, piping) so as to keep the cost down. soil water tank was grand aided at the time as well but i'd say the shed, parlour collection yard and soiled water tank cost between 30-40,000. a new bulk tank would be an additional cost

it milks 80 cows in 40-50 mins, 35 if i'm in a hurry:D

robots are more suited to high imput, high output cows. not sure they'd work in ur typical spring calving herds which make up the bulk of herds in ire.

just wondering does the cow get ration every time she comes in for milking?

Pacoa

just wondering does the cow get ration every time she comes in for milking?

Yes they're trickle fed a small bit at a time. The few cows i saw being milked were getting 2.5kgs per visit (2.4 visits per day) but i think they were being fed to yeild and thoses ones were high yielding. You wouldn't want a robot idle for two months of the year but having said that im spring calving and i milked all through last winter, and seem to be doing it every winter.

Humpty Dumpty

Pacoa, I agree with you completely and I truly believe that all the 80% of all block calvers are actually taking 12 weeks to calv down. The farmer the last day also said that he had cows on 400 days and still milking. He claimed that cows on robots just seem to keep on going. Again back to the arguement if you are comparing a conventional to a robot, Am I not correct in saying that if you are a true spring calver than that will also be shut down for two months.

browned

am only saying that they're more suited to the higher input cow cause they need ration to entice the cow to milk, nothin to do with shutting down the parlour for a said period. there are many spring herds that could go 4-5 (grass growth/weather dependent of course) without feeding ration so in these cases how would u entice the cow to the robot. i know they were trialing them in new zealand on grass only diets where the enticement would be fresh grass but if a cow was getting ration at the shoulders and the farmer wanted to stop feeding it how would he entice the cow to milk herself in that senario.

don't get me wrong i think there is def a place for robot milkers in ireland but i don't see it taking off with ur typical seasonal calver.

irishh_bob

a robotic system would not be compatible with many dairy farms around this country who have to walk cows across roads or long distances , they will never catch on in this country , more suited to the netherlands , germany etc where cows are indoors all year round

F.D

irishh_bob wrote: »

a robotic system would not be compatible with many dairy farms around this country who have to walk cows across roads or long distances , they will never catch on in this country , more suited to the netherlands , germany etc where cows are indoors all year round

Most cows around the country over the past few years have been in for longer that ever before with all the rain, yes crossing the road would put a end to the robot idea unless you were willing to change your system but i dont think it would rule it out straight away, the main obstical in this country is people stuck in the same regime and have the mindset that robots dont work, i've seen the cows coming in from long distances on a robot farm before and it looked bloody impressive and the main insentive was fresh grass knowing that once they went through the robot, the went to a new paddock, Cows are a lot smarter than people give them credit for and i think the robot actually shows this

jfh

have been following this thread for some time now, i think it has spun out and deserves it's own seperate thread.
saying that i'm going to add my own question, is there much trouble with the robot? if they break down are they easily serviced and are parts easy to get?

Pacoa

i know they were trialing them in new zealand on grass only diets where the enticement would be fresh grass but if a cow was getting ration at the shoulders and the farmer wanted to stop feeding it how would he entice the cow to milk herself in that senario.

Fresh grass is the answer to that. The A/B system seemed to work well at that farm but at 2.4 milkings a day i felt it was a little low. An A/B/C system would be better where they would move to fresh grass every 8 hours. You should get closer to 3 milkings per day that way and maybe use less concentrate.

a robotic system would not be compatible with many dairy farms around this country who have to walk cows across roads or long distances

Crossing a road would be out unless you put in a culvert but i don't see why walking long distances wouldn't work. If the padock is empty of grass and the cow knows there's ration and fresh grass the other side of the robot i don't see why she wouldn't come back.

is there much trouble with the robot? if they break down are they easily serviced and are parts easy to get?

I don't think they give that much trouble but there's bound to be breakdowns now and then as for getting parts i think lely have all the parts on hand at the lely centres. They'd have to cause there'd be no way you could wait a day or two for parts to be delievered from holland. The machine would have to be got going within 12 hours.

irishh_bob

F.D wrote: »

Most cows around the country over the past few years have been in for longer that ever before with all the rain, yes crossing the road would put a end to the robot idea unless you were willing to change your system but i dont think it would rule it out straight away, the main obstical in this country is people stuck in the same regime and have the mindset that robots dont work, i've seen the cows coming in from long distances on a robot farm before and it looked bloody impressive and the main insentive was fresh grass knowing that once they went through the robot, the went to a new paddock, Cows are a lot smarter than people give them credit for and i think the robot actually shows this

i would have thought the practice of extended grazing has reduced the amount of time dairy cows spend inside , time was , cows didnt go out each spring till april 15 th and were back in by the middle of october , as for cows walking long distances not being an obstacle , i know someone who threw them out a number of years back for that precise reason

Pacoa

as for cows walking long distances not being an obstacle , i know someone who threw them out a number of years back for that precise reason

Was he giving them too much grass or something cause if ya fill em with grass they'll just lie down and go nowhere. Have to keep the strip wire in and judge the allocation accurately.

Humpty Dumpty

The lely centers have to be 2 hours from any robots. Was on a farm in the uk the last year and an engineer was on farm for a breakdown was 18 months previous. Pretty impressive considering a machine that runs 24 hours a day. If you had a new tractor running 24 hours a day for 18 months, do you think you would have any problems.
With regard the throwing out the robots. If they are working on 5 farms in the south at the moment than they will work everywhere. Remember guys look at you tube they are working in new zealand and austrailia.
The guy in the journal was getting 2.8 times. People must remember that 99.5 per of farms are only 2 times a day. What is wrong with 2.4 and 3.2 in the winter. High yielders on the show the last day were 4.2 during the winter. And again remember that cows are generally housed for 6 months. They were the last three years. Remember you do not have to be there early morning and evening. Dairy companies and advisors in this country love to talk them down. Good old Ireland. No Politics , Ya right!!!!!