staring a dairy farm

whelan1

as far as i can remember when i started dairying quota was £3.00 a gallon - what a rip off and that is about 15 years ago

networks

i bought 20,000 gallons of quota when it was 2 old pounds a gallon on average,great investment i dont think???

leg wax

lads when quotas go and theres an explosion of milk on the irish market whats going to happen.

whelan1

ye i think there was a grant in place , but looking back it was a total rip off

Barname

leg wax wrote: »

lads when quotas go and theres an explosion of milk on the irish market whats going to happen.

the creative will thrive

if you are simply shovelling your product into the the Big Boys you will be crucified

I see a rebirth in Co-ops, thing is , the Irish psyche may be too greedy

John_F

leg wax wrote: »

lads when quotas go and theres an explosion of milk on the irish market whats going to happen.

it cant be let happen, we all may think sure new zealand can expand mad, but they can and they cant, if you start dairying there you milk cows, grand job, you produce lets say 200,000 kgs of milk solids, but if you want to supply in the following season you must buy 200,000 worth of shares (1 share = 1 kg ms), if Fonterra see that excess milk is being produced they push up the share price to put farmers off buying these shares and therefore put them off expanding. This system can work well as a form of supply control, Europe will have to come up with some method of controlling the supply. the whole reason for quotas was to give a good price to farmers and if taken away the reason will be gone with it

irish_bob

leg wax wrote: »

lads when quotas go and theres an explosion of milk on the irish market whats going to happen.

thier wont be any explosion in milk , thier is nothing stopping anyone in expanding or getting into milk right now , quotas are effectivley finished , price is the only thing dictating supply right now , the country hasnt filled its quota in a couple of years now

irish_bob

John_F wrote: »

it cant be let happen, we all may think sure new zealand can expand mad, but they can and they cant, if you start dairying there you milk cows, grand job, you produce lets say 200,000 kgs of milk solids, but if you want to supply in the following season you must buy 200,000 worth of shares (1 share = 1 kg ms), if Fonterra see that excess milk is being produced they push up the share price to put farmers off buying these shares and therefore put them off expanding. This system can work well as a form of supply control, Europe will have to come up with some method of controlling the supply. the whole reason for quotas was to give a good price to farmers and if taken away the reason will be gone with it

quotas came about 1st and foremost for the purpose of surpressing production which had rapidly increased throughout the seventies and into the early 80,s , beef mountains and milk lakes were the big talking point 30 years ago

Barname

John_F wrote: »

it cant be let happen, we all may think sure new zealand can expand mad, but they can and they cant, if you start dairying there you milk cows, grand job, you produce lets say 200,000 kgs of milk solids, but if you want to supply in the following season you must buy 200,000 worth of shares (1 share = 1 kg ms), if Fonterra see that excess milk is being produced they push up the share price to put farmers off buying these shares and therefore put them off expanding. This system can work well as a form of supply control, Europe will have to come up with some method of controlling the supply. the whole reason for quotas was to give a good price to farmers and if taken away the reason will be gone with it

incorrect - quota's were introduced to reduce the 'milk lakes' 'butter mountains' etc etc

johnstown

While the price of milk is on the floor, so too are entry costs, cost of building etc have dropped. It would have been much worse to get into dairying 2 - 3 years ago at the height of it and pay top dollar for building the facilities. It might be an excellent time to get in and get great value. If you have the land and are prepared to work hard then it should be considered. I would make sure and do all the sums first though, talk to other operators, the accountant etc It is a decision not to be taken lightly.

While milk is below production cost, remember that it is the average production cost. Same as any other type of farming enterprise, production costs can vary widely from farm to farm. If you have to borrow significantly to get into dairying, then you need to ensure that the investment will justify entry (for a 7 day week job).

John_F

Barname wrote: »

incorrect - quota's were introduced to reduce the 'milk lakes' 'butter mountains' etc etc

i.e. over supply = poor milk price

leg wax

irish_bob wrote: »

thier wont be any explosion in milk , thier is nothing stopping anyone in expanding or getting into milk right now , quotas are effectivley finished , price is the only thing dictating supply right now , the country hasnt filled its quota in a couple of years now

bob i am a little puzzled here you say no explosion of milk, later in thread you thank johnstown for basically saying now may be the time for people to get into milk if figures add up, over supply means no price for the farmer, the country has a quota that has not been filled for years and yet the price is low more milk is the way forward i am puzzled, and pissed nice bottle of wine in me,rant over see you girls in the morning:P

whelan1

think i heard yesterday that there will be a grant towards new entrants in dairying towards the cost of equipment think you have to be under 35 though

Barname

John_F wrote: »

i.e. over supply = poor milk price

the issue was that the automatic purchasing mechanisms of the EEC led to non market demand production

Income was generated by farmers for merely producing surplus to market requirements

I find it amazing that people only view a problem or an issue from their own standing, thats exactly the attitude that will keep certain farmers in a quagmire at best or more likely out of business...

John_F

Barname wrote: »

the issue was that the automatic purchasing mechanisms of the EEC led to non market demand production

Income was generated by farmers for merely producing surplus to market requirements

I find it amazing that people only view a problem or an issue from their own standing, thats exactly the attitude that will keep certain farmers in a quagmire at best or more likely out of business...

when you are struggling to make money do you think that person would be concerned about anything else? what automatic purchasing mechanisms? obviously if theres over supply there's "non market demand production" I don't see your point, we all know that quotas were introduced to reduce production, its not like the factor of farmer prices wasn't considered

Barname

John_F wrote: »

when you are struggling to make money do you think that person would be concerned about anything else? what automatic purchasing mechanisms? obviously if theres over supply there's "non market demand production" I don't see your point, we all know that quotas were introduced to reduce production, its not like the factor of farmer prices wasn't considered

the problem that farmers find themselves in now is somewhat of their own making

years ago the co-ops were owned by the farmers and acted in the farmers interest
farmers allowed themselves to be tricked out of ownership of these co-ops for the sake of anything from £1000 - £10000

the price of cheese has not fallen, the retail price of milk is used as a loss leader, baby powder is still expensive, yet the dairy farmer is subject to cuts in his gate price

I have little patience for those that dont see the folly of their ways

John_F

Barname wrote: »

the problem that farmers find themselves in now is somewhat of their own making

years ago the co-ops were owned by the farmers and acted in the farmers interest
farmers allowed themselves to be tricked out of ownership of these co-ops for the sake of anything from £1000 - £10000

the price of cheese has not fallen, the retail price of milk is used as a loss leader, baby powder is still expensive, yet the dairy farmer is subject to cuts in his gate price

I have little patience for those that dont see the folly of their ways

farmers have little or no control over exchange rates, world demand or government policies.

you are referring to two co operatives that changed their structure, in my view they were foolish and now the focus of them plc's is profit for outside share holders, fonterra was looking at the idea of dry shares by non farmers but got no confidence from the farmers...they were dead right. any future milk company will have to be farmer owned. Price of cheese has fallen on the world market and is recovering slower than butter or any of the powders, a small percentage of irish milk goes into dairy food and this value added sector needs to be enhanced, we are too reliant on butter and other commodities like WMP

Farmers cannot be totally at fault in fairness, governments and the policies in place largely depend what products are made, e.g. intervention and import tariffs for butter means a secure market and companies not be taking risks with other markets

we are gone totally off point with this but yes farmers need to think of their futures and have more of a say i.e. not by selling themselves out

Barname

John_F wrote: »

but yes farmers need to think of their futures and have more of a say i.e. not by selling themselves out

Now you are talking my language.

_Skitso_

whelan1 wrote: »

think i heard yesterday that there will be a grant towards new entrants in dairying towards the cost of equipment think you have to be under 35 though

Where did you hear this, do you have any more details please!!

F.D

_Skitso_ wrote: »

Where did you hear this, do you have any more details please!!

I'd like some more info as well please, I bet you will have to have the green cert to qualify, i wonder what the terms and conditions are?

yo!its_yoyo

F.D wrote: »

I'd like some more info as well please, I bet you will have to have the green cert to qualify, i wonder what the terms and conditions are?

the green cert is simple to get. Go to clonakilty and keep a farm diary for a year, poof your done.

Humpty Dumpty

Any farmer looking to get back into dairying has to look at robots. Two new lely centers set up in the south. The cost for 1 or 2 robots is very close to conventional cost but think of the benefit, lifestyle, production, animal health and the list goes on and before you say it, it works very well in grazing, i have seen many a robot farm working on grazing and they are all working very well.

irishh_bob

Humpty Dumpty wrote: »

Any farmer looking to get back into dairying has to look at robots. Two new lely centers set up in the south. The cost for 1 or 2 robots is very close to conventional cost but think of the benefit, lifestyle, production, animal health and the list goes on and before you say it, it works very well in grazing, i have seen many a robot farm working on grazing and they are all working very well.

yeah , i can just see an old cow walking in ( volluntarily ) a half a killometer to the parlour to be milked , twice in one day :rolleyes:

Humpty Dumpty

I have seen it on a farm near me. His cows are achieving 2.5 times a day during the summer and 3.4 times a day during the winter period. I think there is an open day there in april.

whelan1

robots are grand but you still need to be there , theres always one that doesnt go in etc

F.D

Humpty Dumpty wrote: »

Any farmer looking to get back into dairying has to look at robots. Two new lely centers set up in the south. The cost for 1 or 2 robots is very close to conventional cost but think of the benefit, lifestyle, production, animal health and the list goes on and before you say it, it works very well in grazing, i have seen many a robot farm working on grazing and they are all working very well.

Agreed but the capital cost is a major factor and also to get the mamimum out of the system it needs to be milking 365days a year, other problem is crossing the road to the other fields. but if i had the money i would put one in and zerograze the land across the road and have the cows out by day and in by night,

Humpty Dumpty

I have spoke to a farmer . There is an open day on his farm in nenagh next thursday. Is conventional quote with building and collecting yards was €30000 more expensive than the two robots he put it. On the robot farm near me he had to cull 1 ackward cow and he has never had an issue with cows entering robot. 100% correct on public road issue. But as a cost issuen even if they were 25% more expensive, Lifestyle, spec . Better than getting battered by wind and rain in kilkenny

John_F

chalk it down its better than the shack in kilkenny thatl be used for glanbia to set a lower milk price and say 'hey lads if we can do it ye can'

any sign of a demo around cork coming up? theres a big thread on the britishfarmingfourms.co.uk website about a lad putting in a lely, very interesting

blue5000

Well FD have we pis**d you off yet? Have you made your mind up yet? I have to say I'm a bit biased against dairying, I stopped milking when the price of milk I was getting went below what my father was getting when quotas came in back in 1984/5.
If you still want to get into it try looking at a partnership with a large established farmer who maybe wants to start taking it easy and has no family interested in taking over. Perhaps you could use your land for rearing heifers/ beefing male calves.

You have said that you have 2 blocks with only 60 ac round the yard, you are talking about zero grazing, what part of the country are you in and what co-ops would you be thinking of supplying?

The reason I ask what co-ops are near you is
1) there is a significant difference between the worst co-op and the best co-op in this country.
2) Energy- It takes an awful lot of energy to cool milk and then dry / process it. If the co-op you are thinking of supplying doesn't have a gas supply (cheap energy) they are, to put it bluntly F***ed.

You sound like you are fairly young and keen to milk cows, It is a good time to get in as almost every dairy farmer in the country is fed up at the moment, bad weather, low prices, working for nothing etc. and looking for other options. I would suggest think about the partnership, it has a lot of advantages but it takes two to get on, it won't suit everyone though.
Hope there is some food for thought here:)

Humpty Dumpty

Kingston refrigetation got the franchise for Lely. Give them a ring about open day. It is the future lads. Even on grazing