To the militant athiests from this thread....

Tha Gopher

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63636991&posted=1#post63636991


Just wondering in the old festive season, do you

1- Carry on the old Christianity is hatred mantra and refuse to give/ accept presents

or

2- Hate Christianity but ignore your beliefs to join in Crimbo for the great piss up that it is, great family dinner and re appoint it as a non religious day of goodwill to your fellow man


If you choose option 2, Im intrigued to know why, given that the church is apparently such a vile influence on the world. Personally I find a hatred of religion and an embracing of xmas to be laughable, surely you should organise a random day elsewhere in the year?

I can imagine the response, "aw, cos all the other kids in my sons/ daughters class get christmas presents". Surely if all the other kids in the class get their big day out for communion and confirmation, so should yours by that logic? Santa is, after all, a character from Christian mythology. If you are a commited athiest and hate christian teaching in schools, Santa is mickey mouse offensive harmful nonsense that your kids should not be exposed to, end of debate.

btw to point out, Im a Catholic by birth and I havent even been to Christmas mass in 7 odd years, but I find the contradictions of hardcore athiesm hilarious. I dont do anything half- Ramadan during Ramadan just to join in, if you despise Christinaity why hold a half celebration of gift giving/ receiving at this time of year?

Dying to hear it

efb

Did Christians not just rob the pagan midwinter festival? Wasn't Jesus born in Sept?

mayordenis

efb wrote: »

Did Christians not just rob the pagan midwinter festival? Wasn't Jesus born in Sept?

Newstalk last night? Highfive

Happy ****ing Yule! bitches.

efb

No, stuff I learned when I was 8. God bless World Book Encyclopedias, a much better read that the thick black book beside them... too far-fetched

Tha Gopher

efb wrote: »

Did Christians not just rob the pagan midwinter festival? Wasn't Jesus born in Sept?

And you honestly believe the majority of this months flavour contributors to that thread know this, assuming its even true?

Come on (and by your statement, you seem to be acknowledging that Jesus was a real person born in a September at some point in our history)

ihadu

you didn't mention mass in your post. christmas has moved on to just represent a festive holiday with time off work and the exchanging of presents.

3DataModem

Reminds me of those Christians who let their kids trick or treat or believe sin Santa and the Tooth Fairy.

Or perhaps some people should realise that it's not really that important what traditions people pick and choose - and those that pedantically analyse this stuff (not the OP, just generally) are morose humorless dogmatic trolls.

Dimithy

I would assume a fair few people would know that Christianity used older festivals for their own to gain favour with the local populations.

And christmas is no longer about jesus. Its more about family, presents and turkey. Lots of turkey

mayordenis

Tha Gopher wrote: »

And you honestly believe the majority of this months flavour contributors to that thread know this, assuming its even true?

Come on (and by your statement, you seem to be acknowledging that Jesus was a real person born in a September at some point in our history)

Jesus almost certainly existed, just not as "special" as some of you lot think, maybe a different kind of "special".

ihadu

Tha Gopher wrote: »

And you honestly believe the majority of this months flavour contributors to that thread know this, assuming its even true?

Atheists tend to investigate instead of blindly follow old men in dresses into little rooms to devulge persomal information to be judged by said men in dresses.

Come on (and by your statement, you seem to be acknowledging that Jesus was a real person born in a September at some point in our history)

J-Bone was real...but mental.

mardybumbum

Its quite easy to do actually.
Im an athiest and I quite enjoy christmas.
Sure It isnt even about Jesus anymore.
My family will not be going to mass on christmas morning, we haven't put a star or angel on top of our tree, and you wont find a crib in our house.
Im looking forward to the cider, chocolate and presents.

IrishKnight

Newtonmas ftw!

mayordenis

All hail the Glorious Tinsel and Reindeer, and Elfs, all such bastions of the Catholic Faith.

robby^5

2.

In my own experience It's an occassion for kids to be excited about Santa and presents, drinking and eating too much with friends and family and giving/receiving lots of presents.

It's purely a traditional event for me, nothing to do with Christianity at all...hijacked yore holiday bitchez :P

Pushtrak

Tha Gopher wrote: »

Just wondering in the old festive season, do you
1- Carry on the old Christianity is hatred mantra and refuse to give/ accept presents
or
2- Hate Christianity but ignore your beliefs to join in Crimbo for the great piss up that it is, great family dinner and re appoint it as a non religious day of goodwill to your fellow man

You can "do Christmas" and still not be religious. After all, for many who are religious, it isn't done for religious reasons any more in my experience. It has become a materialistic event that occurs near the end of the year.

There was more of a show of it when I was younger, my parents would act as if religion was a big thing to them, and not just at Christmas. As I grew older, though, it was clear they weren't as religious as they had made out.

I give gifts because I don't want to be a selfish git, and I don't want to refuse gifts because you only come across as an ass when you do that.

surely you should organise a random day elsewhere in the year?

Could you explain what you mean by that?

If you are a commited athiest and hate christian teaching in schools, Santa is mickey mouse offensive harmful nonsense that your kids should not be exposed to, end of debate.

This reads to me as a similar line of thought to those religious people who ask "If you don't follow any religion, then how do you have morals, and not go out killing and robbing" except from the opposite position. As in, that atheists despise every single aspect of religion.

There are things that religion says that are good. And its not because religion said them they are good, they are good because they are good. Sadly, it is because there is so much we object to (read: the nonsense) that we can not treat the fantastical as reality.

Cabaal

Tha Gopher wrote: »

And you honestly believe the majority of this months flavour contributors to that thread know this, assuming its even true?

You'll find the vast majority of "Christian" events and festivals are actually converted events that already existed, the christians just stole them and "converted" them in an effort to promote their faith.

Do some research before you post such un-informed rubbish

Tell me this what does a fat man in a red coat who I might add is dressed the way he is because of Coca Cola (the red coat) (yes this is an actual fact) have to do with jesus?

If you want to be uber religious surely "St Nick" should be dressed the way he was supposed to be instead of dressed in a red coat like a company wanted him to be in, Christmas as it stands today has very few links to religion for the vast majority of people and is simply a holiday.

PoleStar

Tha Gopher wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63636991&posted=1#post63636991


Just wondering in the old festive season, do you

1- Carry on the old Christianity is hatred mantra and refuse to give/ accept presents

or

2- Hate Christianity but ignore your beliefs to join in Crimbo for the great piss up that it is, great family dinner and re appoint it as a non religious day of goodwill to your fellow man


If you choose option 2, Im intrigued to know why, given that the church is apparently such a vile influence on the world. Personally I find a hatred of religion and an embracing of xmas to be laughable, surely you should organise a random day elsewhere in the year?

I can imagine the response, "aw, cos all the other kids in my sons/ daughters class get christmas presents". Surely if all the other kids in the class get their big day out for communion and confirmation, so should yours by that logic? Santa is, after all, a character from Christian mythology. If you are a commited athiest and hate christian teaching in schools, Santa is mickey mouse offensive harmful nonsense that your kids should not be exposed to, end of debate.

btw to point out, Im a Catholic by birth and I havent even been to Christmas mass in 7 odd years, but I find the contradictions of hardcore athiesm hilarious. I dont do anything half- Ramadan during Ramadan just to join in, if you despise Christinaity why hold a half celebration of gift giving/ receiving at this time of year?

Dying to hear it

The irony here is that the author of this post refers to "militant" atheists and yet it is his post that is filled with words such as "hatred", "despise".

You will generally not find such language in the Atheism and Agnostics forum.

Christmas nowadays is no more a Christian festival than Ramadan is. It is about spending time with family and friends and expressing how much you care about them. In many countries, people wish each other a happy holiday and ignore the Christian links. I have Muslim friends who even share in the holiday spirit and recognise the fun to be had by all.


You refer to the contradictory atheists. Read the bible, its full of contradictions.

Mena

As a family, we don't do the xmas thing, don't do presents or any of that malarky, it's just another day, although living in the Western world we tend to get the day off

Smallbit

I see Xmas as a sort of thanksgiving really - lots of family and friends gather, eat, drink, swap gifts, and maybe reflect on the year gone by.

@OP - I don't see how anything the average christian does at xmas reflects religious belief in any way, apart from church on xmas morning. I'm all for changing xmas to 'winter solstice festival' if disgruntled god-botherers resent me enjoying 'their' feast!

positron

A lot of very good reasons here:

[Amazon.co.uk] The Atheist's Guide to Christmas

Cabaal

I thought the OP would love this, given that Christmas is the celebration of the birth of christ.

History
For many centuries, Christian writers accepted that Christmas was the actual date on which Jesus was born.[46] However, in the early eighteenth century, scholars began proposing alternative explanations. Isaac Newton argued that the date of Christmas was selected to correspond with the winter solstice in the northern hemisphere,[9] which in ancient times was marked on December 25.[47] In 1743, German Protestant Paul Ernst Jablonski argued Christmas was placed on December 25 to correspond with the Roman solar holiday Dies Natalis Solis Invicti and was therefore a "paganization" that debased the true church.[8] In 1889, Louis Duchesne suggested that the date of Christmas was calculated as nine months after the Annunciation (March 25), the traditional date of the Incarnation.[48]

Christian establishment

There is no evidence scripturally or secularly that early Christians in the first century commemorated the birth of Jesus Christ. In fact, in keeping with early Jewish law and tradition, it is likely that birthdays were not commemorated at all. According to The World Book Encyclopedia: "early Christians considered the celebration of anyone's birth to be a pagan custom." (Vol. 3, page 416) Rather than commemorating his birth, the only command Jesus gave concerning any sort of commemoration of his life actually had only to do with his death (Luke 22:19). It was not until several hundred years after the death of Jesus Christ that the first instances of the celebration of Christmas begin to appear in the historical record. According to the new Encyclopedia Britannica, some who later claimed to be Christian likely "wished the date to coincide with the pagan Roman festival marking the 'birthday of the unconquered sun'." The festival was celebrated with similar customs (gift giving, feasting) that are done to celebrate Christmas today.

The New Testament does not give a date for the birth of Jesus.[6][55] Around AD 200, Clement of Alexandria wrote that a group in Egypt celebrated the nativity on Pachon 25.[6] This corresponds to May 20.[56] Tertullian (d. 220) does not mention Christmas as a major feast day in the Church of Roman Africa.[6] However, in Chronographai, a reference work published in 221, Sextus Julius Africanus suggested that Jesus was conceived on the spring equinox, popularizing the idea that Christ was born on December 25.[57][58] The equinox was March 25 on the Roman calendar, so this implied a birth in December.[59] De Pascha Computus, a calendar of feasts produced in 243, gives March 28 as the date of the nativity.[60] In 245, the theologian Origen of Alexandria stated that, "only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod)" celebrated their birthdays.[61] In 303, Christian writer Arnobius ridiculed the idea of celebrating the birthdays of gods, which suggests that Christmas was not yet a feast at this time.[6]

Also

Incorrect birth date of Jesus

Followers of the Jewish and Messianic religions have said that Jesus was born during or around the festival of Sukkot (which occurs between early September and early October every year), not in December.[60] There is also controversy concerning the precise date of December 25 as the birthday of Jesus. In certain religions and myths, the 25th of December is the day assigned to the celebration of various sun gods. Most notably, Sol Invictus ("The Unconquerable Sun"), originally a Syrian god that was later adopted as the chief god of the Roman Empire under Emperor Aurelian, is traditionally celebrated on the 25th of December, as are several gods associated with the winter solstice in many pagan traditions.[61] However, it is possible that December 25 was simply set aside for celebration by Christians, since Jesus' exact birthdate is unknown.

At the very least Christians choose to place their date on the same day as another god's day was celebrated.

Seloth

Ya know the Church does acknowledge that he was born more likely around spring than December.And this common knowledge for the most part that Christmas was pushed into what date it is now for pre-Christan "Pagans",Heck we were taught that in primary and secondary school religion.

Irjudge1

Tha Gopher wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63636991&posted=1#post63636991


Just wondering in the old festive season, do you

1- Carry on the old Christianity is hatred mantra and refuse to give/ accept presents

or

2- Hate Christianity but ignore your beliefs to join in Crimbo for the great piss up that it is, great family dinner and re appoint it as a non religious day of goodwill to your fellow man


If you choose option 2, Im intrigued to know why, given that the church is apparently such a vile influence on the world. Personally I find a hatred of religion and an embracing of xmas to be laughable, surely you should organise a random day elsewhere in the year?

I can imagine the response, "aw, cos all the other kids in my sons/ daughters class get christmas presents". Surely if all the other kids in the class get their big day out for communion and confirmation, so should yours by that logic? Santa is, after all, a character from Christian mythology. If you are a commited athiest and hate christian teaching in schools, Santa is mickey mouse offensive harmful nonsense that your kids should not be exposed to, end of debate.

btw to point out, Im a Catholic by birth and I havent even been to Christmas mass in 7 odd years, but I find the contradictions of hardcore athiesm hilarious. I dont do anything half- Ramadan during Ramadan just to join in, if you despise Christinaity why hold a half celebration of gift giving/ receiving at this time of year?

Dying to hear it

There are Hardcore Atheists? Wow. Merry Christmas.

Pushtrak

Irjudge1 wrote: »

There are Hardcore Atheists? Wow. Merry Christmas.

Maybe we need to start a band?

scanlas

I'm an atheist and take part in the Christmas traditions simply because it's more enjoyable to do so than not to.

philologos

Tha Gopher wrote: »

Come on (and by your statement, you seem to be acknowledging that Jesus was a real person born in a September at some point in our history)

Very few people including atheists doubt that Jesus lived. The main area of contention is whether or not the New Testament is reliable, or whether Jesus really is what He said He was if we are to take the Gospel accounts seriously.

mayordenis wrote:

Jesus almost certainly existed, just not as "special" as some of you lot think, maybe a different kind of "special".

Do you mind if I ask why do you think this? I can sympathise with such thinking to a certain degree because it was very much the same stance I took to Jesus and God a few years ago.

Seloth

Sher my friend,whos family is completly muslim celebrate Christmas,putting up the decorations and stuff etc.

I see allot of people are saying that its no longer about Jesus but tbh it never really was,Sure its ment to celebrate his "Birthday" but the deeper meaning of family bonding and people coming together seems to be the over all sense to it,as the way we celebrate it now.A mother,father and child huddled together in a bbarn or whatever and sheppards and kings,nearly an obviouse push at class diffence as well showing how they all come together...Were now its familys and friends...or like in the film last night about the WWI soldiers comming together for peace and celebration...Tis like Easter and Life,thus why we have choclate eggs...Dont ask me to explain the fecking Easter bunny though

Holidays and traditions change,sure look at the siege of Derry,once celebrated by all it over time turned into a biased political celebration in the last 19 right through the 20th century until near its end.Halloween once celebrated as a "Pagan" New year is now...well masks and sweets ^^

WorldWontListen

Tha Gopher wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63636991&posted=1#post63636991


Just wondering in the old festive season, do you

1- Carry on the old Christianity is hatred mantra and refuse to give/ accept presents

or

2- Hate Christianity but ignore your beliefs to join in Crimbo for the great piss up that it is, great family dinner and re appoint it as a non religious day of goodwill to your fellow man

Huh?

What does a Christian Christmas have to do with having a piss up and a great family dinner ? Thats what us pagans do to have a laugh and make light of the nonsense that the poor unfortunates believe about Jebus's birthday.

The Christmas you enjoy was invented a long time ago by our commercially minded friends in companies like Coca Cola. Its just an elaborate myth based on old pagan beliefs mixed with some dodgy Christian legends, but ultimately hijacked by the modern western world as an excuse to have a bit of fun (and make money).

I know Santa Claus is about as real as "God", but I still bring my 5 year old nephew to see him. You see its ok for a 5 year old to believe in a man in the sky who watches you all the time during the whole year to see if you are good or bad !

Its when adults believe it that the problems start.

Happy Christmas !

philologos

If all people can do is slander Christianity without providing much reason to do so, we must be doing okay.

Seloth

Nah they'll point out the pedo priests again...and the Crusades....Just reply with the Soviet Union lol

Handsome Bob

I do understand the point of the OP, regardless of the factual background of Christmas, the fact still remains that we're not getting time off, presents, time with the family etc etc because of a Pagan festival. Ask the government why it's a national holiday and they won't say because of Paganism. So in my humble opinion bringing the origins of the date into the fold is pointless, you're still enjoying this time because of a Christian holiday.

As for me, I'm not religious but I will take part in the festivities. However, I won't be losing any sleep over my "hypocritical" stance.

Cabaal

Jakkass wrote: »

If all people can do is slander Christianity without providing much reason to do so, we must be doing okay.

So your saying all statments made in people's replys are untrue?

slan·der (slndr)
n.
1. Law Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
2. A false and malicious statement or report about someone.

I beg to differ, there's alot of facts about Christianity in this thread, sure there's some harsh remarks made but its unfair and "unchristian" to simply label all posts in this thread as slander.

Cabaal

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Ask the government why it's a national holiday and they won't say because of Paganism.

No they won't but it is down to a celebrated day, but not all celebrated religious faith days are national holidays either....if that was the case we'd have every religious day off but in this day and age its only the schools that really get them off

Why because religion is unfortunately still heavily linked to schools, given enough time and progress in this country this will stop though

WorldWontListen

Jakkass wrote: »

If all people can do is slander Christianity without providing much reason to do so, we must be doing okay.

Hmmmmm, riiiiight.... not sure if one of the gifts the Lord blessed you with was the gift of logic or reasoning. *



* Disclaimer - all comments should be taken in good jest and do not constitute personal attacks. Goodwill to all men, thats what I say! It is Christmas after all.

philologos

Cabaal wrote: »

So your saying all statments made in people's replys are untrue?

Not all. A lot of them are though, or at the very least ill informed distortions of the facts.

It's widely accepted that we honour Christmas on a date other than his actual birth. It doesn't particularly trouble me in the slightest, I will use this date along with millions of other world Christians to celebrate the coming of Jesus our Saviour.

Cabaal wrote: »

I beg to differ, there's alot of facts about Christianity in this thread, sure there's some harsh remarks made but its unfair and "unchristian" to simply label all posts in this thread as slander.

There's nothing un-Christian about truly regarding most of the comments here as being slanderous. It's the truth.

Liam Byrne

WorldWontListen wrote: »

I know Santa Claus is about as real as "God", but I still bring my 5 year old nephew to see him[\b]. You see its ok for a 5 year old to believe in a man in the sky who watches you all the time during the whole year to see if you are good or bad !

Santa Claus or God ?

Seloth

Ya grrr...One guy said the santa thing with Cocacola was true...followed by fact or proven or wahtever....but he never gave a link of sorts...grrr mumble mumble...I know for a fact that its a rumour...Proven!

bnt

The OP presents two options, both of which assume hatred of Christmas by Atheists. Well, what do I do with that? File under the phony "War on Christmas", I guess, behind Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh.

I don't hate Christmas. I don't hate Christians. I don't hate Christianity. I think Christianity, like religion, is harmful, for the same reason I think Stalinism was harmful: it is Dogma that requires you to follow the orders of your Leaders, and hate those who don't share your beliefs - whether religious or otherwise.

I'm going to celebrate this Christmas with friends. Not because I've been told to, but because celebrating is better with family, and friends, and society - and so it makes sense to pick a date everyone agrees on, so we can all do our celebrating at the same time. :pac:

Dyr

LZ5by5 wrote: »

you're still enjoying this time because of a Christian holiday.

Nah, we're enjoying it because Charles Dickens was widely read a few hundred years ago.

Cabaal

Jakkass wrote: »

It's widely accepted that we honour Christmas on a date other than his actual birth.

Is it?
I've sadly met very few really religious people that would accept this assertion, I know you and me know but the majority of people don't seem to fully accept this.

The OP certainly doesn't

It doesn't particularly trouble me in the slightest,

Which is great to be honest and it appears that atleast your open minded while still believing in your faith which is actually fantastic....I'm not being sarcastic here seriously

I myself celebrate Christmas for just the beginning of the longer days and for being off work, religion wise it means nothing to me personally but if people want to go to mass and all that they are welcome to

I will use this date along with millions of other world Christians to celebrate the coming of Jesus our Saviour.

Fair enough its part of your believe system and I'll respect you for it as long as you don';t try and push it on me or people that don't believe in this.

Its in much the same way you wouldn't like me pushing my "non religious beliefs on you", fair enough?

uncleoswald

Tha Gopher wrote: »

Santa is, after all, a character from Christian mythology. If you are a commited athiest and hate christian teaching in schools, Santa is mickey mouse offensive harmful nonsense that your kids should not be exposed to, end of debate.

Just wondering when you have ever seen santa as he is known today linked with christianity?

Just wondering in the old festive season, do you

1- Carry on the old Christianity is hatred mantra and refuse to give/ accept presents

or

2- Hate Christianity but ignore your beliefs to join in Crimbo for the great piss up that it is, great family dinner and re appoint it as a non religious day of goodwill to your fellow man


If you choose option 2, Im intrigued to know why, given that the church is apparently such a vile influence on the world. Personally I find a hatred of religion and an embracing of xmas to be laughable, surely you should organise a random day elsewhere in the year?

I have a feeling from the tone of your post that you would also b*tch about the people who choose option 1.

bah humbug.

Seloth

bnt wrote: »

The OP presents two options, both of which assume hatred of Christmas by Atheists.

No he dosent,he's on about Extremist Atheists

bnt wrote: »

I'm going to celebrate this Christmas with friends. Not because I've been told to:pac:

Whos told you too do it?Its not like the Vatican is going to kidnap you for not beig Christian and send you off to an island!..preferably craggy...or one with head hunters.

Cabaal

Seloth wrote: »

Ya grrr...One guy said the santa thing with Cocacola was true...followed by fact or proven or wahtever....but he never gave a link of sorts...grrr mumble mumble...I know for a fact that its a rumour...Proven!

Coca-Cola's advertising has significantly affected American culture, and it is frequently credited with inventing the modern image of Santa Claus as an old man in a red-and-white suit. Although the company did start using the red-and-white Santa image in the 1930s, with its winter advertising campaigns illustrated by Haddon Sundblom, the motif was already common.

Ok its open to debate but what is fact is Santa didn't wear a red and white coat, this is a relatively new addition to his wordrobe and there's nothing to suggest that any church had a part in this addition

WorldWontListen

Lets be honest here, we're not sure who invented Christmas.

We're not even sure if it was Santa's real birthday on Dec 25th, or if he was born on some other day. What we do know is that Christmas is about eating and drinking, having fun, giving presents, spending time with those you love. And thats all its about, nothing else.

And there is nothing any grumpy Christians can do to change that.

philologos

Cabaal wrote: »

Is it?
I've sadly met very few really religious people that would accept this assertion, I know you and me know but the majority of people don't seem to fully accept this.

The OP certainly doesn't

I didn't know until a few years ago, but when one is informed of how Christmas actually came into being it isn't obvious as to what it formerly was. Christmas in it's modern conception is regarded as a time to honour Jesus' coming into the world irrespective of whether or not it was his birthday.

Cabaal wrote: »

Which is great to be honest and it appears that atleast your open minded while still believing in your faith which is actually fantastic....I'm not being sarcastic here seriously

Well, I don't think regarding what is factual is a difficulty to my faith. The New Testament accounts of Matthew and Luke don't even suggest that Jesus was born during winter explicitly. Then again, what is winter like in the Holy Land anyway?

I don't believe that Christians should ignore factual truth while believing, but they should be attempting to show how their philosophy does represent Christianity.

Cabaal wrote: »

I myself celebrate Christmas for just the beginning of the longer days and for being off work, religion wise it means nothing to me personally but if people want to go to mass and all that they are welcome to

I'd rather that you didn't pretend to believe.

Cabaal wrote: »

Its in much the same way you wouldn't like me pushing my "non religious beliefs on you", fair enough?

Actually, I have a lot of time for an atheist who can put forward a reasonable argument.

I wouldn't say that I would push, but I certainly would get into discussions about Christianity with my friends (mostly initiated by them) especially in order to get them to think twice before dismissing something gratuitously.

Seloth

I've just be reminded of a a 1st year publicspeaking class where we discussed the comercialisation of Christmas and the teacher pointed this out,he used to wear brownand green coats.

just wondering when you have ever seen Santa as he is known today linked with Christianity?

St Nick :P

---

Man I hate religion talks on the internet...while in RL it's always the extremist theists,on the interwbz tis always extremist Atheists...well obviously not on the American christian sites lol.

These talks always seem to bring out the worst in people,as people didnent read or think etc....and end to a religion argument and let all Believers and Non believers...and does in between join together in christmas spirit...God/Science/Spagethhi Monster Bless everyone

uncleoswald

Seloth wrote: »

St Nick :P

"Known today" was the most important part of that quote.

Cabaal

Jakkass wrote: »

I don't believe that Christians should ignore factual truth while believing, but they should be attempting to show how their philosophy does represent Christianity.

I'd fully agree

I'd rather that you didn't pretend to believe.

I certainly don't pretend to believe in any religion, I'm always very upfront with mu views on religions in general and will never even suggest that I believe.

I however will enjoy the time off work and at home

Actually, I have a lot of time for an atheist who can put forward a reasonable argument.

I wouldn't say that I would push, but I certainly would get into discussions about Christianity with my friends (mostly initiated by them) especially in order to get them to think twice before dismissing something gratuitously.

Like religious people as with atheist's you can have both you can reason with logically and those that you can't,

Sadly I've met some religious people that accept everything said by a priest with blind faith....this worrys me as nothing from any organisation be it church or goverment shoiuld be taken with blind faith

Seloth

uncleoswald wrote: »

"Known today" was the most important part of that quote.

Yeah St Nick

and Caabal your one of the few Atheists that I've seen online that actually thinks,dont get me wrong I have come across others but they are rare in breed online,same for Theist.

In RL when ever I come across the extemist preachers I always seem to argue with em :P,Once one of them said when there was a group of us youngin's "I KNOW YOU!" pointing at me...My firend later joked about how like in the janitors room in scrubs,theres a Picture of me saying "HIM!" in like the preacher cave.

One of the most interesting discussions I've ahd was with the spiritual readers that are around Cork sometimes,my friend wanted to tyr them out so we sat with them and talked...and to my suprise they werent complete wackos!.While they do believe they can express to a person how God feels they dont take the bible word for word,they believe in evolution and all that jazz and reqinise how Christianity has been changed over the years etc...really nicee people,and they were young too,In 20's early 30's mst of them

diverdriver

Hi BNT, met you on PPRuNe a few times, Merry Christmas! (Love the idea that most people here won't know what we're on about):D

But to the point, militant or extremist atheists? What an idea? That's as bad as religious extremists. What's the point. Being an atheist simply means you have woken up to the realisation that there is no such thing as God and that religion makes as much sense as belief in Santa Claus and fairies. But I suppose militant atheists must exist, some people need to believe in something even if it's non belief.

But in a breathtaking example of hypocrisy. I got married in church, had my children Christened, will have a funeral mass (one day) and occasionally turn up in church. My kids will make their Communion and Confirmation and I celebrate Christmas, Easter and all the others.

You see all of those events are as much cultural as religious. These are our traditions, much modified by time but nevertheless traditional. Some are pagan in origin, some are not. I have no qualms about it because I believe that it's part of our identity, part of our civilisation.

Christmas notably has been taken up by other traditions, Japan being one and people of other non Christian religions celebrate it to some extent when living in the west, Jews, Muslims, Hindus. Why? Simply because, while it's Christian roots are obvious it's celebration is as much as anything about celebrating the end of the year and midwinter and about family and friends and community. The true meaning of Christmas.

Simply viewing it as a purely religious festival is to miss the point. So any atheist who sits at home sans Christmas tree and turkey tomorrow really needs to get a life.

Happy Christmas to you all.

Seloth

Great post^^

I tried to point out how the relgiouse aspect of things are part of our culuture in another thread but got quickly punced apon...hopefully the christmas connection will open some yes heh.

Theres no really problem...or trouble with Atheists and Theist...its only tose who seek it cause it