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To the militant athiests from this thread....

24567

Comments

  • #32
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,728 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Jakkass wrote: »
    If all people can do is slander Christianity without providing much reason to do so, we must be doing okay.

    So your saying all statments made in people's replys are untrue?
    slan·der (slndr)
    n.
    1. Law Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
    2. A false and malicious statement or report about someone.

    I beg to differ, there's alot of facts about Christianity in this thread, sure there's some harsh remarks made but its unfair and "unchristian" to simply label all posts in this thread as slander.
    :)


  • #33
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,728 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    LZ5by5 wrote: »
    Ask the government why it's a national holiday and they won't say because of Paganism.

    No they won't but it is down to a celebrated day, but not all celebrated religious faith days are national holidays either....if that was the case we'd have every religious day off but in this day and age its only the schools that really get them off :)

    Why because religion is unfortunately still heavily linked to schools, given enough time and progress in this country this will stop though :)


  • #34
    WorldWontListen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22 ✭WorldWontListen


    Jakkass wrote: »
    If all people can do is slander Christianity without providing much reason to do so, we must be doing okay.


    Hmmmmm, riiiiight.... not sure if one of the gifts the Lord blessed you with was the gift of logic or reasoning. *



    * Disclaimer - all comments should be taken in good jest and do not constitute personal attacks. Goodwill to all men, thats what I say! It is Christmas after all.


  • #35
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Cabaal wrote: »
    So your saying all statments made in people's replys are untrue?

    Not all. A lot of them are though, or at the very least ill informed distortions of the facts.

    It's widely accepted that we honour Christmas on a date other than his actual birth. It doesn't particularly trouble me in the slightest, I will use this date along with millions of other world Christians to celebrate the coming of Jesus our Saviour.
    Cabaal wrote: »
    I beg to differ, there's alot of facts about Christianity in this thread, sure there's some harsh remarks made but its unfair and "unchristian" to simply label all posts in this thread as slander.
    :)

    There's nothing un-Christian about truly regarding most of the comments here as being slanderous. It's the truth.


  • #36
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,152 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    WorldWontListen wrote: »
    I know Santa Claus is about as real as "God", but I still bring my 5 year old nephew to see him[\b]. You see its ok for a 5 year old to believe in a man in the sky who watches you all the time during the whole year to see if you are good or bad !

    Santa Claus or God ?


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  • #37
    Seloth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,038 ✭✭✭Seloth


    Ya grrr...One guy said the santa thing with Cocacola was true...followed by fact or proven or wahtever....but he never gave a link of sorts...grrr mumble mumble...I know for a fact that its a rumour...Proven!


  • #38
    bnt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,245 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    The OP presents two options, both of which assume hatred of Christmas by Atheists. Well, what do I do with that? File under the phony "War on Christmas", I guess, behind Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh.

    I don't hate Christmas. I don't hate Christians. I don't hate Christianity. I think Christianity, like religion, is harmful, for the same reason I think Stalinism was harmful: it is Dogma that requires you to follow the orders of your Leaders, and hate those who don't share your beliefs - whether religious or otherwise.

    I'm going to celebrate this Christmas with friends. Not because I've been told to, but because celebrating is better with family, and friends, and society - and so it makes sense to pick a date everyone agrees on, so we can all do our celebrating at the same time. :pac:

    Government resting upon the will and universal suffrage of the people has no anchorage except in the people's intelligence.

    — Grover Cleveland



  • #39
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    LZ5by5 wrote: »
    you're still enjoying this time because of a Christian holiday.

    Nah, we're enjoying it because Charles Dickens was widely read a few hundred years ago. :)


  • #40
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,728 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Jakkass wrote: »
    It's widely accepted that we honour Christmas on a date other than his actual birth.

    Is it?
    I've sadly met very few really religious people that would accept this assertion, I know you and me know but the majority of people don't seem to fully accept this.

    The OP certainly doesn't :)
    It doesn't particularly trouble me in the slightest,

    Which is great to be honest and it appears that atleast your open minded while still believing in your faith which is actually fantastic....I'm not being sarcastic here seriously :)

    I myself celebrate Christmas for just the beginning of the longer days and for being off work, religion wise it means nothing to me personally but if people want to go to mass and all that they are welcome to :)
    I will use this date along with millions of other world Christians to celebrate the coming of Jesus our Saviour.

    Fair enough its part of your believe system and I'll respect you for it as long as you don';t try and push it on me or people that don't believe in this.

    Its in much the same way you wouldn't like me pushing my "non religious beliefs on you", fair enough? :D


  • #41
    uncleoswald
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,618 ✭✭✭uncleoswald


    Tha Gopher wrote: »

    Santa is, after all, a character from Christian mythology. If you are a commited athiest and hate christian teaching in schools, Santa is mickey mouse offensive harmful nonsense that your kids should not be exposed to, end of debate.

    Just wondering when you have ever seen santa as he is known today linked with christianity?

    Just wondering in the old festive season, do you

    1- Carry on the old Christianity is hatred mantra and refuse to give/ accept presents

    or

    2- Hate Christianity but ignore your beliefs to join in Crimbo for the great piss up that it is, great family dinner and re appoint it as a non religious day of goodwill to your fellow man


    If you choose option 2, Im intrigued to know why, given that the church is apparently such a vile influence on the world. Personally I find a hatred of religion and an embracing of xmas to be laughable, surely you should organise a random day elsewhere in the year?

    I have a feeling from the tone of your post that you would also b*tch about the people who choose option 1.

    bah humbug.


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  • #42
    Seloth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,038 ✭✭✭Seloth


    bnt wrote: »
    The OP presents two options, both of which assume hatred of Christmas by Atheists.

    No he dosent,he's on about Extremist Atheists
    bnt wrote: »
    I'm going to celebrate this Christmas with friends. Not because I've been told to:pac:

    Whos told you too do it?Its not like the Vatican is going to kidnap you for not beig Christian and send you off to an island!..preferably craggy...or one with head hunters.


  • #43
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,728 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Seloth wrote: »
    Ya grrr...One guy said the santa thing with Cocacola was true...followed by fact or proven or wahtever....but he never gave a link of sorts...grrr mumble mumble...I know for a fact that its a rumour...Proven!
    Coca-Cola's advertising has significantly affected American culture, and it is frequently credited with inventing the modern image of Santa Claus as an old man in a red-and-white suit. Although the company did start using the red-and-white Santa image in the 1930s, with its winter advertising campaigns illustrated by Haddon Sundblom, the motif was already common.

    Ok its open to debate but what is fact is Santa didn't wear a red and white coat, this is a relatively new addition to his wordrobe and there's nothing to suggest that any church had a part in this addition


  • #44
    WorldWontListen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22 ✭WorldWontListen


    Lets be honest here, we're not sure who invented Christmas.

    We're not even sure if it was Santa's real birthday on Dec 25th, or if he was born on some other day. What we do know is that Christmas is about eating and drinking, having fun, giving presents, spending time with those you love. And thats all its about, nothing else.

    And there is nothing any grumpy Christians can do to change that.


  • #45
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Is it?
    I've sadly met very few really religious people that would accept this assertion, I know you and me know but the majority of people don't seem to fully accept this.

    The OP certainly doesn't :)

    I didn't know until a few years ago, but when one is informed of how Christmas actually came into being it isn't obvious as to what it formerly was. Christmas in it's modern conception is regarded as a time to honour Jesus' coming into the world irrespective of whether or not it was his birthday.
    Cabaal wrote: »
    Which is great to be honest and it appears that atleast your open minded while still believing in your faith which is actually fantastic....I'm not being sarcastic here seriously :)

    Well, I don't think regarding what is factual is a difficulty to my faith. The New Testament accounts of Matthew and Luke don't even suggest that Jesus was born during winter explicitly. Then again, what is winter like in the Holy Land anyway?

    I don't believe that Christians should ignore factual truth while believing, but they should be attempting to show how their philosophy does represent Christianity.
    Cabaal wrote: »
    I myself celebrate Christmas for just the beginning of the longer days and for being off work, religion wise it means nothing to me personally but if people want to go to mass and all that they are welcome to :)

    I'd rather that you didn't pretend to believe.
    Cabaal wrote: »
    Its in much the same way you wouldn't like me pushing my "non religious beliefs on you", fair enough? :D

    Actually, I have a lot of time for an atheist who can put forward a reasonable argument.

    I wouldn't say that I would push, but I certainly would get into discussions about Christianity with my friends (mostly initiated by them) especially in order to get them to think twice before dismissing something gratuitously.


  • #46
    Seloth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,038 ✭✭✭Seloth


    I've just be reminded of a a 1st year publicspeaking class where we discussed the comercialisation of Christmas and the teacher pointed this out,he used to wear brownand green coats.
    just wondering when you have ever seen Santa as he is known today linked with Christianity?

    St Nick :P
    Man I hate religion talks on the internet...while in RL it's always the extremist theists,on the interwbz tis always extremist Atheists...well obviously not on the American christian sites lol.

    These talks always seem to bring out the worst in people,as people didnent read or think etc....and end to a religion argument and let all Believers and Non believers...and does in between join together in christmas spirit...God/Science/Spagethhi Monster Bless everyone


  • #47
    uncleoswald
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,618 ✭✭✭uncleoswald


    Seloth wrote: »


    St Nick :P

    "Known today" was the most important part of that quote.


  • #48
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,728 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Jakkass wrote: »
    I don't believe that Christians should ignore factual truth while believing, but they should be attempting to show how their philosophy does represent Christianity.

    I'd fully agree

    I'd rather that you didn't pretend to believe.

    I certainly don't pretend to believe in any religion, I'm always very upfront with mu views on religions in general and will never even suggest that I believe.

    I however will enjoy the time off work and at home


    Actually, I have a lot of time for an atheist who can put forward a reasonable argument.

    I wouldn't say that I would push, but I certainly would get into discussions about Christianity with my friends (mostly initiated by them) especially in order to get them to think twice before dismissing something gratuitously.

    Like religious people as with atheist's you can have both you can reason with logically and those that you can't,

    Sadly I've met some religious people that accept everything said by a priest with blind faith....this worrys me as nothing from any organisation be it church or goverment shoiuld be taken with blind faith


  • #49
    Seloth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,038 ✭✭✭Seloth


    uncleoswald wrote: »
    "Known today" was the most important part of that quote.

    Yeah St Nick :p

    and Caabal your one of the few Atheists that I've seen online that actually thinks,dont get me wrong I have come across others but they are rare in breed online,same for Theist.

    In RL when ever I come across the extemist preachers I always seem to argue with em :P,Once one of them said when there was a group of us youngin's "I KNOW YOU!" pointing at me...My firend later joked about how like in the janitors room in scrubs,theres a Picture of me saying "HIM!" in like the preacher cave.

    One of the most interesting discussions I've ahd was with the spiritual readers that are around Cork sometimes,my friend wanted to tyr them out so we sat with them and talked...and to my suprise they werent complete wackos!.While they do believe they can express to a person how God feels they dont take the bible word for word,they believe in evolution and all that jazz and reqinise how Christianity has been changed over the years etc...really nicee people,and they were young too,In 20's early 30's mst of them


  • #50
    diverdriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 987 ✭✭✭diverdriver


    Hi BNT, met you on PPRuNe a few times, Merry Christmas! (Love the idea that most people here won't know what we're on about):D

    But to the point, militant or extremist atheists? What an idea? That's as bad as religious extremists. What's the point. Being an atheist simply means you have woken up to the realisation that there is no such thing as God and that religion makes as much sense as belief in Santa Claus and fairies. But I suppose militant atheists must exist, some people need to believe in something even if it's non belief.

    But in a breathtaking example of hypocrisy. I got married in church, had my children Christened, will have a funeral mass (one day) and occasionally turn up in church. My kids will make their Communion and Confirmation and I celebrate Christmas, Easter and all the others.

    You see all of those events are as much cultural as religious. These are our traditions, much modified by time but nevertheless traditional. Some are pagan in origin, some are not. I have no qualms about it because I believe that it's part of our identity, part of our civilisation.

    Christmas notably has been taken up by other traditions, Japan being one and people of other non Christian religions celebrate it to some extent when living in the west, Jews, Muslims, Hindus. Why? Simply because, while it's Christian roots are obvious it's celebration is as much as anything about celebrating the end of the year and midwinter and about family and friends and community. The true meaning of Christmas.

    Simply viewing it as a purely religious festival is to miss the point. So any atheist who sits at home sans Christmas tree and turkey tomorrow really needs to get a life.

    Happy Christmas to you all.


  • #51
    Seloth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,038 ✭✭✭Seloth


    Great post^^

    I tried to point out how the relgiouse aspect of things are part of our culuture in another thread but got quickly punced apon...hopefully the christmas connection will open some yes heh.

    Theres no really problem...or trouble with Atheists and Theist...its only tose who seek it cause it :o


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  • #52
    NoQuarter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,624 ✭✭✭NoQuarter


    I despise christianity, I think its all utter nonsence. But I love celebratng christmas for the reasons that have been covered in the thread already.

    If i go to church for a funeral or wedding or whatever, I go through the motions of kneeling and standing as I dont feel the need to announce my disbelief to the whole world, I know in y own mind that its all rubbish and im happy with that!

    As for santa, when did he become anything else but an idol for children and a symbol for joy for them? That question is rhetorical by the way. Its fun to believe in him, it makes xmas better, if christianity created him, good for them! I dont have to believe in the whole package to enjoy one aspect of it! After all, being such a large organisation they have to come up with something good right? (ps, anyone else see the funny side of the christian claims to have created santa, the mythical figure, ie, their good at creating mythical figures no? )

    And the real beauty of it is that if im contradicting religious facts or whatever, i dont really care because im an autonomous person and dont accept the teachings of a much less developed civilisation than we are now unless they can be confirmed!

    Merry xmas and cheers to Darwin our saviour!


  • #53
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    diverdriver wrote: »
    But to the point, militant or extremist atheists? What an idea? That's as bad as religious extremists. What's the point. Being an atheist simply means you have woken up to the realisation that there is no such thing as God and that religion makes as much sense as belief in Santa Claus and fairies. But I suppose militant atheists must exist, some people need to believe in something even if it's non belief.

    The term "woken up" could also be used in a "waking up" to the reality of a living God. :)
    king-stew wrote:
    Im a christian, yet i despise christianity, I think its all utter nonsence. But I love celebratng christmas for the reasons that have been covered in the thread already.

    In what sense?


  • #54
    Dragan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,497 ✭✭✭✭Dragan


    Tha Gopher wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63636991&posted=1#post63636991


    Just wondering in the old festive season, do you

    1- Carry on the old Christianity is hatred mantra and refuse to give/ accept presents

    or

    2- Hate Christianity but ignore your beliefs to join in Crimbo for the great piss up that it is, great family dinner and re appoint it as a non religious day of goodwill to your fellow man


    If you choose option 2, Im intrigued to know why, given that the church is apparently such a vile influence on the world. Personally I find a hatred of religion and an embracing of xmas to be laughable, surely you should organise a random day elsewhere in the year?

    I can imagine the response, "aw, cos all the other kids in my sons/ daughters class get christmas presents". Surely if all the other kids in the class get their big day out for communion and confirmation, so should yours by that logic? Santa is, after all, a character from Christian mythology. If you are a commited athiest and hate christian teaching in schools, Santa is mickey mouse offensive harmful nonsense that your kids should not be exposed to, end of debate.

    btw to point out, Im a Catholic by birth and I havent even been to Christmas mass in 7 odd years, but I find the contradictions of hardcore athiesm hilarious. I dont do anything half- Ramadan during Ramadan just to join in, if you despise Christinaity why hold a half celebration of gift giving/ receiving at this time of year?

    Dying to hear it :)

    For a lot of people, Christmas has transcended the idea of a saviour born into poverty and has become a time for buying stuff.

    It is what it is.

    I reckon a lot of Catholics do Halloween, if you get me.


  • #55
    genericguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,831 ✭✭✭genericguy


    mardybumbum wrote: »
    Its quite easy to do actually.
    Im an athiest and I quite enjoy christmas.
    Sure It isnt even about Jesus anymore.
    My family will not be going to mass on christmas morning, we haven't put a star or angel on top of our tree, and you wont find a crib in our house.
    Im looking forward to the cider, chocolate and presents. :D

    +1

    i hate the church, and i feel genuinely sorry for those who swallow the shyte it tells them. however, christmas is a time to spend away from work, having fun with people you like. i couldn't give a fcuk if that coincides with the supposed birth of jaysus. btw, there'd have been no shepherds with lambs if jaysus was born in december, the palestinian winter is fcuking freezing.


  • #56
    bnt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,245 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    Seloth wrote: »
    No he dosent,he's on about Extremist Atheists
    The way "militant" and "extremist" gets bandied about by those with religion, they're including any atheist who says anything at all. I may be nice and polite about it, but since I refuse to sit down and shut up, I'm an extremist, according to many. I'm not exaggerating ... well, maybe a little.

    I blame Richard Dawkins for introducing the word "militant" in to the discourse, even though he's not exactly "militant" himself - he's written about his Christmas celebrations more than once already. I've read Hitchens' God Is Not Great, and even he doesn't come across as irrational or hateful, since he backs up his assertions with facts. The thing that makes Dawkins, and Hitchens (and me) "militant" is that they don't accept that any religion, Christianity or other, deserves a privileged place in society, and are not shy about saying so. That doesn't mean we can't enjoy Christmas, though.

    edit: perhaps I've been watching too much of the "War on Christmas" crap coming out of the USA, such as this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVkq59sFNnc


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y3x_cJyRqI

    Government resting upon the will and universal suffrage of the people has no anchorage except in the people's intelligence.

    — Grover Cleveland



  • #57
    Seloth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,038 ✭✭✭Seloth


    Jakkass wrote: »
    The term "woken up" could also be used in a "waking up" to the reality of a living God. :)



    In what sense?



    Probabl in that he believe in God and Jesus but that he finds allot of it utter toss...Im pretty much the same and I'm open to the fact as well that God is also probably non existant....thus problaiming ymself as an open theist or border agnostic.Like the foundation of organised religion is a contradiction,Tis why it gts such a bad name,if people could discover it for themselves...instead people go as they feel they should,bored out of their mind ,these teachings going on not paid attention too.


    Like kneeling and standing up..whats the fecking point,I get the symbolism for the bread and wine but allot of mass is phoeey


    and I refer to extremist as in forcing ideas or blatently disreguarding...not those who stand up for what they believe in.


  • #58
    NoQuarter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,624 ✭✭✭NoQuarter


    Jakkass wrote: »

    In what sense?

    Christened and confirmed, a social thing really, i was too young to realise.

    Perhaps I should have said im catholic instead.


  • #59
    NoQuarter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,624 ✭✭✭NoQuarter


    Seloth wrote: »
    Probabl in that he believe in God and Jesus but that he finds allot of it utter toss.

    Hi seloth, no I dont believe for one second in god or an afterlife or any of it!


  • #60
    Seloth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,038 ✭✭✭Seloth


    lol thenyou cant really call yourself Christian,Like you cna say you were raised by it,but to claim to be christian and not believe in its core belifes is well a contradicition.


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  • #61
    NoQuarter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,624 ✭✭✭NoQuarter


    Seloth wrote: »
    lol thenyou cant really call yourself Christian,Like you cna say you were raised by it,but to claim to be christian and not believe in its core belifes is well a contradicition.

    Your right, but i didnt mean i am a practising one, i meant I was raised as one and have made communion and my confirmation, bad choice of terms on my behalf, but also note in my post, I said that if I contradict myself, i dont really care! :)

    But to clarify, i am on paper, but I am completely against the idea!


This discussion has been closed.
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