N21 Thread

mk6705

After the Castleisland bypass there's only one more link left in the chain - Abbeyfeale to Adare. While it may not be started for years, it's nice to see that there's now a very good standard of road all the way inside Kerry. I would say there's definitely a case for upgrading the entire route inside Kerry to 2+2, it would deliver value for money anyway. Progress is being made at least, as slow as it is.

Tech3

About 10 years ago the N21 in most part through Kerry was an absolute deathtrap. Headleys bridge was a notorious blackspot and Castleisland to Tralee was rubbish. The minor realignments at both sides of Castleisland felt like high quality runways at the time given how bad the rest of the road was. The upgrade has been astonishing with Castleisland- Abbeyfeale, Castleisland-Ballycarthy, Ballycarthy-Tralee and now finally the Castleisland bypass.

fresca

I reckon that castleisland to abbeyfeale could be upgraded to 2+2 "relatively" easily. For the most part, there is significant margin on either side.

Adro947 wrote: »

After the Castleisland bypass there's only one more link left in the chain - Abbeyfeale to Adare. While it may not be started for years, it's nice to see that there's now a very good standard of road all the way inside Kerry. I would say there's definitely a case for upgrading the entire route inside Kerry to 2+2, it would deliver value for money anyway. Progress is being made at least, as slow as it is.

mk6705

fresca wrote: »

I reckon that castleisland to abbeyfeale could be upgraded to 2+2 "relatively" easily. For the most part, there is significant margin on either side.

Absolutely and Tralee to Ballycarty is nearly wide enough for HQDC (that's nearly)...maybe 2+2 with a little hard shoulder is possible, or a wider margin.

Ballycarty to Castleisland is wide enough also, might take a small amound of widening but I reckon it's possible.

fresca

http://www.radiokerry.ie/news/

Route of new Adare-Abbeyfeale Road to be revealed by end of year

The route for a new 400 million euro road from Adare to Abbeyfeale will be revealed before the end of the year.
Limerick County Council says the National Roads Authority and the Mid West National Roads Designs Office will unveil their preferred route by the end of next month.
Three routes have been identified as possible options on the main Kerry to Limerick Road.
A protest group - the N21 Route Action Association - has argued that instead of building a new road, Abbeyfeale and Newcastle West should be bypassed thereby saving money.
Limerick County Council rejects this.
It says the new road will be a dual carriage - not a tolled motorway.

dubhthach

I think they announced the preferred route for the M6 in Galway about 3years before they started construction so I wouldn't hold my breath regarding when construction would actually start on the N21

Chris_5339762

And for any reason of sanity, this cant be touched until at least 2015, because if things to go plan (ha), the M20 North and Adare bypass would start then.

You simply cant have Adare sandwiched between two bits of DC/motorway, the PPP has to go ahead before Adare to Abbeyfeale is touched.

L1011

We had Abbeyleix virtually sandwiched between two bits of HQDC...

Chris_5339762

Thats true but there was about 30km of it. With the Adare case it would be what, about 8-10km, much closer to both ends of DC/motorway?

Zoney

Adro947 wrote: »

After the Castleisland bypass there's only one more link left in the chain - Abbeyfeale to Adare. While it may not be started for years, it's nice to see that there's now a very good standard of road all the way inside Kerry. I would say there's definitely a case for upgrading the entire route inside Kerry to 2+2, it would deliver value for money anyway. Progress is being made at least, as slow as it is.

Really makes it look so ridiculous the state of N20 Limerick to Cork, an intercity route, when the roads in Kerry have had so much more attention.

dubhthach

Zoney wrote: »

Really makes it look so ridiculous the state of N20 Limerick to Cork, an intercity route, when the roads in Kerry have had so much more attention.

Pays to have a certain ex-FF member *cough* gombeen *cough* as a independent TD in your county it would seem! :rolleyes:

fresca

And N22 is crap also from county bounds to ballincollig...

Zoney wrote: »

Really makes it look so ridiculous the state of N20 Limerick to Cork, an intercity route, when the roads in Kerry have had so much more attention.

Tech3

Zoney wrote: »

Really makes it look so ridiculous the state of N20 Limerick to Cork, an intercity route, when the roads in Kerry have had so much more attention.

The old N21 through Kerry would have been worse than the current bad sections of the N20. I'm not saying it should have been more priority though.

fresca

tech2 wrote: »

The old N21 through Kerry would have been worse than the current bad sections of the N20. I'm not saying it should have been more priority though.

I agree.
The N20 must be upgraded first.
Then N22.
Finally make N12 2+2 to tie in with Abbeyfeale & newcastlewest bypass.
This is all way off in the distant future of course...

fresca

from http://www.radiokerry.ie/news/

West Limerick land owners left in limbo with no funding for new road

Land owners in west Limerick are being left in limbo as there's no money to proceed with a new road from Adare to Abbeyfeale.
The new road is to be a dual carriage, not a tolled motorway, and is expected to cost in the region of 400 million euro.
Three routes were identified as possible options on the main Kerry to Limerick Road, and the preferred route was to be revealed before the end of last year.
However until there's money available from the Department of Transport to proceed with the project, the preferred route won't be unveiled.
No money has been allocated to the project by the NRA this year.
Under law, all land covered by the three proposed routes can't be developed until the preferred one is chosen.
Newcastle West Fine Gael Cllr Jerome Scanlon feels this has serious repercussions for land owners along the proposed routes, especially farmers that want to expand their farms.
He feels if the project won't receive funding in the near future, this restriction on developing land should be lifted.

Amtmann

In fairness to Jerome Hughes, he has a point, though at the end of the day I disagree with him. I know a family similarly affected by the suspension of the N28 scheme. There are a few things they'd like to do with their land (building one-offs isn't one of them), but they can't because of the situation. It's very very frustrating for them.

dubhthach

If I read that straight the issue is not that they can't afford to do route selection but that until they have money to proceed with CPO etc they won't unveil the route? Are they afraid of a run on the land?

Tech3

I think the latest developments indicate that this project may be canned for the forseeable future while the Tralee bypass will start construction in the middle of this year. It will be one of the questions I will bring forward to a candidate running in the Kerry North/West Limerick constituency running up to the general election. The priorities are definately all wrong when it comes to some of the road schemes in this country and certainly in the midwest/south region.

mossieh

They kept putting off the route selection for this last year, is there now any will to make a decision on it?

ongarboy

http://radiokerry.ie/news/
West Limerick land owners welcome abandonment of proposed Abbeyfeale to Adare road
Land owners in West Limerick are welcoming the announcement that a proposed road from Abbeyfeale to Adare has been abandoned. The National Roads Authority told a meeting of Limerick County Council yesterday that the N21 project won't proceed as there is no funding available for it. Three routes had been identified for the 400 million euro dual carriageway.

Under law, some 45 kilometres of land covered by the three proposed routes couldn't be developed until one was chosen. Francis Collins from the N21 roads action group says locals are delighted this restriction has been lifted. Newcastle West Fine Gael Councillor Jerome Scanlon says shorter bypasses around each town would be a better option for the NRA

dubhthach

ongarboy wrote: »

http://radiokerry.ie/news/
West Limerick land owners welcome abandonment of proposed Abbeyfeale to Adare road
Land owners in West Limerick are welcoming the announcement that a proposed road from Abbeyfeale to Adare has been abandoned. The National Roads Authority told a meeting of Limerick County Council yesterday that the N21 project won't proceed as there is no funding available for it. Three routes had been identified for the 400 million euro dual carriageway.

Under law, some 45 kilometres of land covered by the three proposed routes couldn't be developed until one was chosen. Francis Collins from the N21 roads action group says locals are delighted this restriction has been lifted. Newcastle West Fine Gael Councillor Jerome Scanlon says shorter bypasses around each town would be a better option for the NRA

Just as well there is no market for new housing in current market otherwise each of the routes would be covered with one off houses before you could blink!

LK_Dave

ongarboy wrote: »

http://radiokerry.ie/news/
West Limerick land owners welcome abandonment of proposed Abbeyfeale to Adare road
Land owners in West Limerick are welcoming the announcement that a proposed road from Abbeyfeale to Adare has been abandoned. The National Roads Authority told a meeting of Limerick County Council yesterday that the N21 project won't proceed as there is no funding available for it. Three routes had been identified for the 400 million euro dual carriageway.

Under law, some 45 kilometres of land covered by the three proposed routes couldn't be developed until one was chosen. Francis Collins from the N21 roads action group says locals are delighted this restriction has been lifted. Newcastle West Fine Gael Councillor Jerome Scanlon says shorter bypasses around each town would be a better option for the NRA

I for one think its a pity that this road had been abandoned. The N21 is a very dangerous road from Sweeps Cross through NCW up to Barnagh. I hope Mr Collins and co can sleep well at night knowing it is only a matter of time before there is another death.

And on another point, I know a few farmers in the Knockderry area who were hoping this road was going to be the cashcow they have spent all their lives waiting for.

veryangryman

LK_Dave wrote: »

I for one think its a pity that this road had been abandoned. The N21 is a very dangerous road from Sweeps Cross through NCW up to Barnagh. I hope Mr Collins and co can sleep well at night knowing it is only a matter of time before there is another death.

Morbid but true

And when it happens, all well be able to say publicly is "rest in peace"

Amtmann

Scrapping of N21 road plan welcomed
CÍAN NIHILL


ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS and local landowners in Co Limerick have welcomed the scrapping of a proposed new road between Abbeyfeale and Adare.

The National Roads Authority told a meeting of Limerick County Council this week that the N21 project would not go ahead because there was no funding for it.

The decision means that a freeze can now be lifted on the development of lands that were under consideration as possible routes for the dual carriageway.

PlanBetter – a joint initiative of four environmental organisations, An Taisce, Friends of the Earth, Friends of the Irish Environment and Feasta – welcomed the roads authority’s decision.

Spokesman for the group James Nix said recent cuts in local road maintenance works were due to excessive motorway construction.
He expressed a hope that the move would “herald a change in policy to an emphasis on the maintenance, connectivity and accessibility to public transport”.

Separately, design plans for an additional junction on the proposed M20 motorway linking Cork and Limerick have been completed. Following a successful appeal by residents in July 2010, Buttevant, Co Cork, will now be served by a direct junction with the 80km stretch of motorway.
In previous plans, Buttevant was the only bypassed town on the route not to be served by a junction connection.

The new proposed layouts will be displayed in coming weeks in the M20 scheme design office in Gooldshill in Mallow, Co Cork.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0310/1224291779178.html

Sponge Bob

I see that James Nix is committed to telling the same big lie again and again on behalf of the greenies. I am almost getting nostalgic for Isaac

James Nix said recent cuts in local road maintenance works were due to excessive motorway construction.

The N21 was not to be a motorway. Conflating everything that happens in road policy....or does not happen in this case , with Motorway costruction is a lie James. Your insertion of "Motorway" into every utterance is a lie!!!

The Motorways are so new they incur no maintenance costs at all and are already paid for par a few retention payments .....to make sure we don't have to maintain them.

Any excess maintenance is on the low quality and dangerous 'old' netrowk like that deadly mountain west of Newcastle in winter. The next time someone dies on that I will make sure that I get the "James Nix" press release out blaming Motorway construction for the state of that particular road ....what what !! :cool:

antoobrien

Newcastle West Fine Gael Councillor Jerome Scanlon says shorter bypasses around each town would be a better option for the NRA

Isn't this the kind of thing people objected to in the 80s and 90s? the excuse then was that bypasses were going to cause the death of their towns because no traffic is coming through. Now they want to keep bad roads but build small bypasses that will probably end up being developed around causing more bypasses to be required (come back to claremorris in 20 years, especially if the n17 isn't dualled).

It think comments like this are shortsighted. I've asked it before but why do we have to wait to build something instead of planning things properly and building according to the plan?
Oh wait, i know the answer to this one:
That'd be doing it right and we can't do that, we're Irish!

dubhthach

antoobrien wrote: »

Isn't this the kind of thing people objected to in the 80s and 90s? the excuse then was that bypasses were going to cause the death of their towns because no traffic is coming through. Now they want to keep bad roads but build small bypasses that will probably end up being developed around causing more bypasses to be required (come back to claremorris in 20 years, especially if the n17 isn't dualled).

It think comments like this are shortsighted. I've asked it before but why do we have to wait to build something instead of planning things properly and building according to the plan?
Oh wait, i know the answer to this one:
That'd be doing it right and we can't do that, we're Irish!

I would put it down to "Short term thinking" that infects most Irish politicans (be they local or national). In there eyes it's better to get the short-term bandaid of a "small bypass" that can be delivered before the next election then actually doing it proper. This sort of thinking of course affects everything not just roads

mossieh

LK_Dave wrote: »

I for one think its a pity that this road had been abandoned. The N21 is a very dangerous road from Sweeps Cross through NCW up to Barnagh. I hope Mr Collins and co can sleep well at night knowing it is only a matter of time before there is another death.

And on another point, I know a few farmers in the Knockderry area who were hoping this road was going to be the cashcow .

On your first point, I'd say Mr Collins will sleep well knowing that unless he goes out and causes them himself, deaths on the N21 have nothing to do with him and to suggest otherwise is stupidity of the highest order. Incredible.

On your second point, are we supposed to feel sorry for farmers who miss out on a cash cow which would have been completely unearned and random? Because "they have spent all their lives waiting for" it? Are you serious? Have they nothing better to be doing? - Like farming? Do you feel sorry for everyone who doesn't win the lottery?
(note - I'm not entirely without sympathy for them - they do live in Knockaderry after all.)

LK_Dave

mossieh wrote: »

On your first point, I'd say Mr Collins will sleep well knowing that unless he goes out and causes them himself, deaths on the N21 have nothing to do with him and to suggest otherwise is stupidity of the highest order. Incredible.

On your second point, are we supposed to feel sorry for farmers who miss out on a cash cow which would have been completely unearned and random? Because "they have spent all their lives waiting for" it? Are you serious? Have they nothing better to be doing? - Like farming? Do you feel sorry for everyone who doesn't win the lottery?
(note - I'm not entirely without sympathy for them - they do live in Knockaderry after all.)

Well I’m glad to hear that he will sleep well, you may know him so you can pass on my good tidings. It should be noted that the cancelation of this road project had nothing to do with Mr Collins and Co nimby arguments but rather due to the current economic climate. However, if he had managed to block the road, why would it be “stupidity in the highest order” to lay some of the blame at his et al door for any future deaths? Let’s face it, it is only a matter of time before someone dies on this road again and I for one, as a relative of somebody who was killed on this road, would have like to see an alternative preferably at least a new dual carriage way.

I never instructed you how to feel for farmers, I just relayed what some had said to me in conversation. Which, to my knowledge, was no secret. But alas I think this maybe falling on deaf ears, as your comment about Knockaderry only goes to prove that you maybe the one suffering from “stupidity in the highest order”.

mossieh

LK_Dave wrote: »

Well I’m glad to hear that he will sleep well, you may know him so you can pass on my good tidings. It should be noted that the cancelation of this road project had nothing to do with Mr Collins and Co nimby arguments but rather due to the current economic climate. However, if he had managed to block the road, why would it be “stupidity in the highest order” to lay some of the blame at his et al door for any future deaths? Let’s face it, it is only a matter of time before someone dies on this road again and I for one, as a relative of somebody who was killed on this road, would have like to see an alternative preferably at least a new dual carriage way.

I never instructed you how to feel for farmers, I just relayed what some had said to me in conversation. Which, to my knowledge, was no secret. But alas I think this maybe falling on deaf ears, as your comment about Knockaderry only goes to prove that you maybe the one suffering from “stupidity in the highest order”.

Well I sympathise with your loss, like you I have also had a relative die on that road, my father was killed in a crash at Reens pike. However, the notion that I would blame Francis Collins or any other objector for his death in any way is absurd. He died due to making a poorly judged overtaking manoeuvre. No one else's fault. It doesn't lessen anyone's memory to state the facts plainly, the salient point is that most accidents are caused by poor judgement. To imply that anyone objecting to a route is reponsible in any way for a drivers mistake is in my opinion, ridiculous. It does a huge disservice to anyone who objects to any road project regardless of their motivation.

My comment about Knockaderry was tongue in cheek but the windfalls gained or lost by landowners along a route has nothing to do with the route selection and frankly your even mentioning it in your post which was ostensibly about road safety seemed odd.