Marmotte 2010

eggie

Planning on doing this. From those of you who have completed this in the past, any training/prep tips.

Looking at Jan start date for training program.

blorg

Cycle up hills as much as possible. If you can go somewhere in Continental Europe before the big day with proper mountains and cycle up them.

Mosiki

Devised a route which I'll need to complete handy enough if I want to do a Marmotte I guess:

Covers: Sally Gap, Shay Elliott, Slievemann, Wicklow Gap.

Anyone do this before and the Marmotte?

http://www.mapmyride.com/view_route?r=298126779602667213

Lumen

You might find this thread useful for challenging route suggestions.

niceonetom

Mosiki wrote: »

Devised a route which I'll need to complete handy enough if I want to do a Marmotte I guess:

Covers: Sally Gap, Shay Elliott, Slievemann, Wicklow Gap.

Anyone do this before and the Marmotte?

http://www.mapmyride.com/view_route?r=298126779602667213

That's not a particularly hard route. Only 2000m of climbing. The big M is 5000m. I'd be hoping to be doing something like the route you've outlined above pretty much every weekend by May or June.

Mosiki

thats my plan, every weekend. Get a few routes drawn up with more climbing in the mean time.

Edit: I think the elevation on mapmyride is off cause i done that once last year and it was over 2500m on the Garmin AFAIR, must check later to see.

blorg

Mosiki wrote: »

Devised a route which I'll need to complete handy enough if I want to do a Marmotte I guess:

Covers: Sally Gap, Shay Elliott, Slievemann, Wicklow Gap.

Anyone do this before and the Marmotte?

http://www.mapmyride.com/view_route?r=298126779602667213

Nice route. I've done similar but a fair bit more difficult in Wicklow but it doesn't even come close to the level of difficulty in the Marmotte, honestly.

Garmin metres mean nothing as they count every undulation as climbing. With the Marmotte it is basically all going up (for well over an hour at a time) or down.

niceonetom

Mosiki wrote: »

thats my plan, every weekend. Get a few routes drawn up with more climbing in the mean time.

Edit: I think the elevation on mapmyride is off cause i done that once last year and it was over 2500m on the Garmin AFAIR, must check later to see.

I'm sure the prospective marmoteers will be able work together to get some group spins going when the weather picks up. There's no shortage of mad men always up for an epic around here.

I think MMR used to use a more generous dataset/smoothing algorithm to generate elevation totals. Bikeroutetoaster gives more, and garmin is very generous indeed.

I think it's a bit moot though as I wouldn't really count the undulations (+20m then -20m) that account for an awful lot of any spin in Wicklow. What I'm really looking for is as much sustained climbing as possible. Over-and-backs of Slieve Mahn and Glenmalure would be a good way to accumulate time climbing, as would loops of Stocking Lane and Cruagh. Short climbs (and they're all short from an alpine perspective) do mean that you're never very far from a point where you'll get a chance to recover, or indeed be forced to recover as it's very hard to keep the heart rate up while descending... and recovery periods are very very well spaced on the Marmotte so hard spins on the flat will be part of the mix too... argh.

ROK ON

Eggie.

I am hoping to take next Thur off work. Not sure if you are still on for midweek spins. If so we can give something like those routes a shot, with the provisio being that I must be back in D15 by 330pm at the very latest.
I know you are a fair bit stronger than me on the climbs, but you are still very welcome to tag along.

DirkVoodoo

ROK ON wrote: »

Eggie.

I am hoping to take next Thur off work. Not sure if you are still on for midweek spins. If so we can give something like those routes a shot, with the provisio being that I must be back in D15 by 330pm at the very latest.
I know you are a fair bit stronger than me on the climbs, but you are still very welcome to tag along.

Not a marmotteer, but would I be able to tag along? Need to get some midweek spins and don't like going out on my lonesome

ROK ON

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Not a marmotteer, but would I be able to tag along? Need to get some midweek spins and don't like going out on my lonesome

Sure thing. I really hope to start early. Say 8am at bottom if Cruagh.
Anyway, we can talk at the quiz.
BTW, I am heading to a quiz tonite, so I will be able to see what I am like. Its been a while. But I came 2nd in the last quiz I was in (sorry for going OT).

Mosiki

I'm back working. Be in Guernsey next week mon - fri. I would be up for some night spins if anybody fancied? Even if it was only repeats of stocking lane, just to get the legs built up.

That would also give me good reason to buy the Exposure Maxx Daddy and i'm running out of reasons as it stays brighter longer every day now.

ROK ON

Mosiki wrote: »

I'm back working. Be in Guernsey next week mon - fri. I would be up for some night spins if anybody fancied? Even if it was only repeats of stocking lane, just to get the legs built up.

Very glad to hear that Eggie. Good for you.
I head out on evening spins twice a week if I can. One is Hill repeats of Three Rock, which can be fun (sortof).

Mosiki

7th Mar: Headed out to join the Orwell Sunday spin, tagged on to the medium group as there was a few boardsies there. Route was Dundrm - devils glen - laragh - sally gap - stocking lane - home.

120km, first time i seen sally gap in a few months and felt it too, suffered on the way home. The distance was fine, trying to keep pace with stronger/fitter riders at this point of the year was my downfall per usual. Slept like a log.

14th Mar: Route - city centre - dundrum - enniskerry - djouce - luggala - sally gap - devils elbow - dundrum - home. 80km. 4hrs.

Felt stronger than last week, hills weren't as painful as i expected but was pretty tired afterwards. Slight Improvement all the same climbing wise.

17th Mar: same route as 14th Mar, purposely did the same route to compare how it felt even though was close together. Felt stronger again on the climbs with lower heart rate than previously. Took 10 mins off previous time.

21st Mar: Route - city centre - dundrum - stocking lane - sally gap - laragh - wikclow gap - blessington - boherbreena - tallaght - home. 120km.

Decided to ride at a comfortable pace today on my own, not slow but not pushing it either, maintain an aerobic endurance heart rate of 155 - 165 bpm. Felt much stronger climbing than before, although this varied from 8 - 12 kph on various gradients, not setting the world on fire but i'm not worried about pace at the moment, distance and ascendng more important. 5hrs 50mins.

Didnt stop at laragh for food today which helped as I would normally feel full and lethargic when stepping back on the bike. Instead I took a sandwich, cut into 4 squares and wrapped separately, eating one every 20km on the way out (along with a bar every 40km), water and energy drink. This eating strategy suits me a lot better and think I'll maintain this in future.

Back to Guernsey tomorrow for 5 days with work. Good news is the hotel this time has a pool and gym so I can get a good weeks off-bike training done during the week which was lacking previously. Think i'll attempt Shay Elliott and Sleive Mann next week. Hopefully there wont be as many bikers speeding past as there was today on wicklow gap.

blorg

Mosiki wrote: »

21st Mar: Route - city centre - dundrum - stocking lane - sally gap - laragh - wikclow gap - blessington - boherbreena - tallaght - home. 120km.

Think I saw you at some point between the N81 and the Wicklow Gap, I was coming up the other side in an Orwell jacket, black Planet X.

Mosiki

blorg wrote: »

Think I saw you at some point between the N81 and the Wicklow Gap, I was coming up the other side in an Orwell jacket, black Planet X.

Yeah, realised it was you at last minute passing, you looked like you putting the effort in. (as opposed to myself lazily coasting down the hill).

LeoD

niceonetom wrote: »

That's not a particularly hard route. Only 2000m of climbing. The big M is 5000m. I'd be hoping to be doing something like the route you've outlined above pretty much every weekend by May or June.

:eek: Maybe people should clarify what level they're at to avoid frightening the bejaysus out of the rest of us? I'm doing the Marmotte and will probably do around 6/7 x 100 mile rides between now and July. My level is currently getting shelled out of A3 races after 20km How long would that ride above take you? 7hrs? Outside of my 100 milers I reckon 5hrs will be the longest I'll do any day.

blorg wrote: »

but it doesn't even come close to the level of difficulty in the Marmotte, honestly.

You seem a pretty capable cyclist with loads of endurance cycling experience - how did you find the Marmotte last year? A tough day or just plain torture? Any top tip you could share?

Sorry OP for taking this off topic slightly...

niceonetom

LeoD wrote: »

:eek: Maybe people should clarify what level they're at to avoid frightening the bejaysus out of the rest of us? I'm doing the Marmotte and will probably do around 6/7 x 100 mile rides between now and July. My level is currently getting shelled out of A3 races after 20km How long would that ride above take you? 7hrs? Outside of my 100 milers I reckon 5hrs will be the longest I'll do any day.

I really don't see why anyone planning on doing the Marmotte would be scared of a route like that in Wicklow. The route above might be knocking on the same length as the big M, but it's flat (comparatively)!!! You do like riding your bike don't you?

LeoD

niceonetom wrote: »

I really don't see why anyone planning on doing the Marmotte would be scared of a route like that in Wicklow. The route above might be knocking on the same length as the big M, but it's flat (comparatively)!!! You do like riding your bike don't you?

Doing a route like that a few times wouldn't bother me but every weekend seems a bit overkill? But I suppose it depends how fast you want to complete the Marmotte. I like riding my bike most of the time (not a fan of it with HR is above 98% max) but churning out long slow mileage every weekend does not hold much appeal. Quality not quantity is my notto.

I'll post back here in July and let you know how I got on...;)

niceonetom

Who said anything about slow? Quality and quantity. :P

ROK ON

On related topic. Is there any benefit to hill repeats on short climbs with crazy gradients.
Close to my home there are 2 2-3km climbs close to 15% on average. Thi king of this in relation to building ability to manage HR intense pressure as a way of helping one cope better with much longer climbs where the road maynot be as severe.

niceonetom

I dunno. Can't do any harm I suppose. Should build strength anyway, and ~10mins (or whatever) above threshold, repeated, never did anyone any harm*.

There's no way to properly simulate alpine (or pyrenean) climbs here so everything we do is non-specific to our task.

*may not be true.

Lumen

ROK ON wrote: »

On related topic. Is there any benefit to hill repeats on short climbs with crazy gradients.
Close to my home there are 2 2-3km climbs close to 15% on average. Thi king of this in relation to building ability to manage HR intense pressure as a way of helping one cope better with much longer climbs where the road may not be as severe.

Gradient is largely irrelevant. The things that matter IMO are: effort, cadence, fuelling and heat adaption.

mloc123

Lumen wrote: »

Gradient is largely irrelevant. The things that matter IMO are: effort, cadence, fuelling and heat adaption.

The fuelling is very much overlooked I'd imagine... you need your body to adapt to using fat for fuel.

Lumen

mloc123 wrote: »

The fuelling is very much overlooked I'd imagine... you need your body to adapt to using fat for fuel.

I don't know too much about that. I just think that if you're going to do long cycles you need to eat as much as you can physically digest whilst on the bike.

Caroline_ie

Lumen wrote: »

heat adaption.

Probably the hardest one to get used to while in Ireland ...

mloc123

Lumen wrote: »

I don't know too much about that. I just think that if you're going to do long cycles you need to eat as much as you can physically digest whilst on the bike.

I am only basing this on what I have read for Ironman training.. the body can only process about 2-300kals an hour, the rest needs to come from fat stores... which is what needs to be trained.

Caroline_ie

mloc123 wrote: »

I am only basing this on what I have read for Ironman training.. the body can only process about 2-300kals an hour, the rest needs to come from fat stores... which is what needs to be trained.

So it's ok to be fat? woooo!

mloc123

haha, even people at 5% have enough to fuel them for an event.. but it could be a good excuse

Caroline_ie

mloc123 wrote: »

haha, even people at 5% have enough to fuel them for an event.. but it could be a good excuse

yes but i am doing 4 that week ....

Caroline_ie

it's so much more satisfying to eat a piece of cake with a cup of tea while lounging in the living room ... you can't enjoy it going up a 3000m climb.
I think Grand trophee/Marmotte will be a great way for me to try out my new : 'Eat your cake before the marmotte not during' theory.

jwshooter

Caroline_ie wrote: »

it's so much more satisfying to eat a piece of cake with a cup of tea while lounging in the living room ... you can't enjoy it going up a 3000m climb.
I think Grand trophee/Marmotte will be a great way for me to try out my new : 'Eat your cake before the marmotte not during' theory.

I look forward to getting the book for Christmas

Lumen

Some interesting stuff on pacing and stats for the Marmotte.

It's a bit power meter specific, but on the basis that 1kJ=1 calorie, it gives about 5300 calories (real ones, not Garmin ones) for an experienced rider of something over 70kg completing the event in 7hr34.

blorg

LeoD wrote: »

:eek: Maybe people should clarify what level they're at to avoid frightening the bejaysus out of the rest of us? I'm doing the Marmotte and will probably do around 6/7 x 100 mile rides between now and July. My level is currently getting shelled out of A3 races after 20km How long would that ride above take you? 7hrs? Outside of my 100 milers I reckon 5hrs will be the longest I'll do any day.

You seem a pretty capable cyclist with loads of endurance cycling experience - how did you find the Marmotte last year? A tough day or just plain torture? Any top tip you could share?

The Marmotte was the hardest single day I have ever had on a bike. Nothing even comes close.

I came more from the endurance/long distance/like riding my bike up mountains side and started racing club league last year, open this year, so I am the opposite to you.

In the most general terms if you are an A3 racer (staying in the bunch?) you should be at the general fitness level to be fine with the Marmotte. But I would be careful to ensure that you have the endurance to keep plugging away for a long day in the saddle; unlike a typical race which is over in a few hours albeit at a higher intensity.

Ultimately you are going to need to be comfortable plugging away for much of a day at a reasonably hard effort.

At some point you will need to become familiar with doing this sort of effort for this length of time.

My worry if you are a full on racer not used to this sort of thing would be that if you don't do specific training for it you will attack and burn up on the Glandon. I was conscious of this myself and STILL put in too much effort on the first climb (and the flat bit after) and paid for it later.

If I can be any help let me know; I'd be interested in organising some training sessions for this, I am going over with Tom and Caroline and I am sure we will get organised. Ultimately it is a long day and you are going to have to do longer training sessions than you might be used to for racing.

In terms of intensity, as Tom said, no-one said slow. I don't think long and slow is necessarily bad BTW but come out for a 200 and we may be going fast enough One way or the other you will have to start getting those distances in and just getting used to being on the bike for basically a day.

keogh777

What kind of gears are people planning on using for the event. I was looking at a 34X28 but alot of people i know are saying your crazy doing it without a triple. But id rather walk than use a triple

E@gle.

keogh777 wrote: »

What kind of gears are people planning on using for the event. I was looking at a 34X28 but alot of people i know are saying your crazy doing it without a triple. But id rather walk than use a triple

i used a 34x25 and i was fine for it, screw the triple

blorg

It depends on a lot of factors including your weight and your preferred climbing style (I like to spin spin spin.) Remember it is a long long day with long long climbs and you may need relief that you just simply don't here.

I used 34x27 and was fine although there were certainly moments on the Galibier and the start of the Alpe that I would have taken a lower gear I don't think . I have a 11-28 cassette that I don't think I would ever use for anything else but I think I'll put it on for this year.

A lot of people doing it have triples, particularly the locals. Many of these guys were quite fast and got gold times. What's the shame in a triple if you are spinning past guys grinding up on a double?

Mosiki

No cycling this week unfortunately. Leaving the bike into cyclesuperstore for some needed work. New bottom bracket, chain and possibly a headset.

Front forks feel loose when rocking the bike while holding back brakes (not sure if this is normal, doubt it though), would explain the slight wobble when descending at speed.

Did hit a hole last week hard (twice), which i'm sure added to the misalignment. Have the bike a year now without any real servicing, so do no harm getting it primed for the summer. Better safe than sorry.

ROK ON

keogh777 wrote: »

What kind of gears are people planning on using for the event. I was looking at a 34X28 but alot of people i know are saying your crazy doing it without a triple. But id rather walk than use a triple

If you have a compact presently, and are contemplating using a 34/28, then you are getting a very similar gear ratio as a 30/25. I really dont understand this macho bullsh1t. If you need a 34/28 then you will be using much the same gearing as those weaklings on the triple. Have a look in the mirror pal, and be honest with yourself.
Its about gear inches and matters not on how you construct your gearing to achieve this.

keogh777

ROK ON wrote: »

If you have a compact presently, and are contemplating using a 34/28, then you are getting a very similar gear ratio as a 30/25. I really dont understand this macho bullsh1t. If you need a 34/28 then you will be using much the same gearing as those weaklings on the triple. Have a look in the mirror pal, and be honest with yourself.
Its about gear inches and matters not on how you construct your gearing to achieve this.

Wow relax, it was said with tounge in cheek, its not a macho thing more a cost thing. I can switch to a compact and put a 28 on the back for alot less money than converting to a triple.
There is nothing macho about sitting on the side of the road unable to continue becuase your overgeared. I was just trying to get a feel for what people on boards.ie are using for the event

niceonetom

I'm humming and hawing between a 12-27 and an 11-28. I like having the 11 on the decents, but the 28 makes things a bit gappy.

There is a duraace 11-27 but I cannot justify spending €134.65 on a cassette.

There are no bonus prises for using big gears as far as I know.

blorg

Basically you are either end of your gearing range for the whole thing; gappiness isn't really a problem. 11 would be useful for the descent off the Galibier, not really anywhere else.

Lumen

blorg wrote: »

Basically you are either end of your gearing range for the whole thing; gappiness isn't really a problem. 11 would be useful for the descent off the Galibier, not really anywhere else.

11-12-13-15-18-21-25-26-27-28

niceonetom

Lumen wrote: »

11-12-13-15-18-21-25-26-27-28

I'd buy that.

I experimented with a sram 11-28 in Andalusia some on long climbs (we got to do a couple of +1000m ones there) and the gappyness was a problem for me. I'm reluctant to give up the 11 though...

short circuit

niceonetom wrote: »

I'd buy that.

I experimented with a sram 11-28 in Andalusia some on long climbs (we got to do a couple of +1000m ones there) and the gappyness was a problem for me. I'm reluctant to give up the 11 though...

http://www.parker-international.co.uk/3981/Marchisio-Aviotek-Shimano-10-speed-Cassette.html

keogh777

niceonetom wrote: »

I'd buy that.

I experimented with a sram 11-28 in Andalusia some on long climbs (we got to do a couple of +1000m ones there) and the gappyness was a problem for me. I'm reluctant to give up the 11 though...

It will be one of the shimano options listed below for me. I like the 12-27 but both the 11 and 28 could be really useful on the day. But ten as you say the gaps. An 11-25 and a triple would cure some of the gaps but then theres the extra cost.

The 12-27 includes- 12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,24,27

The 11-27 includes- 11,12,13,14,15,17,19,21,24,27
The 11-28 includes- 11,12,13,14,15,17,19,21,24,28

Mosiki

Monday 5th: 80km - no real climbing other than Djouce, worked off the weekend beers if nothing else.

Saturday 10th: 80km - Djouce, Lugala, Sally Gap, Devils Elbow, Home.

Sunday (today) : 130km - Djouce, Lugala, Laragh, Wicklow Gap, Boherbreena, home.

Bonked about 25km from home, only so much sugary rich food you can eat, should have taken a sanwich like last time. Lesson learned. Climbing was grand yesterday and today, legs getting stronger, butg climbing only with more comfort and not a lot quicker.

Need to drop a stone before Marmotte, thats my next goal, which will undoubtably make the climbing easier and increase my power to weight ratio.

280km for the week, happy enough. Think I'll begin to get acquainted with shay elliott and slieve mann from next week onwards, certainly wont miss the fecking idiots on motorbikes on the wicklow gap.

Mosiki

Marmotte 2010 Route

Mosiki

wed 14th - 70km - 1000m

sat 17th - 130km - 2000m. First contact with Shay Elliott (twice) and Slieve Mann, return via Sally Gap. SE and SM are the most consistent and satisfying climbs i've done this year, no ups and downs really just a gradual up, up....

Hoping for a longer spin this weekend with a few more climbs thrown in. Proper prep required during the week, something like:

Mon - morn 30min swim, evening 30min lightweights, high reps
Tue - 2hr flat spin
Wed - morn 30min swim, evening 45min weights, lightweights, high reps
Thur - morn 1 hr swim
Fri - stretch and rest.
Sat - 170 km spin, 2500m climbing.

Will carb load thur evening and friday. See how this works out, its a long day no matter what so best to give it a decent shot. Furthest i've done this year so far is 130km x 3.

beans

I hope to be in better physical condition for my next assault on Glenmalure and Slievemann. I was a ball of muscle-spasm when I got home on Saturday, took an hour for my body to stop twitching. Good day though, thanks to yourself and Souter for the company. Need to work on my pacing

Mosiki

beans wrote: »

I hope to be in better physical condition for my next assault on Glenmalure and Slievemann. I was a ball of muscle-spasm when I got home on Saturday, took an hour for my body to stop twitching. Good day though, thanks to yourself and Souter for the company. Need to work on my pacing

Be going at it again this saturday if your up for it.