New Boards.ie Terms of Use and Privacy Policy - your feedback welcome

Darragh

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Terms of Use links don't work on the notice.

Yep, my fault, sorry! Fixed

PogMoThoin

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Terms of Use links don't work on the notice.

Yeah, I just came here to post the same thing, not working for me either,

admin fail

testicle

Term 5. Usernames
Contains any profanity, is vulgar or offensive, or promotes an illegal activity;

So, umm... am I going to be deleted?

Amalgam

I'm bothered by the 'Not so' Private Messages.

What is the access heirarchy foir example? Moderators and Admins, Admins only? what is the lenght of time, for storage and is there a point at which they self delete, from your end.

I can understand fully the need to store public information, to maintain and assess, tweak, statistically etc.. performance issues related to the forums.

I cannot however, see any benefits to the forum, relating to PM's (Private Messages)

If they're not private, by any means, then rename the feature and stop the pretence.

Boards need to flesh this 'feature' out, to reassure users.

Darragh

testicle wrote: »

Term 5. Usernames
Contains any profanity, is vulgar or offensive, or promotes an illegal activity;

So, umm... am I going to be deleted?

The Admin team will be addressing this in the new year. I'd *imagine* that most existing usernames are okay - however, they will ultimately make the decision

I think you'll probably be grand. Besides, your username doesn't really fall into any of those categories, does it?

Darragh

Amalgam wrote: »

I'm bothered by the 'Not so' Private Messages.

What is the access heirarchy foir example? Moderators and Admins, Admins only? what is the lenght of time, for storage and is there a point at which they self delete, from your end.

I can understand fully the need to store public information, to maintain and assess, tweak, statistically etc.. performance issues related to the forums.

I cannot however, see any benefits to the forum, relating to PM's (Private Messages)

If they're not private, by any means, then rename the feature and stop the pretence.

Boards need to flesh this 'feature' out, to reassure users.

Hi there

Private Messages can only be accessed by Ross and Conor, our techies, by delving into the database - and it is not something that they do, unless absolutely necessary.

Moderators, Admins, Community Managers and even Founders do not have access to your Private Messages unless they are reported, in which case only the Admin team can see them.

Does that help?

Darragh

the_syco

http://www.boards.ie/terms/privacy.php

User status wrote:

Please note that your user status will appear in connection with your username. For example, should you receive an infraction then a yellow should you be banned from using Boards.ie, the word “Banned” will appear under your username. Similarly, should you receive a warning relating to your use of Boards.ie, a yellow card will appear.

Sense, this make none.

Darragh

the_syco wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/terms/privacy.php

Please note that your user status will appear in connection with your username. For example, should you receive an infraction then a yellow should you be banned from using Boards.ie, the word “Banned” will appear under your username. Similarly, should you receive a warning relating to your use of Boards.ie, a yellow card will appear.

Sense, this make none.

Gah!! Thought that was fixed. Thanks. I'll get that sorted as soon as I can. It should read

Please note that your user status will appear in connection with your username. For example, should you be banned from using Boards.ie, the word “Banned” will appear under your username. Similarly, should you receive a warning relating to your use of Boards.ie, a yellow card will appear.

Fajitas!

7: The content you post on Boards.ie

You are solely responsible for your conduct and any Material that you submit, post, and/or display on Boards.ie. You agree not to post Material contrary to these Terms of Use. We may, but are not obliged to, remove or limit access to Material from any user which breaches these Terms of Use.

By posting any Material on or through Boards.ie, you grant us a limited license to use, modify, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce, and distribute such Materials in connection with Boards.ie or the promotion thereof.

The license you grant to us is non-exclusive, royalty free and fully paid, sub licensable, and worldwide.

You are responsible for making sure that you have all rights to what you post, including the rights necessary for you to grant the foregoing licenses to same.

You represent and warrant that: (i) you own the Material posted by you or otherwise have the right to grant the license set forth in this section, and (ii) the posting of the Material does not violate the privacy rights, publicity rights, copyrights, contract rights or any other rights of any person.

You agree to waive any moral rights in your Material for the purposes of its posting on Boards.ie and the purposes specified above.

I do have a bit of a problem query with this. I post mostly in the Photography forum, and would sometimes post photographs from my work*. While there is no problem with me posting/discussing the images onto a public forum, there would be a problem if these images were to be modified/displayed/distributed/reproduced for the promotion of Boards.ie - I would assume this would be a problem for other photographers in the same boat as myself. I presume it'd be a case of not needing any confirmation/agreement about the images being used either.




*To be honest, I think it'd apply to all photos I've posted here too though.

cooperguy

Darragh wrote: »

I will get absolute clarification on this for you, but basically:

What you put up is your responsibility and your (copyrighted) content.

We may ask you for permission to reproduce your work (in a presentation, for example) but we don't have to pay you for it. Basically you've chosen to put it on the site so we may decide to use it. That does NOT mean we will do this - we will always endeavour to ask permission.

You will not put anything up on Boards.ie that you say is yours but is not.

If you suggest something to help the site and you publish it and you say "here, I made this for you", don't come to us saying "give me money for it". If you want to do that, make it clear from the start. However, if you suggest something and we take it, we're under no obligation to pay you for it.

(though we probably will, anyways, if it's good enough)

Any clearer?

I normally dont get too worked up by this stuff and it probably wont impact me personally (due to lack of talent ) but am I right in saying that these terms dont in anyway stop Boards.ie taking for example pictures posted on the photography forum and stories written by users in the literature forum and putting it into a book called "The Money Making Scheme" and selling it to the general public. The terms do say that you can do what you want with the content without any payment.

I know ye dont intend on doing this but who knows who's in charge in 10 years? Maybe a little more clarification written into the terms would be good. Didnt some other big website get alot of negetive publicity and end up changing the terms back after doing somehing similar recently?

testicle

Darragh wrote: »

The Admin team will be addressing this in the new year. I'd *imagine* that most existing usernames are okay - however, they will ultimately make the decision

I think you'll probably be grand. Besides, your username doesn't really fall into any of those categories, does it?

I find it Vulgar. I also find your username Offensive. *

* I do neither, but terms such as these are open to interpretation.

What happened to the 7 days notice required? What happens if I do not agree with the new rules?

testicle

Fajitas! wrote: »

I do have a bit of a problem query with this. I post mostly in the Photography forum, and would sometimes post photographs from my work*. While there is no problem with me posting/discussing the images onto a public forum, there would be a problem if these images were to be modified/displayed/distributed/reproduced for the promotion of Boards.ie - I would assume this would be a problem for other photographers in the same boat as myself. I presume it'd be a case of not needing any confirmation/agreement about the images being used either.




*To be honest, I think it'd apply to all photos I've posted here too though.

I would have a major issue with this in regard to the Photography forum. I would imagine others who post there would too.

ThOnda

What? Oh my. So by posting my own copyrighted pictures here I shall by giving you rights to use and sell my pictures? I am talking mainly about the photography forum.

For the first, the new terms and conditions cannot be applied backwards, therefore you have no rights on my picture posted before new T&C appeared. And about new ones, I will have to consider avoiding posting pictures directly, only links, because that is the only way how to protect my copyright, as far as I understood it.

It really looks that the photography forum will be left with pictures of kittens taken by mobile phones :-/

Seriously, please, reconsider the T&C.

Darragh

We will clarify the copyright issue tomorrow, both here and in the photography forum.

We will *not* be using anyone's work without permission or credit.

Conor

Darragh wrote: »

We will *not* be using anyone's work without permission or credit.

Just to clarify, "using" in Darragh's post above means "using in any way other than using it to display it on the site and back it up and all the usual technical stuff required to actually make the site work".

The primary reason for giving us a license to your work (be it a photo or the text of a post) is that if you don't, we can't have it on the site. We can't ask your permission before every page is served so we need that license for the site to work.

If it helps, here is my (non-lawyerly) interpretation of the clause:

Original|By posting any Material on or through Boards.ie,| you grant us a limited* license to| use,|modify,| publicly perform,|publicly display,| reproduce, |and distribute|such Materials|in connection with Boards.ie|or the promotion thereof
My interpretation|By posting|you allow us to|use,|edit,|perform**,|serve via the web,|serve via the web/back up,|serve via the web|your content|on Boards|or when we pimp Boards***.


* I read the "limited" as "limited to stuff in connection with Boards.ie or the promotion thereof". Maybe some law talking guy can clear that up.
** Dramatic readings of the post of the day anyone?
*** Like if Vicki/Mark were selling ad space on Boards and had excerpts of posts in a presentation or something. Or if Darragh/Dav were on TV/radio and read out some posts.

cooperguy

Darragh wrote: »

We will clarify the copyright issue tomorrow, both here and in the photography forum.

We will *not* be using anyone's work without permission or credit.

The point is whether the terms means that you could if you wanted to, not what you plan on doing. Your great but what happens when you retire and EvilDarragh comes in as your replacement?

Another example would be the mobile phone forum. There was a great program posted there that lets you send your webtexts from your desktop. Would these terms mean you could take that program burn it on to disks and sell it in Easons or put it up on an apps store.

<edit> Again Conor that is a valid interpretation, the only problem being it could be just as easily interpreted as I did above.

Fajitas!

Conor wrote: »

Original|By posting any Material on or through Boards.ie,| you grant us a limited* license to| use,|modify,| publicly perform,|publicly display,| reproduce, |and distribute|such Materials|in connection with Boards.ie|or the promotion thereof
My interpretation|By posting|you allow us to|use,|edit,|perform**,|serve via the web,|serve via the web/back up,|serve via the web|your content|on Boards|or when we pimp Boards***.

Nice!

I can see where you guys are coming from, I do, believe me. The problem I'd have is the way it's written, well, it allows you do a lot more than that - and I think that's where a problem could arise.

Even where you say above, to 'modify/edit' and image, in conjunction to being allowed to reproduce said image, gives permission to do something beyond showing the image on each page.

It's definitely something I'd ask you to look into - And this isn't just for my sake, but for other people with the same interests as myself, and yourselves - In case it were to go tits up on you.

It would also be something that could give bad press for Boards.ie - There's many a rabble rousing publication and/or website that loves to kick off a storm about this kind of thing.

Conor

cooperguy wrote: »

Would these terms mean you could take that program burn it on to disks and sell it in Easons or put it up on an apps store.

It would be very hard for us to claim that doing that was allowable under the terms of the license. The license is limited and we'd probably have to show that doing that was part of the normal course of running Boards.ie.

If you (or anyone) have a better wording for the licensing of user content I'm sure Darragh would be happy to talk it over with our solicitor and see about getting the clause amended.

Conor

Fajitas! wrote: »

The problem I'd have is the way it's written, well, it allows you do a lot more than that - and I think that's where a problem could arise.

I can totally see where you're coming from, don't get me wrong. If you can figure out a way of restricting it further without preventing us from running the site we'd love to hear it. There's a balance somewhere between giving us carte blanche with your content and allowing us to run the site without undue copyright restraint; it's just bloody hard to find that balance.

Fajitas! wrote: »

Even where you say above, to 'modify/edit' and image, in conjunction to being allowed to reproduce said image, gives permission to do something beyond showing the image on each page.

It's not just images though, it's content. We need "modify/edit" privileges or else we can't edit posts.

cooperguy

Conor wrote: »

It would be very hard for us to claim that doing that was allowable under the terms of the license. The license is limited and we'd probably have to show that doing that was part of the normal course of running Boards.ie.

If you (or anyone) have a better wording for the licensing of user content I'm sure Darragh would be happy to talk it over with our solicitor and see about getting the clause amended.

What is it limited to though? If its limited to what it says in the rest of that sentance then you could possibly do what it say in my examples. Unless there is another sentence specifying limitations?

Something like: By posting any Material on or through Boards.ie, you grant us a limited license to display all posted material, indefinatly, on boards.ie, would take away any doubt as to what it could be used for.

Im no lawyer but its my 2c!

<edit> Maybe to give you the ability to edit posts you could add: We reserve the right to modify/edit/delete content displayed on boards.ie deemed to be in breach of forum or "terms of use" rules.

TouchingVirus

By the looks of it a lot has changed from the former T&C and Privacy policy, is it possible to obtain a copy of these old versions? I've been on boards for quite a few years now and honestly the last time I looked at either was when I registered...

Can it be explicitly stated that the viewing of private messages that are not reported as being against the rules is forbidden? Sure, you say it's internal policy but what's to stop that changing at some point? You are under no obligation to inform us of changes in internal policy. Being a system admin/developer I know that usually the last thing you want to do is trawl around in the database looking at private messages for lulz, but now that you've gone properly legal it seems the "Spirit of Boards" just isn't enough to feel comfortable about this particular point.

Fajitas!

Conor wrote: »

I can totally see where you're coming from, don't get me wrong. If you can figure out a way of restricting it further without preventing us from running the site we'd love to hear it. There's a balance somewhere between giving us carte blanche with your content and allowing us to run the site without undue copyright restraint; it's just bloody hard to find that balance.

Agreed!

I think the balance is in the details tbh - and unfortunately, the details are a hard slog. For example;

It's not just images though, it's content. We need "modify/edit" privileges or else we can't edit posts.

Take the word modify, whilst it means a moderator being able to edit the content of a post if needed - It can be read as being able to modify an image posted... If you get me?

Without this sounding smart, have you sat down and ran this through with someone with legal knowledge in digital copyrights and IT law?

masteroftherealm

The wording is available to exclude photographs and written work from the limited use clause while protecting boards.ie's permission to use and reporoduce posts from forums.
Any Media Laywer can write up the clause for you.

testicle

Did anyone actually proof read these or did you just make them up?

Darragh

testicle wrote: »

Did anyone actually proof read these or did you just make them up?

Can you tell me why you asked this question?

testicle

Darragh wrote: »

Can you tell me why you asked this question?

It certainly seems that way. They have been updated without anyone agreeing to them, breaking the T&Cs themselves.

This thread is 4 pages long and growing pointing out holes in them.

TouchingVirus

testicle wrote: »

It certainly seems that way. They have been updated without anyone agreeing to them, breaking the T&Cs themselves.

They have been updated and notice has been given. It's right there on the T&C page. Your continued use of boards.ie implies you agree with the change. It's right there on the page, how does updating break the T&C's?

Red Sleeping Beauty

Dav wrote: »

It's not so much a case of "tough shít, we own it" as you say it's more "think twice about what you write, it might come back to haunt you." As mentioned, people are finding themselves in trouble for things they've posted on Facebook etc, but ultimately, if I say something like "my boss is a muppet" (and the gods know I've spouted some amount of tripe over the last 10 years on this site!) and that post gets me into hot water, it's not the website's fault that I didn't think my actions through properly and I don't see why they should enable me to continue posting that sort of nonsense by allowing me to just run away from my own past opinions and have them disappear.

I fundamentally disagree with detaching posts from usernames and merging all old posts into one account, I think it would kill a lot of what Boards is about which is "people talking about stuff." I think it's important that more than just the "stuff" is remembered, I want the people to be too. If people say things in the public doman and there's a record of it, then that record should be held intact.

Dav

Say I don't think hard enough about what I post and pleasantly request for a previous post to be edited/deleted is there any room for negotiation here? I mean, these new terms do have that legalease hard line that isn't very "user" friendly imo. "come back to haunt you" "tough sh*t" ... eh, they do kinda sound the same. It's the same result it would seem.

Darragh wrote: »

Hi there

Private Messages can only be accessed by Ross and Conor, our techies, by delving into the database - and it is not something that they do, unless absolutely necessary.

Moderators, Admins, Community Managers and even Founders do not have access to your Private Messages unless they are reported, in which case only the Admin team can see them.

Does that help?

Darragh

John/Cloud has access too does he not?



PS. there's nothing on Adverts about this a lá the big notice people are now seeing.

AnimalRights

Boards Nanny State


God bless the days when a forum was a forum, these days it's so regulated.

TouchingVirus

Red Sleeping Beauty wrote: »

John/Cloud has access too does he not?

Cloud is in the Administrator usergroup, he would have access to reported private messages like any other Administrator I'd think.


If you sent off an angry letter to a co-worker and your opinion later changed you couldn't unsend the email or the letter, so why should boards be any different? If you're worried about things that could get you into bother, then keep schtum.