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MVP

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    #62
    tallaghtoutlaws
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭tallaghtoutlaws


    Dodge wrote: »
    Rivers was exceptional, nut its not only about the end of the season.

    Forgot about him but Chris Johnson deserves it more for consistancy over the whole season

    IN fairness any MVP winner I've seen has been pretty humble about it. Thanks his O line and said he hopes they win the Superbowl "thats the important one"

    Some media make it a big thing (and some fans too) but most see it as harmless enough

    Im not talking about players attitudes to it. Im talking about my own personal opinion on awards to be honest.


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    #63
    Leslie91
    Registered Users Posts: 4,017 ✭✭✭Leslie91


    Manning will win primarily because he is the NFL's darling. And the Colts are nothing without him.

    For me, (ok I am a Charger fan but.........) Rivers has carried us the whole way through the season and in December he is nails. Unbeaten in December for 4 years.

    Rivers it is.


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    #64
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    Hazys wrote: »
    (and even Brady) are more deserving than Peyton.

    :rolleyes:


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    #65
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    I'd have no problem with Rivers getting it. I'll be honest though, if CJ wins it, it should be called the "Best Player" award. Had Vince Young started the season, the Titans would be something like 12-4. So CJ isn't even the most valuable player on his team.
    It's one of the few things I've agreed with Peter King on, but in last weeks MMQB he states that in this day and age, it's a QB's game. And he's right.

    Hazys to be saying Manning was the 5th best Passer rating, or that he benefits from his O-line in such a way is crazy. If you really think Manning ranks below 5 other QB's this season, then you haven't been watching the same games I have.
    You take a team to 14-0 (before getting benched), you have 7 4th quarter comebacks, and you're rightly in the MVP conversation. I don't want to get into the Manning shpeel again, but let's be fair here. 14-0 is 14-0; someone from the Colts deserves to be in the mix.

    Also Leslie, Manning may be the darling, but 360-odd TD's, 50,000 passing yards 130+ wins. The guy is respected for a reason.


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    #66
    Hazys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    davyjose wrote: »
    I'd have no problem with Rivers getting it. I'll be honest though, if CJ wins it, it should be called the "Best Player" award. Had Vince Young started the season, the Titans would be something like 12-4. So CJ isn't even the most valuable player on his team.
    It's one of the few things I've agreed with Peter King on, but in last weeks MMQB he states that in this day and age, it's a QB's game. And he's right.

    Hazys to be saying Manning was the 5th best Passer rating, or that he benefits from his O-line in such a way is crazy. If you really think Manning ranks below 5 other QB's this season, then you haven't been watching the same games I have.

    I was only responding to a previous post saying that Peyton had to work with 2 young WRs and his offense was at a disadvantage, when in reality he has Dallas Clark, Wayne and a v good Oline.

    I dont think he ranks below all 5 but certainly below Brees, Farve, Rivers and arguably Brady.

    You take a team to 14-0 (before getting benched), you have 7 4th quarter comebacks, and you're rightly in the MVP conversation. I don't want to get into the Manning shpeel again, but let's be fair here. 14-0 is 14-0; someone from the Colts deserves to be in the mix. Sure but it was a hell of a lot more than their QB that made them 14-2. If Manning played like he did this season with the teams of past, the Colts would only be around the 10,11,12 win mark. The biggest change in quality of this team was the defence, the defence grew in value this season

    Also Leslie, Manning may be the darling, but 360-odd TD's, 50,000 passing yards 130+ wins. The guy is respected for a reason. And rightfully respected but past performance shouldnt play into a 1 season award which i feel it will.

    I dont think its crazy to suggest Brady had a better season than Manning, there where only 3 points the difference in QB rating (i know QB rating is not the end all of stats but its a decent gauge) but its the difference in opposition the 2 QBs played against that stands out.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4673771/football-outsiders-brady-ranks-no-1


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    #67
    Hazys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    davyjose wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    Compare Brady's QB rating against Manning's for like competition:

    Jax: Manning 2 games 114 Brady 149
    Mia: Manning 133 Brady 2 games 75
    Ten: Manning 2 games 102 Brady 152
    Hou: Manning 2 games 91 Brady 97
    Against each other: Manning 97 Brady 110
    Bal: Manning 85 Brady 100
    Den: Manning 65 Brady 97
    NYJ: Manning 95 Brady 75

    Manning 2 Brady 6, im not even including the Colts Bills game.

    Out side of that Pats played New Orleans 13-3, Atlanta 9-7, TB 3-13, Carolina 8-8. Total wins of opp: 33

    Colts played Arizona 10-6, Seattle 5-11, San Fran 8-8, Rams 1-15. Total wins of opp: 24

    And Brady had 3 less in QB rating than Manning...


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    #68
    _Buck Rogers
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭_Buck Rogers


    Lol at this turning into a Manning V Brady thread.

    What I'd love to see is CJ and Favre share it, for the sake of sentiment:)


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    #69
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    Hazys wrote: »
    I dont think its crazy to suggest Brady had a better season than Manning, there where only 3 points the difference in QB rating (i know QB rating is not the end all of stats but its a decent gauge) but its the difference in opposition the 2 QBs played against that stands out.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4673771/football-outsiders-brady-ranks-no-1

    It's not really; it's the course of a full season that counts. Brady had a very good season - statistically his third or fourth best. But you really need to take the rose tinted glasses off and realise he does not deserve MVP.

    I think a lot of people are missing the point of this award. Unfortunately, had Manning not been taken out against the Jets and Bills, he'd likely have 16 wins, and the high end of 30+ TD's. That's MVP material. And if anything, the introduction of Curtis Painter and his 80 yards over two games, has shown how no Manning = 1st pick in the draft. That's a Valuable player, in fairness.

    I don't want to get into a Manning/Brady debate. But a bit of fairness lads. Manning's achievements are better than the stats above, which have been extracted with precision to make it look like Brady had a better season.

    FWIW, I wouldn't give a hoot if Manning won or lost it. But i hate it when people ignore the feats, and the level of talent on display, and shrug it off as him being the NFL's darling.
    After the Bengals game, I'd have no argument if Rivers won it. But I can't really see past those two.


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    #70
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,863 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    But he is the NFL's darling. And his feats in the regular season have been outstanding. Dallas Clark is the MVP on that team this year imo, I don't think they would be anywhere near where they are right now if not for him.
    Clark has never gotten enough recognition for what he does, Witten, Gonzalez and others get high praise all the time but Clark doesn't get nearly as much respect as them. Why? because that would be taking away from Manning which is just ridiculous.

    We all know how good a regular season QB Peyton is, legendary to be fair about it but the other stars on that team never get their fair share of credit, its only when they lose a game that they get highlighted for any mistake, even if Peyton throws 3 or 4 ints, he never gets flack for it.


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    #71
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    That's a fair point eagle eye. Manning definitely does benefit from some incredibly talented receivers. And Clark is probabl;y my 2nd favourite Colt. A class player indeed. But the QB is the team leader.
    I'm just saying it isn't too far fetched if Manning wins the award. It is deserved if he does win it.


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    #72
    Eire-Dearg
    Registered Users Posts: 8,900 ✭✭✭Eire-Dearg


    Manning got MVP

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/09/peyton-manning-wins-fourth-mvp-award/


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    #73
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    Eire-Dearg wrote: »
    Manning got MVP

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/09/peyton-manning-wins-fourth-mvp-award/

    Well done Peyton.

    Glad I preemptively defended that decision, cos there'll be folks spitting blood about it, no doubt.


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    #74
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,863 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Well I'm disgusted for one anyways. Its not about who got it either, its about who didn't get it.


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    #75
    Dodge
    Registered Users Posts: 10,211 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    QBs share of vote according to chis mortenson

    Manning 39.5 votes,
    Brees 7.5,
    Rivers 3,
    Favre 1

    That means not one vote for CJ


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    #76
    Hazys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    Dodge wrote: »
    QBs share of vote according to chis mortenson

    Manning 39.5 votes,
    Brees 7.5,
    Rivers 3,
    Favre 1

    That means not one vote for CJ

    Congrats to Manning.

    But the lopsided voting suggests that more than his achievements on the field this season were taken into account. 80% of the votes to Manning and then 20% shared between the rest, seems a bit unfair to Brees, Rivers and Farve.


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    #77
    Dodge
    Registered Users Posts: 10,211 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    Hazys wrote: »
    Congrats to Manning.

    But the lopsided voting suggests that more than his achievements on the field this season were taken into account. 80% of the votes to Manning and then 20% shared between the rest, seems a bit unfair to Brees, Rivers and Farve.

    Well it seems only one voter split his vote. I'd have giving it to Manning (changed from Brees recently), so whether he won my vote by a slim margin over Brees or he was easily getting my vote, no one would know.

    ONe man one vote means whoever got second, third etc is immaterial, and doesn't reflect anything. Every peyton voter might;ve had CJ 2nd for all we know


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