MVP

Black Swan · 15-12-2009 2:13am

MVP: Drew Brees or Brett Favre? Blue tosses coin.

davyjose · 15-12-2009 2:27am

Perhaps i have a different take on the award than others. Manning might not have had a record-breaking season, but he took his team to 12-4. CJ won't be taking anyone to 12-4 this season, or to a Play-off. so where's the "Value"? Sure, the guy is stunning, but he's not carrying a franchise on his shoulders (he is to a point, but nothing like Manning has done). Manning has done this every year, and if anything, last season was a taste of the Colts without Manning (or a 100% Manning) for a while. And underlined even more starkly how NO TEAM IN THE LEAGUE depends on a player as much as the Colts do on Manning. And 12-4 is 12-4. It's a hugely impressive reg season by any standards.

That's why it was not a bad choice.

Most year there's a player or two that take the league by the balls. 04 manning, 06 LT, 07 Brady. This year 3 or four players. that didn't happen last year. So it was always gonna be contentious.

tallaghtoutlaws · 15-12-2009 2:41am

davyjose wrote: »

Perhaps i have a different take on the award than others. Manning might not have had a record-breaking season, but he took his team to 12-4. CJ won't be taking anyone to 12-4 this season, or to a Play-off. so where's the "Value"? Sure, the guy is stunning, but he's not carrying a franchise on his shoulders (he is to a point, but nothing like Manning has done). Manning has done this every year, and if anything, last season was a taste of the Colts without Manning (or a 100% Manning) for a while. And underlined even more starkly how NO TEAM IN THE LEAGUE depends on a player as much as the Colts do on Manning. And 12-4 is 12-4. It's a hugely impressive reg season by any standards.

That's why it was not a bad choice.

Most year there's a player or two that take the league by the balls. 04 manning, 06 LT, 07 Brady. This year 3 or four players. that didn't happen last year. So it was always gonna be contentious.

To be honest I think the MVP award is a joke and causes debates like this. Although I think most awards are a joke. I generally don't care who gets it the reasons I can just picture a room full of the AP deciding who gets it having the same debates.

Most Valuable Player in the League: If the League were to end today you would have to give it to Drew Brees or Chris Johnson in my opinion.

But then you have to figure in the Playoffs. So by that right Chris Johnson no longer becomes the Most Valuable player in the League as he wont make the playoffs. But say Drew Brees and Peyton Manning both have terrible Playoffs and both crash out with bad games and low stats and for arguments sake as does Brett Favre does this put Chris Johnson back in the Running or does some new contender appear from the smoke?

_Buck Rogers · 15-12-2009 3:12am

MVP is decided over the season, not one game, or two games.

Teams may have perfect seasons but in my opinion a player will never be perfect in any particular season. Even if their team goes 19 - 0.

tallaghtoutlaws · 15-12-2009 3:16am

_Buck Rogers wrote: »

MVP is decided over the season, not one game, or two games.

Teams may have perfect seasons but in my opinion a player will never be perfect in any particular season. Even if their team goes 19 - 0.

If you are responding to me you missed my point.

Right now in serious contention we have:

Chris Johnson
Brett Favre
Peyton Manning
Drew Bress

All four having MVP type seasons.

Now Johnson will drop off this list the minute we reach the playoffs leaving:

Favre
Manning
Brees

My question was if those 3 crash out in the Playoffs who does the award go to? 1 of the original 4 still or is a new contender found in the remaining playoff teams.

As the award is decided over the whole season it would be a tough call on the scenario above.

Peyton Manning · 15-12-2009 9:31am

MVP: Peyton Manning
Offensive: Chris Johnson
Defensive: Charles Woodson (or Jared Allen)
Off Rookie: Knowshon Moreno/Percy Harvin
Def Rookie: Brian Orakpo/Brian Cushing/Rey Maualuga

_Buck Rogers · 15-12-2009 12:15pm

Nope, hence I didn't quote ya

. Was saying it because there is some feelings from people that a bad start to the season should rule a player out of the award etc. So was just giviing my 2 penneth

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

If you are responding to me you missed my point.

Right now in serious contention we have:

Chris Johnson
Brett Favre
Peyton Manning
Drew Bress

All four having MVP type seasons.

Now Johnson will drop off this list the minute we reach the playoffs leaving:

Favre
Manning
Brees

My question was if those 3 crash out in the Playoffs who does the award go to? 1 of the original 4 still or is a new contender found in the remaining playoff teams.

As the award is decided over the whole season it would be a tough call on the scenario above.

evil_seed · 15-12-2009 2:58pm

MVP: Brees/Manning/Favre
Offensive Player: Johnson/Davis/Brees
Defensive Player: Woodson/Dumervill/Revis
Offensive Rookie: Harvin
Defensive Rookie: Byrd/Orakpo/Cushing
Coach of the Year: Lewis/Caldwell/Payton

As you can see, imo, most of the awards are up for grabs between a few. the only lock i see is harvin.

ReacherCreature · 18-12-2009 1:57pm

Would Philip Rivers not warrant consideration?

Justin10 · 18-12-2009 10:26pm

Of course he would, but lets say it came down to Manning, Rivers, Johnson. Who you think they are going to give it to??

Manning of course.

To be fair it seems that MVP is now just something to talk about until the playoffs start. Rookie of the year seems to be a bigger award now.

frostie500 · 18-12-2009 10:36pm

Rochey18 wrote: »

To be fair it seems that MVP is now just something to talk about until the playoffs start. Rookie of the year seems to be a bigger award now.

What makes you say that? I would think with as many possible candidates as there are for MVP that it would be pretty important this year. With Farve and Manning going against each other for their fourth, Brees gunning for it, then you put in Rivers et al and its a great award to win. I wouldnt put the rookie of the year titles anywhere near the MVP in terms of importance or interest. The offensive one is Harvin's to lose but while the defensive one is pretty competitive its not as full a field as the MVP race where as many as half a dozen players can legitimately be talked upon in the same breath

Justin10 · 18-12-2009 10:40pm

I wouldnt either.. but for example Matt Ryan last year was pretty clear he was going to win rookie of the year and with that people tipping him for MVP which he was never going to get.

Agree also competition this year for MVP higher then other years but if rivers or johnson dont get it I wouldnt think they be sobbing too much.. Johnson im sure care more about the record attempt and Rivers getting the ring Eli already has.

Royal Seahawk · 18-12-2009 11:08pm

Who is going to win the MVP?

Who gives a ****, roll on the playoffs!
That is where the real rewards are.;)

davyjose · 19-12-2009 12:44am

Royal Seahawk wrote: »

Who is going to win the MVP?

Who gives a ****, roll on the playoffs!
That is where the real rewards are.;)

I really wanted Manning to get the MVP last year. I got my wish. Pity I was left sitting there after OT against San diego with my head in my hands, and a smashed remote control.

You're dead right Royal, MVP SchmemVP. The ring on the finger is all that counts for Brees, Favre, Rivers AND Manning. (And the yardage would mean more to Johnson, I'm sure)

maharg92 · 23-12-2009 4:25pm

MVP: Rivers
Offensive:Chris Johnson
Defensive: Jared Allen
Offensive Rookie: Percy Harvin (huge fan since his gator day)
Deffensive Rookie: Cushing
Head Coach: Jim Caldwell

Hazys · 05-01-2010 4:45pm

Probably better suited to this thread so we can compare predicitions.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201....ap/index.html

Cushing wins defensive rookie of the year award. The 9th LB in 10 years to win the award.

The awards release schedule...offensive rookie of the year award l8r today:

January 6 (morning): defensive rookie of the year.

January 6 (afternoon): offensive rookie of the year.

January 7 (morning): comeback player of the year.

January 10: MVP.

January 13 (morning): defensive player of the year.

January 14 (morning): offensive player of the year.

January 15 (morning): All-Pro team.

January 17: coach of the year.

Hazys · 06-01-2010 5:20pm

Percy Harvin is offensive rookie of the year.

Tom Brady is comeback player of the year.

No suprises there.

bobby wade · 06-01-2010 6:46pm

I'd have gone with Cadillac as comeback but won't argue too much

eagle eye · 06-01-2010 7:00pm

I'm just waiting to be disgusted when Chris Johnson doesn't get the MVP.

ReacherCreature · 06-01-2010 7:05pm

Hazys wrote: »

Tom Brady is comeback player of the year.

No suprises there.

Happy for Tom.

I would've mentioned Carson Palmer there too. I think he done a great job coming back and guiding the Bengals to where they are now.

Si Conando · 06-01-2010 7:52pm

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm just waiting to be disgusted when Chris Johnson doesn't get the MVP.

Just from flicking over the list of past winners, i cant see anyone in the last 25 years who has won MVP, without making the playoffs. I wont have a big problem with either Manning, Rivers or Brees winning. They've all had similar excellent years, and have lead their teams to the best 3 records in the league.

Obviously CJ should be a cert for offensive MVP

frostie500 · 06-01-2010 8:30pm

Si Conando wrote: »

Just from flicking over the list of past winners, i cant see anyone in the last 25 years who has won MVP, without making the playoffs. I wont have a big problem with either Manning, Rivers or Brees winning. They've all had similar excellent years, and have lead their teams to the best 3 records in the league.

The Lions did make the playoffs in 97, as far as I remember, when Barry Sanders was co-MVP. He had very similer numbers to CJ with 2053 rushing and 305 recieving and 14 total tds. CJ has 2006 yards rushing and 500 recieving with 16 total tds. I cant see a co-mvp this year with CJ getting a share. There were too many notable players that as Si Conando said led their teams to top records.

If CJ had broken the rushing record it probably would have been a different story with himself and Manning sharing it but without it he doesnt really have much of a chance. Shame but he'll be pretty motivated next year!

Fox1978 · 08-01-2010 2:13pm

It really sucked that holding call that called back his 64yard td run vs the Seahawks. Would've made it such an exciting final quarter with the Titans trying to get Johnson the ball every play so he could break the record.

Sadly I think it's Peyton who will get the MVP. You saw what happened to the team when he came out, which only underlines the Most Valuble Player aspect of the award which he'll get. If it was like in college (which awards the Best Player) well then CJ would've got it. Sadly because the Titans were still losing with CJ in the mix for those first 6 games it means he can't be seen as a "MVP" by definition of the award. It was only when Vince Young came in that they started to rack up the Ws.

_Buck Rogers · 08-01-2010 5:37pm

I can't see Manning getting it tbh, In order to give it to him 2 years in a row they'd have to consider him head and shoulders better then everyone else which isnt the case, not this season anyway, I can see it going between Favre and Brees.

davyjose · 08-01-2010 5:53pm

_Buck Rogers wrote: »

I can't see Manning getting it tbh, In order to give it to him 2 years in a row they'd have to consider him head and shoulders better then everyone else which isnt the case, not this season anyway, I can see it going between Favre and Brees.

A LOT of the articles I've read by journos with votes, have Manning way out in front.

Favre pretty much blew it by going off on one at Childress, and The Saints losing their last 3 hasn't helped Brees. I think Rivers has a shot at it though.

Hazys · 08-01-2010 6:45pm

davyjose wrote: »

A LOT of the articles I've read by journos with votes, have Manning way out in front.

Favre pretty much blew it by going off on one at Childress, and The Saints losing their last 3 hasn't helped Brees. I think Rivers has a shot at it though.

I think Manning will get it, will he deserve it? imo no, not really.

A QB rating of 99.9 is 6th in the NFL, nothing major especially since they played a lot of cupcake teams during the year. Brady has a QB rating of 96.2 when he played the hardest schedule of pass defences of any QB in 15 years.

I think Brees, Rivers, Johnson or Farve (and even Brady) are more deserving than Peyton. Peyton had a good year but nothing in comparison to the year he had in 2004 when he won it.

frostie500 · 08-01-2010 7:40pm

Hazys wrote: »

Peyton had a good year but nothing in comparison to the year he had in 2004 when he won it.

The MVP isnt about how a player compares to their past, its about how much value a player has to a (generally winning) team. In that case Manning has to be rated highly-he broke in two new recievers into what is generally considered the toughest offensive playbook in the NFL.

I think that players like Brees is going to be handicapped a bit by the finish to the season that the Saints had where they were very unimpressive. Farve wont be punished for his 'bust up' with Childress, he has been great this year and played as well as he did for most of his career, his value to the Vikings is shown by the fact that Adrian Peterson isnt the focal point of the team anymore.

The only other contender in my mind is Rivers, he has been great in leading the Chargers to the playoffs and has transfered the team from a running team to a spread the field passing offence. His value to the chargers has been immense when you consider that LT isnt the back he was a few years ago yet the team is still churning out wins

Hazys · 08-01-2010 8:24pm

frostie500 wrote: »

The MVP isnt about how a player compares to their past, its about how much value a player has to a (generally winning) team. In that case Manning has to be rated highly-he broke in two new recievers into what is generally considered the toughest offensive playbook in the NFL.

But he also had Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne and one of the best Olines in the league (tbf he makes the Oline look better bcos he gets rid of the ball so quickly) and a very much improved defense. The Colts didnt have the toughest schedule this year and his numbers are average (average as in average for Manning). To me he would barely make my top 5 MVPs for this season. His season wasnt exceptional. Id be a small bit disappointed if he won it this year as it would have more to do with his name and not his MVP status.

I think that players like Brees is going to be handicapped a bit by the finish to the season that the Saints had where they were very unimpressive. Farve wont be punished for his 'bust up' with Childress, he has been great this year and played as well as he did for most of his career, his value to the Vikings is shown by the fact that Adrian Peterson isnt the focal point of the team anymore.

The only other contender in my mind is Rivers, he has been great in leading the Chargers to the playoffs and has transfered the team from a running team to a spread the field passing offence. His value to the chargers has been immense when you consider that LT isnt the back he was a few years ago yet the team is still churning out wins

Unlike other years there is no clear favourite and it could be a toss up between 3 or 4 players so itll be interesting to see who wins and who gets how many votes.

tallaghtoutlaws · 08-01-2010 8:49pm

To be honest with the Run in to the end of the season all the top front runners had Chris Johnson should get. All the QBs mentioned had less than stellar performances in December overall.

For this reason is why I care not about awards. Usually the right guy doesn't get them. "OOOOOOHHHHH Look at me I got an MVP and am better than you blah blah blah........"

Rant over.

Dodge · 08-01-2010 9:05pm

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

To be honest with the Run in to the end of the season all the top front runners had Chris Johnson should get. All the mentioned had less than stellar performances in December overall.

Rivers was exceptional, nut its not only about the end of the season.

For this reason is why I care not about awards. Usually the right guy doesn't get them. "OOOOOOHHHHH Look at me I got an MVP and am better than you blah blah blah........"

Rant over.

IN fairness any MVP winner I've seen has been pretty humble about it. Thanks his O line and said he hopes they win the Superbowl "thats the important one"

Some media make it a big thing (and some fans too) but most see it as harmless enough

MVP

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