Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

Hungerford

Carawaystick wrote: »

Have you any idea of how many passengers were carried during the last week? Or will be carried next week, or the week after?

I can't help if the line doubles as a boating lake for parts of the year.

When it is running, it is a well-used service which is why it's the only part of the WRC currently open. Just because a railway line doesn't radiate from Dublin doesn't mean that it is sparsely used.

dowlingm

corktina wrote: »

what a good idea...we could integrate bus and rail....make them work together...what would we call it? Irish Transport Company perhaps...now what is that in Irish I wonder?:rolleyes::D

I think that given the regime as now implemented, it could only be done by splitting BE and IE. The current CIE entity is too far gone and needs to be blown up. Ideally you'd adhere to EU policy and demerge IE Network from the train operations too, having them in separate holding companies.

dowlingm

westtip wrote: »

Build it and they will come.

The only way shipping will come to Belmullet is if it's made a haven for ships with nothing else to do.

westtip

dowlingm wrote: »

The only way shipping will come to Belmullet is if it's made a haven for ships with nothing else to do.

Yes indeed that is an interesting article and I share the sentiments, the day of over consumption for the sake of it are over; in fact I rather like this recession for the sense of grounding it gives us all, we simply don't need to consume what we do, we simply don't need a train from Limerick to Galway for Christmas shopping - does anyone remember that ray of hopeless optimistic enthusiasm. I think it is always good to remind ourselves of just how stupid this whole thing is.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61978943&postcount=2477

Quote:
Galway V Limerick price wars on track

THE re-opening of a rail link between Galway and Limerick later this year may signal good news for consumers, as traders in the two cities prepare to implement ‘value deals’ and compete against one another to entice shoppers.

Iarnród Éireann has confirmed that services on the direct rail-link between Limerick and Galway, will be opened in early December and the business communities in both cities are gearing up to lure customers to their city to cash in on the lucrative shopping bonanza in the run-up to Christmas.

CEO of Galway Chamber, Michael Coyle, said the opening of the first link in the Western Rail Corridor is a positive development and the enhanced access poses opportunities and threats to business
in Galway.

Mr Coyle said he is confident the City’s retailers and the hospitality sector are competitive, offer value for money and can attract visitors from Limerick, Ennis and South Galway to choose Galway City over Limerick.

“We are not fearful; we feel the value Galway has to offer in shops, restaurants, hotels, pubs, leisure and so on is as good here as anywhere in the country. The rail link opens up the Limerick shopping
market to people in Galway, although that competition already exists by road.

“If Limerick people perceive shopping to be better in Galway, and feel it’s only a short train journey away, they will travel, and vice versa. O’Connell Street Limerick is now a bit closer but that is an opportunity and it requires...

Link

What a ridiculous article! You would think this rail line is going to be a ultra high speed link to both cities or something!!

By the way I have not heard a squeak from West on Track for ages has anyone else? Their website has not been updated for a long time either, have they gone into a recession hibernation?

corktina

waiting for the next election probably. It's surely very hard for them to counter the common sense arguements against a line such as this. Were their supporters to open their minds and THINK about this issue, their support would vanish like floods in the springtime. Are the threads on here the only voice against WoT?

westtip

In the west I don't really think its an issue most people couldn't give a tuppeny f*ck about the whole thing

corktina

thats the trouble...if you simply ask people like that" would you like your railway back" OF cCOURSE they will say "yes"

They have been deliberatly mis-informed of all the facts.

Hotblack Desiato

westtip wrote: »

By the way I have not heard a squeak from West on Track for ages has anyone else? Their website has not been updated for a long time either, have they gone into a recession hibernation?

Remember when you were a kid and you saw the ads on TV for Toy X and it looked like the coolest thing ever?

The kids TV shows became of less and less interest, but when the breaks came you'd be hoping for another glimpse of it in all its glory.

For months, the equivalent of years in adult terms, you could talk of nothing else, you were convinced that not only was it the most wondrous invention in the history of mankind, not only would it provide endless hours of fun for you and all your friends, you would be the most popular kid in the school once they got word you had Toy X.

If you were really lucky you were able to get hold of a catalogue and see photos of it from various angles and imagine even more intently what fun it would be. You read and re-read every word countless times.

Finally, the big birthday/Xmas arrived and there it was!!! Except it looked a lot smaller than it did on TV. And not all the parts that looked so cool on TV were included. And...

After a few hours you were thinking 'there must be more to this' and re-read the instructions for the fifth time. After a few days it was at the back of the wardrobe, an embarrassment soon to be forgotten. Hopefully you had enough maturity to be grateful for getting what you asked for and not to complain...


... This is exactly where WOT are now.

IIMII

westtip wrote: »

What a ridiculous article! You would think this rail line is going to be a ultra high speed link to both cities or something!!

That isn't the main obstacle. A couple of times, myself, wife and child have gotten the train from Drogheda to Belfast to go shopping. Very, very expensive to do so. There'll be no shopper specials between Galway and Limerick

L1011

on the actual rail side of things, has a bit of track towards tuam from athenry been reinstated? Crossed it today and it looked suspiciously good nick

Hungerford

MYOB wrote: »

on the actual rail side of things, has a bit of track towards tuam from athenry been reinstated? Crossed it today and it looked suspiciously good nick

Nope. It's just that parts of the Tuam section are in remarkably good condition for some reason - possibly drainage.

westtip

Will phase one open in 2010

does anyone give a toss.

cgcsb

it would be more economically viable to remove all the tracks, tarmac the route over and use it as a really long QBC. That way busses can leave the route and proceed to Limerick and Galway City Centres on other bus lanes, it'll most likely be faster than the proposed train route, be cheaper to run and will encourage use of public transport.

Also, the route is currently single track, converting it to QBC, slightly wider, will mean busses can travel in opposite directions at the same time

DWCommuter

cgcsb wrote: »

it would be more economically viable to remove all the tracks, tarmac the route over and use it as a really long QBC. That way busses can leave the route and proceed to Limerick and Galway City Centres on other bus lanes, it'll most likely be faster than the proposed train route, be cheaper to run and will encourage use of public transport.

Also, the route is currently single track, converting it to QBC, slightly wider, will mean busses can travel in opposite directions at the same time

So why are we building a motorway along the same route? Do your homework.:rolleyes:

What, this old hamsterwheel again?

It's built, money is spent, gone. Any improvements "suggested" now for the galway-limerick line would be more expensive than to simply finish the job.

But Athenry northwards is still up for debate. I gotta say I haven't seen anything compelling for that line. The crux of hte matter is what the community (i.e. the catchment area) says vs, of course, what it costs.

dowlingm

Look - there's nothing wrong per se with a Limerick-Galway railway link. What's wrong is

• the line design (refurb at 50mph on the cheap not rebuild to at least 75mph to compensate for the longer running distance)
• stops in the wrong places (Ardrahan, Craughwell)
• no stops in the right places (Sixmilebridge, Longpavement, Oranmore)
• spending E100m+ without a flood proofing programme and alignment elevation on an extension of a line which already floods (by the way did they get the 2 x 2700s stuck in Ennis out yet?)
• failure to even attempt to integrate Ennis-Athenry services with Athenry-Dublin service.
• an already unnecessarily disjointed rail timetable around Limerick with Ennis-Limerick services not integrated with Limerick-Limerick J and Limerick J-Waterford, while the Nenagh "service" is like a boxer getting a standing count while Bus Eireann teases the crowd by not landing the killer punch.

Essentially Dick Fearn has to take some blame for this as he should have told the politicians how much it would cost to create a proper intercity service and that if that much money wasn't forthcoming and IE were forced to reinstate anyway he would resign. Instead he and his fellow managers went ahead and relaid the track which never even got commissioned before the damn thing became the Great Western Canal.

Judgement Day

Nice post dowlingm - but as for Dick Fearn resigning - not from this particular 'gravy train'! He has learnt that in Ireland we don't do resignations. The CIE board should have resigned years ago if they had a shred of integrity. Were there any CIE board resignations after Buttevant and Cherryville - I think not! The Minister for Transport should resign over the WRC fiasco but will he hell!

crocro

dowlingm wrote: »

Essentially Dick Fearn has to take some blame for this as he should have told the politicians how much it would cost to create a proper intercity service and that if that much money wasn't forthcoming and IE were forced to reinstate anyway he would resign.

It's not his job to fall on his sword because a politician wants him to carry out a job that he expects to fail. The minister and the government are elected by the people and Dick Fearn is just the appointee of the people's government.

Dick Fearn was asked by the Oireachtas transport committee whether he considered the project viable given that the Strategic Rail Review's conclusion on the WRC was the opposite of the 'Expert Working Group'. He just said that any project was viable if you were prepared to subsidise it enough. He was asked what the subsidy per passenger journey would be and he answered that would depend on the service frequency. The opposition were needling him because they knew and he knew that the project was loss making lunacy being carried out for local electoral reasons.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=TRJ20050601.xml&Ex=All&Page=3

Irish Rail then produced a report in 2006 showing that the project would cost about 106m and would need a subsidy of about 3m/year and would carry about 100K additional passengers annually rising to 200K after 5 years.

To repay 106m over 30 years at 5% cost about 6.8m per year.

So we get 200K passengers being carried after 5 years for an annual current cost of 3m and an annual capital cost of 6.8m which is about 50 euro subvention per passenger journey. All of this information was available to the minister and the cabinet who decided to proceed anyway.

The WRC was never going to be stopped by a negative campaign complaining that it was 'unviable'. It would have been better to promote more cost effective public transport projects for the west. The main thing is that the Northern sections will never be built now and the subaqua single track can be MacGreil's contribution to western infrastructure - his very own Knock Airport.

dowlingm

crocro you're right of course but eventually somebody, somewhere is going to have to be a hero or Ireland is screwed (more than it is already). Unfortunately the 46 economists who shouted STOP about NAMA were accused of being ivory tower eccentrics so there's little chance of The Powers That Be listening to the little people.

Dowlingm, is there any point you have made that you haven't made before? Did anything posted in the past day contribute something new, or was it just another oppertunity to state the Party Position?

westtip

I always thought the silly season as it is known in the press was the summer months - generally a slow time for news. Now in the letters pages of the Irish Times we have another whacko piece of rationale for our beloved (sic) WRC:

Madam, – Being among the last of the 180 people who donated blood in the Claremorris clinic last Wednesday evening, I happened to meet the driver who was bringing these donations back to Dublin on a near impassible N60.

Should weather conditions worsen, railways will be the only way to get these life-saving supplies to the patients in counties Dublin, Louth and Carlow, where supplies had come under pressure due to the inclement weather.

Keynesian economics argued that in times like these, government should invest in infrastructure and particularly capital intensive infrastructure projects. I welcome the rebuilding of the Western Rail Corridor. For more reasons than ever, the rebuilding of this railway between Limerick, Galway, Mayo and Sligo must be a priority, together with Athlone-Mullingar, Dublin-Clonsilla and any other railway line that remains intact in Ireland today.

Creating thousands of jobs, boosting tourism, helping students and commuters, and saving lives seems like very solid economics to me. – Yours, etc,

MICHAEL KEAN,
Ashford Court,
Claremorris,
Co Mayo.

As ever the facts are wrong as T21 does not commit to build the Sligo section, and there is no mention of the need to drive to railway stations from our one off houses scattered along wee unsalted and very icy boreens throughout the West. And no mention of frozen points!

corktina

how crazy do you need to be to suggest that we invest millions in infrastructure against the once in 10 or 20 year event of having enough snow to affect the roads? The thaw is due any day now (in Munster at least) and so far as I know no roads are shut and impassable....were the weather THAT bad (and lets face it, 'tis only a dusting of snow) then my guess is the railways would be impassable also.....just how many snow-ploughs does IE own? (my guess? zero)

Rip up the tracks, millions wasted, west on track are crazy and must be stopped yeah yeah I heard you the first *hundred* times. Sheesh.

Edit: I do agree that the letter writer's wrong. Military or air transport would be an option for medical supplies.

lord lucan

When did Dublin - Clonsilla close?,must've missed that!:rolleyes:

Mullingar - Athlone will never happen,Connolly hasn't got the capacity to deal with extra traffic as it as.

corktina

i should have thought a shuttle service á lá Parry people mover between Athlone and Mullingar might be a useful feeder service to both lines AND a handy local link....cheap too as it would not require track or siganl work at either end and light rail throughout...

BluntGuy

Creating thousands of jobs, boosting tourism, helping students and commuters, and saving lives seems like very solid economics to me. – Yours, etc,

:pac:

Hungerford

corktina wrote: »

i should have thought a shuttle service á lá Parry people mover between Athlone and Mullingar might be a useful feeder service to both lines AND a handy local link....cheap too as it would not require track or siganl work at either end and light rail throughout...

I think that there's a couple of possible reasons for Athlone to Mullingar. The feeder service would be one.

But I wouldn't go down the light rail for one reason: it could be a handy diversionary route for Galway trains if there are issues or works on the main line. The problem would be that they would have to reopen Athlone's MGWR for that happen.

corktina

there is a huge difference cost-wise between the option I outlined and the full re-opening that you suggest....possibly the thing to do is to re-open it " on the cheap" but do nothing to prevent its re-instatement as heavy-rail in the future... PPM may well be able to operate into the existing station area instead of re-opening the MGWR station...

Even though it's strictly not the right place for them, some very valid points made about mullingar-athlone. How would you guys feel about opening a dedicated thread on the subject? I'm game.

cgcsb

DWCommuter wrote: »

So why are we building a motorway along the same route? Do your homework.:rolleyes:

I am aware that the M18 is currently under construction. However, converting the route to QBC will give busses dedicated road space and allow them to access the town centres with ease, unlike the motorway which bypasses towns