Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

Bodan

Victor wrote: »

Why would you do that when you can change trains in Portarlington or Kildare? Current journey times from Cork to Galway are 4:25 to 5:40. The return journey 4:48 to 5:50.

Current journey times from Waterford to Galway are 04:28 to 06:05 (with an additional connection overnight). The return journey 04:40 to 06:32.

Most of the trains are between 5 to 6 hours, with the odd exception. Funnily there the ones you picked out. Why ?

Victor

Bodan wrote: »

Maybe they need to put on an intercity up to Galway, bringing down the times because right now the trains from LJ west(towards Limerick) are too slow.

If Cork to Galway cant be done in 3 to 3 and half hours, then they really need to go back to the drawing board and look at the quality of the line.

Congratulations*, well done, you are about 4 years behind everyone else. The project is a sop, a dud, a farce.

Bodan wrote: »

Most of the trains are between 5 to 6 hours, with the odd exception. Funnily there the ones you picked out. Why ?

So I can prove you wrong - that is you are overstating the time. Also you don't give the accurate Cork/Waterford-Galway times.



* Apologies, I don't want to be so condescending, but its true.

dowlingm

Bodan wrote: »

That's true for Waterfordian's. The journey is 3 hours 45 minutes

Not on Sundays.

As for yourself Bodan, if you're here to talk about the WRC fine. If you are generally in favour of it (and your use of a map which extends to Sligo implies you are) well that's up to you. But don't come on here talking about vitriol and people being organised. We get that kind of sh!te every six or eight weeks on this thread - look back at this one and its predecessors. Make your points and bring some proof - not speculation, not wishing, not whining about how Dublin screws the Wesht - and we'll see where this goes.

If the design and rail-laying resources poured into Ennis-Athenry had been put into accelerating Clonsilla-Navan and then coming back to Ennis-Athenry after, there's a good chance that the rolling stock at the Drogheda Depot could have been recovered to the rest of the network after the Malahide Viaduct and a line which would carry more passengers in a month than Ennis-Athenry in a year would be open - but no.

Bodan

Victor wrote: »

Congratulations*, well done, you are about 4 years behind everyone else. The project is a sop, a dud, a farce.

I said if the quality of the line was not good enough. Lets wait and see what it is like when it is opened, at least we have a track that can be upgraded if it turns out not to be fast enough.

Victor wrote:

So I can prove you wrong - that is you are overstating the time. Also you don't give the accurate Cork/Waterford-Galway times.

You didn't prove anything, you cherry picked your times to try and make an fictitious point(yeah, im calling you out ). On Irishrail.ie, there are 5 Trains from Waterford to Galway with an average time of 5 and a half hours. And then there are 8 trains from Cork with an average time of 5 hours and 15 minutes.

Here they are:

Wat1 4:28
Wat2 6:05
Wat3 6:05
Wat4 5:33
Wat5 5:40

Cork1 5:10
Cork2 5:48
Cork3 5:47
Cork4 5:35
Cork5 5:40
Cork6 5:35
Cork7 5:03
Cork8 4:25

They are two long im my opinion, where I think people would much prefer to drive or take the bus. The only way to speed up the journey is through the WRC.

Bodan

dowlingm wrote: »

Not on Sundays.

As for yourself Bodan, if you're here to talk about the WRC fine. If you are generally in favour of it (and your use of a map which extends to Sligo implies you are) well that's up to you. But don't come on here talking about vitriol and people being organised. We get that kind of sh!te every six or eight weeks on this thread - look back at this one and its predecessors. Make your points and bring some proof - not speculation, not wishing, not whining about how Dublin screws the Wesht - and we'll see where this goes.

If the design and rail-laying resources poured into Ennis-Athenry had been put into accelerating Clonsilla-Navan and then coming back to Ennis-Athenry after, there's a good chance that the rolling stock at the Drogheda Depot could have been recovered to the rest of the network after the Malahide Viaduct and a line which would carry more passengers in a month than Ennis-Athenry in a year would be open - but no.

You and your ilk are the ones doing most of the speculating on this thread. If you don't like the line and don't want to use it, that's fine. But others do and they find it useful. A lot pot shots have been taken at the WRC, not just in this thread but other threads. If you folks are so concerned about a waste of money, why not take shots at the Metro North blue line that is estimated to cost €5 billion. If you do think WRC is a waste, it is nothing compared to that white elephant.

The WRC is must needed infrastructure to connect the rest of the rail network up to each other and not just to Dublin. I like this investment outside of capital and I hope there is more of it. Dublin is pretty well served compared to the rest of the country.

btw, if you want to bitch about the Clonsilla-Navan line, please take it to a Clonsilla-Navan thread. Thanks.

Victor

Bodan wrote: »

If you folks are so concerned about a waste of money, why not take shots at the Metro North blue line that is estimated to cost €5 billion. If you do think WRC is a waste, it is nothing compared to that white elephant.

btw, if you want to bitch about the Clonsilla-Navan line, please take it to a Clonsilla-Navan thread. Thanks.

Much ironing. Its delicious.

corktina

BODAN..I really do seriously suggest that you read the previous posts and threads on this subject.

Most of the people you see as ANTI- this line are in fact ANTI- the waste of resources put in to create a sub-standard line with a VERY poor service. READ THE THREADS

Victor

So, travelling Galway-Cork, the first and last connections are still via Portarlington.
The 06:40 from Galway via Limerick is much quicker than the 06:05 via Portarlington.

The 13:55 and 18:50 arrivals into Cork are quicker (i.e. later departure) via Limerick, but gets you in no earlier. Two changes against one in each case.

Otherwise, services are generally complimentary

Generally via Portarlington needs fewer changes and higher quality trains (first class, catering, vestibules) for more of the journey.

From	To	Dep. 	Arr. 	Change	Via		Time	

Galway 	Cork 	05:05	09:53	2	Portarlington	04:48	

Galway 	Cork 	06:40	10:52	2	Limerick	04:12	Shorter time
Galway 	Cork 	06:05	11:50	2	Portarlington	05:45	Longer time – depart earlier, arrive later

Galway 	Cork 	07:05	12:53	1	Portarlington	05:48	

Galway 	Cork 	09:05	13:55	1	Portarlington	04:50	
Galway 	Cork 	09:45	13:55	2	Limerick	04:10	Shorter time – depart later, arrive no earlier

Galway 	Cork 	11:05	15:55	1	Portarlington	04:50	

Galway 	Cork 	12:10	16:50	2	Limerick	04:40	

Galway 	Cork 	13:05	18:50	1	Portarlington	05:45	
Galway 	Cork 	14:30	18:50	2	Limerick	04:20	Shorter time – depart later, arrive no earlier

Galway 	Cork 	15:05	20:50	1	Portarlington	05:45	

Galway 	Cork 	17:25	21:58	2	Limerick	04:33	

Galway 	Cork 	18:05	23:55	1	Portarlington	05:50

Bus Éireann provide 12 services with a standard time of 4:20, no changes.

http://www.buseireann.ie/bubble.php?id=57

Cookie_Monster

Bodan wrote: »

They are two long im my opinion, where I think people would much prefer to drive or take the bus. The only way to speed up the journey is through the WRC.

They're can always take off two carriages to make them shorter :pac:

Judgement Day

Bodan. Love the map especially the way that it seems to show that the railway serves all the 'International' airports at Shannon, Galway, Knock and Sligo.

dowlingm

Cork-Limerick Dep 1630 arr 1813
Limerick-Galway last service 1803.

This means the last weekday service to Galway from Cork via Limerick is 1530, but 1730 via Portarlington. Similarly last departure ex Galway 1725 (which is fail of itself - you had better work in Eyre Square if you want to get home) but via Portarlington 1805.

Bodan - how do you determine value? Is any project costed at >106m Euro now bad value irrespective of how many people will use it? This is obviously not the case.

Meanwhile in the IT: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0209/1224264030290.html

Opening date for rail corridor
Gordon Deegan

INTERCITY PASSENGER rail services are to recommence between Limerick and Galway for the first time in 30 years next month.

Iarnród Éireannl yesterday confirmed that services on the €106.5 million first phase of the Western Rail Corridor would be officially launched on March 30th.

The new service will provide five services each way from Monday to Saturday between the two cities and four services each way on a Sunday.

The restoration of services follows a long campaign by West on Track, and yesterday its spokesman, Colman Ó Raghallaigh, said: “We are very pleased with the news, but work on the second phase from Athenry to Tuam must start this year.”

He said the estimated €35 million spend on the 17-mile stretch of track from Athenry to Tuam represented “great value for money”.

The Limerick to Galway service will serve stations at Ennis and Athenry, and new stations at Sixmilebridge, Gort, Ardrahan and Craughwell. It involves the renewal of 36 miles of track.

The new service will be just under two hours between Limerick and Galway. Yesterday a member of Clare County Council, Cllr Brian Meaney (Green Party), said: “The AA route planner gives a one hour and 27 minutes journey time between Limerick and Galway by road. Given that there are stops on the line, but I would hope that speeds will improve.”

Mr Ó Raghallaigh said: “With the train service you are guaranteed that you will be in Limerick or Galway in under two hours, whereas by road you are at the mercy of the vagaries of traffic and may spend 45 minutes on the outskirts of Galway in traffic.”

He added: “I would hope, however, that Irish Rail will improve their travel times on the route.”

What annoys me about these statements are twofold. One - Both Cllr Meaney, as a public representative for the area and Mr. O Raghallaigh, a project cheerleader should know well that that is the case, and why it is the case. Two - they should know the likelihood of anything changing and the impact on the service if a major rebuild above 50mph was done. And what would we get for 35m Euro for Tuam Mr O'Raghallaigh? 50mph? 40?

It's like I said to the Wexford Town councillor who wanted Irish Rail to build a new station - what are you and your council going to do to see it happen - i.e. by giving cash and/or providing land. Answer there was none.

corktina

€106.5 miullion up the swanee...literally in places..for a second-rate 5 trains a day service which is not much use for commuters or through travellers ...

Cork to Galway? take the train and change at the Junction, change at Limerick, reverse at Athenry.... OR Bus Eireann/CityLink direct. hmm....no brainer isnt it

alpha2zulu

corktina wrote: »

Cork to Galway? take the train and change at the Junction, change at Limerick, reverse at Athenry.... OR Bus Eireann/CityLink direct. hmm....no brainer isnt it

Why take the train...apart from anybody wanting to expierence what it would feel and sound like to sit under the bonnet of a DAF 85 (aka railcar)for hours on end I dont know why anybody would put themselves through the WRC connection option when the alternative via Portarlington/Kildare is so much more civilised.

You mention the bus option...given how many months the Limerick-Ennis was closed due to flooding this winter along with the flooding on the WRC section, the stations along the WRC are going to become a nothing but a glorified bus station for half the year no doubt.

DWCommuter

March 30th!

Can't wait. Nearly six years to the day when myself and a few colleagues pissed off the west of Ireland! (or should I say "wesht" like that twat on telly - yeah the one who does the weather on TG4 and pretends to know about talent on a badly made TV show)

It will be an interesting year and one side of the argument is about to be found out.:eek:

Judgement Day

Welcome back DW - don't forget your marmite sandwiches and Ian Allan spotters guide. See you on the lifting train first train!

alpha2zulu

DWCommuter wrote: »

It will be an interesting year and one side of the argument is about to be found out.:eek:

From the IE super-computer, heres their 3D passenger load simulaton for the morning Limerick-Galway service mid April 2010...;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yweqEezJIA&feature=related

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Bodan

Victor wrote: »

So, travelling Galway-Cork, the first and last connections are still via Portarlington.
The 06:40 from Galway via Limerick is much quicker than the 06:05 via Portarlington.

The 13:55 and 18:50 arrivals into Cork are quicker (i.e. later departure) via Limerick, but gets you in no earlier. Two changes against one in each case.

Otherwise, services are generally complimentary

Generally via Portarlington needs fewer changes and higher quality trains (first class, catering, vestibules) for more of the journey.

From	To	Dep. 	Arr. 	Change	Via		Time	

Galway 	Cork 	05:05	09:53	2	Portarlington	04:48	

Galway 	Cork 	06:40	10:52	2	Limerick	04:12	Shorter time
Galway 	Cork 	06:05	11:50	2	Portarlington	05:45	Longer time – depart earlier, arrive later

Galway 	Cork 	07:05	12:53	1	Portarlington	05:48	

Galway 	Cork 	09:05	13:55	1	Portarlington	04:50	
Galway 	Cork 	09:45	13:55	2	Limerick	04:10	Shorter time – depart later, arrive no earlier

Galway 	Cork 	11:05	15:55	1	Portarlington	04:50	

Galway 	Cork 	12:10	16:50	2	Limerick	04:40	

Galway 	Cork 	13:05	18:50	1	Portarlington	05:45	
Galway 	Cork 	14:30	18:50	2	Limerick	04:20	Shorter time – depart later, arrive no earlier

Galway 	Cork 	15:05	20:50	1	Portarlington	05:45	

Galway 	Cork 	17:25	21:58	2	Limerick	04:33	

Galway 	Cork 	18:05	23:55	1	Portarlington	05:50

Bus Éireann provide 12 services with a standard time of 4:20, no changes.

http://www.buseireann.ie/bubble.php?id=57

I'm sure there is a point in there somewhere, but i just cant see it. Either way, your going on the proven liars list.

Bodan

Judgement Day wrote: »

Bodan. Love the map especially the way that it seems to show that the railway serves all the 'International' airports at Shannon, Galway, Knock and Sligo.

It was the only map I could find , but yeah it was bit cheeky of them.

Bodan

dowlingm wrote: »

Cork-Limerick Dep 1630 arr 1813
Limerick-Galway last service 1803.

This means the last weekday service to Galway from Cork via Limerick is 1530, but 1730 via Portarlington. Similarly last departure ex Galway 1725 (which is fail of itself - you had better work in Eyre Square if you want to get home) but via Portarlington 1805.

Bodan - how do you determine value? Is any project costed at >106m Euro now bad value irrespective of how many people will use it? This is obviously not the case.

Meanwhile in the IT: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0209/1224264030290.html
What annoys me about these statements are twofold. One - Both Cllr Meaney, as a public representative for the area and Mr. O Raghallaigh, a project cheerleader should know well that that is the case, and why it is the case. Two - they should know the likelihood of anything changing and the impact on the service if a major rebuild above 50mph was done. And what would we get for 35m Euro for Tuam Mr O'Raghallaigh? 50mph? 40?

It's like I said to the Wexford Town councillor who wanted Irish Rail to build a new station - what are you and your council going to do to see it happen - i.e. by giving cash and/or providing land. Answer there was none.

That is disappointing. 50mph is a bit too slow. Ideally you want it 100km minimum. A direct train from Cork to Galway would take 3 and half hours (assuming it takes 2 hours between limerick and Galway) ... I wonder how long it is going to take in the timetables, assuming there will be no direct service.

foggy_lad

Right now it takes 5 to 6 hours for people from Cork and Waterford to get to Galway by rail, though Dublin. When this line opens, it will half the travel time to around 3 hours, which makes such trips by rail a reasonable alternative.

even taking the train to portarlington to go to galway from cork or waterford you must also consider that many dublin-cork and dublin-galway trains are at least 30minutes late at intermediate stations so you could end up spending more time on the platforms waiting than on the trains.

there is no accountability in irish rail! if your train is late they will find a way to "allow" for this by claiming times are for end to end only etc and even with this they add 10 minutes to the timetable so half an hour outside the timetabled time in portarlington or limerick junction or ten minutes late and a missed connection in cork galway or dublin and they claim to still be on time!

FlameoftheWest

alpha 2 zulu wrote: »

From the IE super-computer, heres their 3D passenger load simulaton for the morning Limerick-Galway service mid April 2010...;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yweqEezJIA&feature=related

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I fear you maybe correct given the moronic timetable on offer.

Victor

Bodan wrote: »

I'm sure there is a point in there somewhere, but i just cant see it. Either way, your going on the proven liars list.

Excuse me?

Hungerford

Bodan wrote: »

They are two long im my opinion, where I think people would much prefer to drive or take the bus. The only way to speed up the journey is through the WRC.

The problem is that CIE are committed to closing ensuring an appropriate mix between supply and demand on the Limerick - Waterford line.

This means that services are practically non-existent spaced out at appropriate intervals involving long waits at Limerick Junction designed to provide best connections.

There is no service on Sundays because they can't be bothered of manpower issues.

Don't worry, CIE is committed to sending in a lifting train exploring the future usage of the line in the hands of property developers.

Hungerford

Judgement Day wrote: »

Welcome back DW - don't forget your marmite sandwiches and Ian Allan spotters guide. See you on the lifting train first train!

Nah - he won't be there. He'll be waiting for the 141-class railtour for Dick Fearn's mates.

dowlingm

Bodan

Your 60mph figure is only part of the story. There are parts of the line that could probably be rerated to 60mph without much bother and others which would require serious work because the curves are too sharp or bridges not strong enough. Furthermore, and this is important for this line - a 60mph train isn't a 60mph train if it's stuck in a passing loop waiting for the other train to pass or stopping at a station a few miles from Gort or a few miles from Athenry.

I recently read the Boston-Montreal train study (PDF, 3Mb) by Vermont, New Hampshire and Massachusetts DofTs which would involve operating over 329 miles and several different railroad operators and in a stretch in New Hampshire reinstating a lifted line (due to property tax rules in North America operators frequently lift ASAP rather than pay tax on a line which likely won't reopen).

This study openly discussed issues like maximum line curvature and grade, signalling, numbers of level crossings and at what operating speeds these would have to be automated or eliminated and so on. Various operating speeds and frequencies were discussed as well as ridership models.

As a publicly funded body Irish Rail should have had to publish their planning documents on Ennis-Athenry and Sixmilebridge so that the taxpayer could see how this line came to be implemented, but that would involve awkward questions and a dawning realisation even by Western taxpayers that maybe the line could be done better and implemented in different ways (i.e. as an express first and only adding stations like Ardrahan after separate study and justification)

Judgement Day

Hungerford wrote: »

Nah - he won't be there. He'll be waiting for the 141-class railtour for Dick Fearn's mates.

I've heard that a set of Mark III's are being specially refurbished for the Fossils IRRS tour and they will be scrapped afterwards.

lord lucan

Judgement Day wrote: »

I've heard that a set of Mark III's are being specially refurbished for the Fossils IRRS tour and they will be scrapped afterwards.

I'll stick with the double headed 141's and a rake of the RPSI's MKII's to Longford and back.:):)

Judgement Day

This correspondence from IRN tonight:

'IE would hardly bring back a set of MK3's just for a railtour? Is there be much work to get them back up to mainline standard?

That's exactly what I'm thinking, I honestly cannot imagine IE making a rake serviceable for a railtour, why is why I have my money on that mk3s will be back in normal service by then on a weekday diagram, and perhaps IE have told the IRRS that assuming a set is back in traffic by then, they can use it on the Saturday'.

In 1985 CIE rebuilt the turntable in Youghal purely for a one-off IRRS railtour so the refurbishment of a set of Mk III's would not be unprecedented - especially if the priest has an input.

DWCommuter

Hungerford wrote: »

Nah - he won't be there. He'll be waiting for the 141-class railtour for Dick Fearn's mates.

You're right.....with hand grenades!:D

Speaking of railtours, I see the fossil club (IRRS) are sending a MK3 train along the WRC in April. I believe its organised by Greg Ryan (he of apparent preservation fame in IE:rolleyes:).

So it has started. After 100million euro of taxpayers money, the salivating hordes are planning the assault. Expect this to be the busiest train ever on the WRC. And don't forget that it departs from Connolly as a luas connection is not as exciting as a railcar or DART connection. For Kildare rail ravers, you'll have to make do with a bus and luas connection as your sunday service doesn't start early enough and despite using the Phoenix park tunnel, the WRC express can't pick you up on platform 10 either. But sure you're probably best off avoiding Kildares shabby stations, particularly Sallins, seeing as though you are visiting brand new ones that will only cater for a fraction of your home countys stations anyway.

Bitter? Maybe.:rolleyes:

paulm17781

DWCommuter wrote: »

And don't forget that it departs from Connolly as a luas connection is not as exciting as a railcar or DART connection

Are you serious? IRRS get to use the PPT while commuters don't? :eek: