Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

Hungerford

ClovenHoof wrote: »

But think about it. the Western Rail Corridor opened to Claremorris results in a fully integrated rail system at last. Train passengers from Derry, Enniskillen, Knock, Galway, Ballina and Limerick can interchange there.

Where would all these people be going?

I am starting to wonder whether you are pulling our chain with some of your arguments, to be honest.

Sponge Bob

ClovenHoof wrote: »

But think about it. the Western Rail Corridor opened to Claremorris results in a fully integrated rail system at last. Train passengers from Derry, Enniskillen, Knock, Galway, Ballina and Limerick can interchange there.

Derry :eek: I thought about it for an instant :eek: Derry :eek:

I think the eventual goal of a spur to a new deep ocean port at Belmullet makes a lot of sense too.

Belmullet :eek::eek::eek:

Bring precisely what from where and to where exactly ???

The deep water port at Foynes was continually rail linked to Ballina in the 1970s via Athenry and Claremorris and yet Asahi brought their raw materials from Dublin instead.

lord lucan

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Look at how Luas was all about "bring deh dear and darlin tram back me oul schmosa..." They even had an old time Dublin tram on display for the new Point(less) line. That's not sentimentality?

The Luas was a practical plan to address the public transport problem in Dublin,not some sentimental ideal. The old time tram was just part of the publicity for the new red line extension,not a nod to tram fans!

Aard

ClovenHoof wrote: »

But think about it. the Western Rail Corridor opened to Claremorris results in a fully integrated rail system at last. Train passengers from Derry, Enniskillen, Knock, Galway, Ballina and Limerick can interchange there. It would be a Clapham Junction for the West. Development would explode. I really cannot fathom the rationale against such rail integration.

[My bold]
Development? Paid for by what money exactly?

Calina

ClovenHoof wrote: »

But think about it. the Western Rail Corridor opened to Claremorris results in a fully integrated rail system at last. Train passengers from Derry, Enniskillen, Knock, Galway, Ballina and Limerick can interchange there. It would be a Clapham Junction for the West. Development would explode. I really cannot fathom the rationale against such rail integration.

I think the eventual goal of a spur to a new deep ocean port at Belmullet makes a lot of sense too.

Your theory is not really borne out by past experience elsewhere. I'm not sure what you mean by development exploding but in light of the huge problems that Shell are having in Mayo, I'd be stunned if that part of the country was the top of anyone's list of locations to develop in right now. Not only that, Belmullet is isolated and road infrastructure to it is really not suitable for any sort of a deep water port and in any case I can't actually see any practical application for it.

WRC or not I would hesitate to call the rail system in Ireland fully integrated.

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Look at how Luas was all about "bring deh dear and darlin tram back me oul schmosa..." They even had an old time Dublin tram on display for the new Point(less) line. That's not sentimentality?

I have issues with certain decisions that were taken with regards to Luas; however, it should be noted that each project must be assessed on its own merits in terms of integration with a whole. As matters stand I am not sure that this was done for WRC. Ultimately the fact that Luas was funded is not evidence that WRC should be funded if rail travel in the west cannot be supported in its own right. It's a strawman and bringing up funding for other projects as proof that a pet project should be funded is undoubtedly an argument of last resort.

baalthor

ClovenHoof wrote: »

But think about it. the Western Rail Corridor opened to Claremorris results in a fully integrated rail system at last. Train passengers from Derry, Enniskillen, Knock, Galway, Ballina and Limerick can interchange there. It would be a Clapham Junction for the West. Development would explode. I really cannot fathom the rationale against such rail integration.

I think the eventual goal of a spur to a new deep ocean port at Belmullet makes a lot of sense too.

Er, there is no train service to Enniskillen. Or are you referring to this ...?

corktina

ClovenHoof wrote: »

But think about it. the Western Rail Corridor opened to Claremorris results in a fully integrated rail system at last. Train passengers from Derry, Enniskillen, Knock, Galway, Ballina and Limerick can interchange there. It would be a Clapham Junction for the West. Development would explode. I really cannot fathom the rationale against such rail integration.

I think the eventual goal of a spur to a new deep ocean port at Belmullet makes a lot of sense too.

hang on...HOW are the guys from Derry and Enniskillen going to get to Claremorris and more importantly WHY would they be choodsing to go that way?
What do you envisage would be freighted through Belmullet that would be worth the HUGE expense of a new port? Surely the majority of the traffic would be going to Dublin, Belfast, Galway, Limerick or Cork all of which have their own ports

I suggest you invest a couple of hours reading the posts in the old WRC thread and you will then see that what you are saying is pie-in-the-sky (would that it wasnt...)

Sponge Bob

corktina wrote: »

hang on...HOW are the guys from Derry and Enniskillen going to get to Claremorris

By Bus like they do nowadays.

corktina

ah yes, i can just see the N17, nose to tail with express coaches all heading for Claremorris (19 platforms short of Clapham Junction....)

Kingdom

ClovenHoof wrote: »

You lost me there. A link to Tuam would be for Galway.

I thought you all were joking about the Limerick Galway line not going direct to Galway. Ha ha ha. Sure that doesn't make any sense at all. :eek:

Kingdom

Hungerford wrote: »

Where would all these people be going?

I am starting to wonder whether you are pulling our chain with some of your arguments, to be honest.

That was the only logical conclusion I came up with too.

ClovenHoof

Calina wrote: »

Not only that, Belmullet is isolated and road infrastructure to it is really not suitable for any sort of a deep water port and in any case I can't actually see any practical application for it.

Thanks for your comment but I think you are not up to speed. I live on Achill and all my family are employed in the marine industries either through fisheries or coast guard - a deep water port has been suggested for Belmullet going back to the 1850s by the British Admiralty. I went to a West=on=Track rally a few years back an Fr. Michael outlined the eventual aim of the Knock spur being extended to a new deep water container port at Belmullet as well as reopening the old line from Sligo to Enniskillen.

What is on the West=on=Track site currently is just a starter. The endgame is to use the rail line as an pivot to swing the balance of power in The Pale over across the Shannon. They simply cannot put all there chickens out at once. It is a piecemeal approach. The long term aim is a new capital city for Ireland.

http://www.newcityforthewest.com/proposal.htm

People should be embracing these ideas with gutso. Dublin has not only failed the West, it has failed the rest of the country and even failed itself.

ClovenHoof

Kingdom wrote: »

That was the only logical conclusion I came up with too.

Why? Because people on this forum take umbridge with alternative viewpoints which run contray to the clique...

Amtmann

ClovenHoof wrote: »

The long term aim is a new capital city for Ireland.

http://www.newcityforthewest.com/proposal.htm

lol

That's a bit fantastical, isn't it? If people from the west hadn't insisted on scattering their dwellings willy-nilly all over the countryside, then Galway could well be thrice the city it is today, and your rail project might just be viable.

Calina

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Thanks for your comment but I think you are not up to speed. I live on Achill and all my family are employed in the marine industries either through fisheries or coast guard - a deep water port has been suggested for Belmullet going back to the 1850s by the British Admiralty. I went to a West=on=Track rally a few years back an Fr. Michael outlined the eventual aim of the Knock spur being extended to a new deep water container port at Belmullet as well as reopening the old line from Sligo to Enniskillen.

Whether it was suggested by the British Admiralty or not 150 years ago is of zero relevance to now. The truth is it might have been more useful as a naval base to them than it is as a commercial port right now.

In any case I stand over the comments that road infrastructure and industrial demand for a deep water port in Belmullet does not exist now.

corktina

Can you comment mr Hoof on my post that almost all the goods would be destined for one of the major cities...why would anyone want to pay for an extra rail journey when their goods could be freighted straight into the destination city?

I think you need to look beyond the WoT propaganda which is throughly debunked on this thread and the previous one.In fact, I think it would be an excellent idea if the two threads were merged if thats possible.

ClovenHoof

corktina wrote: »

Can you comment mr Hoof on my post that almost all the goods would be destined for one of the major cities...why would anyone want to pay for an extra rail journey when their goods could be freighted straight into the destination city?

Anything which can go on a truck can also go by train. If tax exemptions were made to allow shippers to install sidings to their warehouses or purchase even goods vans this would change the dynamic which is government policy favour of the lorry.

It makes good social and environmental sense. We have a whole generation growing up in Ireland which has been deluding into thinking that goods do not go by rail. This to me has been a design from the moment the Dublin Government told CIE to scrap the locomotives. Bertie was practically down at Spencer Dock himself with the blow torch.

When we have a level playing field then you'll get you answer!

Hungerford

Furet wrote: »

That's a bit fantastical, isn't it? If people from the west hadn't insisted on scattering their dwellings willy-nilly all over the countryside, then Galway could well be thrice the city it is today, and your rail project might just be viable.

It also hasn't been updated since 2004 and has a distinct religious (read conservative Catholic) tinge to it.

Ham'nd'egger

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Anything which can go on a truck can also go by train. If tax exemptions were made to allow shippers to install sidings to their warehouses or purchase even goods vans this would change the dynamic which is government policy favour of the lorry.

It makes good social and environmental sense. We have a whole generation growing up in Ireland which has been deluding into thinking that goods do not go by rail. This to me has been a design from the moment the Dublin Government told CIE to scrap the locomotives. Bertie was practically down at Spencer Dock himself with the blow torch.

When we have a level playing field then you'll get you answer!

You are right; anything that can go on a truck can go by train.... in theory. The reality is very different.

Most goods in lorry can not be rail hauled in practical terms while those that do need to be shifted in large enough amounts from A to B; rail still needs these goods to get from factory to the freight yard and from the freight yard to the shop floor. Given that we have very little heavy industry to speak of (Few mines or coal or steel etc), road haulage win out every time given it's practicality and ability to go from A to B and even C, D and E en route. What really knocked rail freight on the head in the context most people think of (and I fear you are thinking it as well) was not the truck but the van; your Iveco, Hiace and Transit takes care of what goods that used to be hauled on the old loose coupled trains of yesteryear.

corktina

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Anything which can go on a truck can also go by train. If tax exemptions were made to allow shippers to install sidings to their warehouses or purchase even goods vans this would change the dynamic which is government policy favour of the lorry.

It makes good social and environmental sense. We have a whole generation growing up in Ireland which has been deluding into thinking that goods do not go by rail. This to me has been a design from the moment the Dublin Government told CIE to scrap the locomotives. Bertie was practically down at Spencer Dock himself with the blow torch.

When we have a level playing field then you'll get you answer!

you havent answered the question.I was not suggesting a road vs rail scenario, I was talking about shipping...why would anyone want to pay to rail their goods to the major conurbations from belmullet when there are docks within all those cities to which those goods could go direct?

ClovenHoof

corktina wrote: »

you havent answered the question.I was not suggesting a road vs rail scenario, I was talking about shipping...why would anyone want to pay to rail their goods to the major conurbations from belmullet when there are docks within all those cities to which those goods could go direct?

If Dublin Port was downgraded or even closed completely then this would leave shippers with no choice other then to utilise non-Leinster ports.

Think outside the box.

corktina

now i know this is a wind up :rolleyes:....there wouldnt be any shippers left and no goods to shift if a plan like that was even partially implemented.

Calina

ClovenHoof wrote: »

If Dublin Port was downgraded or even closed completely then this would leave shippers with no choice other then to utilise non-Leinster ports.

Think outside the box.

The alternative for Dublin POrt is currently Balbriggan. Not only that there is a decent enough port in Rosslare I believe. And there are other ports closer to the urban areas than Belmullet.

There is no justifiable reason to force closure of these ports to support a port in Belmullet.

corktina

Foynes would be a more sensible alternative would it not? However thats in the wrong bit of the wesht isnt it...

ClovenHoof

Calina wrote: »

There is no justifiable reason to force closure of these ports to support a port in Belmullet.

Adressing regional inbalance between the Pale and the rest of the country is not a justifiable reason? Be realistic now. The only reason we still have Shannon and Knock is forcing the dead hand of Dublin to losen its selfish grip.

You do not seem to get just what a shower of cute hoors we can be out here when we want something.;)

lord lucan

ClovenHoof wrote: »

http://www.newcityforthewest.com/proposal.htm

People should be embracing these ideas with gutso. Dublin has not only failed the West, it has failed the rest of the country and even failed itself.

You couldn't make it up,classic!!!:D:D:D:D:D:D

ClovenHoof

Furet wrote: »

lol

That's a bit fantastical, isn't it? If people from the west hadn't insisted on scattering their dwellings willy-nilly all over the countryside, then Galway could well be thrice the city it is today, and your rail project might just be viable.

Laugh all you want but some heavy hitters are on board.

http://www.newcityforthewest.com/letterEurope.htm

Again, if this was planned for Swords or Naas it would be the best thing since sliced bread. Just because it is planned for Mayo it gets laughed at. Alright, I agree the catholic angle is not doing the project any favours, but so what. Look at the entire project.

Cool Mo D

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Adressing regional inbalance between the Pale and the rest of the country is not a justifiable reason? Be realistic now. The only reason we still have Shannon and Knock is forcing the dead hand of Dublin to losen its selfish grip.

You do not seem to get just what a shower of cute hoors we can be out here when we want something.;)

So your idea to bring prosperity to Mayo, is to cripple the most productive part of the country? There is less money spent by the government in Dublin, per head, then any other part of the country, and it contributes more to the exchequer, per head, than any other part of the country.
Would you not be better off coming up something that Mayo can do well by itself, and doing it properly?

Cute hoorism and stroke pulling is what has crippled the country both now, and in the past- it's time to consign it to the dustbin.

ClovenHoof

Cool Mo D wrote: »

So your idea to bring prosperity to the Mayo, is to cripple the most productive part of the country?

It is not like that at all. Dublin is bloated and dying. It is ravaged by crime, drugs and hen parties and is literally falling into the Irish Sea. It is a hellhole which brings the rest of the country down in the eyes of the world. No more development or infrastructure should be built in Dublin. Building metros is just throwing petrol on the fire.

A new Ireland west of the Shannon on a clean slate is a quality idea. Rather than the current situations of our people being banished to the reservation outside an extended Pale.

corktina

alleyluya Brothers I see the light!1