Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

dowlingm

WoT practically handpicked McCann and he could only barely stomach Ennis-Athenry, deferred Athenry-Claremorris and dismissed Claremorris-Collooney. In return IE and the government concentrated on slathering tarmac on former cattle loading docks in Ardrahan rather than maximising speed and capacity between Limerick and Galway. BE then turned around and crucified IE by introducing the express service. Arguing about where Dr Gurdgiev works now won't change these long debated facts.

It also doesn't change the fact that while Craughwell was getting its platform, untamped CWR was being laid on the Nenagh branch and CWR was laid on the Rosslare line while IE management were preparing to close it.

It doesn't change the fact that IE are continuing to use gross passenger numbers to hide the fact that the 106m Euro+ spent on this line has only marginally improved numbers from Ennis-Limerick, and most of that would have been got by opening Sixmilebridge which isn't on the new section and by conducting flood works now 100 years overdue, and by increasing frequency from Galway-Athenry with the help of a station in Oranmore with a passing loop and Galway Station Platform 3.

It doesn't change the fact that the Dunboyne service is being cut back when it should have been prioritised all the way to Navan to make use of the double track alignment - an alignment which is now being run into a bay platform instead by the looks.

It doesn't change the fact that Midleton could have been opened faster or Blarney opened period.

We can't spend the 106m multiple times, but there were several ways that it could have been used to tap existing, demonstrable demand, and those were ignored in favour of a lobby group in the west who demanded parity of esteem and promised that services would be jammed to the doors, and instead we have an alignment that's under patronised, too slow, makes too many stops, and seriously flooded at Kiltartan before the damn thing opened.

westtip

dowlingm wrote: »

It doesn't change the fact that IE are continuing to use gross passenger numbers to hide the fact that the 106m Euro+ spent on this line has only marginally improved numbers from Ennis-Limerick, and most of that would have been got by opening Sixmilebridge which isn't on the new section and by conducting flood works now 100 years overdue, and by increasing frequency from Galway-Athenry with the help of a station in Oranmore with a passing loop and Galway Station Platform 3.

.

Great post Dowling however - I am increasingly coming to the defence of IE, its WOT who are using the gross numbers with statements along the lines of Quarter of a million on the WRC etc. Yes IE want to be positive about the current line and try to get more passengers on with promotional fares that is incumbent upon them, but in their defence they have now released the breakdown figures for each section of the line once they were asked to by inquisitive and suspicisious minds, actually well done to IE for this degree of openness; previously getting actual figures on the new line required an FOI request into the department by a national newspaper. The only article in the national press about the Quarter of a million press release came on foot of the additional information IE provided - which gave an appropriate headline from the sub editor of news in the Irish Times last week. Just to remind any new or casual readers to this thread the headline was:

Western rail corridor passengers fall short of anticipated numbers the link remains here: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...298690086.html

The figures released by IE show the two pre-existing bits did not need the bit in the middle and the bit in the middle has underperformed. These figures have shown the lack of credible argument there ever was for even this section of the line - and will no doubt be noted and linked to the Dempsey speech at the opening of ennis/athenry - basically use it or lose it or at least use it to prove that phase 2 can be justified. Leo Varadkar is no ones fool and he will not be hood winked or at least I don't think he will - and I don't think this issue - is such a great vote winner that it ever was considered to be - and the simple reason for making this assumption is that if it was such a critical piece of infrastructure if it really mattered to most voters - then why oh why hasn't phase one been a rip roaring success? The issue has only been made an "important and critical issue for voters in the west" by those who have campaigned for it, by those who have attended endless committee meetings on expenses to talk about it - those that have attached it to their CV as part of their career. Thats my take on it anyway - the fact that thousands of people signed a petition in its favour back in the halcyon days of the Celtic Tiger is a false argument - the real figures about people that matter are the usage figures of the actual track now, remind everyone again: Business case sold to the Department of Transport were for 100,000 passengers per annum, the actual numbers in first year 50,000, it has failed. Now for what I have been banging on about it for years - the real figures about usage of facilities like the Great Western Greenway - I have heard its up to 2,000 users a day now at weekends - and guess what they all spend money even if its only on a bottle of water in a 7/11, but a lot buy meals, pints, sweets, icecreams, soft drinks, rent bikes, buy bikes, rent beds, recommend the experience to their friends etc. Come back do it all over again and again..... This is now the only option left for the WRC and guess what it will be a good news for the west, the success of the Great Western Greenway will create a domino effect across the west - if only the vision is there to see and grasp the opportunity.

LXFlyer

I would not absolve IE from some of the blame. The fact remains that the scheduling of the services on the line has been (and to an extent remains) very poor and this is a factor in terms of passenger numbers.

CIE

lxflyer wrote: »

I would not absolve IE from some of the blame. The fact remains that the scheduling of the services on the line has been (and to an extent) remains very poor and this is a factor in terms of passenger numbers.

Have to agree 100%. But would not IE (and parent company) have to take all of the blame there, as owner/operator? never mind the parent company also instituting the "competing" parallel express bus service? (which is too reminiscent of what "killed off" many rail services a half-century ago, with all due respect)

I also don't see WOT as being the owner or operator of the currently-operating service, so going after an advocacy group is a canard.

corktina

no the people to blame are the weak, vote-hungry politicians that allowed this farce to go ahead. It should have been firmly put down before it ever got off the ground.

Aard

Speaking of weak, vote-hungry politicians, is all the blame to be put at Dempsey's doorstep, or were there others more involved than him?

westtip

CIE wrote: »

Have to agree 100%. But would not IE (and parent company) have to take all of the blame there, as owner/operator? never mind the parent company also instituting the "competing" parallel express bus service? (which is too reminiscent of what "killed off" many rail services a half-century ago, with all due respect)

I also don't see WOT as being the owner or operator of the currently-operating service, so going after an advocacy group is a canard.

Yes but they seem to have undue influence on councillors in groups like the intercounty western railway committee, this influence cannot be ignored, and the release of the new information about the quarter of a million passengers which has been ripped apart on these boards was I believe driven by West on Tracks influence on that particular committee. Yes the news release may have come from IE but who drove its release - and then it was challenged to reveal the truth. IE could only put on services within its limited resources and to expect the service levels you might expect on a real commuter line service serving decent population centres was frankly fantasy - anyway as I said a few posts back - the service level has been improved - in terms of timetable, promotional fares have been put in place lets see what difference it makes - the line needs to improve dramatically to prove itself. Will this happen? I have my doubts, yes there might be some uplift in numbers but numbers that can get anywhere near justifying this farce??

Aard wrote: »

Speaking of weak, vote-hungry politicians, is all the blame to be put at Dempsey's doorstep, or were there others more involved than him?

No he was just one in a line who buckled under the unrelenting pressure from West on Track, Seamus Brennan RIP go the ball rollin, then of course we had Martin Cullen (never to be forgotten) and then Noel Dempsey who did cut the ribbon on Ennis/Athenry, actually taking into account what Dempsey said at the opening of the line "However, we all have to face the reality that the current funding environment is very difficult and it will not be possible to progress all the projects in Transport 21 in accordance with the ambitious timescale envisioned at its launch.” I think by the time he left office he was just following orders the real person to blame is the spineless one at the top of Government Aherne who just caved in to every pressure group who turned up in town. His style of leadership, poor management and overall lack of ability meant very poor decisions got taken at cabinet under his stewardship - he truly will go down as the architect of much of our troubles, for being such a yes man.

Interesting that Leo V didn't even mention the WRC in his interview in the Irish Times today! Article Link Below

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...297854292.html

dowlingm

Westtip - WoT's most recent pronouncement re 250k pax merely quoted IE Corporate Comms release.

westtip

dowlingm wrote: »

Westtip - WoT's most recent pronouncement re 250k pax merely quoted IE Corporate Comms release.

Which they wrote or in my opinion influenced the wording of following the meeting of the Western Intercounty Railway committee on May 20th. After that meeting West on Track issued an email sent to all councillors in Sligo and Mayo referring to "misleading information and often false information" being sent to councillors about the performance of the line and that irish rail would be releasing information refuting these figures in the next few days, what they actually said was "These claims will be publicly refuted by Iarnród Éireann in the most comprehensive manner in the next few days and a copy of their statement will be sent to you" A few days later out came the corporate press release which ony mentioned the headline figure of 250,000. The original corporate press release did not give the breakdown figures, these had to be requested and published after the corporate statement had been released and after that original press release had been shall we say questioned by certain people. Only after the truth was out did we see the national press pick up on the real story - BTW forgot to post up the bit in the Indo last Friday

New rail route falls short
IRISH Rail said yesterday the first phase of the Western Rail Corridor has recorded 'a creditable performance' in spite of passenger numbers falling well short of those anticipated.

Figures released by Irish Rail for the route's first 12 months show a total of 53,187 passengers travelled on the the new €106m Ennis to Athenry service -- far short of the expected 100,000.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/mcguinness-relative-charged-2671065.html

Trying to massage the truth claiming a Quarter of a million people are using the WRC has completely back fired on West on Track, the two national papers - Times and Independent have focussed on the real headline - Failure of the line to deliver the mythical 100,000 people on the ennis-athenry through route. Its hilarious really.

mgmt

WOT in the Examiner Today:

Rail service on the right track

Tuesday, June 14, 2011

YOUR news item (June 10), on the Western Rail Corridor, states that although the Western Rail Corridor had a "creditable year" passenger numbers are "well short" of the anticipated numbers.


I believe this article gives a misleading impression and that a number of issues need to be clarified.

As mentioned in your article, Iarnród Éireann has announced that the opening of the Galway-Limerick route has generated more than a quarter of a million passengers along that route in its first year.

Indeed, since its inception in March 2010, Iarnród Éireann has been at pains to point out that Galway-Limerick is the actual route being served. There is in fact no designated "Ennis-Athenry service" because the trains are Limerick-Galway services and these towns are merely stations along that route.

Nor was there ever a campaign to open an Ennis-Athenry service.

The whole point about reconnecting the line between those towns was to provide a Galway-Limerick rail corridor and the figures released by Iarnród Éireann show that this has been a success.

The provision of additional commuter services on the line, the addition of linking services to Dublin and the construction of two new stations at Oranmore and Crusheen will certainly strengthen the performance of the line even further.

Oddly enough, these positive announcements by Iarnród Éireann were omitted from your article. The measurement of passenger numbers on the Galway-Limerick route has been a cause of ill-informed comment and misunderstanding. The so-called business case was based on the provision of seven trains in each direction per day. However, the actual number provided was five in each direction, so the "targets" were actually in abeyance even before the line opened.

The only sensible measure of the performance of the Galway-Limerick line is the numbers travelling along the entire route whether they be short-haul commuters or intercity passengers.

Regarding the cost of the line, it was surely extraordinary that a business case was drawn up for part of a proposed route particularly when a significant part of the expenditure was planned to take place outside of that section. The construction of Sixmilebridge and Oranmore stations, as well as other significant works between Galway and Athenry and Ennis-Limerick are all included in the figure of €106m mentioned in your article, yet all of these works are outside of the Ennis-Athenry section.

Nevertheless, the erroneous impression continues to be conveyed in the media and elsewhere that all of this funding has been spent on the Ennis-Athenry service. In actual fact, a considerable portion of that figure has not been spent at all yet.

The provision of additional services and new stations is a clear indication that Iarnród Éireann believes that the Galway-Limerick route will continue to grow and prosper.

Iarnród Éireann deserves to be commended for the performance of the Galway-Limerick route despite the worst economic downturn in our history.

Colmán Ó Raghallaigh
West on Track
Claremorris
Co Mayo

This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Tuesday, June 14, 2011


Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/letters/rail-service-on-the-right-track-157696.html#ixzz1PEmPOOdB

Jaysus what cloud are they on. Just over 50,000 traveled between Limerick and Galway. Failure. The express bus only started in November. Next years figures will take a battering.

westtip

mgmt wrote: »

WOT in the Examiner Today:



Jaysus what cloud are they on. Just over 50,000 traveled between Limerick and Galway. Failure. The express bus only started in November. Next years figures will take a battering.

Thanks for spotting that one, did the examiner report the more negative side of the story then - Bingo all three national broadsheets wen negative on the corridor.....oh dear oh dear the cat is out the bag.

but my god they are clutching at straws now: Take these sentence from Colmans letter:

"

Nor was there ever a campaign to open an Ennis-Athenry service."

Well Derek as you always said it was about getting the railway to Claremorris! but its hilarious to hear west on track there was no campaign to open this service - so wots it all been about boys?

"The only sensible measure of the performance of the Galway-Limerick line is the numbers travelling along the entire route whether they be short-haul commuters or intercity passengers."

Ah so it''s not a corridor but a northern branch line to Galway and a southern branch line to Galway - what about the corridor argument from Sligo to Limerick??? It's more a T junction if you ask me. As for the short haul passengers (mixing his travelling metaphors here - I think he means Ennis limerick commuters and Athenry Galway commuters), they didn't need the bit in the middle and the travelling public on these bits of line could have had their service level much improved if some meaningful improvements had been made on these two proven sections of extant line.

"The so-called business case was based on the provision of seven trains in each direction per day. However, the actual number provided was five in each direction, so the "targets" were actually in abeyance even before the line opened.

Well they should know sure they wrote the "so called business case" - indeed Colman that's exactly what it was a "so called business case" so called by West on Track. OK so it was based on 7 trains up and down not 5 so you got 72% of the service levels you expected but only achieved 50% of the targets - ahem - I would call that significant under performance wouldn't you.

"Regarding the cost of the line, it was surely extraordinary that a business case was drawn up for part of a proposed route particularly when a significant part of the expenditure was planned to take place outside of that section. The construction of Sixmilebridge and Oranmore stations, as well as other significant works between Galway and Athenry and Ennis-Limerick are all included in the figure of €106m mentioned in your article, yet all of these works are outside of the Ennis-Athenry section.

Now this does take the biscuit. It is so full of contradictions - on the one hand they want to talk up the 250,000 journies but they say the only cost part you are allowed to refer to is on the Ennis/Athenry section - so whats it to be WOT? One word that he did get right in this letter - "Extraordinary"

The masters of spin are going dizzy and I think its from going around in circles with their own jackanories.

serfboard

The point about how the national papers reported the figures is well made. Have a look at two completely contrasting takes on the numbers. The first was on Galway Bay FM last Friday.

Galway Bay FM wrote:

WESTERN RAIL CORRIDOR USER NUMBERS EXCEED EXPECTATIONS

The West on track campaign group expects the Limerick to Galway train route to exceed all passenger number expectations this year.

250 thousand journeys have been made on the Limerick to Galway route, including the Limerick to Ennis and Athnery to Galway commuter services since it opened on March 2010.

New services have also been introduced along the Western Rail Corridor.

They include a new evening service between Galway and Ennis and extra services connecting the corridor to Galway-Dublin services.

Irish Rail says it now hopes to have a station up and running in Oranmore by the second half of next year.

Colmán O Raghallaigh of West on Track says he's confident that the new services should make the line even more popular.

However, the Irish Times has a completely different slant.

Western rail corridor passengers fall short of anticipated numbers

Irish Rail says the first phase of the western rail corridor has recorded “a credible performance” in spite of passenger numbers falling well short of the anticipated numbers, writes Gordon Deegan.

Figures released yesterday by Irish Rail for the route’s first 12 months show that 53,187 passengers travelled on the the new €106 million Ennis-Athenry service.

The numbers fall far short of the anticipated 100,000 in its business case for reopening the line. Irish Rail also said there were 252,607 rail passengers between Limerick and Galway.

Irish Rail corporate communications manager Barry Kenny said: “The business case obviously did not provide for the calamitous recession, which has impacted on demand for all transport due to reduced economic activity”.

I love this one:

West-On-Track wrote:

The whole point about reconnecting the line between those towns was to provide a Galway-Limerick rail corridor and the figures released by Iarnród Éireann show that this has been a success.

In fact, the figures show that it has been a failure. What the figures show is that the Ennis-Limerick is around the same, and Galway-Athenry numbers are up - but neither of those is on the new corridor.

Aidan1 wrote: »

If that means cutting mid day services (which having to be running empty going by the figures), then so much spared.

I would agree with the point about off-peak services on the route - they must be empty, and, in fact, according to the Connacht Tribune we could see them cut.

The Connacht Tribune wrote:

And with €30 million slashed from the CIE budget, there is little chance of the Western Rail Corridor being extended to Tuam within the next few years – indeed, there is every possibility that some of the services between Galway and Limerick could be axed in the process.

CIE wrote: »

never mind the parent company also instituting the "competing" parallel express bus service? (which is too reminiscent of what "killed off" many rail services a half-century ago, with all due respect)

mgmt wrote: »

Just over 50,000 traveled between Limerick and Galway. Failure. The express bus only started in November. Next years figures will take a battering.

CIE, I don't agree that "the parent company instituted a 'competing' parallel express bus service". Bus Eireann did it, because, you can be sure that if they didn't Citylink or GoBus would. In fact, Citylink already run a competing Galway->Limerick service. If there was no competition from BE they would have targeted a motorway run. BE was only protecting/growing its own revenue, and who wouldn't want it to do that? If the Bus Service is better timetabled, cheaper and faster people will use it.

foggy_lad

Apart from some difficulty on one journey I found the X51 service more comfortable and quieter as well as faster and a lot cheaper than the train.

westtip

serfboard wrote: »

The point about how the national papers reported the figures is well made. Have a look at two completely contrasting takes on the numbers. The first was on Galway Bay FM last Friday.


Serf the point is this, the local rags and local radio stations will always talk up the figures given to them by West on track - its got a lot to do with the standard of journalism on local newspapers and this applies pretty much anywhere - you often find local news stories are verbatim use of press releases because local journos have space to fill and just copy paste what they get in press releases, although I have to say the Western People and Mayo News did not run with the WOT press release last week - I have not picked up the western yet but will check it out later today - WOT issued the press release - and the local media just said oh go on use it - it must be true it must be news, the national press took it with a bucket of salt and waited till they got the real figures a few days later, a news story driven by what was published in this thread, and then published the real story behind the numbers - that ennis athenry was a failure. I doubt the local news media will go with the negative news - its all about giving their readership what they want - when the decision to kill the line off north of Athenry is made the local media will bleat about dublin based media being at fault etc and the anti wesht bleating will come out ... its as predictable as night following day. A lot of the local media in the west can't lose face by abandonning west on track - as the campaign has been so long it runs through the blood of some people, its a pity because changing mind and looking at an alternative is what the west needs - and if one of the big regionals did swing in with support for a different idea (and I mean the Western People really) then that would be a breakthrough for good journalism, mind you the Sligo champion has run very good features on the sligo mayo greenway campaign...:-)

MayoForSam

:rolleyes: Taken from today's Mayo News: http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12956:the-western-rail-corridor-and-the-national-press&catid=81:defacto&Itemid=100038

They’re at it again! The doomsayers and futile word merchants coated in Dublin 4 speak are brushing down their poisoned pens to have a crack at the Western Rail Corridor. For some strange reason the notion of re-opening the Western Rail Corridor from Sligo to Limerick rankles with some people. It is now partly re-opened, from Limerick to Galway, with a few moves yet for it to complete its journey to Sligo. Regardless of official figures released by Iarnród Éireann, unfortunately, some of the national organs of the fourth estate are most negative towards their ‘country cousins.’
Over 250,000 journeys have been made on the Limerick-Galway route, including the Limerick-Ennis and Athenry-Galway commuter services. That section of the line officially re-opened on March 30, 2010. Iarnród Éireann has expressed confidence that service changes now in place will continue to attract more customers to the route. The company is also maintaining its introductory promotional fare of €10 each way because it is so successful. Only last week the paper of record reported that the re-opened section of the line from Galway to Limerick is failing to meet its targets, claiming that passenger numbers are “well short” of the anticipated numbers. It is not the first time the Irish Times has painted this picture. It occurred also a few months ago with a similar report about passenger numbers.
Iarnród Éireann announced recently that the re-opening of the Galway-Limerick line has generated more than a quarter of a million passengers along that route in its first year. Iarnród Éireann always states that Galway-Limerick is the actual route being served and it is so described in its official timetables. Iarnród Éireann does not break up the line like some of the national media and concentrate on figures from Ennis to Athenry. Imagine Iarnród Éireann stating that the Westport to Ballyhaunis passenger figures are not meeting expectations or Tullamore to Portalington figures are not standing up. It does not make sense to think in those terms yet some media outlets persist in doing so.
Colman Ó’Raghallaigh from the West-on-Track campaign, in response to the Irish Times report states: “There is in fact no designated ‘Ennis-Athenry service’ because the trains are Limerick-Galway services and these towns are merely stations along that route. Nor was there was ever a campaign to open an Ennis-Athenry service. The whole point about reconnecting the line between those towns was to provide a Galway-Limerick rail corridor and the figures released by Iarnród Éireann show that this has been a success… additional commuter services on the line (there were previously a number of Ennis-Limerick services in operation) and the construction of two new stations at Oranmore and Crusheen will certainly strengthen the performance of the line even further. Oddly enough, these positive announcements by Iarnród Éireann were omitted from the (Irish Times) article.”
Mr Ó’Raghallaigh also takes issue with the ongoing misrepresentation and misunderstanding of passenger figures on the Galway to Limerick line. “The measurement of passenger numbers on the Galway-Limerick route has consistently been a cause of ill-informed comment and misunderstanding. The so-called business case was based on the provision of 7 trains in each direction per day. However, the actual number provided was 5 in each direction, so the “targets” were actually in abeyance even before the line opened. A fully operational station at Oranmore was also factored in but this station has not yet been built.”
There are other strange anomalies with the business plan figures also. Some do not seem to matter while others are not counted, according to Mr Ó’Raghallaigh. “Bizarrely, although the services provided run from Galway to Limerick those travelling outside of the newly-constructed Ennis-Limerick section are not counted as passengers. For example, a passenger buying a ticket in Galway to travel to Athenry on a Galway-Limerick train is not counted as a passenger for the purposes of the “business plan.” Similarly, a passenger boarding a Limerick-Galway train to travel to Ennis is not counted. It is also the case that because stations between Ennis and Athenry are unmanned, Iarnród Éireann is currently unable to provide figures for the numbers of OAPs and other exempted passengers being carried on that section.”
Mr Ó’Raghallaigh praises Iarnród Éireann for attempting to convey in their recent announcement that the only sensible measure of the performance of the Galway-Limerick line is the numbers travelling along the entire route whether they be short-haul commuters or intercity passengers.
The latest red herring is for a greenway on the Claremorris to Colooney section! Remember that €7,500 million has been set aside for rail projects in Dublin. Phases 2 and 3 of the Western Rail Corridor can be completed for the cost of 100 metres of the Dublin underground Dart! Dublin papers please copy!

Yes, I am now beginning to see the effect of less people doing Honours Maths in the Leaving Cert is having on performing basic arithmetic.

I especially like the comment at the end:

Remember that €7,500 million has been set aside for rail projects in Dublin. Phases 2 and 3 of the Western Rail Corridor can be completed for the cost of 100 metres of the Dublin underground Dart!

As if this government has €7.5 billion to spend on ANYTHING, never mind infrastructural rail projects!

Of course, another dig at the Claremorris-Colooney Greenway proposal is squeezed in there as well.

As an Irish citizen living west of the Shannon, in this instance I have to side with common sense i.e. the "national organs of the fourth estate" and not the local mouth-piece.

westtip

Thankfully the influence of the Mayo News doesn't extend far beyond Ballyhaunis, but its great they mentioned the Greenway, it gives the idea more credibility in the context of this article and anyone reading it might say - hey thats a good idea so the more they talk about it in the context of Railway or Greenway the better it is.

I think West on Track read this thread so well done boys another own goal in the media, if the best you can manage in terms of media coverage is this rather pathetic parish pump tirade from the Mayo News I reckon you need to employ a better PRO or spokesperson because you are not handling the media very well - You have lost the national press - BTW the irish times journo who has written about the appalling figures is based in the mid west and guess what they will love this kind of coverage down in Dublin - BTW keep getting your friends in the local media to really talk up the debate - of railway versus greenway on the northern section and lets see how people working in the tourism and leisure industry think, keep it up lads, I don't like to throw both ends of a rope to a drowning man - but here you go lads CATCH.

highlydebased

Rawr

highlydebased wrote: »

Westworld of course!



May god help them when the robot cowboys come around.

On a serious note, it is shocking to see anyone react this way towards a greenway. It's not like anyone is suggeting to build a line of houses on the line! All anyone is suggesting, is to pull up a the rotten useless rails, and put down some tarmac. That's it!

The line can be used as a cycle/walkway while protecting it for possible future use! I get that WOT may be upset about any suggestion beyond reopening that line, but as it stands, that line must be too rotten to support an Inspection Car. It needs to be ripped up either way!

L1011

Rawr wrote: »

I get that WOT may be upset about any suggestion beyond reopening that line, but as it stands, that line must be too rotten to support an Inspection Car. It needs to be ripped up either way!

Athenry to Tuam probably could take EM50 and I'm still convinced it could be reopened to much the same quality as some other sections of line with minimal expenditure (its in extremely good condition for its age). However I still don't think that THAT expenditure would be justified.


The Greenway suitable section? Rotten buckled mess being infringed on by every adjacent landowner. It realistically *needs* something like a Greenway to preserve right of way.

DWCommuter

The West of Ireland is how the entire nation would have been without British Rule.

God Save the Queen.

westtip

Meant to put this in the post yesterday - its that last bit in the Mayo News - it actually shows the quality of journalism and lack of research the paper has:

The latest red herring is for a greenway on the Claremorris to Colooney section! Mayo News June14 2011

Eamon O’Cuiv: In a speech at a conference about the Western Rail Corridor in May 2009. Mr O’Cuiv when Minister for Community and Gaeltacht affairs said:

“should we use the section of the railway line north of Claremorris as a walkway and cycleway while it is not open as railway?”

The conference which the local media attended, was held in Claremorris County Mayo. It just goes to show the quality of research the Mayo News puts into its lead articles. As I said before if this is the best the PR machine at WOT can achieve in terms of media coverage the game is up.

DWCommuter

You can build your garden over it.

You can build your driveway over it.

You can build a car showroom over it.

You cannot build a money making Greenway over it.

dermo88

Playing devils advocate:

The detractors of the rebuilt Ennis to Athenry section like to mention the €109 Million capital cost of reconstruction and resignalling. In fairness, it sounds emotive to mention that figure and claim that it is useless.

On the right side of the puzzle.

(a) They forget that this is sufficient to keep the line in modern condition for the next 30 years or so.

(b) We assume in the worst case scenario that there are 75,000 users per annum on that section. This will rise in time, as every previous railway project has shown. Consider that the usage of Limerick to Ennis was initially very poor. Now its sustainable. It takes time to build the passenger traffic.

(c) Therefore the capital cost is €5 Euro per passenger over that timeframe, and for the section in question, 10 cents per passenger kilometre.

On the left side.

(a) Colman O'Raghallaigh claims that the amount to rebuild the Northern section will "build less than 100 meters of Metro North, or DART underground. However.

(b) Lets take that mortgage timeframe and passenger kilometer equation again for the 7.5 kilometer DART underground tunnel.

(c) Usage increases on that section to 100,000 passengers per day and in the worst case scenario over 30 years, thats 1.08 Billion passengers. The capital cost is €4.50 per passenger with the costs being €4.5 Billion. For the section in question, 7 cents per passenger kilometre.

(d) The same argument can be applied to both Cork-Midleton, and Clonsilla-Navan. The capital costs are roughly around 6 cents per passenger kilometre in both cases.

*These are back of the fag pack mental calculations done on the fly based on memory.

On balance:

(a) All proposed projects offer benefits to the network. However, some qield a far greater long term benefit.

(b) The role of railways is to reduce road traffic congestion and increase mobility at a net benefit to the environment, to society, and if fortunate make a profit.

(c) The role of railways is to increase the net asset value of surrounding communities which will yield better returns on real estate taxes, and increased economic activity. (More or less expanding on point

Likely scenario:

(a) I believe that the Limerick to Galway project is a cleverly engineered conspiracy to sabotage the cause of long term rail investment in Ireland.

(b) Why:

- IBEC
- SIPTU.....after all, a Bus needs more employees than a train for a given number of people, particularly in the core urban centres of Dublin, Cork, possibly also Galway and Limerick.
- Motor Industry and AA are a politically powerful lobby, just as powerful as the Unions and the likes of the Vinters Federation. One metric for calculating economic growth has been the level of car sales. These also yield a huge cashflow to the exchequer, so much so that around 20% of state revenues originate from the motorist, and commuters spend 20% of their income on cars and fuel.
- Therefore it is desirable for the state to pay 'lip service' to public transport. They will dangle the carrot of 'improvements' for decades. Eventually, they are forced to deliver, after too many consultations, analyses, legal wranglings and all types of messing around

(c) Financial crises have historically always lead to a hard nosed cost benefit analysis of the railway network. Refer to

- 1957 Beddy Report (Carried out during and after a severe recession)
- 1971 Mc Kinsey Report (Again......after an economic downturn, forced by the 1967 devaluation of Sterling and inflationary pressures)
- 1980 Mc Kinsey Report (Losses on CIE Rail had ballooned from 3 Million Pounds in 1971 to 39 Million Pounds in 1980, a 3 fold increase in that period vis a vis inflation - 13 fold actual, vs a CPI of 4.04 over that period).

(d) Politicians and civil servants around the world have never dared tackle rural based rail services. Even Amtrak survived because it was too much of a political hot potato to remove many irrelevant services. The same parallels existed in Australia, New Zealand, Germany, Spain, which have cutback rural routes to a certain extent.

Therefore they use consultants such as Ernst and Young, Mc Kinsey, etc to tell them at relatively high expense what the dogs on the street can tell them.

(e) Leo Varadkar is caught between a rock and a hard place, having inherited an ab$olute $hit$torm from Fianna Fail, Dempsey and the cronies.

(f) The detractors stated as much in 2004. Personally I think, Limerick to Galway MAY yield benefits in the medium term, if the pedestrian speeds and loose timetabling are dealt with. It prevents the Northern section from going ahead if it underperforms, which is fair enough. The advocates however will continue to push for it, in my eyes as it is a glorified QUANGO to have expensive conferences and consultations.

It has become a talking shop.
_______________________________________________________________________
My advice however for detractors is not to be provoked anymore. What has been said has been repeated many times. West on Track would like nothing better than to enter here and describe us as a "bunch of misfits", or state that we engaged in "slander". That would justify their twisted agenda. The politicians know this. The civil servants know this. A certain other website knows this also.....which is why so many have been banned.

Ironically, had it been a success, personally, and I do not think I am alone in this, would be happy to state.

"Wow.....congratulations, sorry, I was incorrect".

But West on Track have'nt got the balls to turn around and grant that same courtesy. I could become satirical now, and become incredibly sarcastic, but that will merely destroy the logical flow. They are not worth the hassle.

Meanwhile, I am off to drop some of Robert Mugabes babies at the swimming pool before going to the pub. Its been a couple of weeks since I dropped by, and I need a drink.

mgmt

A railway station for 377 people.

Boost for Western Rail Corridor as new station gets approval

By Gordon Deegan

Wednesday, June 15, 2011

THE €106 million Western Rail Corridor was given a boost yesterday when a new station on the route got the green light.


Clare County Council has given the go-ahead to Iarnród Éireann to construct a station at Crusheen, 10 kilometres north of Ennis.

The granting of permission comes as figures for the corridor’s first year show that the numbers using the line are falling short of those anticipated in its business case.

A total of 53,187 passengers travelled on the Ennis to Athenry service — falling short of the anticipated 100,000 in the business case for re-opening the line. However, a total of 252,607 passengers travelled between Limerick and Galway last year.

Iarnród Éireann corporate communications manager, Barry Kenny, said Crusheen, along with Oranmore station, will open in the first half of 2012.

Mr Kenny said that Oranmore Station was envisaged in the business case, pointing out: "It is not yet built and will undoubtedly generate additional passenger numbers on what is the busiest stretch of the line."

The business case envisaged seven services each way daily — while Iarnród Éireann has operated from March 2010 to April 2011 with five each way.

Welcoming the go-ahead for the Crusheen stop yesterday, a spokesman for West on Track said: "Crusheen is part of a range of new developments on the Galway-Limerick section of the Western Rail Corridor.

The spokesman said "there had been attempts to play down the success of the Galway-Limerick route but that the recent announcements of new services, connections for Dublin and the two new stations served to underline the success of the railway over its first year. The construction of Crusheen and Oranmore needs to be viewed in the context of the news that a quarter of a million passengers have travelled on services on the Galway-Limerick route in its first year, availing of commuter and inter-city services.

"There are now up to 26 distinct services operating daily on phase one of the Western Rail Corridor. We are confident that the additional new and improved services and connections, together with these new stations, will lead to continued strong growth across the route, leading to further expansion and development in the near future."

This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Wednesday, June 15, 2011


Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/boost-for-western-rail-corridor-as-new-station-gets-approval-157895.html#ixzz1PL3eW4wx

westtip

mgmt wrote: »

A railway station for 377 people.

Indeed but I am inclined to agree with the essay above your post by Dermo88 (great post BTW) - let them away with the fairies counting the social welfare riders and pensioners, piling in from Crusheen etc we all know now nothing is going to happen north of Athenry probably not even my greenway.

do you remember the famous green biker going through crusheen - I hope all the poeple in this clip will be jumping on their beloved branch line, you really need to listen to this to remind yourself of what rubbish was going on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TzfFlIWjkk&playnext=1&list=PL2B88315CFF01167B

Please do listen to colman in the first few minutes this is the best line: "you will have hundreds of people on the train travelling together"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlfd4tqYwf4&playnext=1&list=PL2B88315CFF01167B

this one covers Crusheen - listen to the interviews with the locals then make sure you get your season ticket early - clearly there will be a stampede.

This programme with Duncan Stewart was so unbelievably naive it is worth listening to again - for no other reason than to cry with laughter.

serfboard

westtip wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TzfFlIWjkk&playnext=1&list=PL2B88315CFF01167B

Please do listen to colman in the first few minutes this is the best line: "you will have hundreds of people on the train travelling together"

Well, if he had told the truth and said there will be 14 people travelling together how likely would it have been that he would have got funding :rolleyes:

westtip wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlfd4tqYwf4&playnext=1&list=PL2B88315CFF01167B

this one covers Crusheen - listen to the interviews with the locals then make sure you get your season ticket early - clearly there will be a stampede.

This programme with Duncan Stewart was so unbelievably naive it is worth listening to again - for no other reason than to cry with laughter.

I pass by Crusheen regularly enough on the new M18. Guess how many people I've ever seen leave or join at that junction - NONE! Nobody from Crusheen ever joins the motorway as I pass, which makes me query whether it was even worthwhile building a motorway junction there (IMO no, and considering that a far larger town Buttevant, is having a hard job making its case for a junction on the M20).

In the documentary, Duncan mentions all the traffic that was in Crusheen - as if to some way justify a train station. That was all passing through Duncan! The news that the station is going to open in Crusheen to allow no-one on, will make the journey slower. Woohoo!

Colman Ó&#8217 wrote: »

Nor was there was ever a campaign to open an Ennis-Athenry service. The whole point about reconnecting the line between those towns was to provide a Galway-Limerick rail corridor and the figures released by Iarnród Éireann show that this has been a success

Again, the figures do most emphatically not show that. What they do show is that extra services to Athenry from Galway and to Ennis from Limerick have brought about increased passenger numbers in the first instance, and no real change in the second.

DWCommuter wrote: »

The West of Ireland is how the entire nation would have been without British Rule.

God Save the Queen.

That is one silly comment.

glineli

serfboard wrote: »

I pass by Crusheen regularly enough on the new M18. Guess how many people I've ever seen leave or join at that junction - NONE! Nobody from Crusheen ever joins the motorway as I pass, which makes me query whether it was even worthwhile building a motorway junction there (IMO no, and considering that a far larger town Buttevant, is having a hard job making its case for a junction on the M20).

I am not too sure what time you pass the junction, but i think you must be just missing any joining cars. I live in Crusheen, use the M18 everyday to galway, and i see quite a lot of other cars using it.

DWCommuter

serfboard wrote: »

That is one silly comment.

No its not.

westtip

glineli wrote: »

I am not too sure what time you pass the junction, but i think you must be just missing any joining cars. I live in Crusheen, use the M18 everyday to galway, and i see quite a lot of other cars using it.

and will you switch to the train when you get a station?

bk

dermo88 wrote: »

- SIPTU.....after all, a Bus needs more employees than a train for a given number of people, particularly in the core urban centres of Dublin, Cork, possibly also Galway and Limerick.

I agree with most of what you say, but I would like to question and discuss this point.

A typical coach carries 55 passengers I believe.

The Cork to Dublin trains seem to carry 68 passengers per carriage, at 5 carriages equals 340 passengers.

You would therefore need 7 coaches/drivers.

However how many employees on on the train, I assume 5, driver, engineer, two catering staff, train host.

So that is 2 less then coach. But now how many staff are needed to clean the train, maintain the train, maintain the stations, security in the stations, ticket sellers.

Of course BE also have stations and station staff, but far less stations then IR and no road maintenance staff *. Private coach operators have even less staff, with no stations. Of course all have maintenance staff.

So I expect both rail and coach have roughly the same number of staff per 1000 passengers. However I'd love to see real figures, perhaps I can figure this out from BE and IR annual reports.

Of course this over looks the greater flexibility of coach. Coach drivers are typically much easier, faster and cheaper to train and employ.

You can typically increase or decrease the number of coaches needed depending on demand much quicker then rail.

If demand increase you could buy new coaches and train new drivers in less then three months. You can even contract in other coach operators to temporarily add extra services to a route. Ordering extra trains and carriages is typically a multi year process.

* You could argue that road maintainence staff should be included in a fair comparison, but in reality, a road is going to be maintained for private car users and road haulage either way. So from a high level value for money perspective, I'd argue it shouldn't be included.