Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

CIE

runway16 wrote: »

Well, if whta you say is correct, then how come Brussels didnt put a stop to the WRC phase 1 then?

Because they approved of it? And why should they "put a stop" to something that costs a tenth of what a motorway costs, per unit length?

mgmt

CIE wrote: »

Because they approved of it? And why should they "put a stop" to something that costs a tenth of what a motorway costs, per unit length?

...and carries 1/1000th of the traffic per unit length

runway16

CIE wrote: »

Because they approved of it? And why should they "put a stop" to something that costs a tenth of what a motorway costs, per unit length?

You were the one who claimed they have the final say. So one would imagine that they would be within their rights to put a stop to it then, no?

Especially as every report you could mention was against the plan in the first instance.

Neworder79

Oranmore station planning application has been lodged for a location on Gurrane Road between Oranmore and Roscan.

http://www.galwayindependent.com/local-news/local-news/planning-permission-submitted-for-oranmore-train-station/

westtip

Here's my prediction for 2011.

Nothing will happen on the northern section of the WRC. end of prediction.

KevR

Neworder79 wrote: »

Oranmore station planning application has been lodged for a location on Gurrane Road between Oranmore and Roscan.

http://www.galwayindependent.com/local-news/local-news/planning-permission-submitted-for-oranmore-train-station/

I wonder if they will build a new walkway from the station directly to the Oranmore Business Park; this would entail building a pedestrian bridge over the R446 Dual Carriageway?

The existing pedestrian route from the station site to the Business Park is really long and a section of it has no footpath! Nobody will walk that far, they will just drive instead and not bother using the train.

westtip

KevR wrote: »

I wonder if they will build a new walkway from the station directly to the Oranmore Business Park; this would entail building a pedestrian bridge over the R446 Dual Carriageway?

The existing pedestrian route from the station site to the Business Park is really long and a section of it has no footpath! Nobody will walk that far, they will just drive instead and not bother using the train.

Not to mention a passing loop.

foggy_lad

Possibly because it takes too long to travel the rails regardless of how cheaply the line was reopened!

CIE wrote: »

Because they approved of it? And why should they "put a stop" to something that costs a tenth of what a motorway costs, per unit length?

corktina

Good point Foggy. You cant compare the cost of REbuilding a rural line to a very low standard with the cost of building from scratch a modern motorway. How much would it cost to build a "HST1" type line? that would be a fairer comparison. (as would comparing the rail cost to building a new narrow country lane with passing places)

Transportuser09

westtip wrote: »

Here's my prediction for 2011.

Nothing will happen on the northern section of the WRC. end of prediction.

My guess is you're probably right in your prediction. I can see Tuam-Athenry happening at some stage but as for north of there...

CIE

corktina wrote: »

Good point Foggy. You cant compare the cost of REbuilding a rural line to a very low standard with the cost of building from scratch a modern motorway

I'm afraid you can. If its opponents paint same as a "waste" by comparison to building said motorway, it certainly begs the question. Furthermore, given what's possible on a traditional railway alignment, the question can only remain open.

corktina wrote: »

How much would it cost to build a "HST1" type line? that would be a fairer comparison. (as would comparing the rail cost to building a new narrow country lane with passing places)

That absolutely would not be fairer. You'll never be permitted in Ireland to attempt to drive on a motorway at the kind of speeds allowed on a high-speed railway, even if you have a car that can hit 350 km/h. On top of that, electrification doubles the capital cost of a new-build railway; this hasn't changed since electrification was introduced (which is one reason why diesel-electric traction came to be).

However, if you really want a comparison, the LGV Est cost(s)* about €9.9 million per kilometre to build. The government spent €13.8 million per kilometre to build the Ennis Bypass.

* Construction ongoing.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Possibly because it takes too long to travel the rails regardless of how cheaply the line was reopened

Average speed is the same as everything outside the "hallowed" Northern and Dublin-Cork lines. Refusal to run express service, and not running the "intercity" DMUs on an intercity route while instead running commuter DMUs that cannot reach 75 mph, are deliberate on the government's part.

mgmt wrote: »

...and carries 1/1000th of the traffic per unit length

Potential versus actual can mean anything once the government controls the whole ball of wax.

westtip

Transportuser09 wrote: »

My guess is you're probably right in your prediction. I can see Tuam-Athenry happening at some stage but as for north of there...

T09 by northern section I mean north of Athenry, it is a pure smokescreen about feasibility and costing studies - as they might say in yorkshire nowt twill be done.

Carawaystick

CIE wrote: »

Refusal to run express service, and not running the "intercity" DMUs on an intercity route while instead running commuter DMUs that cannot reach 75 mph, are deliberate on the government's part.

Have you any evidence that the govt delibrately chose the rolling stock IÉ can use on the line from Ennis to Athenry?

CIE wrote: »

Potential versus actual can mean anything once the government controls the whole ball of wax.

The people could wake up one morning and decide to take the train instead of the M18. It would only be dearer and slower than the road. It'd be very hard for the govt to change these facts.

CIE

Carawaystick wrote: »

Have you any evidence that the govt delibrately chose the rolling stock IÉ can use on the line from Ennis to Athenry?

It's the government that runs IE and provides its funding. IE is not an independent company. Its officers are government employees, and if they want to get paid, they operate the way the government tells them to. If you can draw any other conclusion, go right ahead and please be concise as well as rhetoric-free.

Carawaystick wrote: »

The people could wake up one morning and decide to take the train instead of the M18. It would only be dearer and slower than the road. It'd be very hard for the govt to change these facts.

Not if the government decided to upgrade the rolling stock and drop the fares.

I suppose it still bears mentioning (again) that the government runs and funds all the transportation modes in the country. There is nothing that is completely independent and private. That makes them responsible for whatever status quo emerges. It's self-evident.

DWCommuter

westtip wrote: »

Here's my prediction for 2011.

Nothing will happen on the northern section of the WRC. end of prediction.

:D:D:D Im here to cheer! But seriously, prepare yourself for Athenry - Tuam. It will happen. Jaysus I sound like a WOT head at this stage, which Im obviously not. (They refused to pay me the 50K I demanded to get me onside:D)

Its low cost and perfect to placate the west, even though I'd prefer the money spent elsewhere on the network. A FG transport minister will perform the opening ceremony with Enda in attendance.

North of Tuam will never, ever, ever happen at any stage. But Tuam will be reached at the expense of other areas of far greater importance.

Trust the process.;)

L1011

Carawaystick wrote: »

Have you any evidence that the govt delibrately chose the rolling stock IÉ can use on the line from Ennis to Athenry?

Of course he doesn't. The reason the WRC is using 2700 sets is down to the 22000s that rusted on the way from Korea, not any government decision.

glineli

I am told that planning for the Crusheen stop will be in before the end of the month also

westtip

DWCommuter wrote: »

:D:D:D Im here to cheer! But seriously, prepare yourself for Athenry - Tuam. It will happen. Jaysus I sound like a WOT head at this stage, which Im obviously not. (They refused to pay me the 50K I demanded to get me onside:D)

Its low cost and perfect to placate the west, even though I'd prefer the money spent elsewhere on the network. A FG transport minister will perform the opening ceremony with Enda in attendance.

North of Tuam will never, ever, ever happen at any stage. But Tuam will be reached at the expense of other areas of far greater importance.

Trust the process.;)

DW it won't happen. A WOTHEAD. Wot an interesting concept!

KevR

glineli wrote: »

I am told that planning for the Crusheen stop will be in before the end of the month also

How long does it take to get from Crusheen to Gort now with the M18? 10-12 mins?

Could they not trial a shuttle bus to Gort before they build this station? If there is enough uptake for this service then by all means build the new station; if there's poor uptake then don't build a station.

glineli

KevR wrote: »

How long does it take to get from Crusheen to Gort now with the M18? 10-12 mins?

Could they not trial a shuttle bus to Gort before they build this station? If there is enough uptake for this service then by all means build the new station; if there's poor uptake then don't build a station.

Yeah it takes roughly 10 mins or so. I dont think anyone i know in the village would go on a shuttle bus to be honest so i dont think it would be a fair reflection on how many people would use it

Victor

DWCommuter wrote: »

Its low cost and perfect to placate the west, even though I'd prefer the money spent elsewhere on the network. A FG transport minister will perform the opening ceremony with Enda in attendance.

I disagree, Enda will open Tuam-Claremorris himself.

westtip

And it will have a greenway running parallel with it all the way from Athenry to Tuam...:)

Judgement Day

And all trains will have dining cars dispensing lashings of ginger beer.

dowlingm

CIE wrote: »

Refusal to run express service, and not running the "intercity" DMUs on an intercity route while instead running commuter DMUs that cannot reach 75 mph, are deliberate on the government's part.

The speed of the 2700s is largely irrelevant, since the WRC is speed rated at I believe 60mph, and in some places like the newly replaced bridge north of Ennis a lot less than that.

CIE

dowlingm wrote: »

The speed of the 2700s is largely irrelevant, since the WRC is speed rated at I believe 60mph, and in some places like the newly replaced bridge north of Ennis a lot less than that.

Please define "rated". Does that mean deliberately set at that speed, even though it's possible to run faster? What standard are they supposed to be going by?

corktina

IMHO it is not safe to go faster on that line due to the many many bends and probably isnt practical to go faster anyway with all the pointless stops (and more to come)

highlydebased

There are places where it could go faster. However, the amount of accommodation crossings seems to be a primary issue.

DWCommuter

westtip wrote: »

DW it won't happen. A WOTHEAD. Wot an interesting concept!

Hey Westtip, maybe you and I should have a WRC duel on the Athenry - Tuam section.:D

It will be built.

Your turn.:D

serfboard

corktina wrote: »

isnt practical to go faster anyway with all the pointless stops (and more to come)

Bus Eireann's X51 service from Galway to Limerick takes 1 hour 20 minutes. The train takes 2 hours. And that's before you add in Oranmore and Crusheen.

CIE

corktina wrote: »

IMHO it is not safe to go faster on that line due to the many many bends and probably isnt practical to go faster anyway with all the pointless stops (and more to come)

I agree about the multiple stops, which ought to be based on actual demand rather than political expediency. Bends are not an issue though, especially if they are super-elevated (banked), and the only really severe bends are between Limerick and Ennis. Having all trains compete against the 51 (which takes 140 minutes from Limerick to Galway per its timetable) and none against the X51 variant is at the very least suspect.