Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

corktina

the bends are EXACTLY the issue as regards speed on this line.Go see it!

dowlingm

serfboard wrote: »

Bus Eireann's X51 service from Galway to Limerick takes 1 hour 20 minutes. The train takes 2 hours. And that's before you add in Oranmore and Crusheen.

That's why I think offpeak trains should be allowed to run semiexpress, stopping at Athenry, Gort and Ennis only (i.e. the passing tracks). If the promised Sixmilebridge loop was added then the additional timetable flexibility might make up for the time cost of a stop there.

As for the accommodation crossings and their impact on speed, this is what happens when lobby groups promise politicians railways can be reopened for peanuts (such as a certain "rail consultant" who appears in the newspapers when they have a slow day promoting various schemes in the West and Northwest). It would probably be cheaper for IE to keep an eye on bank foreclosures and progressively snap up the land on one side of the line or the other than retrofit grade separated crossings now. :rolleyes:

highlydebased

Went to visit someone in Galway today- Citylink cost me 12 euro return, 90 mins up, slightly longer on way back due to traffic. Will certainly use again for that price.

westtip

six buses a day from Citylink http://www.citylink.ie/assets/timetables/March10/Galway-CorkAirport.pdf plus the X51 BE service.

12 euro return turn up and go versus 20 euro for an extra hour on public transport (return jouney half an extra timetabled per journey) Just how are the numbers now doing on the train for "inter-city" passengers - not counting social welfare passengers.

CIE

dowlingm wrote: »

That's why I think offpeak trains should be allowed to run semiexpress, stopping at Athenry, Gort and Ennis only (i.e. the passing tracks). If the promised Sixmilebridge loop was added then the additional timetable flexibility might make up for the time cost of a stop there

There would have to be a few super-expresses during the time of greatest demand as well.

This is the same game that was being played in the 50s and 60s, with the state operator of bus and rail "competing" against itself, hobbling one mode to make another more attractive.

dowlingm wrote: »

As for the accommodation crossings and their impact on speed, this is what happens when lobby groups promise politicians railways can be reopened for peanuts (such as a certain "rail consultant" who appears in the newspapers when they have a slow day promoting various schemes in the West and Northwest). It would probably be cheaper for IE to keep an eye on bank foreclosures and progressively snap up the land on one side of the line or the other than retrofit grade separated crossings now. :rolleyes:

That's the government again. Lest anyone forget the general rule of thumb when it comes to adding road vehicles to the transportation network, it is the need to pave over at least one acre of land for every five new motorcars simply to accommodate them, and more for a HGV.

Losty Dublin

dowlingm wrote: »

That's why I think offpeak trains should be allowed to run semiexpress, stopping at Athenry, Gort and Ennis only (i.e. the passing tracks). If the promised Sixmilebridge loop was added then the additional timetable flexibility might make up for the time cost of a stop there.

The crossing loop is essential and will knock up to ten minutes off journey times as well as making for better flexibility on services. The resignalling work in Limerick is to include this crossing.

dowlingm wrote: »

As for the accommodation crossings and their impact on speed, this is what happens when lobby groups promise politicians railways can be reopened for peanuts (such as a certain "rail consultant" who appears in the newspapers when they have a slow day promoting various schemes in the West and Northwest). It would probably be cheaper for IE to keep an eye on bank foreclosures and progressively snap up the land on one side of the line or the other than retrofit grade separated crossings now. :rolleyes:

There have been almost 100 crossings (Accommodation and public road) eliminated or upgraded on the line already and more are planned; it actually made up a lot of the bill of reopening the line. Costs like these are never included in some of the guesstimates made by some ill informed "consultants" but they are essential for maximising safe running of a line.

highlydebased

westtip wrote: »

six buses a day from Citylink http://www.citylink.ie/assets/timetables/March10/Galway-CorkAirport.pdf plus the X51 BE service.

12 euro return turn up and go versus 20 euro for an extra hour on public transport (return jouney half an extra timetabled per journey) Just how are the numbers now doing on the train for "inter-city" passengers - not counting social welfare passengers.

9 51X plus 14 non-express BE so that's 28 services between BE and Citylink between Limerick and Galway. Far more convienient than the train!

glineli

Planning can be viewed on galwaycoco.ie under 101877 for the Oranmore stop

foggy_lad

"Just how are the numbers now doing on the train for "inter-city" passengers -not counting social welfare passengers."

The free travel pass holders are better getting the bus just like everyone else!

As for one acre of green fields turned to road for every five cars, and even more for trucks, have you got official figures for this as I will be truly amazed if it is proven

westtip

Losty Dublin wrote: »

There have been almost 100 crossings (Accommodation and public road) eliminated or upgraded on the line already and more are planned; it actually made up a lot of the bill of reopening the line. Costs like these are never included in some of the guesstimates made by some ill informed "consultants" but they are essential for maximising safe running of a line.

There are 290 crossings including accomodation crossings on the 47 mile stretch from Claremorris to Collooney - which is why this section (one of the reasons) it will never be re-opened.

Losty Dublin

westtip wrote: »

There are 290 crossings including accomodation crossings on the 47 mile stretch from Claremorris to Collooney - which is why this section (one of the reasons) it will never be re-opened.

I'm not arguing with you on that figure but :eek: if it's true! One of the downsides with rural lines is that when they were built, there were more landowners to deal with and more rights of way to be made, hence more accommodation crossings. Unless some massive freight or mineral flow needs to access Sligo in the future, this section of line will not reopen again. Athenry and Tuam to Claremorris has some hope as Ballina freights can be routed this way again while it could add options for accessing parts of the West and taking pressure of Westport/Galway services but it's definitely is not a money spinner by any stretch.

Oddly enough, there are no public road crossings between Athenry and Tuam which was built as a main line. Mad but true fact.

Losty Dublin

foggy_lad wrote: »

The free travel pass holders are better getting the bus just like everyone else!

How long does it take a bus to get from Limerick to Ennis or Athenry?

L1011

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Oddly enough, there are no public road crossings between Athenry and Tuam which was built as a main line. Mad but true fact.

The track also appears to be in extremely good nick for the length of time its been left unmaintained from wherever I've seen it.

If it had to be reopened I'd investigate just patching up whats there rather than a full relay that would likely get no speed benefit...

DWCommuter

MYOB wrote: »

The track also appears to be in extremely good nick for the length of time its been left unmaintained from wherever I've seen it.

If it had to be reopened I'd investigate just patching up whats there rather than a full relay that would likely get no speed benefit...

Interesting point MYOB. This section of track saw traffic until approx. 1998. However at that stage the track was already life expired. By the mid noughties it was bunched. IEs care and maintenance has made sure that any reopening will require a full relay and all the bells and whistles that go with it. Thats equals a waste of time.

Judgement Day

DWCommuter wrote: »

Interesting point MYOB. This section of track saw traffic until approx. 1998. However at that stage the track was already life expired. By the mid noughties it was bunched. IEs care and maintenance has made sure that any reopening will require a full relay and all the bells and whistles that go with it. Thats equals a waste of time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuStsFW4EmQ

Think positive = Collooney or bust!:D

DWCommuter

Judgement Day wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuStsFW4EmQ

Think positive = Collooney or bust!:D

Eh...Collooney my arse...like?:D

(unless its on a bicylcle along the Greenway.);)

foggy_lad

Losty Dublin wrote: »

How long does it take a bus to get from Limerick to Ennis or Athenry?

Ennis takes 45 minutes up to an hour depending on the stops scheduled. Athenry takes longer but it would be better for the few people from Athenry to go into Galway and get the x51 to Limerick from Athenry. And Ennis can't be counted as there was already a successful commuter service in place between Limerick and Ennis.

Victor

Losty Dublin wrote: »

I'm not arguing with you on that figure but :eek: if it's true! One of the downsides with rural lines is that when they were built, there were more landowners to deal with and more rights of way to be made, hence more accommodation crossings.

Not necessarily, quite a few lines were built to suit the local landlord, who was also a shareholder.

Of course, building a line with level crossings instead of bridges was cheaper up front, but required more staff and maintenance.

DWCommuter

So who wants the history of the Athenry - Ennis junction Railway circa 1869?????:D

westtip

DWCommuter wrote: »

Eh...Collooney my arse...like?:D

(unless its on a bicylcle along the Greenway.);)

And now looking increasgingly more likely I think we have reached the Enda of the track at Claremorris.;)

More to come.

Losty Dublin

Victor wrote: »

Not necessarily, quite a few lines were built to suit the local landlord, who was also a shareholder.

Which crossed over many small holdings, both owned by small landowner and leased from larger landlords. Either way, all the relevant lands needed access points, crossings etc.

Victor wrote: »

Of course, building a line with level crossings instead of bridges was cheaper up front, but required more staff and maintenance.

I have a theory that Baronial lines, being subvented by ratepayers monies, didn't need to worry about staff levels for additional crossings as operational losses would be made good by local Grand Jury's. Indeed, the potential to employ and house people in rural areas made lines all the more socially endearing when it came to touting lines in new areas.

westtip

Double page spread in the Sligo Weekender today:

Cycling on the Railway line plan would boost tourism. pages 10/11 of Sligo weekender.

Also report on page 32 of Sligo Champion about the adoption of Greenway on the rail line as policy for Sligo Coco in the Sligo county plan 2011 - 2017 last week - now how did that happen.

Those councillors and journos' must have all been reading this thread:D

Can't post the articles up as not on the websites and they are subscription pages - if anyone in the Sligo area wants to see it - pick a copy up The weekender article is brilliant.

The weekender article even quotes Enda Kennys support for the idea. On yer bikes lads.....

also see the Sligo Champion page 32

Teddy455

Was on the western rail corridor a few days ago from Athenry all the ways to Limerick. Had to wait in Gort for 20 minutes because of train travelling in the other direction was late arriving to the station.Was mostly empty from where i got on all the way to Ennis. At Ennis train fulled up to full capacity, with a few people standing from Sixmilebridge.

I think the place which really slows down the journey are the bends by Sixmilebridge. The train was constantly turning.

Train came to a stop crossing the bridge over the river at Ennis as some teenageers where messing on the track who didn't move for about 5 minutes and gave me the finger as i passed.

DWCommuter

westtip wrote: »

Double page spread in the Sligo Weekender today:

Cycling on the Railway line plan would boost tourism. pages 10/11 of Sligo weekender.

Also report on page 32 of Sligo Champion about the adoption of Greenway on the rail line as policy for Sligo Coco in the Sligo county plan 2011 - 2017 last week - now how did that happen.

Those councillors and journos' must have all been reading this thread:D

Can't post the articles up as not on the websites and they are subscription pages - if anyone in the Sligo area wants to see it - pick a copy up The weekender article is brilliant.

The weekender article even quotes Enda Kennys support for the idea. On yer bikes lads.....

Bang on news and its makes perfect sense. I really hope that this route is converted to a Greenway. My own feelings are that if it isn't worthy of reopening (this is most certainly not) then converting the alignment to a facility like this is the way forward. A wonderful local/national and tourist amenity that also allows you to experience the route of a former railway.

Ive done the Great Southern trail in Limerick and the route from Dungarvan towards Waterford. The only addition I'd make is more reference to the former railways. Maybe this is something, this project could consider. Not all railway enthusiasts demand track. Restored railway features and regular info points could expand the attraction of projects like these.

Judgement Day

The way things are going everything outside the Greater Dublin area will be available for conversion soon. What about the failure on the Dublin/Cork line of the 10.30 ex.Cork on 24th Jan that was still causing major disruption to all trains into and out of Heuston that evening. CIE/IE cannot run a proverbial piss-up in a brewery - bicycles for all please.

DWCommuter

Judgement Day wrote: »

The way things are going everything outside the Greater Dublin area will be available for conversion soon. What about the failure on the Dublin/Cork line of the 10.30 ex.Cork on 24th Jan that was still causing major disruption to all trains into and out of Heuston that evening. CIE/IE cannot run a proverbial piss-up in a brewery - bicycles for all please.

Take your vitriolic stance on CIE to another thread please.:D In time JD many threads will be listed here discussing the Greenways from Tipp to Limerick and Thurles to Tipp! I can't wait until somebody suggests a Greenway on the South wexford line!!!!:eek::eek:

westtip

DWCommuter wrote: »

Bang on news and its makes perfect sense. I really hope that this route is converted to a Greenway. My own feelings are that if it isn't worthy of reopening (this is most certainly not) then converting the alignment to a facility like this is the way forward. A wonderful local/national and tourist amenity that also allows you to experience the route of a former railway.

Ive done the Great Southern trail in Limerick and the route from Dungarvan towards Waterford. The only addition I'd make is more reference to the former railways. Maybe this is something, this project could consider. Not all railway enthusiasts demand track. Restored railway features and regular info points could expand the attraction of projects like these.

Thanks DW and I agree using the Railway heritage of the line - the station buildings etc is a huge opportunuity to add value to the project and provide local amenities. Why not convert the Tubercurry station to a cycle hire or the chance to use these wonderful buildings refurbed as community facilities tied into the greenway.

Sligo coco and Mayo Coco are moving forward on this on and looking to investigate the idea with their county engineers and IE. The truth is the idea whereever it came from has gathered pace and now is becoming the only show in town.

westtip

Teddy455 wrote: »

Was on the western rail corridor a few days ago from Athenry all the ways to Limerick. Had to wait in Gort for 20 minutes because of train travelling in the other direction was late arriving to the station.Was mostly empty from where i got on all the way to Ennis. At Ennis train fulled up to full capacity, with a few people standing from Sixmilebridge.

I think the place which really slows down the journey are the bends by Sixmilebridge. The train was constantly turning.

Train came to a stop crossing the bridge over the river at Ennis as some teenageers where messing on the track who didn't move for about 5 minutes and gave me the finger as i passed.

As I read this - this means Athenry to Ennis (ie the bit that was campaigned for for so long WRC phase 1 I think it was known as was empty.....mmmmmm says a lot really. This seemingly is not a corridor but a branch line from Limerick to Ennis, an empty bit in the middle and a commuter line that already existed from Athenry to Galway - is my reading correct or is it correct. Has anyone witnessed any signficant through traffic of passengers getting on in Limerick/Galway and going the whole way through on the corridor (Sorry T junction). DW I am increasingly thinking Athenry Tuam will not happen....

foggy_lad

westtip wrote: »

As I read this - this means Athenry to Ennis (ie the bit that was campaigned for for so long WRC phase 1 I think it was known as was empty.....mmmmmm says a lot really. This seemingly is not a corridor but a branch line from Limerick to Ennis, an empty bit in the middle and a commuter line that already existed from Athenry to Galway - is my reading correct or is it correct. Has anyone witnessed any signficant through traffic of passengers getting on in Limerick/Galway and going the whole way through on the corridor (Sorry T junction). DW I am increasingly thinking Athenry Tuam will not happen....

surely for most people if they live in Limerick or Galway there is nothing they would need from the other city which would neccessitate such an arduous journey on a clapped out railcar for two hours, and even if there were reasons to travel between the two cities people can do the journey faster cheaper and in more comfort on the express coach service which runs twice as often as the train at least

DWCommuter

I believe intercity rail travel in Ireland is DEAD.