Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

mgmt

Judgement Day wrote: »

As long as the IMF don't interfere with the urgently needed Burma Road section reopening I don't care.

PS I hear that Olli Rehn is NOT a cycling fan!

I was bored so...

When the European Union went on its summer holiday in late July, Commissioner Olli Rehn finally got a chance to get to his summer cottage on the shores of Puulavesi in Mikkeli. During the first week of his holiday, an unexploded bomb from the war was found in the neighbouring village, and the area was evacuated.
"I know the place where they found the bomb quite well. I had been cycling there a couple of days earlier", Rehn says.

http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Enlargement+Commissioner+Olli+Rehn+It+all+depends+on+Turkey/1101980785761

Perhaps he will cycle with Duncan?

westtip

mgmt wrote: »

I was bored so...


http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Enlargement+Commissioner+Olli+Rehn+It+all+depends+on+Turkey/1101980785761

Perhaps he will cycle with Duncan?

Perhaps he will - Anyway duncan won't get threatened by a 40 foot container on a lorry in Crusheen anymore. This whole mess may actually present the Greenway idea with an opportunity to become a reality - a low cost capital project that will actually help tourism, and as more of us take to our bikes we will need safe places to cycle. The Greenway from Newport to Mulranny has been a huge success, and bought numbers flowing into those towns, A greenway the entire length of the WRC (not just Claremorris/Collooney) could be an idea that works in these fiscal times that actually really could help the tourist economy. I certainly believe he WRC is now long fingered until we are all very old men, would anyone seriously disagree with this statement? The greens are not going to be in government to push it, there is no money and it is simply not high enough on the agenda. WOT will have no influence over the incoming government, there day is over. T21 is going to be decimated etc etc - I mean does anyone seriously think it (WRC northern branch line phase one to tuam or phase 2 to Claremorris) has any chance of going ahead? Notwithstanding any of the arguments for or against - can anyone see it happening now?

mk6705

Negative thought doesn't stop a railway project going ahead. The fact of the matter is that we'll have money again (I believe in about 20 or 30 years the same thing will happen again economically, we'll learn nothing.) and politicians in the west will be looking for ways to waste money...and this could well get built. Unfortunately I can't see into the future.

westtip

Adro947 wrote: »

Negative thought doesn't stop a railway project going ahead.

Lack of money and lack of need does.

Teddy455

Would there be enough support for a Cork-Galway service?

corktina

would you be prepared to spend about 4 hours on that journey when you could get a Citylink or BE coach quicker and cheaper via the ever improving motorway?

Teddy455

corktina wrote: »

would you be prepared to spend about 4 hours on that journey when you could get a Citylink or BE coach quicker and cheaper via the ever improving motorway?

It i would not take 4 hours!

Buses would take approx 3.5 hours.

The service would also be useful for travelling from Limerick to Cork and Galway
Which their is a lot of traffic.

corktina

takes more or less 2 hours from Limerick to Galway by WRC!

3.25 hours by citylink on most journeys city centre to centre.

CIE

Teddy455 wrote: »

It i would not take 4 hours!

Buses would take approx 3.5 hours.

The service would also be useful for travelling from Limerick to Cork and Galway
Which their is a lot of traffic.

Never mind the fact that there is no such thing as an "ever-improving motorway". Watch for spiralling costs of the motorway to lead to ever-rising tolls. Driving always gets more stressful, not less, as well.

corktina

motorways reduce stress and it will take a month of sundays for driving costs to catch rail fares up!

yes , there is a lot of traffic but it wont be long before you can drive motorway all the way from Cork to Galway...yes traffic will increase, some of it indeed will be ex-rail passengers saving money and going to where they want to go in cork or galway rather than having to find their own way from the Train Stattion!

westtip

Teddy455 wrote: »

Would there be enough support for a Cork-Galway service?

In one simple word:

No

L1011

Teddy455 wrote: »

It i would not take 4 hours!

Indeed. It'd probably take a bit more.

CIE

corktina wrote: »

motorways reduce stress and it will take a month of sundays for driving costs to catch rail fares up

As someone who has commuted on motorways for the better part of two decades, I can definitely say they cause a lot of stress.

And by "driving costs", do you just mean operating costs or the other associated costs? Wait until the total costs catch up. Auto ownership gives you gray hairs fast.

yes , there is a lot of traffic but it wont be long before you can drive motorway all the way from Cork to Galway...yes traffic will increase, some of it indeed will be ex-rail passengers saving money and going to where they want to go in cork or galway rather than having to find their own way from the Train Station

You're going to have to wait for the next bailout for that motorway to be funded. Decisions like that aren't up to Leinster House anymore.

And how can you say "ex-rail passengers" when there is no direct railway between Cork and Galway right now as it is?

L1011

CIE wrote: »

As someone who has commuted on motorways for the better part of two decades, I can definitely say they cause a lot of stress.

The M50 doesn't count as a motorway when compared to an interurban.

CIE wrote: »

And by "driving costs", do you just mean operating costs or the other associated costs? Wait until the total costs catch up. Auto ownership gives you gray hairs fast

I think corktina has owned cars for long enough to know what they cost. Unlike the frankly ludicrous shopping list of 'expenses' you gave last time you argued that Irish Rail's fares were cheaper...

corktina

CIE wrote: »

As someone who has commuted on motorways for the better part of two decades, I can definitely say they cause a lot of stress.

?

yes but less than the roads they replace..theres only the Gort to Athenry section to finish now on the Northern bit and I believe it has already been approved. The railway from Cork to Galway is as direct as it ever was and ever will be..a through service (which is what you mean I believe) will have to go to Tipperary (almost) before it goes to Limerick ,where it will have to reverse and then take nearly two hours stopping in every Hamlet to get to Athenry where it will have to reverse again.

I applaud your championing of the Railways (and Ive been a Railwayac longer than you I wager) but in terms of economic reality, this is a nohoper. You would be better directing your thoughts to how IE could improve what it does best (InterCity and Commuter services)

corktina

ps motorway via dublin under 4.5 hours according to aa routeplanner which is not fully up to date

L1011

corktina wrote: »

The railway from Cork to Galway is as direct as it ever was and ever will be..

It was a little more direct, Charleville to Patrickswell cut off the wander in to tipp' but thats gone and ain't coming back.

corktina

true I forgot what must have been a high-speed altenative....:D

invinciblePRSTV

In the bubble times, the idea of linking Cork-Limerick-Galway in a proper intercity service with the WRC money would have made some sense. But this was never WOTs intention, its aim was(is) to link by rail the rural towns of Connaught, to hell with anything else. Suggesting now that the current WRC could now be linked to Cork is a pointless afterthought, the money has been pissed against the wall and the AC and IMF will kill the WRC.

Cookie_Monster

:pac::pac::pac:

westtip

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

In the bubble times, the idea of linking Cork-Limerick-Galway in a proper intercity service with the WRC money would have made some sense. But this was never WOTs intention, its aim was(is) to link by rail the rural towns of Connaught, to hell with anything else. Suggesting now that the current WRC could now be linked to Cork is a pointless afterthought, the money has been pissed against the wall and the AC and IMF will kill the WRC.

+1 and not even I wanted to see it killed off in this way.

CIE

corktina wrote: »

yes but less than the roads they replace..theres only the Gort to Athenry section to finish now on the Northern bit and I believe it has already been approved. The railway from Cork to Galway is as direct as it ever was and ever will be..a through service (which is what you mean I believe) will have to go to Tipperary (almost) before it goes to Limerick ,where it will have to reverse and then take nearly two hours stopping in every Hamlet to get to Athenry where it will have to reverse again.

I applaud your championing of the Railways (and Ive been a Railwayac longer than you I wager) but in terms of economic reality, this is a nohoper. You would be better directing your thoughts to how IE could improve what it does best (InterCity and Commuter services)

You're in for a rude awakening when it comes to the motorway. They do not improve the "roads they replace" as much as you claim. All you've done is create a wider "car park". If I ride the train, I don't have to smell everyone else's exhaust for several miles on either side of me.

Furthermore, anywhere you stick a motorway, there is also demand for a parallel railway service, perfectly evidenced by the bare fact that you're building a motorway between those points. No demand, no need to "replace" the roads as you put it.

We all know how IE can improve intercity rail; and that's to speed it up as well as offer more destinations. But the politicians that control IE like to pretend that the technology is not there, while building the motorways to sate the demand that they claim is not there either. Is there a single soul that disagrees that e.g. Dublin-Cork should have been at a top speed of at least 125 mph (and an average speed either in or approaching triple digits) decades ago? and the same for the Enterprise service? Instead of getting something like a Class 221 though (Ireland is way overdue for a tilting train), we get stuck with no-name Rotem "Intercity DMUs" that can't tilt and are limited to 100 mph. And if IE remains reticent to do railfreight (a profitable venture; stop relying on government propaganda to somehow convince you it isn't), then let private companies in to show them how to do it.

And one last thing: With all due respect, how come a self-professed "railwayac" seems to be more of a roads advocate and either acts or genuinely is completely oblivious to rail's advantages? (Then again, a "railwayac" who is unaware of the actual speed capabilities of steam engines has to make up a new term to describe oneself...)

corktina

did you not see the schedule I put up for a special speed attempt by the fastest train in the world in 1932 where the top speed was 91mph? OK so the LMSR and particularly the LNER went a little faster, in the few years before WW2 ,than the Cheltenham "flyer" but that was it.The normal running speed of a steam train did not come near to 100 mph.

I challenge you, no more rhetoric, show us a freight flow that might be economic that is not being taken advantage of.

Oh and Id rather smell exhaust fumes than the guy next to me thanks.

btw...i didnt invent railwayac...the railway magazine did "The study of railways, or a general interest in them as a hobby, is sometimes known as ferroequinology (literally, "study of iron horses"). The term is rarely used by non-railfans. The Railway Magazine attempted to popularise the term railwayac without success in the early 20th century"

ClovenHoof

CIE wrote: »

And one last thing: With all due respect, how come a self-professed "railwayac" seems to be more of a roads advocate

I don't get your point with this comment. That's like saying a person who says eggs are great shouldn't be promoting cheese in diets.

schemingbohemia

well we won't be seeing phases 2 or 3 any time soon see here

http://www.transport.ie/pressRelease.aspx?Id=257

What is the position on the Western Rail Corridor?
Phase 1 of the Western Rail Corridor opened this year. While there will be some initial planning and design for Phase 2, further progress will be dependent on a review of the performance of Phase 1 and a full economic assessment of Phase 2.

corktina

ClovenHoof wrote: »

I don't get your point with this comment. That's like saying a person who says eggs are great shouldn't be promoting cheese in diets.

(the answer is economic reality of course)

highlydebased

CIE wrote: »

". If I ride the train, I don't have to smell everyone else's exhaust for several miles on either side of me.

Yes, but you'll be smelling the putrid fumes off the 2700 as it mosies on up to Athenry instead!

westtip

schemingbohemia wrote: »

well we won't be seeing phases 2 or 3 any time soon see here

http://www.transport.ie/pressRelease.aspx?Id=257

What is the position on the Western Rail Corridor?
Phase 1 of the Western Rail Corridor opened this year. While there will be some initial planning and design for Phase 2, further progress will be dependent on a review of the performance of Phase 1 and a full economic assessment of Phase 2.

almost verbatim what Dempsey said in May 2009 at the last WOT conference in Claremorris, and what he said when he opened phase 1 earlier this year - use it or lose it. His speech is here: http://www.noeldempsey.ie/index.php/national-speech/speech-by-minister-noel-dempsey-at-west-on-track-bi-annual-conference this is what he said:

.

In September 2006 we in Government made a decision in principle to support funding for the development of Phase 2 of the Corridor between Athenry and Tuam. This approval is subject to completion by Iarnród Éireann of a fuller appraisal of this section. Iarnród Éireann is planning to conduct further studies in 2009 to ascertain more reliable costings for Phases 2 and 3. I understand that they will also be looking at usage of Phase 1 after its opening, and at its effect on overall patronage of public transport in the area. The timescales for the delivery of Phases 2 and 3 are under review in the light of the capital allocation available to the Department of Transport..

then when it opened in March 2010 he said this

..

As you know this is only the first phase of reopening the entire Western Rail Corridor. The next step will be for Iarnród Éireann to undertake a detailed evaluation of Phases 2 and 3 with a view to arriving at precise costs to undertake the works. I know there have been calls for work on these phases to commence immediately. However, we all have to face the reality that the current funding environment is very difficult and it will not be possible to progress all the projects in Transport 21 in accordance with the ambitious timescale envisioned at its launch. ..

The annoying thing is they never intended doing phase 2 or 3 its just politicking to keep it on the back burner - to keep WOT happy and kid hem into thinking it will happen. In the meantime the greenway could have been built and generating wealth in tourism revenues ....:D the haven't got the bloody courage to say even now - ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!

BTW in the same press release TODAY NOVEMBE 24TH quoted above - a bit further down the page there is this not insignificant statement:

.

Two PPP projects will also start in 2011 - the M17/18 Gort – Tuam PPP and M11/Newlands Cross PPP bypasses. .

SO WHAT CHANCE THE WRC NORTHERN BRANCH LINE NOW!!!!!

ClovenHoof

westtip wrote: »

. SO WHAT CHANCE THE WRC NORTHERN BRANCH LINE NOW!!!!!

Considering this is Ireland I would reckon 100%. Tragically.

westtip

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Considering this is Ireland I would reckon 100%. Tragically.

cloven its so good to see you back, I guess the Ginger Beer on the Burma Road with JD, or even long forgetten friends like Nosty is not going to happen.