Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

westtip

By all accounts the department of transport received hundreds of submissions on the greenway strategy, submissions closed on Friday July 14th. No guarentee we will be listened too, and I have no doubt the WOTTIES will have made submissions saying a greenway would be the deathknell to the Western Rail Corridor although I think that bell has well and truly tolled already, but they have an unCanney (sic) way of wielding their influence. We are getting there and we will cross the line so thanks to everyone who made a submission,but we still need to be aware of the likes of anti greenway TDs like Sean Canney who is opposed to the greenway tourism jobs that would be created by the Western Rail Trail.

Still someway to go!

eastwest

westtip wrote: »

By all accounts the department of transport received hundreds of submissions on the greenway strategy, submissions closed on Friday July 14th. No guarentee we will be listened too, and I have no doubt the WOTTIES will have made submissions saying a greenway would be the deathknell to the Western Rail Corridor although I think that bell has well and truly tolled already, but they have an unCanney (sic) way of wielding their influence. We are getting there and we will cross the line so thanks to everyone who made a submission,but we still need to be aware of the likes of anti greenway TDs like Sean Canney who is opposed to the greenway tourism jobs that would be created by the Western Rail Trail.

Still someway to go!

To be fair to Canney, I think he understands that the railway dream is over, but he is commendably loyal to his friends in the little railway lobby.
Going by the slant of a story in the local papers a week or so back, he seems to be anxious to support his constituents too, but clearly his is somewhat compromised by his association with wot. He'll come around though, if he doesn't want to sink without trace on the next election; Tuam has suddenly become key for him given the boundary changes, and nobody who opposes the greenway in Tuam has a chance of getting votes in the town.
At the end of the day he's a politician, and he probably knows he'll have to throw his train mates over the side, or go back to civvy Street.

westtip

eastwest wrote: »

To be fair to Canney, I think he understands that the railway dream is over, but he is commendably loyal to his friends in the little railway lobby.
Going by the slant of a story in the local papers a week or so back, he seems to be anxious to support his constituents too, but clearly his is somewhat compromised by his association with wot. He'll come around though, if he doesn't want to sink without trace on the next election; Tuam has suddenly become key for him given the boundary changes, and nobody who opposes the greenway in Tuam has a chance of getting votes in the town.
At the end of the day he's a politician, and he probably knows he'll have to throw his train mates over the side, or go back to civvy Street.

It would be such a pity to see him go:D But yes I reckon he has underestimated the depth of feeling now in Tuam, and the greenway may turn out to be his Achilles heel, I think he has been labelled as the anti greenway TD in that neck of the woods and his known anti greenway on the railway route stance might be a weakness his political opponents will exploit....As if politicians would focus on an opponents weakness.

marno21

It would be very useful for him if he could get the opening of the (now completed) Tuam bypass and shortly M17 open.

Think of the ribbon cutting and photo ops!

eastwest

marno21 wrote: »

It would be very useful for him if he could get the opening of the (now completed) Tuam bypass and shortly M17 open.

Think of the ribbon cutting and photo ops!

The irony of course being that the motorway is the final nail in the railway coffin!

eastwest

marno21 wrote: »

It would be very useful for him if he could get the opening of the (now completed) Tuam bypass and shortly M17 open.

Think of the ribbon cutting and photo ops!

The irony of course being that the motorway is the final nail in the railway coffin!

westtip

eastwest wrote: »

The irony of course being that the motorway is the final nail in the railway coffin!

Yes it would make a great speech for Canney, to open the motorway and on the same day make a pronouncement that he is now backing the tuam greenway group, just in time for the election!

westtip

Does anyone recall the Rail consultation process, the National Transport Authority asked for submissions from the public on the role of rail in Ireland. The closing date for submissions was January 17th, almost six months to the day ago. As yet there is no sign of this report coming out, which btw will probably be another woolly document wrapped up in vague promises and ideas; the point is this, the public are asked to engage, they make submissions and then seemingly absolutely nothing happens....What on earth are they doing in the NTA?

eastwest

westtip wrote: »

eastwest wrote: »

The irony of course being that the motorway is the final nail in the railway coffin!

Yes it would make a great speech for Canney, to open the motorway and on the same day make a pronouncement that he is now backing the tuam greenway group, just in time for the election!

Ciaran cannon will get top billing that day, along with varadkar and Ross.

GM228

westtip wrote: »

Does anyone recall the Rail consultation process, the National Transport Authority asked for submissions from the public on the role of rail in Ireland. The closing date for submissions was January 17th, almost six months to the day ago. As yet there is no sign of this report coming out, which btw will probably be another woolly document wrapped up in vague promises and ideas; the point is this, the public are asked to engage, they make submissions and then seemingly absolutely nothing happens....What on earth are they doing in the NTA?

The NTA had 4 different 2016 consultations, none of these reports have yet been published.

They can take several months/years to publish, in fact I'm still awaiting the report on the 2015 consultation for the Draft Transport Strategy 2016-2035 for the Greater Dublin Area, if you think that's bad they have yet to publish their very first public consultation report from 2010 on bus licensing or in fact most of their consultations to date- no rush eh.

Complete a FOI application for the most recent draft

GM228

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Complete a FOI application for the most recent draft

It's possible that they don't even have a draft, in any case they may refuse to release it as consultations are exempted from FOI.

Muckyboots

Greenways on minor roads - "the solution". https://www.facebook.com/galwaycyclingsolutions.ie/photos/a.1923046154620017.1073741829.1839489779642322/1924814277776538/?type=3&theater

Del.Monte

Muckyboots wrote: »

Greenways on minor roads - "the solution". https://www.facebook.com/galwaycyclingsolutions.ie/photos/a.1923046154620017.1073741829.1839489779642322/1924814277776538/?type=3&theater

I like it, the West is inundated with boreens that could be closed to normal road traffic and reduced to Greenway status.

Muckyboots

Del.Monte wrote: »

Muckyboots wrote: »

Greenways on minor roads - "the solution". https://www.facebook.com/galwaycyclingsolutions.ie/photos/a.1923046154620017.1073741829.1839489779642322/1924814277776538/?type=3&theater

I like it, the West is inundated with boreens that could be closed to normal road traffic and reduced to Greenway status.

All you need to do now is find some "disused sections" of Irish roads and you have a campaign on your hands. The runway at Galway Airport will give you a start.

Given that group represents East Galway Landowners and other anti greenway folks, it's a little difficult to swallow what they are serving.

Sorry, but no way will families go for cycles on minor roads where traffic is. If that was a realistic solution, you would see it being done right now.

As for closing roads for use as greenways, have you seen our countryside? There's a house down every road which means you would be blocking access.

These lads just don't want a greenway that might cut through their land. Motorway, no problem, realignment of roads, no problem, greenway, no way.

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry, but no way will families go for cycles on minor roads where traffic is.

i'm sorry, but if that turns out to be the only solution availible, then so be it, they will have to go for it or leave it.

Deleted User wrote: »

These lads just don't want a greenway that might cut through their land. Motorway, no problem, realignment of roads, no problem, greenway, no way.

well that is fair enough. they have their reasons and those reasons need to be taken on board.

westtip

end of the road wrote: »

i'm sorry, but if that turns out to be the only solution availible, then so be it, they will have to go for it or leave it.



well that is fair enough. they have their reasons and those reasons need to be taken on board.

It will all come down to compensation levels. There is a solution for west of Athlone on the Dublin-Galway greenway, already suggested to DTTAS, that is parallel with the railway, might need some CPO at pinch points but the argument it "cuts through my land/farm" is meaningless - what does the railway do? This would be a traffic free route that brings the greenway into the heart of towns along the route. Parallel greenways happen all over the world but of course I am forgetting this is Ireland and as per usual we are different. A passing train every now and again is not going to put cyclists off.

westtip

Irish Times today on the strategising and consultation.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/the-obligatory-public-consultation-process-1.3159218

Muckyboots

westtip wrote: »

Irish Times today on the strategising and consultation.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/the-obligatory-public-consultation-process-1.3159218

Public; " Minister, any chance of some joined up thinking around railways, greenways. tourism and regional development ?"
Minister; " Sure. Just run over there and kick that can as hard as you can for me."
Public; "Great. We all have a great sense of importance and national progress".
Minister; "Eh, sorry. I have completely forgotten who you are or what you are talking about. Must rush, off to a summer school in Donegal to do some back slapping and mingle with the great and good. Now, which socks will I wear? Where's my bloody advisor?

JCX BXC

westtip wrote: »

It will all come down to compensation levels. There is a solution for west of Athlone on the Dublin-Galway greenway, already suggested to DTTAS, that is parallel with the railway, might need some CPO at pinch points but the argument it "cuts through my land/farm" is meaningless - what does the railway do? This would be a traffic free route that brings the greenway into the heart of towns along the route. Parallel greenways happen all over the world but of course I am forgetting this is Ireland and as per usual we are different. A passing train every now and again is not going to put cyclists off.

I think it would be a pity not to turn Galway to Athenry into a double lane track, and instead a Greenway.

Before building anymore railways, really there should be talk of double tracking Galway to Athenry, Athlone to Portarlington and Limerick to Limerick Junction.

westtip

JCX BXC wrote: »

I think it would be a pity not to turn Galway to Athenry into a double lane track, and instead a Greenway.

Before building anymore railways, really there should be talk of double tracking Galway to Athenry, Athlone to Portarlington and Limerick to Limerick Junction.

Actually I don't disagree with you and have long since argued this is what the rail lobby for the west should have campaigned for, mentioned in several posts already. Double tracking (or at least significant number of passing loops) plus a greenway would be feasible, but as the liklihood of double tracking investment is highly unlikely why not put a greenway alongside the existing rail corridor, in fact widen the corridor to have a greenway now and double tracking in the future, this would require CPOs but as mentioned the argument about cutting farms in half would be irrelevant. Have a read of this discussion document I sent to the department back in 2011, the arguments hold true (IMO) today six years later.

Corca Baiscinn

westtip wrote: »

Irish Times today on the strategising and consultation.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/the-obligatory-public-consultation-process-1.3159218

Yes, read that too but now I see that action number 63 in the Climate Plan is "Publish the Greenway Strategy" and the date given is 2017! So, either there's a brand new dawn or they have their strategy ready to go and the consultation was a fig-leaf! Time will tell!

Muckyboots

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/Debates%20Authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/takes/seanad2017072000002#N13
Minster Ross speaking in the Seanad yesterday
"I thank Senator Craughwell for bringing this matter to the House and giving me an opportunity to address same. I know that he is, as I am, a great believer in both the railways and greenways. He has been a champion of both but this problem sometimes leaves people in a quandary. If there is a conflict between railways and greenways, one feels it is a great pity because greenways have been a great success. He has been a great supporter of them but they do not always have to be done at the cost of a railway or otherwise. Obviously one can be in favour of both of them. They are very important parts of my Department and what I do. I fully support greenways and also railways, where they are appropriate.
The future of western rail corridor, including the Athenry-Claremorris line, has been the subject of much debate over the years. There are many differing views on it, including among people who live in the localities that the line runs through. Certainly there seems to be strong support among some people for reopening all or part of the line. There are also many who support the redevelopment of sections of the line as a greenway. My Department has received robust submissions from both groups. While I have no objection to the proposal by some groups to create a greenway along the disused railway line, it is ultimately a matter for the relevant local authority to progress and submit, if funding is required, a proposal for consideration to my Department.
I will briefly give a little background on what has happened to date in terms of the redevelopment of the western rail corridor. In 2006, there was a lot of capital funding available for infrastructure projects. The Government at the time approved funding of €106 million for phase 1 of the western rail corridor under the Transport 21 programme. This investment allowed for the reopening of the 36 mile stretch of railway line between Ennis and Athenry. The line was opened to the public in March 2010.
Originally it was envisaged that phase 2 of the project, the development of the line from Athenry to Tuam, would be completed in 2011. However, following the economic crisis, the proposal was shelved indefinitely in common with many other infrastructure projects at the time. Senators will be aware that the programme for Government includes a commitment to provide for an independent costing and review of a proposal to extend the western rail corridor by linking Athenry and Claremorris. It also commits that no measures will be taken to prevent the future reactivation of this corridor for rail use.
One of the actions contained in my Department's 2015 strategic investment framework for land transport was the development of a new rail policy to address the future role of rail in Ireland. The National Transport Authority subsequently launched a public consultation last November with the publication of the rail review report that examined the funding required to support the heavy rail network now and into the future, together with a consultation document. The analysis carried out in the rail review report predates the finalisation of the national planning framework that is being developed under the leadership of my colleague, the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government. Once agreed by Government, the approach that the framework adopts towards land use planning and settlement patterns for the country will have a significant impact on the role of rail and other important contexts for consideration of issues raised by the rail review report and any recommendations that I will bring to Government in this regard. No decisions on future changes to the rail network, including decisions on the western rail corridor, will be made until this process is completed.
Again, I thank Senator Craughwell for raising this matter. I know it is very important to many people who live in the area and public representatives who represent the area. I hope my comments have clarified things."

westtip

Muckyboots wrote: »

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/Debates%20Authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/takes/seanad2017072000002#N13
Minster Ross speaking in the Seanad yesterday
". I hope my comments have clarified things."

Yep. That nothing will happen; so no one will get the blame. but hey I thought the western rail corridor wasn't up for discussion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7G_Zd47HRc

The most concerning thing about the Ross cop out is his reference to county councils:

While I have no objection to the proposal by some groups to create a greenway along the disused railway line, it is ultimately a matter for the relevant local authority to progress and submit, if funding is required, a proposal for consideration to my Department.

Alan Kelly, then a junior minister responsible for sustainable transport working under Leo Varadkar, advised me and another campaigner in his office back in 2012 you have to get the councils on board, which is why so much effort was made to bring Sligo coco on board, the efforts in Galway are sterling valiant and praiseworthy and hopefully Galway CC will also come on board, leaving Mayo to dig it's heels in for the 30 or so miles of the Western Rail Trail that run through that county. But this should never have been the case, the national cycle network/greenway network needs to be planned centrally, the landbank available for greenways needs to be managed centrally and viewed as a national resource/asset not a local issue, of course to work with councils but, leaving the structure and shape of the greenway network upto the whims of councils is slowing this whole process down to build a connected network; having said all that, at this stage I am increasingly confident, the Western Rail Trail will happen, the fact it is being actively debated in a national government chamber is a huge issue, when you consider the comment by Gerry "not up for discussion" Murray of Sinn Fein/West on Track a few years ago, the matter clearly is "up for discussion" it is clearly on the agenda, the greenway movement has made monumental leaps forward, but as yet no-one is enjoying this wasted asset as it should be, and it seems the influence and pressure being put on Shane Ross as Transport Minister is continuing to make sure the can will continue to be kicked down the road. All Ross can do now is slow it down. For the time being the greenway movement has to play the game and bring the councils on board, it has succeeded in Sligo and is moving forward in Galway, In Mayo WOT are so entrenched in the council management, where unelected officials are acting to stop the greenway, will only come on board, dragging and kicking their heels. What a pity this great opportunity has yet to be fully embraced, what a wasted opportunity for the past ten years, but it will happen, of that I am now confident.

eastwest

Interesting to see Michael Martin coming out in support of the greenway option on the wrc. Has he had a peek at the pending rail review?

http://www.tuamherald.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/07/26/4143516-greenway-boost-as-ff-leader-doesnt-foresee-return-of-railway/

Grandeeod

eastwest wrote: »

Interesting to see Michael Martin coming out in support of the greenway option on the wrc. Has he had a peek at the pending rail review?
http://www.tuamherald.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/07/26/4143516-greenway-boost-as-ff-leader-doesnt-foresee-return-of-railway/

Maybe he has. However if he gets into Government as Taoiseach, his tune will change fairly lively if staying in power depends on it.

I'm shocked at the level of naievity towards politicians. I refuse to believe anything until there's tarmac and bikes running along that tarmac.

Del.Monte

Grandeeod wrote: »

Maybe he has. However if he gets into Government as Taoiseach, his tune will change fairly lively if staying in power depends on it.

I'm shocked at the level of naievity towards politicians. I refuse to believe anything until there's tarmac and bikes running along that tarmac.

Collooney or bust - velorail the only way to go.

Del.Monte

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Muckyboots

eastwest wrote: »

Interesting to see Michael Martin coming out in support of the greenway option on the wrc. Has he had a peek at the pending rail review?
http://www.tuamherald.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/07/26/4143516-greenway-boost-as-ff-leader-doesnt-foresee-return-of-railway/

There is now zero party political support for WOT.