Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

westtip

end of the road wrote: »

the thing is, those using rail don't want busses. if they did then they would use the existing bus services. the rail lines aren't the reason that extra busses don't operate in the region, people not wanting such services is the most likely reason.

For once and for all can some of ye grasp a simple fact. Can you imagine if a proposal is sent for European funding from the Department of transport along the lines of there are folk in Claremorris who simply don't like buses and they want a railway from Claremorris to Athenry so they can have their cheese sandwiches in peace on a train with their flask of coffee whilst travelling on a senior citizen rail pass. Please do try and get a grip, The nice to have argument is not an argument it is a fanciful desire. Public sector infrastructure investment is not spent on projects to fulfill fanciful desires, it is spent on projects that are needed. After years of backward forward discussions on this thread and it's predecessor there are people out there who simply don't get it. This railway is not going to be built. It is no longer a railway. It is in fact a dead parrot.

eastwest

westtip wrote: »

For once and for all can some of ye grasp a simple fact. Can you imagine if a proposal is sent for European funding from the Department of transport along the lines of there are folk in Claremorris who simply don't like buses and they want a railway from Claremorris to Athenry so they can have their cheese sandwiches in peace on a train with their flask of coffee whilst travelling on a senior citizen rail pass. Please do try and get a grip, The nice to have argument is not an argument it is a fanciful desire. Public sector infrastructure investment is not spent on projects to fulfill fanciful desires, it is spent on projects that are needed. After years of backward forward discussions on this thread and it's predecessor there are people out there who simply don't get it. This railway is not going to be built. It is no longer a railway. It is in fact a dead parrot.

But there is another argument for a railway that you're forgetting about. 'They have the DART in Dublin' is a really sound economic argument that they could take to Brussels to support the reopening of claremorris athenry.

Grandeeod

Honestly, this thread is starting to sound like a bloody episode of Steptoe & Son.

The constant Greenway push, followed by yet another overstated "Dublin argument". (and from the same side) It's like Dad Steptoe constantly berating Harold or A'rold (whichever way you want it).

The WRC will die a death regardless of a Greenway or anti Dublin diatribe repeated by a pro Dublin agenda.

eastwest

Grandeeod wrote: »

Honestly, this thread is starting to sound like a bloody episode of Steptoe & Son.

The constant Greenway push, followed by yet another overstated "Dublin argument". (and from the same side) It's like Dad Steptoe constantly berating Harold or A'rold (whichever way you want it).
The WRC will die a death regardless of a Greenway or anti Dublin diatribe repeated by a pro Dublin agenda.

But they have the Luas as well. Why can't we have the Luas?

bagels

eastwest wrote: »

But they have the Luas as well. Why can't we have the Luas?

Isn't it obvious?
The Luas is for people who wear shoes. We in the West only wear boots or wellingtons, that's why.

westtip

Ah well tis all good fun, in the meantime they are all gradually coming on board (and not for a choo choo), After much lobbying by the Tuam Greenway Group Sligo Mayo greenway campaign and the Western Rail Trail Campaign tis good to see Ciaron Cannon finally making his views public and coming out in support of the greenway:

http://connachttribune.ie/greenway-lobby-gets-right-back-to-business-676/

This is important with Anne Rabbitte of FF in Galway East also supporting the greenway (she voted in favour of a feasibility study for a greenway on Galway Coco last year), it means two out of three of the TDs in Galway East now openly support the greenway, all four TDs in Sligo/Leitrim support the greenway. Sean Canney the independent is against the Western Rail Trail, he thinks if a greenway is put on the line there will never be a railway; he is of course right about one thing, there will never a railway on this line again.

In Mayo we have a conspiracy of silence...

Ste.phen

You know, there could be a greenway in place by now if they'd started building it a few pages back into this thread

Ste.phen

Ste.phen wrote: »

You know, there could be a greenway in place by now if they'd started building it a few pages back into this thread

I suspect that this thread has had more traffic than the greenway or even the railway could ever hope for. :pac:
587,387 since 2009

eastwest

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I suspect that this thread has had more traffic than the greenway or even the railway could ever hope for. :pac:
587,387 since 2009

My garden path has more traffic than the railway could ever hope for.

Ste.phen

Deleted User wrote: »

I suspect that this thread has had more traffic than the greenway or even the railway could ever hope for. :pac:
587,387 since 2009

Yeah, but the first few posts didn't really mention the Greenway idea and I was too lazy to find out where in the many pages it was first mentioned

westtip

Ste.phen wrote: »

Yeah, but the first few posts didn't really mention the Greenway idea and I was too lazy to find out where in the many pages it was first mentioned

I said this on the 19th July 2006 - I don't think anyone can accuse me of not been consistent, but this the earliest reference I can find to a greenway on the line been mentioned on any of the Western Rail Corridor Threads

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=51754270&postcount=1019

I really don't know the answer to that question - my gut feeling says the line will be a white elephant and can't really be justified - turn it into a long distance footpath would be my mantra.

galwaycyclist

Waterford soon ready

http://irishcycle.com/2016/04/04/preview-the-45km-waterford-greenway/

What might have been - if we had made better choices at the ballot box in Galway

eastwest

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Waterford soon ready

http://irishcycle.com/2016/04/04/preview-the-45km-waterford-greenway/

What might have been - if we had made better choices at the ballot box in Galway

It's quite a legacy for a politician. 'I managed to stop investment in jobs and amenities in Galway and Mayo'.

BoatMad

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Waterford soon ready

http://irishcycle.com/2016/04/04/preview-the-45km-waterford-greenway/

What might have been - if we had made better choices at the ballot box in Galway

as someone who remembers it as a working railway , its both interesting and sad

Grandeeod

BoatMad wrote: »

as someone who remembers it as a working railway , its both interesting and sad

Interesting, yes. Sad, no. A happy time? I think so.

I remember it as a working railway in the final year of the Ballinacourty days. It lay derelict with track for many years. Even after the track was removed a lot of the railway infrastructure remained. The WSVR enabled many to actually traverse part of the route and experience what it was like. Now the Greenway has really brought this former rail line back from dereliction, further encroachment and ultimate destruction.

Any rail enthusiast should be delighted that its memory and route has been preserved. Cyclists and walkers should be delighted at what will be a magnificent amenity.

BoatMad

Grandeeod wrote: »

Interesting, yes. Sad, no. A happy time? I think so.

I remember it as a working railway in the final year of the Ballinacourty days. It lay derelict with track for many years. Even after the track was removed a lot of the railway infrastructure remained. The WSVR enabled many to actually traverse part of the route and experience what it was like. Now the Greenway has really brought this former rail line back from dereliction, further encroachment and ultimate destruction.

Any rail enthusiast should be delighted that its memory and route has been preserved. Cyclists and walkers should be delighted at what will be a magnificent amenity.

railways are much more just track through the country side and cute views.

so yes its interesting to see the trackbed retained, but sad to see the compete demise of one of the key UK irish tail links , that was responsible for the development of tourism in Kerry.

progress yes, of a sort. I will revisit this greenway to remember the places I walked as a kid and the train trips I took in the engines on the way to ballinacourty

Grandeeod

BoatMad wrote: »

railways are much more just track through the country side and cute views.

Maybe they USED to be much more in a different era and context.

but sad to see the compete demise of one of the key UK irish tail links , that was responsible for the development of tourism in Kerry.

Once again. A different era and things have moved on. I understand you, but in all honesty this is a de facto "preservation" of the line in a different way.

progress yes, of a sort. I will revisit this greenway to remember the places I walked as a kid and the train trips I took in the engines on the way to ballinacourty

It is progress, of a sort. I hope you visit and embrace the fact that this route could have been destroyed in an ad hoc manner and made even more inaccessible. Those behind this Greenway should be very proud and I hope rail enthusiasts who never witnessed the line in operation, pay a visit.

eastwest

BoatMad wrote: »

as someone who remembers it as a working railway , its both interesting and sad

For me, there's nothing sad about a strip of public land being kept in public ownership as well as providing jobs and amenities. There's nothing sad about people being able to see where the transport technology of the nineteenth century was built, or for railway enthusiasts to be able to walk or cycle a historic route.
What would be sad, for me, would be the loss of the asset to private hands, a bit at a time, same as is happening elsewhere.

serfboard

BoatMad wrote: »

I will revisit this greenway to remember the places I walked as a kid and the train trips I took in the engines on the way to ballinacourty

And thankfully because it has been preserved as a Greenway you will easily be able to revisit it.

Unfortunately you cannot currently do the same along the abandoned WRC.

BoatMad

serfboard wrote: »

And thankfully because it has been preserved as a Greenway you will easily be able to revisit it.

Unfortunately you cannot currently do the same along the abandoned WRC.

True, but that is not an argument for a greenway , its as much an argument for a railway

eastwest

BoatMad wrote: »

True, but that is not an argument for a greenway , its as much an argument for a railway

That's stretching logic a bit, surely?

hytrogen

eastwest wrote:

That's stretching logic a bit, surely?

You can't charge people for walking on grass, you can for travelling by mechanised means.

Grandeeod

hytrogen wrote: »

You can't charge people for walking on grass, you can for travelling by mechanised means.

Grass doesn't cost a lot to maintain.

Muckyboots

hytrogen wrote: »

You can't charge people for walking on grass, you can for travelling by mechanised means.

Wrong. There is a toll bridge on the Greenway on the Welch Mawddach Trail with "beautiful railway walks". Nobody bats an eye at handing over a quid with each pass. Helps with the upkeep of the trail - over a dozen direct jobs
. Keeps hundreds more employed in pubs, campsites and restaurants in the area.
http://www.mawddachtrail.co.uk/mawddach-trail.html

westtip

BoatMad wrote: »

True, but that is not an argument for a greenway , its as much an argument for a railway

Please do expand, because of late I have not heard the latest economic, social, demographic or even environmental argument for the WRC. I am of course familiar with all the logical arguments for a greenway so instead of a statement like that you have made, let's actually here your argument. Just because it used to be a railway 40 years ago is hardly a reason to re-open it so let's hear your argument again.

westtip

hytrogen wrote: »

You can't charge people for walking on grass, you can for travelling by mechanised means.

The tourists using the free facility pay for using it, by renting bikes, drinking pints, sleeping in hotels, eating in restaurants, shopping in local shops, using petrol to get here. Most of these items attract VAT, therefore not only is their a huge contribution to the local economies in the tourism and retail service jobs created, there is also a kick back to the exchequer. It's called Economic activity. The paying guests on a line such as (for example) Ennis Athenry are subvented for each journey for anything from €70 per journey to €90 per journey depending on whose passenger numbers you use. That is not contributing to the economy of the West of Ireland. You don't build railways with that level of subvention in mind, now, yes there has to be subvention of public transport but at a realistic level. So please do expand, are proposing a realistic economic fare structure on the WRC so that subvention is only say €20 per passenger, making the fare from for example Claremorris to Athenry about €100.......Mmmmmmm that will work!

eastwest

hytrogen wrote: »

You can't charge people for walking on grass, you can for travelling by mechanised means.

We're definitely not charging for the use of the first section of the WRC; we're giving a subsidy of €84 to each user along with the capital cost. If that is 'charging' then we need to rewrite all economic theory and convert our national debt into a realisable asset.
Tourists, especially those on foot or on bikes, have to spend money locally, so unlike the heavily subsidised rail passengers, they contribute in a real way to local economies.
As Waterford is beginning to realise.

schemingbohemia

Sad to report it seems the WRC is being discussed with the Independent grouping!!

The unnamed TD had a wish list that Fine Gael would have to consider very seriously if he were to lend his support. He wanted a motorway and a railway line between Cork and Letterkenny.

From here
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/miriam-lord-enda-and-miche%C3%A1l-keep-masks-on-as-face-off-looms-1.2601049

eastwest

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Sad to report it seems the WRC is being discussed with the Independent grouping!!

The unnamed TD had a wish list that Fine Gael would have to consider very seriously if he were to lend his support. He wanted a motorway and a railway line between Cork and Letterkenny.

From here
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/miriam-lord-enda-and-miche%C3%A1l-keep-masks-on-as-face-off-looms-1.2601049

It's just another way of saying 'There's no way I'm going into government, when I can protect my vote by waffling from opposition.' He might as well have demanded the nationalisation of Dell.

westtip

Press release From: The Western Rail Trail campaign
Date: April 7th 2016: FOR IMMEDIATE USE
• Western Rail Trail Campaign welcomes commitment to implementation of 2014 CEDRA Report in “discussion document for Government”
• Greenway an ideal route for broadband rollout on Atlantic Economic corridor to rural towns in the west.
• Majority of TDs in Sligo/Leitrim, Mayo and Galway East support greenway campaign to protect closed railway as “Western Rail Trail” in their own constituencies


A statement from the Western rail Trail campaign – a campaign group working to bring the disused Athenry-Collooney rail corridor back into use as a greenway and economic corridor – has welcomed the commitment to Rural Development contained in the discussion document circulated to independent TDs as part of negotiations to form a new government. Brendan Quinn of the Western Rail Trail campaign said the campaign obtained a copy of the discussion document earlier this week.
The document commits to the appointment of a Minister for Rural Affairs who will have responsibility for the implementation of the 2014 CEDRA Report, the report of the Commission for the Economic Development of Rural Areas. The report identified assets with huge capacity for development in rural areas, including canals, unused rural pathways and railways as greenway routes.
The Western Rail Trail Campaign welcomes the commitment to develop these unused assets, and the commitment of funding of €100 million for the development of greenways on these routes.
Brendan Quinn of the Western Rail Trail Campaign says that ‘other areas have been marching ahead with this kind of development; in recent weeks the Deise Greenway in Waterford is already proving a hit with locals and visitors alike, despite it being still under construction and not due for completion until autumn. The heavy use of partly-completed sections of the Deise trail shows the huge pent-up demand for amenities like this, apart from their economic value to communities. The success of the Great Western Greenway is already well established’
He went on to say that ‘the inclusion of the Atlantic Economic Corridor – the upgrading of the N17 – and the undertaking to develop rural broadband as an economic driver shows a commitment by the emerging government to areas like Tubbercurry, Charlestown, Swinford, Kiltimagh, Claremorris, Collooney, Tuam, and Athenry that has been absent in the past. We believe that the fastest way to deliver industrial strength broadband to these towns is to immediately develop the greenway and include ducting for broadband along the route. The greenway project has the support of Irish Rail, the Department of Transport, and a majority of TDs along the route. It is truly a ‘shovel-ready’ project that would demonstrate the commitment of the incoming government to real and sustainable Rural Development.’

Majority of TDs along route of Western Rail Trail support Greenway project

The Western Rail Trail campaign has contacted the eleven TDs in the three constituenies through which the Western Rail Trail will run, Sligo/Leitrim, Mayo and Galway East. The campaign group now has the full support of six of the eleven TDs in these three constituencies: Two TDs in Galway East, Anne Rabbitte of FF and Ciaran Cannon of FG plus all four TDs in Sligo/Leitrim, Eamon Scanlon and Marc MacSharry of FF, Tony Mcloughlin FG and Martin Kenny of SF. The campaign is still waiting to hear from the four Mayo TDs, who so far have made no firm committment to the Western Rail Trail despite huge public support for the idea in Mayo.

Sligo county council are committed to the Sligo section of the Western Rail Trail, however Mayo and Galway county councils have yet to come on board for this tourism and infrastucture initiative said Quinn.

ENDS: body text 509 words
Contacts: Brendan Quinn 087 4198193
Picture caption: Greenway on closed railway has cross party majority support of TDs along the route.