Ireland's abortion laws challenged in Europe

metrovelvet

Walls wrote: »

She wasn't suspected of one, she had one, and a scan would have revealed it as such. She was denied medical care with no viable alternative than to go abroad. No one in their right mind can believe that is acceptable.

Is there no standard medical protocol? If her life was endangered by the doctors refusal cant she take out a lawsuit? I thought that it was available if the pregnancy endangered your life.

Dr Kamikazi

To me it's still a decision on whether Ireland should deal with a very real problem the same way it deals with all problems (abortion, alcoholism, drug abuse, social inequality, rapidly filling prisons and a few other things) by
A: Taxing them
B: Making them illegal
or
C: Completely ignoring them, hoping they'll go away.
Everything bar facing up to the problem and coming up with solutions.
But no.
That would mean coming to a decision one way or another and if you do that it is likely someone is upset and we can't have that now, can we?
So Ireland will drag on in limbo, head in the clowds, fingers in ears and singing LALALALALAAAAAAAAAA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU!
But hopefully the outcome of this case will force Ireland to face up to the issues one way or the others.
Would be nice to have Ireland dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century, but to do that it would have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 20th century first.
But it's much more comfortable to sit on a very high horse, proudly proclaiming "we have none of that here, thank you very much" while thousands of women are forced to travel abroad.
Kind of the same way we approach nuclear energy.
We are green, us! We only burn peat because it's dirtier and less efficient, but at least we don't need any of that nasty nuclear power. We only buy it on the sly from the brits, then pretend it doesn't exist.
Typical head in the sand, it doesn't concern me, don't want to know, I'd rather not get involved Ireland.

Walls

If this decision is one that is acceptable under Irish Legislation then this matter is clearly without scrutiny in a lot of areas. These women are going to Europe to getting nothing more than their rights.

This deserves a lot more attention than we have been giving it.

Boston

Walls wrote: »

She wasn't suspected of one, she had one, and a scan would have revealed it as such. She was denied medical care with no viable alternative than to go abroad. No one in their right mind can believe that is acceptable.

I'm sorry but that's complete nonsense. I know more then one couple who had a ectopic pregnancy scare. The doctors involved explained very clearly that a termination would have to be carried out in the matter hospital, Dublin.

Carrying a ectopic pregnancy to term is fatal for the mother, even the chruch agrees that termination in these instances is acceptable. If she was refused treatment here for a ectopic pregnancy she should sue her doctor and the HSE. I think there's more to this story then meets the eyes.

Walls

I've had a quick look at the ECJ website and not surprisingly there doesn't seem to be anything up on it yet. However, the news reports here and here state that it was as described.

Boston

Walls wrote: »

the news reports here

I don't see where theres a mention of ectopic pregnancy there.

Walls wrote: »

and here state that it was as described.

One of the three had been diagnosed as at risk of an ectopic pregnancy, with the foetus developing outside the womb.

Hmm, reading that, it seems like sloppy writing to me. Either way it says she was at risk of one, not that she had one. Until I see something more definite I think it best to reserve judgement on this case since I know for a fact that this is grounds for a legal abortion here. Infact even the strong risk of a pregnancy which could kill the mother is grounds.

sparkling sea

Boston wrote: »

I'm sorry but that's complete nonsense. I know more then one couple who had a ectopic pregnancy scare. The doctors involved explained very clearly that a termination would have to be carried out in the matter hospital, Dublin.

Carrying a ectopic pregnancy to term is fatal for the mother, even the chruch agrees that termination in these instances is acceptable. If she was refused treatment here for a ectopic pregnancy she should sue her doctor and the HSE. I think there's more to this story then meets the eyes.

Its elective until a threat arises, well thats what one of my friends was told, and she was not a priority.

It definitely depends on the doctor and sometimes if you are a public or private patient, beds, etc. Although an ectopic pregency will at some stage present a risk to the mothers life, it is not unusual for doctors to want to wait until such a situation arises for both legal and/or moral reasons.

The people you knew were lucky they had such an understanding doctor.

I know someone who travelled to have an ectopic pregnancy terminated, she had two young kids at the time and was absolutely terrified something would happen to her.

I also know someone who knew from the 6th week that the pregnancy was ectopic but was not operated on until the 10th week (in Ireland) as she did not have any problems until then.

Boston

Well some hospital still keep strictly to Catholic ethos. Though the terminations are carried out in the matter I think it would be very hard to get the OK for a termination from a doctor there. Thats purely based on my experience of their attitude towards cesarean sections.

metrovelvet

I think even if it were available in Ireland women would still travel for fear of bumping into their neighbor in the waiting room. Small country, people dont even go to shrinks for fear of being seen in the valley of the squinting windows.

tomcollins97

Ultimately a woman should have the right to choose and make the decision for whatever reason she sees fit. It should not be anyone else's position to decide if these reasons are justified.

opinion guy

Ectopics are considered non-viable pregnancies as if left alone the overwhelming majority of times neither the foetus nor the mother will survive. Termination of ectopics are carried out in any hospital with a gynae unit and if emergent a general surgeon might do it if a gynae wasn't available. Hospital ethos etc etc does not enter into it.

sparkling sea

opinion guy wrote: »

Ectopics are considered non-viable pregnancies as if left alone the overwhelming majority of times neither the foetus nor the mother will survive. Termination of ectopics are carried out in any hospital with a gynae unit and if emergent a general surgeon might do it if a gynae wasn't available. Hospital ethos etc etc does not enter into it.

Yes but not necessarily immediately as I have pointed out already and no matter what guidlines, etc state, the fact of the matter is some women from Ireland do travel as they are not prepared to wait.

common sense brigade

but up to 4 months is fine.

4 months! have you actually seen a scan of the development of a baby at 4 months (Yes its a baby not a fetus)At the end of 4 months:

• Fetus is 6-1/2 to 7 inches long
• Weighs about 6 to 7 ounces
• Fetus is developing reflexes such as sucking and swallowing. Fetus may begin sucking his/her thumb
  
• Tooth buds are developing
• Sweat glands are forming on palms and soles
• Fingers are well defined
• Sex is identifiable
• Skin is bright pink, transparent and covered with soft, downy hair
  
• Although recognizably human in appearnace, the baby would not be able to survive outside the mother's body

Wibbs

Zombie threads, IE reviving year old threads is frowned upon on this site(and pretty much all such sites). If you'd like to kick off a debate please feel free to start a new one. Thanks