Shane Lowry - 2019 Champion Golfer of The Year (note first post please for posting guidance)

Pogue eile

GreeBo wrote: »

You don't seem to be able to be objective about any Irish golfers, so frankly its pretty pointless trying to talk to you about it.

Pot, kettle, black stuff all over the place!

FixdePitchmark

GreeBo wrote: »

Whats any of that got to do with anything that anyone on here is saying?:rolleyes:

His ability as a golfer is not related to where he is from, so (most) people can be both from the same country as he is AND be objective about him.

You don't seem to be able to be objective about any Irish golfers, so frankly its pretty pointless trying to talk to you about it.

There is not point in you posting in any thread - because you get them closed.

GreeBo

AGC wrote: »

Yeah I would rate him as a better player, taking world ranking for example would prove that but you’ll be a while finding a quote where I said their majors mean nothing

Well what do you think it means for those two players compared to the WGC that Lowry won?

Rikand

davo10 wrote: »

I rest my case.

Adiaga 2

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Players like Mark Roe - Chris Wood - Stephen Gallacher - Donaldson have played at Ryder cups -

Not to nitpick, but Mark Roe never played in the Ryder Cup.

Russman

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I know this is controversial - but I personally don't rate Ryder cup appearances. Going over to the US and winning an a event there - a WGC is streets ahead of that (IMO).

Players like Mark Roe - Chris Wood - Stephen Gallacher - Donaldson have played at Ryder cups - and they are some of the good ones I could have picked players who couldn't clean Shane's shoes.

If Shane returned to European tour he would have multiple wins and be pushing a Ryder Cup place. But he had more ambition and backed himself in the states - it paid off with a win. But he has had a dip in form.

Some of these vaulted Irish wins mentioned by Irish golfers are little more than regional events. Shane got to 21st in the OWGR - in an era when it is a true global game of incredible standard

He will learn from this - the hard way. I'd say he will come back stronger and better.

To be honest the Ryder cup thing is a load of bull**** (IMO).

I wouldn't dream of using a Ryder Cup - a fake team match play event as a KPI for a golfer.

Totally agree that winning a WGC, particularly the one at an iconic venue like Firestone, is streets ahead of a Ryder Cup appearance.

Fake team matchplay is probably a bit harsh, its a great TV event, but I agree, its not really a barometer for a golfer's career. Although don't tell Sky Sports or Poulter that :D! I suppose to be fair, Poulter has 15 wins on the main two tours, which I'd argue should be well within Shane's capabilities. I'd definitely say he's a far more talented player than Poulter, but maybe doesn't have the streak of thickness.

GreeBo

Russman wrote: »

Totally agree that winning a WGC, particularly the one at an iconic venue like Firestone, is streets ahead of a Ryder Cup appearance.

Fake team matchplay is probably a bit harsh, its a great TV event, but I agree, its not really a barometer for a golfer's career. Although don't tell Sky Sports or Poulter that :D! I suppose to be fair, Poulter has 15 wins on the main two tours, which I'd argue should be well within Shane's capabilities. I'd definitely say he's a far more talented player than Poulter, but maybe doesn't have the streak of thickness.

I think your points about the Ryder Cup ignore the fact that to get on a Ryder Cup team you have to have played well.

If you make multiple Ryder Cup teams I think its an excellent barometer of your career, clearly you consistently play well enough to make the team?

Now the points you score during your appearances might be meaningless in terms of your career, but the appearances are certainly not.

Derek Zoolander

AGC wrote: »

4 clear going into the last round, getting it to -7 he should be winning.

but he bottled the last round - Its not like he was unlucky or did a JVV on it throwing away a 3 shot lead down the last...

he bogeyed 4 of his first seven holes....

I'd love to see him win a major but I don't think his short game is good enough yet -

Trampas

Poulter would admit he’s not the most talented golfer out there but he works hard.

He’s also won multiple wgc.

If Shane achieves close to what Poulter has it’ll be a good career.

Shane as things go wouldn’t be never a name you’d pick to win a major but like most pros if on a given week he’d could win one.

The baby is 1.5 nearly so he should be over new baby issues.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Russman

GreeBo wrote: »

I think your points about the Ryder Cup ignore the fact that to get on a Ryder Cup team you have to have played well.

If you make multiple Ryder Cup teams I think its an excellent barometer of your career, clearly you consistently play well enough to make the team?

Now the points you score during your appearances might be meaningless in terms of your career, but the appearances are certainly not.

Well, maybe, but someone could have multiple appearances through captain's picks, not always the most objective assessment of a player.

Plus selection is often dependent on other players playing well or poorly in a given 6 month stretch. eg Poulter was in the team this time last week and Olesen put him out with his performance, yet Poulter's season & results haven't changed, he's still had an excellent year, and IMO with a win in the States, a better one than Olesen.

I agree that someone has to have played well, especially nowadays, to make multiple appearances, but I think most players would list team appearances well below their tour wins, when compiling their CV. Equally someone can have played well and have multiple tour wins (even in the same season) and never make a team if their wins fall outside the team selection window.

I think Shane needs to focus on his individual performances first, the rest will follow as a natural consequence. IMO he's still young enough and good enough, he just needs to pull the finger out.

Russman

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Purely opinion.

GreeBo

Russman wrote: »

Well, maybe, but someone could have multiple appearances through captain's picks, not always the most objective assessment of a player.

Plus selection is often dependent on other players playing well or poorly in a given 6 month stretch. eg Poulter was in the team this time last week and Olesen put him out with his performance, yet Poulter's season & results haven't changed, he's still had an excellent year, and IMO with a win in the States, a better one than Olesen.

I agree that someone has to have played well, especially nowadays, to make multiple appearances, but I think most players would list team appearances well below their tour wins, when compiling their CV. Equally someone can have played well and have multiple tour wins (even in the same season) and never make a team if their wins fall outside the team selection window.

I think Shane needs to focus on his individual performances first, the rest will follow as a natural consequence. IMO he's still young enough and good enough, he just needs to pull the finger out.

Definitely players themselves would rank wins over appearances, no doubt.

But for an objective view, to compare player careers, I think consistently appearing in a Ryder Cup means you are a top player.

If you look at the guys who have made it multiple times, I think they are all, pretty much without exception top quality golfers and their careers are far and beyond Lowrys thus far.

Sure you might get some captains picks, but you wont make a Ryder Cup career out of Captains picks.

sydneygolfdude

sorry if this has been covered. But whats Lowery's options now? can he play the webtour.com playoffs like Power did last year? Or will he be back on the European tour?

Russman

Derek Zoolander wrote: »

but he bottled the last round - Its not like he was unlucky or did a JVV on it throwing away a 3 shot lead down the last...

he bogeyed 4 of his first seven holes....

I'd love to see him win a major but I don't think his short game is good enough yet -

That's a bit harsh, golf is hard and nobody can play well to order. Anyone can bogey 4 holes on a US Open layout, especially one like Oakmont.

Agree his short game needs work.

SeeMoreBut

I believe he isn't going down the tour school but playing in Portugal instead.

Maybe he thinks he can survive on invites to gain enough points to get card next year and he's above going to tour school for a top 100 player but who knows.

With changes on pga tour schedule next year will be interesting how the euro tour schedule will be like from after desert swing to after us open as big events every month in states

Rikand

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Shane probably has more natural talent, but he has nowhere near the workrate of Poulter. There are few players in the game who have had to work as hard as Poulter to get to the level he has gotten to.

OEP

Russman wrote: »

Purely opinion.

Do you form your opinions based on little evidence or facts?

Poulter has 17 wins, 2 in WGCs. Has finished 2nd and T3 in The Open, T3 in the PGA and T6 in the masters. Shane doesn't come close to this.

Shane seems like a great guy, who I'd love to do well, and who has done well but it's ridiculous that people can compare him to the likes of Poulter, given Shane's record.

OEP

Rikand wrote: »

Shane probably has more natural talent, but he has nowhere near the workrate of Poulter. There are few players in the game who have had to work as hard as Poulter to get to the level he has gotten to.

How are you judging this natural talent?

davo10

OEP wrote: »

How are you judging this natural talent?

Cause he's Irish?

Russman

OEP wrote: »

Do you form your opinions based on little evidence or facts?

Poulter has 17 wins, 2 in WGCs. Has finished 2nd and T3 in The Open, T3 in the PGA and T6 in the masters. Shane doesn't come close to this.

Shane seems like a great guy, who I'd love to do well, and who has done well but it's ridiculous that people can compare him to the likes of Poulter, given Shane's record.

It’s an opinion, it doesn’t mean its right or its wrong, it’s just what I think.

I totally agree Poulter’s record is way better than Shane’s, which is why I think Shane needs to change something as he could/should be doing better than someone who freely admits he was no better than a 4/5 handicapper when he went pro.

Rikand

OEP wrote: »

How are you judging this natural talent?

I'm from around the same area he is. I followed him to a lot of amateur tournaments. Gifted and gifted even without having to put in a huge amount of effort. I remember watching a match between himself and Paul Cutler at the interpros and being blown away. Cutler was good, but Lowry.....(Have I used the word gifted yet )

GreeBo

Rikand wrote: »

I'm from around the same area he is. I followed him to a lot of amateur tournaments. Gifted and gifted even without having to put in a huge amount of effort. I remember watching a match between himself and Paul Cutler at the interpros and being blown away. Cutler was good, but Lowry.....(Have I used the word gifted yet )

With all due respect, unless you are comparing Lowry to the guys at the top of the OWGR then "gifted" needs context.

I'm sure 99% of the guys on the PGA tour would look gifted compared to Cutler, probably on a lot of other tours too.

Rikand

He would have looked gifted alongside anyone that day

Minderbinder

I don't understand why he isn't going down the web tour route. He's moved over there and is turning down the last chance he has to get a card, and it's a considerably easier chance than he had going into the last four events of the fedex cup regular season.
I'm starting to agree with those saying he just doesn't want to do the hard work.

mickmackmcgoo

Minderbinder wrote:

I don't understand why he isn't going down the web tour route. He's moved over there and is turning down the last chance he has to get a card, and it's a considerably easier chance than he had going into the last four events of the fedex cup regular season. I'm starting to agree with those saying he just doesn't want to do the hard work.

He has a category next year on the PGA tour . He will be in the 125 to 150 category finishers from this year's tour. It's a low enough category but will get him into around 16 events plus he will get invites .

AGC

Minderbinder wrote: »

I don't understand why he isn't going down the web tour route. He's moved over there and is turning down the last chance he has to get a card, and it's a considerably easier chance than he had going into the last four events of the fedex cup regular season.
I'm starting to agree with those saying he just doesn't want to do the hard work.

He has made it clear he is coming back to Europe and playing here to try get back up the world rankings and also play in some events in US next year.

He only moved over to the States until June, been back living in Ireland since

Trampas

Rikand wrote: »

I'm from around the same area he is. I followed him to a lot of amateur tournaments. Gifted and gifted even without having to put in a huge amount of effort. I remember watching a match between himself and Paul Cutler at the interpros and being blown away. Cutler was good, but Lowry.....(Have I used the word gifted yet )

I’m sure there’s many of amateurs who were told were gifted and never made it as a pro.

Shane had a great start as a pro. No need to worry about tour card for a few years. 99% of pros have that pressure.

Shane’s in a big point in his career and now it’s hard work to get back into top 50 and all that comes with it or just be a European tour player.

You’ll struggle to get into top 50 just on euro tour. You need the pga tour to help.

Donald probably never be back there. Scott back in after looking the same way.

Each year it gets harder

slave1

AGC wrote: »

He has made it clear he is coming back to Europe and playing here to try get back up the world rankings ...

Would have thought the US was the route to get back up the rankings, much better world ranking point tournaments over there

AGC

slave1 wrote: »

Would have thought the US was the route to get back up the rankings, much better world ranking point tournaments over there

If you are in the play offs yes but in Europe you have British masters, Dunhill, Turkish Open, Nedbank and Dubai which will all have big ranking points