Would you welcome atheists into your church

Tim Robbins

Graces7 wrote: »

And all need to respect that; it is not the right place for political or even theological debates.

Okay so nearly every one is adamant that an atheist should not speak during a mass / sermon except for me and Fr. Iggy.

Just wondering do any of you have support from scripture?

Rondolfus

rohatch wrote: »

To preachers, clergy, of any religious group.

Would you welcome a group of atheists to one of your sermons, and be prepared to have a discussion afterwards over tea and coffee and biscuits.

We could have a decent discussion.

This is what annoys me about both atheists and religious people alike. I seriously don't care what you believe in , just don't preach it to me. If you're an atheist why do you feel the need to seek out religious groups just so you can preach to them under the guise of a "discussion"??? Similarly if you're religious why would you feel the need to seek out atheists??

I look at both religious people and atheists the same way. Both are smug and self satisfied, both believe they have all the answers and everybody should listen to them, both are the last type of people you want to be stuck talking to at parties.


There's an atheist forum, a christian forum, there should also be an " I don't really give a **** forum."

Puck

Tim Robbins wrote: »

straw man

BINGO!

What do I win?

Fanny Cradock

Rondolfus wrote: »

This is what annoys me about both atheists and religious people alike. I seriously don't care what you believe in , just don't preach it to me. If you're an atheist why do you feel the need to seek out religious groups just so you can preach to them under the guise of a "discussion"??? Similarly if you're religious why would you feel the need to seek out atheists??

I look at both religious people and atheists the same way. Both are smug and self satisfied, both believe they have all the answers and everybody should listen to them, both are the last type of people you want to be stuck talking to at parties.


There's an atheist forum, a christian forum, there should also be an " I don't really give a **** forum."

Well, ignoring the fact that you cared enough to write a post telling us how much you don't care, I would suggest that people have the right to express their opinions, albeit in appropriate ways and occasions. If you want to start a nihilism forum (AKA the "I don't really give a **** forum") go here. But you must ask yourself, "would anyone be bothered posting in it?"

Also, please refrain from generalisations and name calling. Not only does it break the charter, it does you a disservice.

Thank you!

Fanny Cradock

Tim Robbins wrote: »

No I argue it would make them think a bit more. It might prevent them from using straw man arguments just like you did there.

Fair enough, I exaggerated your claim.

Graces7

Why would you want to speak during mass?

Colm O'Gorman wanted to to attack the Church; which was singularly and seriously bizarre.

He did anyway. But without disrespecting Jesus.

Seriously, or are you simply trolling here?

Seems so from your last sentence.

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Okay so nearly every one is adamant that an atheist should not speak during a mass / sermon except for me and Fr. Iggy.

Just wondering do any of you have support from scripture?

Graces7

Where did this come from? Gee...

Rondolfus wrote: »

This is what annoys me about both atheists and religious people alike. I seriously don't care what you believe in , just don't preach it to me. If you're an atheist why do you feel the need to seek out religious groups just so you can preach to them under the guise of a "discussion"??? Similarly if you're religious why would you feel the need to seek out atheists??

I look at both religious people and atheists the same way. Both are smug and self satisfied, both believe they have all the answers and everybody should listen to them, both are the last type of people you want to be stuck talking to at parties.


There's an atheist forum, a christian forum, there should also be an " I don't really give a **** forum."

Excelsior

Tim Robbins wrote: »

A better analogy (if you wish to use that cringe inducing way of arguing) would be if a physics group only let members of its own group speak at its conferences and never let any member outside that group with an alternative view speak.

An even better analogy is that a group of physicists gather for a conference and you propose that I come and address them on the sociological assumptions at work in Cormac McCarthy's Border Trilogy.

When they reject my proposal, no one would be claiming that literature is a less valuable topic of study and conversation than physics. They would simply be maintaining the integrity of their conference. Which is totally legitimate.

Churches follow the Scriptural injunction to train their teachers well. In the mainline denominations this means an academic commitment of between 4 and 8 years and an ongoing on-the-job apprenticeship. It differs only in scale with independent congregations. While I welcome any kind of engagement and discussion (I love it) after my sermons, I was still a member of a church for five years before they thought (and I thought) I had anything particularly meaningful to share as a teacher. You may think it is rude. You may think it is inconsistent. But you also wouldn't be slow to criticise if a church mistakenly let someone teach something stupid from their pulpit.

You will find it hard to have it both ways.

Tim Robbins wrote:

it could be a special day every year to parallel Jesus welcoming the Romans into his house.

What? What house? What Romans? What are you blathering about man?Matthew 8:20. "Jesus replied, "Foxes have holes and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head."

Rohatch wrote:

To preachers, clergy, of any religious group.

Would you welcome a group of atheists to one of your sermons, and be prepared to have a discussion afterwards over tea and coffee and biscuits.

We could have a decent discussion.

Atheists are wholeheartedly welcome to come along to any Presbyterian church. They might find a few of them quite boring but I can't help that...

I would be happy to have atheists address our church's monthly discussion event called FORUM if they were special experts on a topic and there would be some situations where I would be happy to have atheists (or Buddhists/agnostics/FSM lovers etc) to address the congregation (for example in the aftermath of a great tragedy that affected them or if they were public servants for whom the church prayed [eg: we pray for the locality's teachers, gardaí, fire service etc regularly] or in the run up to a large social event like Special Olympics) but they could never preach. The idea is oxymoronic. Preaching isn't about espousing clever philosophies or approaches to life but explaining the Christian Scriptures.

Tim Robbins

Excelsior wrote: »

But you also wouldn't be slow to criticise if a church mistakenly let someone teach something stupid from their pulpit.

I think I'd be banned if I replied honestly to that.

rohatch

Tim Robbins wrote: »

No I am saying you are being inconsistent with your reasoning telling people they are welcome but their opinions are not welcomed to be aired in the same way your's are. Immediately you are treating their stance as second class.

One thing I remember about church was that all our opinions or freewill was not important. We were there just to chant and worship.

Malty_T wrote: »

How many times has this to be clarified to you?
No one is stopping Atheists speaking at a Church, we're just saying it wouldn't be wise for atheists to speak during a church ceremony.

What are you trying to be?

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Okay so nearly every one is adamant that an atheist should not speak during a mass / sermon except for me and Fr. Iggy.

Just wondering do any of you have support from scripture?

There is nothing stopping us from approaching the priest during a mass and having a discussion. No point asking about scripture proof because there is an answer for everything in the book.

BrianCalgary

During youh group one night we had a Mormon come and speak about his faith.
It led to some very good discussion.
There is a time and a place Tim, worship service is neither the time nor the place to do anything but worship God.

Graces7

Interesting idea. I think you would find you would not get very far. Maybe out of the door.

Mass is sacred - period.

There was a thread on one US Catholic board re what would happen if eg the priest fainted or died during mass, or a member of the congregation.

Simply? Mass would continue whatever happened.

Protesters have tried interrupting and also at Anglican communion services, and swiftly been "escorted " from the building.

Mass is not the place or time for this; and no one of any respect or reason would attempt this.

Try it and let us know? Thank you. Should be interesting!

There is nothing stopping us from approaching the priest during a mass and having a discussion. No point asking about scripture proof because there is an answer for everything in the book.[/quote]

Turtwig

rohatch wrote: »

What are you trying to be?