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Gatso's vans are dangerous

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    #32
    rohatch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 233 ✭✭rohatch


    Just ensure new cars are limited electronically to the speed limit.


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    #33
    pokerface_me
    Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭pokerface_me


    Anan1 wrote: »
    The less experienced or competent drivers panic when they see anything unexpected. The solution is proper training/testing/enforcement. Or do you think that we should do away with marked Garda cars too, on the basis that they might give someone who's not fit to drive a fright?

    Cut backs all over the place and you want extra training/testing/enforcement. Get with the times man.

    Ahh your right i'm wrong, no point in arguing with a Mod, normally ends up in a ban for the person that dares to question.


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    #34
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,738 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    AugustusMaximus wrote: »
    Gatso Vans being hidden could potentially cause a massive pileup on a motorway due to drivers slamming on the brakes when they see it at last minute.

    Of course they're dangerous.
    Of course they're dangerous.

    by they you mean drivers slamming on don't you = 5 penalty points + court appearance for dangerous driving




    Most motorists break the law, but somehow imagine they are doing nothing wrong. Putting average speed cameras on the M50 60kph road works

    then do a cross reference between the drivers and their licenses, anyone with a provisional will have to explain why they were on the M50




    and yes the private speed cameras will be happening


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    #35
    pokerface_me
    Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭pokerface_me


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Of course they're dangerous.

    by they you mean drivers slamming on don't you = 5 penalty points + court appearance for dangerous driving

    Didn't know you could get 5 penalty points for hitting the brakes or end up in court or be done for dangerous driving.....all seems a bit extreme to me. Must remember that the next time a kid runs out in front of me.


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    #36
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,818 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    pokerface_me wrote: »
    Cut backs all over the place and you want extra training/testing/enforcement. Get with the times man.
    Your argument that we get rid of GATSO vans on the basis that they might frighten the incompetent is quite simply ridiculous. I've already asked you whether you would get rid of marked Garda cars for the same reason and you've yet to answer the question. As I see it, any driver who can't deal with a distraction that's not even on the carriageway shouldn't be behind the wheel in the first place.
    pokerface_me wrote: »
    Ahh your right i'm wrong, no point in arguing with a Mod, normally ends up in a ban for the person that dares to question.
    Sounds to me like you've made a point you can't substantiate and now you're looking for a way out. Well you won't be using me - i've had many, many disagreements in my time here without ever having banned someone over them. As long as you're not breaking the rules re personal abuse, etc, a mod can't ban you. So go ahead, if you have a point make it.


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    #37
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,738 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    pokerface_me wrote: »
    Didn't know you could get 5 penalty points for hitting the brakes or end up in court or be done for dangerous driving.....all seems a bit extreme to me. Must remember that the next time a kid runs out in front of me.
    :rolleyes:

    There is a difference between trying to save a life as instead of putting others at risk


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    #38
    pokerface_me
    Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭pokerface_me


    Anan1 wrote: »
    As I see it, any driver who can't deal with a distraction that's not even on the carriageway shouldn't be behind the wheel in the first place.

    Yep and there are thousands of them behind the wheel in this country, if thats your answer fine but we all don't live in the little idealistic world you do. Just because they shouldn't be there doesn't mean they aren't there.


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    #39
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,818 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    pokerface_me wrote: »
    Yep and there are thousands of them behind the wheel in this country, if thats your answer fine but we all don't live in the little idealistic world you do. Just because they shouldn't be there doesn't mean they aren't there.
    It makes it rather difficult to have a reasoned discussion when you persistently avoid answering my question. For the third time, should we also get rid of marked Garda cars on the basis that they might also frighten these people? How about other drivers coming too close? Perhaps we need to take it further and provide each and every one of these incompetents with a protective cordon around them lest they see anything that might distract them? Or is this too ridiculous even for you?


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    #40
    ceepeedee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 62 ✭✭ceepeedee


    pokerface_me wrote: »
    Just because they shouldn't be there doesn't mean they aren't there.

    Same argument could be applied to Gatsos.


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    #41
    pokerface_me
    Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭pokerface_me


    Sorry Anan been a bit of a dope last few posts had the mother of all days.

    Back to the gatso vans. In an Ideal world every one would do the limit and there would be no need for Gatso vans. Unfortunatly people in this country not all of them, don't give a monkeys.

    Gatso van is on the side of the road driver jams on>>>>FACT

    Gatso van NOT on the side of the road, driver doesn't jam on>>>>FACT

    Now if you can get get 5 points and a court apperance for jamming on its considered dangerous driving, the fact is the presence of the Gatso van caused the dangerous driving do you agree with me or not.

    I drive 3000kms a week 520-550km a day, i see all sorts and i'm very experienced on the road to tell you that these vans are a hazard as are people who speed.

    Our objective here is to save lives, but i feel there objective is revenue nothing more nothing less. The car has sped past at 130kms an hour and a fine arrives with some points 3 weeks later who's life does that save.


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    #42
    BlackWizard
    Registered Users Posts: 3,282 ✭✭✭BlackWizard


    They definitely are a potential hazard. But I don't think the potential hazard will ever realise in the form of a direct accident.

    It will cause tail backs and undoubtedly someone will be caught changing the radio channel and rear ending someone. But I wouldn't put that down to the speed camera.


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    #43
    I.S.T.
    Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭I.S.T.


    Anan1 wrote: »
    That's an explanation of how driver incompetence caused the crash. Thing is, you said that the camera van caused the crash. Perhaps, after you've taken a few deep breaths, you could explain that to me.

    Probably in the same way the RSA harp on about speed contributing to crashes. The speed may not actually cause the crash (it could be a badly engineered road for example) but the speed was a factor. In this case the Green Gatso van was a factor as it has the effect of causing drivers to break instinctively when they see it.


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    #44
    I.S.T.
    Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭I.S.T.


    rohatch wrote: »
    Just ensure new cars are limited electronically to the speed limit.

    So what happens if you are in a situation where you need to increase your speed to avoid a crash or dangerous situation?


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    #45
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,818 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    pokerface_me wrote: »
    Sorry Anan been a bit of a dope last few posts had the mother of all days.

    Back to the gatso vans. In an Ideal world every one would do the limit and there would be no need for Gatso vans. Unfortunatly people in this country not all of them, don't give a monkeys.

    Gatso van is on the side of the road driver jams on>>>>FACT

    Gatso van NOT on the side of the road, driver doesn't jam on>>>>FACT

    Now if you can get get 5 points and a court apperance for jamming on its considered dangerous driving, the fact is the presence of the Gatso van caused the dangerous driving do you agree with me or not.

    I drive 3000kms a week 520-550km a day, i see all sorts and i'm very experienced on the road to tell you that these vans are a hazard as are people who speed.
    No problem. I'm afraid I don't agree that it's the van that caused the driver to jam on. The roads are chock-full of unexpected developments, and the GATSO van isn't even on the carriageway! In any case, the only way around what you're saying is camouflaged cameras, and I don't think any of us want that.
    pokerface_me wrote: »
    Our objective here is to save lives, but i feel there objective is revenue nothing more nothing less. The car has sped past at 130kms an hour and a fine arrives with some points 3 weeks later who's life does that save.
    Penalties definitely change drivers behaviour, there's no question about that. For example, I tend to drive at 140-180km/h on the M4/M6, and have no points at present. If I were to pick up say six points for speeding do you think i'd slow down? Dead right I would.;)


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    #46
    I.S.T.
    Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭I.S.T.


    Anan1 wrote: »
    No problem. I'm afraid I don't agree that it's the van that caused the driver to jam on. The roads are chock-full of unexpected developments, and the GATSO van isn't even on the carriageway!
    Of course it's the gatso van that cause drivers to jam on. Why else to all the break lights ahead of me light up light a Christmas tree when there is one parked at the site of the road?


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    #47
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,818 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »
    Of course it's the gatso van that cause drivers to jam on. Why else to all the break lights ahead of me light up light a Christmas tree when there is one parked at the site of the road?
    I'm sure you know that the slightest touch of the brakes will bring on the brake lights. I'll get legal if I see one, but without endangering other road users. I know some people jam on for vans in the same way that some people jam on for Garda cars, but they don't do it because of the van - they do it because they can't drive.


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    #48
    rohatch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 233 ✭✭rohatch


    IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »
    So what happens if you are in a situation where you need to increase your speed to avoid a crash or dangerous situation?

    You wouldn't be getting in those situations, thats the whole point.


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    #49
    msg11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭msg11


    I got flashed, massive flash in my face.

    Bit of a joke really. Went back to see it in action, Made €1240 In the 20Mins I was watching it.

    Mainly from taxi drivers.

    After a flash, you have cars jamming on the breaks, people flying from lane one to lane two. Too avoid a crash. Put on the road to make money & I can see it leading to a serious accident. Then again, its not for me too decided.

    BTW, its a new sneaky one down in fairview as your heading towards town, just after the bridge, the van was unmarked, parked behind another van, also noted it was only taking pictures of cars in the 1st & 2nd lane.

    Was in the process of changing lanes cause of some donkey doing about 30K, got a bit happy with my foot and then a flash, which I though was lighting hitting the ground.


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    #50
    KamiKazi
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,201 ✭✭✭KamiKazi


    Gatso van sitting on the N4 this morning, it's ridiculous.

    three lanes + bus lane, straight enough road in good condition, no bad weather conditions yet an 80km/h speed limit.

    Saving lives indeed :rolleyes:


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    #51
    Hoffmans
    Registered Users Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭Hoffmans


    these things been round for years usually thrown out around xmas to boost the dongut-munchers detection stats in places where they will grt maximum revenue eg ,where a 100k limit leads into a 50 or 60 you'll see them usually on nice long stretches of carriageway...

    never in built up areas where pedstrians or kids at play may venture on to the road ,the cops dont care about these people, its only about just making a quick buck off the already over taxed over insured....:rolleyes:motorists


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    #52
    preilly79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 627 ✭✭✭preilly79


    I passed it last week; had the cruise control on, 100kph on the button and the thing flashed me. I'm dreading what might come in the post.


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    #53
    OldmanMondeo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭OldmanMondeo


    preilly79 wrote: »
    I passed it last week; had the cruise control on, 100kph on the button and the thing flashed me. I'm dreading what might come in the post.

    Won't take long, work van got flashed Friday 27th, Issued Tuesday 1st, received in office Thursday 3rd...


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    #54
    msg11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭msg11


    preilly79 wrote: »
    I passed it last week; had the cruise control on, 100kph on the button and the thing flashed me. I'm dreading what might come in the post.

    Same here pal. I would have rather been pulled over for speeding, at leased theres some reasoning with the Gardai, but with that camera your ****ed.


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    #55
    Shires
    Closed Accounts Posts: 93 ✭✭Shires


    rohatch wrote: »
    Just ensure new cars are limited electronically to the speed limit.

    The most puerile statement I have come across all week... possibly excepting the contents of last Sunday's Sunday Tribune.
    IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »
    So what happens if you are in a situation where you need to increase your speed to avoid a crash or dangerous situation?

    Indeed, or if you have a life and death situation and need to get to help fast, say a hospital?

    My friend Johnny was in that situation and he drove as fast as was safe for the conditions en route, which in many places was far in excess of the posted limits.

    I imagine that an in-car limiter, or GATSO cameras wouldn't have been quite as understanding of Johnny's predicament as, say, a traffic policeman would have been.


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    #56
    donvito99
    Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Gatso's vans are dangerous

    [Pedantic] Just to point out, there isn't some chap who runs Gatso vans or anything! [/Pedantic]


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    #57
    Armadillo
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭Armadillo


    KamiKazi wrote: »
    Gatso van sitting on the N4 this morning, it's ridiculous.

    three lanes + bus lane, straight enough road in good condition, no bad weather conditions yet an 80km/h speed limit.

    Saving lives indeed :rolleyes:

    I got flashed 'face on' by this van this morning. I was in the car in the nearside lane. There was also a car in the middle and a car in the far offside lane. I believe that I was driving at the proper limit 80kph - So how is it decided which car was speeding?
    If any other person was at the side of the road taking photos of oncoming traffic with a flashing camera, it would be considered a hazard and dangerous and they would be arrested for causing a nuisance to traffic.
    BTW - I was travelling outbound on the N4 on Wed night and saw the flash go off (Gatso was parked after the bus shelter at Liffey Valley) I was biking it at the time and the cars in front of me braked, but luckily I had left enough space in front.
    There must be guidelines by the powers that be in using these gatso flashes on oncoming traffic....then again....


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    #58
    antomorro-sei
    Registered Users Posts: 1,969 ✭✭✭antomorro-sei


    OldmanMondeo wrote: »
    Won't take long, work van got flashed Friday 27th, Issued Tuesday 1st, received in office Thursday 3rd...


    I got flashed by it about a six or seven weeks ago, but still havn't recieved anything.


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    #59
    a_v525
    Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭a_v525


    Does it even need to flash??? A gatso was parked up outside St.James's Gate on the quay going to Heuston at approx 8.40 am two days this week & it was morningtime & the camera still flashed!!! Why does it need to flash in the middle of the day??? Flashes are unnecessary in the day because theyll illuminate nothing.

    Also, anyone spot that the side windows of the cabin on Gatsos are whited-out?? Surely thats illegal as the tint has to let in like 70% light?


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    #60
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,895 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    It doesn't need to flash but a flash can help it. It may not help during the day but it can alert drivers of its presence and that they have just been caught!
    I went by one in the same place as you around Jan/Feb IIRC and was at the time over the limit. Needless to say, it flashed. However, I think I was saved (nothing ever arrived in the post) by the fact that there was a dickhead on my tail along the quays who suddently decided to undertake when we were within range. My assumption is that the garda evaluating the scene decided to get the driver who was obviously more dangerous than I was.

    As for drivers slamming on the brakes when a van comes into sight:
    * if you are under the speed limit then you have no reason to brake
    * there are loads of vans parked at the side of roads (fair enough not as many on motorways!) - if you need to jam on for them all then you are the danger and not the fact that a van to your front left is sitting there motionless
    * if you spend any amount of time on the likes ot the M50/N4 & M4/N7 & M7 yuou will know that there are quite a few unmarked cars patrolling (e.g. the one I recently posted about)


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    #61
    I.S.T.
    Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭I.S.T.


    rohatch wrote: »
    You wouldn't be getting in those situations, thats the whole point.

    You can't control what happens with other motorists on the road. What if there was a vehicle approaching you with failed breaks and you need to move out of the way fast?


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