Gatso's vans are dangerous

OldmanMondeo

Yip, Comming into work this morning over the M50, seen a white van at the N7 junction, think to myself is it or is it not? Just as I got near enough to see it the fecking thing flashes right in my eyes (and no not at me as I was well under the limit), lucky I wasn't blinded.

These things should be banned....:D

neilthefunkeone

It Blinded you?? Was it pitch black dark at the time??
Had one flash behind me once.. didnt think it was any worse than a flash of the headlights..

Seth Brundle

I saw it from about 200m and managed to make sure that I was under the limit (not that I'd be speeding anyway)

biko

Cars are dangerous, not vans

AugustusMaximus

Gatso Vans being hidden could potentially cause a massive pileup on a motorway due to drivers slamming on the brakes when they see it at last minute.

Of course they're dangerous.

neilthefunkeone

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Gatso Vans being hidden could potentially cause a massive pileup on a motorway due to drivers slamming on the brakes when they see it at last minute.

Of course they're dangerous.

If they are slamming on their brakes that means they were speeding or just terrible drivers.. Each fact on their own will cause a pileup!!!!

pokerface_me

Magnus wrote: »

Cars are dangerous, not vans

What a stupid comment.

R.O.R

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Yip, Comming into work this morning over the M50, seen a white van at the N7 junction, think to myself is it or is it not? Just as I got near enough to see it the fecking thing flashes right in my eyes (and no not at me as I was well under the limit), lucky I wasn't blinded.

These things should be banned....:D

You think that's bad!

I was once flashed by a forward facing camera about 11.30pm, on an unlit B-Road in the UK, somewhere around the Northampton area while on my way to Silverstone.

Imagine the flash from a fixed camera that you usually see in your rear view, straight in you face when everything else (except the bit illuminated by your headlights) is pitch black. Hadn't a clue what it was at first - could have been aliens landing for all I knew.

Never heard anything else from it (in a rental car), and they removed the forward facing cameras soon after because they are damn dangerous. Took a good few minutes before my eyes adjusted back to darkness.

AugustusMaximus

neilthefunkeone wrote: »

If they are slamming on their brakes that means they were speeding or just terrible drivers.. Each fact on their own will cause a pileup!!!!

While the positioning of a Gatso Van and a person speeding could be held equally as the cause of an accident in this case, the hiding of Gatso vans is a potentially reckless action by the authorities.

The purpose of speed cameras is to stop speeding. Placing sign posts warning of a camera ahead will have a similar effect of reducing speeding but that won't come with the risk of causing a major pileup.

robtri

neilthefunkeone wrote: »

If they are slamming on their brakes that means they were speeding or just terrible drivers.. Each fact on their own will cause a pileup!!!!

and people would rather blame the Gatso van as being the problem, not their own lack of ability to drive correctly

Seth Brundle

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Gatso Vans being hidden could potentially cause a massive pileup on a motorway due to drivers slamming on the brakes when they see it at last minute.

Of course they're dangerous.

On this occasion, the van was not hidden. It was parked at the edge of the motorway on the hard shoulder and visible for all to see.
As I approached it, I didn't see any cars braking.

WacoKid

robtri wrote: »

and people would rather blame the Gatso van as being the problem, not their own lack of ability to drive correctly

thats not the point here

Anan1

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Placing sign posts warning of a camera ahead will have a similar effect of reducing speeding but that won't come with the risk of causing a major pileup.

If cameras are always signposted in advance then drivers will reasonably assume that no sign = no camera. The deterrent effect of hidden speed traps will be gone.

robtri

WacoKid wrote: »

thats not the point here

see post 5 and 6......

Redsoxfan

Wouldn't an average speed camera type system work better on the M50?

Does the area where this van is normally positioned have any statistics to suggest it's a black spot or risk area (I can't recall what the Gardai/RSA terminology is....)

Traffic was more sluggish than normal in all lanes on approach to the GATSO this morning but sped up again immediately afterwards.

Can the camera catch all 4 lanes from where it is stationed?

rohatch

simple solution

if you get flashed and blinded by a forward flash just drive into the van

Absurdum

rohatch wrote: »

simple solution

if you get flashed and blinded by a forward flash just drive into the van

might be a little painful!

antomorro-sei

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Traffic was more sluggish than normal in all lanes on approach to the GATSO this morning but sped up again immediately afterwards.

This ALWAYS happens at the start of the M7 just after Naas when the Gardaí speedcheckers are there! I'd imagine they catch very few there.


Off Topic, sort of, sorry!

OldmanMondeo

Cans of worms opened. I was only taken the mick out of the flash in my face. I was surprised to see the van there as usually in the morning traffic is queing on the slip road and crawls along, no chance of getting done for speeding as the line of sight would eb blocked by slow moving traffic.

I.S.T.

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Cans of worms opened. I was only taken the mick out of the flash in my face. I was surprised to see the van there as usually in the morning traffic is queing on the slip road and crawls along, no chance of getting done for speeding as the line of sight would eb blocked by slow moving traffic.

Did it really flash? AFAIK they don't usually.

ytareh

Once saw a motorcyclist crash as a result of one of these 'parked vans' on a wet road with other motorists slamming on to avoid being fined for making reasonable progress on the N4 westbound after the Foxhunter pub.The green Transit skulked off immediately no doubt shamed or nervous...

Anan1

ytareh wrote: »

Once saw a motorcyclist crash as a result of one of these 'parked vans' on a wet road with other motorists slamming on to avoid being fined for making reasonable progress on the N4 westbound after the Foxhunter pub.The green Transit skulked off immediately no doubt shamed or nervous...

How did the camera van make the motorbike crash?

antomorro-sei

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

Did it really flash? AFAIK they don't usually.

I've seen it flash plenty of times, but its not that bright to be fair. Can't see how it'd make someone crash

pokerface_me

Anan1 wrote: »

How did the camera van make the motorbike crash?

Imagine that type of comment from a mod. Yes its people's driving and there ability to control there motor but if the green van wasn't there, people wouldn't be jamming on the brakes would they.

I drive for a living and see this type of behaviour day in day out, and less experienced drivers panic like hell even if they are doing way under the limit. I've seen people hit there brakes and cross 3 lanes of traffic in a panic, if the van wasn't there the other lives of the people in the other 2 lanes wouldn't be put at risk, regardless of speed.

delly

I have seen threads here and there about speed vans, fish in a barrel, dangerously parked etc. etc. So here and now i've decided to offer up my idea on speed traps and a simple but very effective way of doing it.

Say a gatso van is setting up for a four hour period on for example the M2, which I happen to drive everyday. Now just before this speed trap becomes active, you have one of those mobile flashing signs, usually seen when roadworks are underway. On this sign you state in big flashing lights; "GUARANTEED SPEED TRAP WITHIN THE NEXT 10 KM'S". You then park the van somewhere along the 10 KM's.
The net result of this plan would be that you have practically every driver keeping to the speedlimit for most of the 10 KM's, which is better than just slowing down for 300 metres, and the other effect is you don't have drivers jamming on as they get a fright by seeing the van. Once the speedcheck is done, turn off the sign, so drivers will learn that once they see it, they know they will defo pass a speedtrap.

The other effect from this however is that you would have a large drop in revenue, but safety is the priority is it not?

pokerface_me

delly wrote: »

I have seen threads here and there about speed vans, fish in a barrel, dangerously parked etc. etc. So here and now i've decided to offer up my idea on speed traps and a simple but very effective way of doing it.

Say a gatso van is setting up for a four hour period on for example the M2, which I happen to drive everyday. Now just before this speed trap becomes active, you have one of those mobile flashing signs, usually seen when roadworks are underway. On this sign you state in big flashing lights; "GUARANTEED SPEED TRAP WITHIN THE NEXT 10 KM'S". You then park the van somewhere along the 10 KM's.
The net result of this plan would be that you have practically every driver keeping to the speedlimit for most of the 10 KM's, which is better than just slowing down for 300 metres, and the other effect is you don't have drivers jamming on as they get a fright by seeing the van. Once the speedcheck is done, turn off the sign, so drivers will learn that once they see it, they know they will defo pass a speedtrap.

The other effect from this however is that you would have a large drop in revenue, but safety is the priority is it not?

Excellent post and a very good idea. But i don't think safety is an issue, Anan doesn't understand how a dangerously parked gasto van would cause any problems at all, God forbid a crash or loss of life.

Anan1

pokerface_me wrote: »

Imagine that type of comment from a mod. Yes its people's driving and there ability to control there motor but if the green van wasn't there, people wouldn't be jamming on the brakes would they.

I drive for a living and see this type of behaviour day in day out, and less experienced drivers panic like hell even if they are doing way under the limit. I've seen people hit there brakes and cross 3 lanes of traffic in a panic, if the van wasn't there the other lives of the people in the other 2 lanes wouldn't be put at risk, regardless of speed.

That's an explanation of how driver incompetence caused the crash. Thing is, you said that the camera van caused the crash. Perhaps, after you've taken a few deep breaths, you could explain that to me.

antomorro-sei

Quick question, how much revenue to speed traps and the likes make? Roughly...

pokerface_me

Anan1 wrote: »

That's an explanation of how driver incompetence caused the crash. Thing is, you said that the camera van caused the crash. Perhaps, after you've taken a few deep breaths, you could explain that to me.

As explained to you before, the less experienced or competent drivers on our roads panic like fcuk when they see a gatso van even if they are way under the speed limit, its human nature unfortunately and we are not all perfect.

Remove the distraction and you remove the danger to loss of life. Not a money making solution but common sense.

ps...i never said anything caused a crash.. you have become distracted its human nature

OldmanMondeo

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

Did it really flash? AFAIK they don't usually.

It sure did, Just as I was straining my eyes to see if it there was a camera or not. Forgot my glasses this morning, got the full flash straight into the eyes...

Anan1

pokerface_me wrote: »

As explained to you before, the less experienced or competent drivers on our roads panic like fcuk when they see a gatso van even if they are way under the speed limit, its human nature unfortunately and we are not all perfect.

Remove the distraction and you remove the danger to loss of life. Not a money making solution but common sense.

The less experienced or competent drivers panic when they see anything unexpected. The solution is proper training/testing/enforcement. Or do you think that we should do away with marked Garda cars too, on the basis that they might give someone who's not fit to drive a fright?

rohatch

Just ensure new cars are limited electronically to the speed limit.

pokerface_me

Anan1 wrote: »

The less experienced or competent drivers panic when they see anything unexpected. The solution is proper training/testing/enforcement. Or do you think that we should do away with marked Garda cars too, on the basis that they might give someone who's not fit to drive a fright?

Cut backs all over the place and you want extra training/testing/enforcement. Get with the times man.

Ahh your right i'm wrong, no point in arguing with a Mod, normally ends up in a ban for the person that dares to question.

Capt'n Midnight

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Gatso Vans being hidden could potentially cause a massive pileup on a motorway due to drivers slamming on the brakes when they see it at last minute.

Of course they're dangerous.

Of course they're dangerous.

by they you mean drivers slamming on don't you = 5 penalty points + court appearance for dangerous driving




Most motorists break the law, but somehow imagine they are doing nothing wrong. Putting average speed cameras on the M50 60kph road works

then do a cross reference between the drivers and their licenses, anyone with a provisional will have to explain why they were on the M50




and yes the private speed cameras will be happening

pokerface_me

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Of course they're dangerous.

by they you mean drivers slamming on don't you = 5 penalty points + court appearance for dangerous driving

Didn't know you could get 5 penalty points for hitting the brakes or end up in court or be done for dangerous driving.....all seems a bit extreme to me. Must remember that the next time a kid runs out in front of me.

Anan1

pokerface_me wrote: »

Cut backs all over the place and you want extra training/testing/enforcement. Get with the times man.

Your argument that we get rid of GATSO vans on the basis that they might frighten the incompetent is quite simply ridiculous. I've already asked you whether you would get rid of marked Garda cars for the same reason and you've yet to answer the question. As I see it, any driver who can't deal with a distraction that's not even on the carriageway shouldn't be behind the wheel in the first place.

pokerface_me wrote: »

Ahh your right i'm wrong, no point in arguing with a Mod, normally ends up in a ban for the person that dares to question.

Sounds to me like you've made a point you can't substantiate and now you're looking for a way out. Well you won't be using me - i've had many, many disagreements in my time here without ever having banned someone over them. As long as you're not breaking the rules re personal abuse, etc, a mod can't ban you. So go ahead, if you have a point make it.

Capt'n Midnight

pokerface_me wrote: »

Didn't know you could get 5 penalty points for hitting the brakes or end up in court or be done for dangerous driving.....all seems a bit extreme to me. Must remember that the next time a kid runs out in front of me.

:rolleyes:

There is a difference between trying to save a life as instead of putting others at risk

pokerface_me

Anan1 wrote: »

As I see it, any driver who can't deal with a distraction that's not even on the carriageway shouldn't be behind the wheel in the first place.

Yep and there are thousands of them behind the wheel in this country, if thats your answer fine but we all don't live in the little idealistic world you do. Just because they shouldn't be there doesn't mean they aren't there.

Anan1

pokerface_me wrote: »

Yep and there are thousands of them behind the wheel in this country, if thats your answer fine but we all don't live in the little idealistic world you do. Just because they shouldn't be there doesn't mean they aren't there.

It makes it rather difficult to have a reasoned discussion when you persistently avoid answering my question. For the third time, should we also get rid of marked Garda cars on the basis that they might also frighten these people? How about other drivers coming too close? Perhaps we need to take it further and provide each and every one of these incompetents with a protective cordon around them lest they see anything that might distract them? Or is this too ridiculous even for you?

ceepeedee

pokerface_me wrote: »

Just because they shouldn't be there doesn't mean they aren't there.

Same argument could be applied to Gatsos.

pokerface_me

Sorry Anan been a bit of a dope last few posts had the mother of all days.

Back to the gatso vans. In an Ideal world every one would do the limit and there would be no need for Gatso vans. Unfortunatly people in this country not all of them, don't give a monkeys.

Gatso van is on the side of the road driver jams on>>>>FACT

Gatso van NOT on the side of the road, driver doesn't jam on>>>>FACT

Now if you can get get 5 points and a court apperance for jamming on its considered dangerous driving, the fact is the presence of the Gatso van caused the dangerous driving do you agree with me or not.

I drive 3000kms a week 520-550km a day, i see all sorts and i'm very experienced on the road to tell you that these vans are a hazard as are people who speed.

Our objective here is to save lives, but i feel there objective is revenue nothing more nothing less. The car has sped past at 130kms an hour and a fine arrives with some points 3 weeks later who's life does that save.

BlackWizard

They definitely are a potential hazard. But I don't think the potential hazard will ever realise in the form of a direct accident.

It will cause tail backs and undoubtedly someone will be caught changing the radio channel and rear ending someone. But I wouldn't put that down to the speed camera.

I.S.T.

Anan1 wrote: »

That's an explanation of how driver incompetence caused the crash. Thing is, you said that the camera van caused the crash. Perhaps, after you've taken a few deep breaths, you could explain that to me.

Probably in the same way the RSA harp on about speed contributing to crashes. The speed may not actually cause the crash (it could be a badly engineered road for example) but the speed was a factor. In this case the Green Gatso van was a factor as it has the effect of causing drivers to break instinctively when they see it.

I.S.T.

rohatch wrote: »

Just ensure new cars are limited electronically to the speed limit.

So what happens if you are in a situation where you need to increase your speed to avoid a crash or dangerous situation?

Anan1

pokerface_me wrote: »

Sorry Anan been a bit of a dope last few posts had the mother of all days.

Back to the gatso vans. In an Ideal world every one would do the limit and there would be no need for Gatso vans. Unfortunatly people in this country not all of them, don't give a monkeys.

Gatso van is on the side of the road driver jams on>>>>FACT

Gatso van NOT on the side of the road, driver doesn't jam on>>>>FACT

Now if you can get get 5 points and a court apperance for jamming on its considered dangerous driving, the fact is the presence of the Gatso van caused the dangerous driving do you agree with me or not.

I drive 3000kms a week 520-550km a day, i see all sorts and i'm very experienced on the road to tell you that these vans are a hazard as are people who speed.

No problem. I'm afraid I don't agree that it's the van that caused the driver to jam on. The roads are chock-full of unexpected developments, and the GATSO van isn't even on the carriageway! In any case, the only way around what you're saying is camouflaged cameras, and I don't think any of us want that.

pokerface_me wrote: »

Our objective here is to save lives, but i feel there objective is revenue nothing more nothing less. The car has sped past at 130kms an hour and a fine arrives with some points 3 weeks later who's life does that save.

Penalties definitely change drivers behaviour, there's no question about that. For example, I tend to drive at 140-180km/h on the M4/M6, and have no points at present. If I were to pick up say six points for speeding do you think i'd slow down? Dead right I would.;)

I.S.T.

Anan1 wrote: »

No problem. I'm afraid I don't agree that it's the van that caused the driver to jam on. The roads are chock-full of unexpected developments, and the GATSO van isn't even on the carriageway!

Of course it's the gatso van that cause drivers to jam on. Why else to all the break lights ahead of me light up light a Christmas tree when there is one parked at the site of the road?

Anan1

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

Of course it's the gatso van that cause drivers to jam on. Why else to all the break lights ahead of me light up light a Christmas tree when there is one parked at the site of the road?

I'm sure you know that the slightest touch of the brakes will bring on the brake lights. I'll get legal if I see one, but without endangering other road users. I know some people jam on for vans in the same way that some people jam on for Garda cars, but they don't do it because of the van - they do it because they can't drive.

rohatch

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

So what happens if you are in a situation where you need to increase your speed to avoid a crash or dangerous situation?

You wouldn't be getting in those situations, thats the whole point.

msg11

I got flashed, massive flash in my face.

Bit of a joke really. Went back to see it in action, Made €1240 In the 20Mins I was watching it.

Mainly from taxi drivers.

After a flash, you have cars jamming on the breaks, people flying from lane one to lane two. Too avoid a crash. Put on the road to make money & I can see it leading to a serious accident. Then again, its not for me too decided.

BTW, its a new sneaky one down in fairview as your heading towards town, just after the bridge, the van was unmarked, parked behind another van, also noted it was only taking pictures of cars in the 1st & 2nd lane.

Was in the process of changing lanes cause of some donkey doing about 30K, got a bit happy with my foot and then a flash, which I though was lighting hitting the ground.

KamiKazi

Gatso van sitting on the N4 this morning, it's ridiculous.

three lanes + bus lane, straight enough road in good condition, no bad weather conditions yet an 80km/h speed limit.

Saving lives indeed :rolleyes:

Hoffmans

these things been round for years usually thrown out around xmas to boost the dongut-munchers detection stats in places where they will grt maximum revenue eg ,where a 100k limit leads into a 50 or 60 you'll see them usually on nice long stretches of carriageway...

never in built up areas where pedstrians or kids at play may venture on to the road ,the cops dont care about these people, its only about just making a quick buck off the already over taxed over insured....:rolleyes:motorists