Whos in the wrong here? (m50 3-lane sys)

jape

I drive to work every day on the m50, and there are always people cruising along in the middle lane for whatever reason. Anyway I usually go faster than them (not breaking the speed limit) but I overtake them on the inside (leftmost) lane (which is the lane I am driving anyway). I used to think they were goin too slow for the middle lane, but then I remember years ago from my driving instructor that you should never overtake on the left.

Thoughts / opinions ?

newmills

This one gets me as well...i drive a small van and usually sit on the inside lane doing about 60-80kms per hour..dependant on traffic conditions..i've "undertaken" vehicles and had them pull in behind me, flashing their lights and sitting up my arse!!
I'm not an aggressive driver..it's a bloody small van and diesel costs aren't getting any less so i tip along at a reasonable pace..what are you supposed to do? Drive out to the 3rd lane then drive back across to the 1st lane??

jape

yeah that's what I am tryna find out ! Anyone else ?

Victor

Both are wrong.

potsy11

My understanding is left is slow middle is for overtaking slow lane and right lane is for overtaking the middle lane.

If you go to europe nobody sits in the fast / Right lane unless you are on the power. If you do they will sit on your ass flasing their lights until you get out of the way.

i too take the M50 from the N32 and drivers just sit in right and middle lane with the slow lane (in some instances) completely free.

It bugs the **** out of me.

CR 7

The problem is that according to the rules of the road, you should never undertake. The rules are made with never exceeding the speed limit in mind, the defence that you only undertook because you were driving at the speed limit and the other car was going slower is ridiculous. Be glad that they're only sitting in the middle lane and you still have the opportunity to overtake.

demag

Legally you shouldn't , but I join the m50 at blanchardstown every morning and you see all the retards going straight out into the right hand lanes as soon as they can. I stay in the far left lane and sail past them all.

TheNog

My opinion is that you should use the left lane as much as possible until you come to slower traffic. You can move into the middle lane to overtake and can stay there until you have overtaken the traffic and move back into the left lane. The right lane should be used for traffic travelling faster than those in the left and middle lane.

newmills

It's all well and good to say don't undertake..but what the hell are you supposed to do if you are tipping along at 60kms per hour in the left lane and someone is in the middle lane doing 50?? Drive across to the outside lane and then back across to the first lane or just maintain 60kms and stay where you are??
What are the legal implications here??

stepbar

In general, people are dumb when it comes to motorway driving. If someone doesn't understand that the right lanes are for overtaking then I make their mind up for them fairly quickly by undertaking. It's a real pet hate for which I have no tolerance.

Alanstrainor

newmills wrote: »

It's all well and good to say don't undertake..but what the hell are you supposed to do if you are tipping along at 60kms per hour in the left lane and someone is in the middle lane doing 50?? Drive across to the outside lane and then back across to the first lane or just maintain 60kms and stay where you are??
What are the legal implications here??

Well you would both be in the wrong in that situation, you would be undertaking, and the person sitting in the middle lane is not keeping left.

dublinhead

Do the police ever enforce the law on undertaking? Anyone ever get stopped for it?

BrianD3

If you are in the "weaving" lane that runs along parts of the M50 then it is OK to pass on the left. If you are in Lane 1, then it's not OK to pass middle lane road hogs on the left but it is understandable why you'd want to do so.

3 lane motorways in this country are a shambles as it seems that 90% of drivers haven't a clue what lane to drive in. The result is that law abiding drivers end up getting frustrated with having to change lanes 4 times to overtake one middle lane hog. The other "options" are join the herd and become a middle lane hog yourself, or blatantly break the law and undertake everything using the empty lane 1.

newmills

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Well you would both be in the wrong in that situation, you would be undertaking, and the person sitting in the middle lane is not keeping left.

I understand that undertaking is illegal but i've found instances on the m50 where i've been on the inside lane and at 60-70km/p/h i've been faster than the middle lane..however the middle lane is very busy making it difficult to get into it..should i slow right down to 40-50kms/p/h with my indicator on to get into the middle lane (thus slowing the inside lane down to a crawl) or should i continue at 60-70kms/p/h??
I know the rules dictate that undertaking is illegal but does common sense prevail??

jape

So the answer is both parties are in the wrong ?

Does anyone have any links to road traffic legislation to clear this up once and for all !

I think a tv/radio ad campaign is needed to advice people on how to drive on these new motorways. Face it, no driving instructor will bring a learner onto the motorway, and nobody ever gets driving instruction after they pass their test.

antodeco

dublinhead wrote: »

Do the police ever enforce the law on undertaking? Anyone ever get stopped for it?

Yup! Even though I was exiting around 20 seconds ahead :rolleyes:

Cicero

Here you go: I always stick to speed limit in the middle lane, making the assumption that left lane is for slower vehicles and right lane for overtaking only- appeciate other drivers may not be so informed

http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/8342-0.pdf

Lane discipline
The normal “keep left” rule applies. This means that you stay in the left hand lane unless you are overtaking. The outside lane is for overtaking only and a vehicle should move back into the inner lane when the overtaking manoeuvre is completed. Unless traffic density is such that all lanes are moving in queues, the right-most lane should only be used to overtake or to accommodate merging traffic. Once you’ve finished overtaking move back to your left and allow faster traffic coming form behind to pass by.
In a three-lane carriageway you may stay in the centre lane while there is slower moving traffic on Lane 1; a goods vehicle with a design gross weight exceeding 3,500 kilograms, a passenger vehicle that has accommodation for more than 8 passengers or a vehicle drawing a trailer, horsebox, caravan etc should not use the right-hand lane of a carriageway next to the central median (the outside lane) except in exceptional circumstances when it is not possible to proceed in the inner lane due to an obstruction.
Overtaking
Overtake

3DataModem

This is covered in the rules of the road.

There are two situations when you can pass someone on the left;

(1) if they are turning right

(2) if you are in slow moving traffic and the left lane is moving faster than the right

Rule 2 seems to cover this... so passing them is fine but if you pull in in front of them afterward near in mind this is a dangerous maneuver.

CR 7

3DataModem wrote: »

This is covered in the rules of the road.

There are two situations when you can pass someone on the left;

(1) if they are turning right

(2) if you are in slow moving traffic and the left lane is moving faster than the right

Rule 2 seems to cover this... so passing them is fine but if you pull in in front of them afterward near in mind this is a dangerous maneuver.

In what way does staying at around the speed limit constitute slow moving traffic?

zilog_jones

Cicero wrote: »

In a three-lane carriageway you may stay in the centre lane while there is slower moving traffic on Lane 1;

But the problem is most of the time this is not the case (from my experience on the N7 and N4 anyway) - the inside lane is usually relatively empty, and slow vans, vehicles with trailers, artics, etc. all go in the middle lane with everyone else.

I usually stay in the inside lane driving at the limit if there is a long queue in the middle going slower than limit - as 3DataModem said the ROTR gives the impression this is OK to do. In many cases it would be hard/dangerous to get to the outside lane to overtake anyway.

squod

I'm fairly sure the opperators should be doing their job on this one. If I'm paying three euro to use a road I expect it to be in good condition. Not over-run by lunatics in random lanes. I've played games of Mario cart that had better organisation.

Some day there's gonna be a serious accident, I hope I'm not there when there is.

DublinDilbert

newmills wrote: »

It's all well and good to say don't undertake..but what the hell are you supposed to do if you are tipping along at 60kms per hour in the left lane and someone is in the middle lane doing 50?? Drive across to the outside lane and then back across to the first lane or just maintain 60kms and stay where you are??
What are the legal implications here??

Our rules of the road will have to be updated. They were written at a much different time, when we only had 2 lanes in each direction. Parts of the M50 have 4 lanes in each direction, so the no "undertaking" rule no longer makes sense. Also if you look at the new N3/M50 junction layout there'll be roads/ramps every where, it will be hard to know whats considered the inside lane.

There should be no safety issue with undertaking either, as you should always check your blind spots correctly before changing lanes. This is the way it works in many other countries.

Victor

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Also if you look at the new N3/M50 junction layout there'll be roads/ramps every where, it will be hard to know whats considered the inside lane.

Its the one on the left, unless there is a solid(ish) line to your left.

ART6

I do most of my motorway driving in the UK on business, and there undertaking is normal because all three lanes are occupied. In reality, a motorway is at least three lanes. If we are to abide rigidly to the rule that the LH lane is for driving in, and the middle and outer lanes are for overtaking, then a motorway is actually a single carriageway to all intents and purposes. That, to me at least after almost fifty years of driving all over the world, is nonsense.

Having said that, undertaking is dangerous, mainly because the idiots hugging the other lanes only look in their rear view and right hand mirrors (if they bother to use mirrors at all). So we have potentially a couple of tonnes of metal travelling at 100 clicks with the driver looking the wrong way. Such people shouldn't be on motorways in the first place. Therefore I can see the time when passing the driving test only allows you to drive on N roads downwards, but you have to pass another test to use motorways.

DublinDilbert

ART6 wrote: »

I do most of my motorway driving in the UK on business, and there undertaking is normal because all three lanes are occupied.

Its the norm in a lot of countries, i hold a canadian licence and its the norm there too... if someone doesn't check their blind spot when doing a lane change in either direction they are the one that are at fault.

The person on the inside lane might not be undertaking, but traveling at the same speed, joined the motor way at an on ramp. So if someone doesn't check their blind spot, it can still cause an accident.

ART6 wrote: »

Having said that, undertaking is dangerous, mainly because the idiots hugging the other lanes only look in their rear view and right hand mirrors (if they bother to use mirrors at all). So we have potentially a couple of tonnes of metal travelling at 100 clicks with the driver looking the wrong way. Such people shouldn't be on motorways in the first place. Therefore I can see the time when passing the driving test only allows you to drive on N roads downwards, but you have to pass another test to use motorways.

I would agrree that the irish driver training system is completely out-dated, and motor ways were never factored into it. For example a driving instructor can not take a student on a motor way to teach them how to use it properly :eek: which is just stupid.

Graduated licencing would be a great idea. Before the first test your not allowed on a motorway. After the first test your allowed on the motorway with your instructor/tester.

But its Ireland nothing will happen and the government are just going to ad an extra 500 stupid questions to the pool of theory test questions (many of which already have errors in them) and say they are doing something about driver training!

kazul

FFS, mods can this be treated like foglights please?
OP seems like a troll. This issue is covered on here nearly every second day.
Next person who comes on with a similar question should be tracked down and have their license revoked.

rccaulfield

Both of you in the wrong on paper! Middle lane hoggers are as old as the 3 lane system- should be clamped down but traffic cops have bigger fish to fry these days!

Tragedy

Cicero wrote: »

Here you go: I always stick to speed limit in the middle lane, making the assumption that left lane is for slower vehicles and right lane for overtaking only- appeciate other drivers may not be so informed

http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/8342-0.pdf

Lane discipline
The normal “keep left” rule applies. This means that you stay in the left hand lane unless you are overtaking. The outside lane is for overtaking only and a vehicle should move back into the inner lane when the overtaking manoeuvre is completed. Unless traffic density is such that all lanes are moving in queues, the right-most lane should only be used to overtake or to accommodate merging traffic. Once you’ve finished overtaking move back to your left and allow faster traffic coming form behind to pass by.
In a three-lane carriageway you may stay in the centre lane while there is slower moving traffic on Lane 1; a goods vehicle with a design gross weight exceeding 3,500 kilograms, a passenger vehicle that has accommodation for more than 8 passengers or a vehicle drawing a trailer, horsebox, caravan etc should not use the right-hand lane of a carriageway next to the central median (the outside lane) except in exceptional circumstances when it is not possible to proceed in the inner lane due to an obstruction.
Overtaking
Overtake

You're in the wrong so.

It says you MAY stay in the centre lane WHILE there is slower traffic on Lane 1.

You understand may and while, yeah?

Alanstrainor

kazul wrote: »

FFS, mods can this be treated like foglights please?
OP seems like a troll. This issue is covered on here nearly every second day.
Next person who comes on with a similar question should be tracked down and have their license revoked.

If you have a problem with the OP's post then report it, wingeing about it on thread is not on. And back seat modding is against the charter.

Bonito

i plan ahead, if i'm in the middle lane and my exit is coming up ill stay there til i pass the exit before mine (so not to clog up traffic merging onto the M50) then when all traffic has entered the motorway i check if im clear,signal and move into left lane, that way im not being stupid and overtaking anybody and then suddenly cutting across lanes of traffic at the last minute to get to my exit and im not going to slow anyone up because im exiting the motorway, good habits to get into, no point flooring it down the motorway, we all get there in the end.

zod

Australia .. signs up everywhere with an on the spot fine for those who dont stay left .. *sigh*

Seth Brundle

squod wrote: »

I'm fairly sure the opperators should be doing their job on this one. If I'm paying three euro to use a road I expect it to be in good condition. Not over-run by lunatics in random lanes. I've played games of Mario cart that had better organisation.

Some day there's gonna be a serious accident, I hope I'm not there when there is.

The M50 toll is collected by eflow for the government (remember Bertie "I won it on the gigis" Ahern threw €600 million at it).
The operators job is to collect the money and not to teach people how to drive.

DubTony

Bonito wrote: »

i plan ahead, if i'm in the middle lane and my exit is coming up ill stay there til i pass the exit before mine (so not to clog up traffic merging onto the M50) then when all traffic has entered the motorway i check if im clear,signal and move into left lane, that way im not being stupid and overtaking anybody and then suddenly cutting across lanes of traffic at the last minute to get to my exit and im not going to slow anyone up because im exiting the motorway, good habits to get into, no point flooring it down the motorway, we all get there in the end.

Nice ... and while you're moron-ing along in the middle lane "so as not to impede traffic coming onto the motorway" there are cars behind you forced into lane 3 which in turn slows the traffic in that lane.

Move the f*ck over and let the cars coming onto the motorway adjust their speed. If they don't you can overtake them or ... hey ... you could even slow down, it seems you're not in a hurry anyway.

DubTony

It's all about education and attitude. I had it drilled into me when I learnt to drive that on a dual carriageway (do we really need motorway training ?) I should stay in the left lane and only move out to overtake. Then move back in and get out of the way of faster traffic. This is simple stuff, it's not f*cking rocket science. It became part of my psyche while driving. So much so, that when I drove in America a few years ago and was advised to "pick a lane and stay in it", it felt physically wrong to drive along in any lane but the inside one.

One of the problems here is peoples perceptions of distance and time. I've spoken to friends about this and some of them are of the opinion that there's no point in pulling in when there's a car 100 metres ahead that is going slower. What seems to be ignored is that in the time it takes to catch and pass that other car, quite a few cars could have gotten past if the driver had pulled over.

BTW, what's with the trucks hogging the middle lanes on the M50 and N7? FFS, I thought these fellahs were supposed to be professionals.

MagicMarker

I don't use the 3 lane sections of the M50 regularly, and when I first started using it I admit I didn't have a clue on which lane to be in other than knowing the far right lane is for overtaking.

It confused the hell out of me that everyone was sitting in the middle lane. It just didn't/doesn't make sense to me. Now I just stay in the inside lane and stick to a speed comfortable to me, if I end up undertaking a car in the middle lane then so be it, I'm not going to cut across two lanes and back just to overtake someone.

pippip

DubTony wrote: »

Nice ... and while you're moron-ing along in the middle lane "so as not to impede traffic coming onto the motorway" there are cars behind you forced into lane 3 which in turn slows the traffic in that lane.

Move the f*ck over and let the cars coming onto the motorway adjust their speed. If they don't you can overtake them or ... hey ... you could even slow down, it seems you're not in a hurry anyway.

Who said he is forcing anyone into lane 3. If he is doing the speed limit he is doing exactly what he is suppose to be doing.

By your logic every car on the motorway should be in lane 1 and lanes 2 and 3 should be for people who want to speed!

metrovelvet

You overtake on the right. The slower you are going the more to the left you should be.

Do the opposite in Europe and America.

Do you guys not learn how to drive on a highway when you get lessons?

squod

metrovelvet wrote: »

You overtake on the right. The slower you are going the more to the left you should be.

Wow. Just wow!

Would you do that in yer test love?

pippip

metrovelvet wrote: »

You overtake on the right. The slower you are going the more to the left you should be.

Do the opposite in Europe and America.

Do you guys not learn how to drive on a highway when you get lessons?

Yes but in reality this equals all cars in lane 1!!!! So all cars on the motorway are to stay in lane 1. What do you suppose happens when merging traffic arrives and you have a few hundred cars all travelling in lane one.....you have cars in lane two and there you go we end up exactly as reality has it as long as you do the speed limit.

I think this is a case of common sense over rules of the road.

metrovelvet

pippip wrote: »

Yes but in reality this equals all cars in lane 1!!!! So all cars on the motorway are to stay in lane 1. What do you suppose happens when merging traffic arrives and you have a few hundred cars all travelling in lane one.....you have cars in lane two and there you go we end up exactly as reality has it as long as you do the speed limit.

I think this is a case of common sense over rules of the road.

They have to wait until there is a chance for them to get in, they cant expect people to move over.

LOL. I learned how to do that real fast from driving in france and california.

metrovelvet

squod wrote: »

Wow. Just wow!

Would you do that in yer test love?

I dont know what you mean, but I do object to you calling me love. Take it back and say you are sorry.

Rondolfus

Lane 1
The normal 'keep left' rule applies. Stay in this lane unless you are overtaking.


Lane 2
On a two-lane motorway, use this for overtaking only and move back into lane 1 when you have finished. You may also use this lane to accommodate traffic merging from the left.


On a three-lane motorway, you may stay in this centre lane while there is slower moving traffic in lane 1.


Lane 3
If you are travelling on a three-lane motorway, you must use this lane only if traffic in lanes 1 and 2 is moving in queues and you need to overtake or accommodate merging traffic. Once you've finished overtaking, move back to your left and allow faster traffic coming from behind to pass by.

squod

metrovelvet wrote: »

I dont know what you mean,

I know. Have you read any other post here ever? Or the ROTR?

metrovelvet wrote: »

The slower you are going the more to the left you should be.

pippip

metrovelvet wrote: »

They have to wait until there is a chance for them to get in, they cant expect people to move over.

LOL. I learned how to do that real fast from driving in france and california.

Your concept cannot work with volume on a motorway. It would end up with people stopped on the slips.

voteforpedro

Rondolfus wrote: »

Lane 1
The normal 'keep left' rule applies. Stay in this lane unless you are overtaking.


Lane 2
On a two-lane motorway, use this for overtaking only and move back into lane 1 when you have finished. You may also use this lane to accommodate traffic merging from the left.


On a three-lane motorway, you may stay in this centre lane while there is slower moving traffic in lane 1.


Lane 3
If you are travelling on a three-lane motorway, you must use this lane only if traffic in lanes 1 and 2 is moving in queues and you need to overtake or accommodate merging traffic. Once you've finished overtaking, move back to your left and allow faster traffic coming from behind to pass by.

this post is the one that makes most sense to me. if everyone read this there would be no problems:)
especially this!!!

"On a three-lane motorway, you may stay in this centre lane while there is SLOWER moving traffic in lane 1."

corktina

its OK to overtake on the inside at all times provided you check your mirrors for unmarked patrol cars and/or are driving a white van. Ignore bit about mirrors if you are driving a t*xi (expletive deleted).

Special rules apply to BMWs and SUVs..asak for details...:cool:

DubTony

pippip wrote: »

Who said he is forcing anyone into lane 3. If he is doing the speed limit he is doing exactly what he is suppose to be doing.

By your logic every car on the motorway should be in lane 1 and lanes 2 and 3 should be for people who want to speed overtake!

FYP.

That's exactly how it's designed to work. It's the job of the Gardai to deter speeding, and not for some gimp to decide that he'll stay in the "fast lane" because of those murdering speeders.

As for the BS arguments that "everyone would be in lane 1 and nobody could get onto the motorway", FFS... wake up children. If this is the sort of logic used by people who were supposedly trained to drive and actually passed a test, it's no wonder this thread was started.

pippip

DubTony wrote: »

FYP.

That's exactly how it's designed to work. It's the job of the Gardai to deter speeding, and not for some gimp to decide that he'll stay in the "fast lane" because of those murdering speeders.

As for the BS arguments that "everyone would be in lane 1 and nobody could get onto the motorway", FFS... wake up children. If this is the sort of logic used by people who were supposedly trained to drive and actually passed a test, it's no wonder this thread was started.

Mate, you haven't got a clue do you?
Hope to god I'm never on the M50 when your about if thats how you were trained to drive.

R.O.R

pippip wrote: »

Mate, you haven't got a clue do you?
Hope to god I'm never on the M50 when your about if thats how you were trained to drive.

I think you'll find that DubTony knows how to drive on a Motorway, and you need to lose the chip on your shoulder and either read the rules of the road, or take some advanced drived training.

It's drivers like you who cause traffic jams by staying in lane 2 because there may be something going slower than you at some point in lane 1.

pippip

R.O.R wrote: »

I think you'll find that DubTony knows how to drive on a Motorway, and you need to lose the chip on your shoulder and either read the rules of the road, or take some advanced drived training.

It's drivers like you who cause traffic jams by staying in lane 2 because there may be something going slower than you at some point in lane 1.

I don't have a chip on my shoulder. All the posts by DubTony seem to assume that everyone is going below the speed limit, and so are you. If i'm in the middle lane doing 100kph or 120kph (what ever the speed limit is) the only way I'm annoying anyone is if they want to speed. So if DubTony wants to speed thats fine but don't have a go at the rest of us obeying the speed limits and driving responsibly.

I understand your point of staying in the left hand lane but as I mentioned earlier this only works with low volume, so for the M50 thats from about 10pm through till 5am, any other time you'll be constantly having to move into the middle lane at every merger.

Bonito

DubTony has it spot on. If EVERYONE stayed in LANE 1 unless they NEEDED to OVERTAKE then lane 2 would be CLEAR for when the cars in lane 1 come up onto traffic MERGING onto the motorway. And in situations where traffic is heavy then those who have moved into lane 2 can then move into lane 3 to allow those into lane 2 to make way for the merging traffic, nobody has 2 jam on or slow down and there's no accidents. Bit of cop on and common sense saves lives. And obviously there's going to be alot more incidents and accidents on the M50 until it's completely revamped and completed. Simple matter of trial and error. Just because you use the M50 every single bloody day doesn't mean you can predict every other single drivers actions. Hence this is why you look well ahead and anticipate other driver actions. Obviously instead of showing adverts on how to overtake or how to use multi lane roundabouts they should be showing how to drive in mulit-lane traffic!