Handguns for sporting purposes on The 6 O'clock Phone In show, Q102

Greenacre

The subject of handguns for sporting purposes was discussed on the 6 o'clock phone in show yesterday on Q102.

Maybe somebody can link the podcast??

TMC121

Link to podcast
http://utv.vo.llnwd.net/o16/Q102/2009/11/18/181109The6OClockPhoneIn.mp3

Cass

I'm after listening to the entire podcast and i'm dumbfounded at the lack of knowledge people show towards firearm ownership. The "get rid of them all" attitude is ignorant and shortsighted. They genuinely believe ridding all firearms in the country will stop gun crime, and when faced with the fact the gun crime was still abundant when pistol ownership was not possible they simple igonre this fact.

Its a lack of gun education and reinforces my belief of having demostration days at various ranges to show and educate people on the requirements for gun ownership and what is involved with the sport.

On a seperate note i'm disappointed with some sport shooters inability to talk or explain their sport, while i'm also pleased that a few well articulated and informed sport shooters/firearm owners can come on and calmly and precisely explain our position and worries in relation to the new act. Well done lads.



[MOD NOTE]
Post edited following thread split.

CJhaughey

It is an attitude based on fear and ignorance and fostered in no small part by the "meeeja" attitude to firearms in general.
Lots of what people are informed by come from TV which is dominated by US programming hence the anti-gun bias shown by the uninformed.
The NGB's need to do more to show that shooting is a safe (100% record) sport and that it is not a sport full of nutters.
If those interviewees that were so anti-gun were shown around the ranges and given an education in responsible firearms usage then they might not be so quick to shout that guns are bad.
We need to publicise our successes in the shooting arena and not allow the media to demonise our sport.

PJ Hunter

city people , not a notion about rural life, easy button for the politicians. Olympic and hunters guns not a word, the farmers gun just about ok. no wonder townies recoil about everything

johngalway

PJ Hunter wrote: »

city people , not a notion about rural life, easy button for the politicians. Olympic and hunters guns not a word, the farmers gun just about ok. no wonder townies recoil about everything

That's not true for all city people in fairness, there are plenty of self serving assholes in the countryside too, unfortunately!

ivanthehunter

Why don't a few shooters contact Vincent Brown and let him invite some politicians and a few articulate shooters to join him on his show!

The whole law needs reform! No one will manage to counter the hand gun issue unless all the other issues are highlighted..

Lets face it- these radio shows are worrying..!


Also did anyone read the Irish shooter digest this month. There was a very good article in the first few pages about the real dangers of firearms with some interesting statistics.
well worth a read

PJ Hunter

johngalway wrote: »

That's not true for all city people in fairness, there are plenty of self serving assholes in the countryside too, unfortunately!

unfortunately! in this country (roi) city people know little or nothing about sport guns! criminals on the news and hollywood guns is about it. the rest of europe has clubs and a range just about near every town, hunting and target magazines in every corner shop!:o

ivanthehunter

CJhaughey wrote: »

If those interviewees that were so anti-gun were shown around the ranges and given an education in responsible firearms usage then they might not be so quick to shout that guns are bad.
.

Yes but we here are all suffering from preconceptions idealism yes we are!. Every one here has issues as to what types of hunting are suitable in their own opinion ever one knows my robing-Hud beliefs but again people here dismiss them at a glance because they find them unacceptable! Is this not the same Irish do-gooderism that was witnessed in the radio show!

Who will throw the first stone!!

Greenacre

I dont think it is fair to generalise about "city people", I know lots of people from the big smoke with legally held firearms.

The problem is of our own making, openness and education are key to any solution. I just hope its not too late.

PJ Hunter

Greenacre wrote: »

I dont think it is fair to generalise about "city people", I know lots of people from the big smoke with legally held firearms.

The problem is of our own making, openness and education are key to any solution. I just hope its not too late.

in fairness, theres politicians, lawyers, bankers and garda shooting in the sport, do a hour long special with some of them out front, ffs.:o

CJhaughey

ivanthehunter wrote: »

Yes but we here are all suffering from preconceptions idealism yes we are!. Every one here has issues as to what types of hunting are suitable in their own opinion ever one knows my robing-Hud beliefs but again people here dismiss them at a glance because they find them unacceptable! Is this not the same Irish do-gooderism that was witnessed in the radio show!

Who will throw the first stone!!

WTF?

ivanthehunter

CJhaughey wrote: »

WTF?

Once upon a time I proposed some other hunting options here that did not require a gun! Over 1 million animal harvested with it ever year and comparable injury rates to that of gun hunting.
but i was knocked back by people who had their own beliefs and TBH very few of them actually knew anything about it but yet they all had their opinions. It all reminds me of some of those ill informed people on the radio show!
It all goes to show that it is a lack of education aqnd not a lack of intelligence that is at the root of all these disputes.
Its this lack of knowledge that cause people to become infuriated. Despite the facts of firearm safety and the statical data from where such sound information is derived people here still insist on holding on to wives tales of dangerous guns and scare mongering and what they believe to be best practice.


FFS there is more chance that one of us will fall and split our heads open when getting in or out of the bath when compared to us getting mad cow disease. I might even think that mad cow is more prevalent than the chance of a firearms accident or bad domestic incident in which a licenced firearm is actual used.

ivanthehunter

PJ Hunter wrote: »

in fairness, theres politicians, lawyers, bankers and garda shooting in the sport, do a hour long special with some of them out front, ffs.:o

Yes they might be involved in the sport but what part!
target shooting-hunting-some might just be collectors or pure enthusiasts.
There is no real common bond within the gun ownership realm and here in the problem exists.
I put it to you that one group believes that they are more entitled than the next. Remember that not all firearm owners are shooters and not all firearm owners are hunters and that not all hunters are firearm owners.
We are a complex group and need to unite behind one name!

UNITE THE CLANS!!:o
#
I bid you welcome to the ultimate nanny state!:(

murph226

My god, just listened to it, CRINGE!

Will someone please go on and tell these people the difference between legally owned firearms and firearms used by criminals:rolleyes:

ivanthehunter

murph226 wrote: »

My god, just listened to it, CRINGE!

Will someone please go on and tell these people the difference between legally owned firearms and firearms used by criminals:rolleyes:

Hollywood sheep.. bahhh bahhhhh

Look I'll say it again, these ill informed self professed boffins are the same gob sheins that have attacked hunting and blood sports on the whole.

Welcome to mob rule and now we must stand united against them.....

I can see them at their coffee mornings (living the dream) trying to fathom any reason why some one would want to shoot a rabbit or a fox!!

Its gas that no one ever criticize the shooting of rats! its because these ill informed sods even despise these vermin, yet they'd love to hug foxes and rabbits. Don't forget that our politician are not much different either- in their views

rrpc

murph226 wrote: »

My god, just listened to it, CRINGE!

Will someone please go on and tell these people the difference between legally owned firearms and firearms used by criminals:rolleyes:

I thought I did

LB6

you did - but the fella that was on the same time as you insisted on calling them that W word even though it was explained to him in detail! Some people just won't be educated no matter how hard you try!

homerhop

What I found funny was the biddy that was against guns cos years ago her husband split up his gun and couldnt remember where they put the parts, then were afraid that their kid may have found it. Errrrr missus take a look in the mirror, its gob****es like you that shouldnt have guns.

LB6

that wasn't funny - that was downright ignorance on both their behalves! Supposedly a hunting rifle broken down into bits and stored round the house - NO COMMENT..... just as well they don't possess anything now - would hate to have them representing the shooting community!

Cass

I can't remember if she mentioned it was a rifle or shotgun or if she mentioned it at all, but seriously how well hidden was it when a child found it? Putting it in a sock drawer does not count a secure. Plus if the child did find a piece, what was he going to do with it? A stock of a shotgun, a bolt from a rifle. Nothing thats what.

its gob****es like you that shouldnt have guns

+1. Safes are not that dear that you cannot pick up a small or second hand 2/3 gun safe. Especially with children in the house. Its nothing to do with someone breaking into your house at that point its to prevent the children gaining access.

HELLO........COMMON SENSE..........HELLO

rrpc

ivanthehunter wrote: »

Once upon a time I proposed some other hunting options here that did not require a gun! Over 1 million animal harvested with it ever year and comparable injury rates to that of gun hunting.

Ivan, why don't you link people to the threads where you discussed these 'alternative' methods of hunting. That way they can make up their own minds on the pros and cons of the argument and not just your take on it.

That fair?

meathstevie

To be honest I wouldn't worry too much about a radio show on Q102. It's not exactly the station that's going to influence the political decissions in this country. What I do agree on though is that it's more than overdue that we actually do establish a "gun culture" lobbygroup in Ireland.

Not the sort of gun culture one confused gentleman from Louth felt in need to legislate against or the the gun culture from certain parts of Limerick and Dublin but the gun culture of the hunting shotgun and rifle and the target shooting firearms of all shapes and calibers. I know the NRA in the US for example can be as backward and thick as two short planks but they have achieved quite a lot for their members over the decades.

I agree wholeheartedly with the notion that no civilian should have access to full automatic weapons or shoulderfired missiles and the like but can anyone explain me the logic behind issuing a cert for a shotgun and not for a full bore semi-auto pistol for targetshooting for the same lad ?

ivanthehunter

rrpc wrote: »

Ivan, why don't you link people to the threads where you discussed these 'alternative' methods of hunting. That way they can make up their own minds on the pros and cons of the argument and not just your take on it.

That fair?

I sorry but if i do that I'll be banned! again.
I have been told that i cant make any such reference to this unmentionable sport!!
It seems that we can discuss other items that are not yet legal here but i can not discuss this issue

Its mob rule. Sorry mate god knows I'd love to... but the commonly perceived idea exists that this is fundamentally wrong and the shooting community has a far to many members that are infected with do-gooderism-iea:eek:

Personal i fell that the sport-hunting community should be trying to increase the range of their sports instead of sitting dead in the water with the green sharks circling:rolleyes: biting lumps of at their leisure.

Just think, if we were currently involved in introducing new methods of hunting to our land then the greens might have been too busy to be bothered attacking the Ward hunt!

Cass

meathstevie wrote: »

........... can anyone explain me the logic behind issuing a cert for a shotgun and not for a full bore semi-auto pistol for targetshooting for the same lad ?

You find an answer to that let us all in.

To be honest I wouldn't worry too much about a radio show on Q102. It's not exactly the station that's going to influence the political decissions in this country.

True to a degree but if we ignored every little criticism or undefended attack on the tools of our sport, etc then it will gain momentum. We are where we are due to the minister's unlimited access to the media and the one sidedness of all the arguments that has John Q Public in the "panic", ignorant state they are in.

Sikamick

rrpc wrote: »

I thought I did

And fair play to you rrpc and I know we haven't agreed on a lot of things here on Boards and probably haven't agreed on anything, but I have to respect you for saying your piece and standing up for our sport.

Sikamick

rrpc

ivanthehunter wrote: »

I sorry but if i do that I'll be banned! again.
I have been told that i cant make any such reference to this unmentionable sport!!
It seems that we can discuss other items that are not yet legal here but i can not discuss this issue

Ivan, if you're talking about threads you started and which were closed and deleted fine, but if they were just closed and still exist then you can certainly link to them.

And really if you are talking about hunting with spears, then cop on FFS this is Ireland not the African bush.

rrpc

ezridax wrote: »

You find an answer to that let us all in.

Except there's no automatic right to a firearm just because you own another. You have to make a case for each one.

True to a degree but if we ignored every little criticism or undefended attack on the tools of our sport, etc then it will gain momentum. We are where we are due to the minister's unlimited access to the media and the one sidedness of all the arguments that has John Q Public in the "panic", ignorant state they are in.

Every time someone hears a misrepresentation of shooting sports, the misconceptions grow, so every time we hear them we should endeavour to present the facts so that they are remembered instead.

So long as we know the facts too; not always a given going by some of the posts here

Cass

I know there is no automatic right to a firearm whether you have a second, third, etc firearm. But if he found an answer to it then i would really like to know.

Every time someone hears a misrepresentation of shooting sports, the misconceptions grow, so every time we hear them we should endeavour to present the facts so that they are remembered instead.

Very true, and as i said myself.

So long as we know the facts too; not always a given going by some of the posts here

Also very true. A misinformed representative (of the sport, hunting, etc community) could do more damage than good. The American on the podcast stated that he has a .22 pistol and doesn't see the need for fullbore pistols. "One United Shooting Community" - good one . With friends like that who needs enemies. Plus getting an answer from him was like drawing teeth. The later callers though handled themselves very well, answering questions, remaining calm, not trying to force their point of view down people's throats but still getting their point across.

Well done lads (if you're reading this)

rrpc

Sikamick wrote: »

And fair play to you rrpc and I know we haven't agreed on a lot of things here on Boards and probably haven't agreed on anything,

See I'm going to have to disagree with you here Mick and say that we have agreed on things from time to time. :eek:

but I have to respect you for saying your piece and standing up for our sport.

Sikamick

Cheers. I don't make distinctions about our sports in public. We're all the one as far as I'm concerned.

In private though, you're all a shower of backstabbing baxtards who'd sell your granny for a box of ammo.

ivanthehunter

rrpc wrote: »

And really if you are talking about hunting with spears, then cop on FFS this is Ireland not the African bush.

No I'm am not talking about hunting with spears as seen in deepest dark Africa.
I was trying not to mention the second most popular method of wild animal harvesting in the northern hemisphere- so i wont i wont mention discuss the similar wound rates to that of standard firearms either.
No I'll have to leave it at that before i get carried away!:mad:

I can't cock up here anymore! I have to stay on the straigth and narrow!

Sikamick

rrpc wrote: »

See I'm going to have to disagree with you here Mick and say that we have agreed on things from time to time. :eek:



Cheers. I don't make distinctions about our sports in public. We're all the one as far as I'm concerned.

In private though, you're all a shower of backstabbing baxtards who'd sell your granny for a box of ammo.

______________________________________________________________
Your usual self rrpc but I think your right, a good sense of humor is badly need at this time.

Keep up the good work.

Sikamick

rrpc

ivanthehunter wrote: »

No I'm am not talking about hunting with spears as seen in deepest dark Africa.
I was trying not to mention the second most popular method of wild animal harvesting in the northern hemisphere- so i wont i wont mention discuss the similar wound rates to that of standard firearms either.
No I'll have to leave it at that before i get carried away!:mad:

I can't cock up here anymore! I have to stay on the straigth and narrow!

Those threads are still here Ivan, so you can link to them till you're blue in the face.

ivanthehunter

rrpc wrote: »

Those threads are still here Ivan, so you can link to them till you're blue in the face.

You and i both know that those threads were not very productive and action, such as providing a link will not benefit me or any hopes i have that one day i will be allowed to fulfill my dream!

The whole issue here is too heated as people get emotional involved- i know that some of the posters here only bearly tolerate the hunting issue and are manly concerned with target shooting.

Is this the place to forge a group of self minded individuals from?.
I don't think so, the beast has too many heads!

rrpc

ivanthehunter wrote: »

You and i both know that those threads were not very productive and action, such as providing a link will not benefit me or any hopes i have that one day i will be allowed to fulfill my dream!

I will so, they will help clear up any misunderstandings people may have. Can't understand your second point, you started some of these threads and you should have known that they would be available to anyone doing a quick search here or on google.

Are crossbows legal in Ireland

Question on crossbows and vermin

bow hunting in eire..

bow hunting for rabbits

Mr Flibble

meathstevie wrote: »

but can anyone explain me the logic behind issuing a cert for a shotgun and not for a full bore semi-auto pistol for targetshooting for the same lad ?

Exactly the same logic that says someone can have a licence for a fullbore pistol but not for a machine gun.

You may recognise it.

ivanthehunter

Maybe I'm not the best man for putting forward proper justification for allowing such activities or possible i don't have the best things to say but everything should be up for consideration and each to his own.
I don't see the harm in it as long as it was made legal..
I did advocate it as a positive action method by which the numbers people reliant of firearms could be dropped..
I just don't see how it doesn't fit in here at least for discussion- its prob because i pushed it too far to quick. You see I'm not really politically minded!:)

You know i going to be banned when sparks get back from where ever he is! and i know hes away because i would have already been infracted severely for going this far..

Mr Flibble

ivanthehunter wrote: »

I was trying not to mention the second most popular method of wild animal harvesting in the northern hemisphere-

Everyone is mentioning it. It's called shooting.

The most popular is fishing.

xesse

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH spears
HOOOOOOOOO
i,d better get one now cos we might be holding the 25m precision:D next year in spear chucking if we dont sort out this licence sh1t:D:D:p

rrpc wrote: »

Ivan, if you're talking about threads you started and which were closed and deleted fine, but if they were just closed and still exist then you can certainly link to them.

And really if you are talking about hunting with spears, then cop on FFS this is Ireland not the African bush.

johngalway

Personally, I would hold out for at least two (un-opened, I trust none of ye!) boxes of ammo for either of my grannies - and ye'd have to dig either one up yerselves!

And to throw my oar in I'd be very supportive of having bow hunting made legal in this country.

ivanthehunter

Mr Flibble wrote: »

Everyone is mentioning it. It's called shooting.

The most popular is fishing.

OK if i include fish then its third! Bronze medal for that chap in the corner;)

ivanthehunter

BUMP--
Why don't a few shooters contact Vincent Brown and let him invite some politicians and a few articulate shooters to join him on his show!

The whole law needs reform! No one will manage to counter the hand gun issue unless all the other issues are highlighted..

Lets face it- these radio shows are worrying..!


Also did anyone read the Irish shooter digest this month. There was a very good article in the first few pages about the real dangers of firearms with some interesting statistics.
well worth a read

just getting back on track

.243

johngalway wrote: »

Personally, I would hold out for at least two (un-opened, I trust none of ye!) boxes of ammo for either of my grannies - and ye'd have to dig either one up yerselves!

And to throw my oar in I'd be very supportive of having bow hunting made legal in this country.

ill second you on that john,horses for courses rrpc,just because its not your cup of tea doesn'nt mean you can down someone else's passion in life,you didn't see me last sunday banging on your door in the hall in rathdrum downing your passion,the word igornance on shooting/hunting definitly comes to mind in this thread allright and im not talking about joe public

IRLConor

Can we keep it on the topic of the radio show please?

This forum is for shooting, with firearms. Use of a bow for targets or hunting is off topic in this forum never mind this thread.

.243

IRLConor wrote: »

Can we keep it on the topic of the radio show please?.

kinda like 99% of the threads in here go off on a spiral

ivanthehunter

OK listen up!

Some one needs to hit the Girly shows on daytime TV. Hit them with facts! and hit'em fast..

On the show the worst information came from a female caller, she seemed to be very badly informed!
Her whole mind set was was against guns. Now this is shocking as she and similar people (male inc) to her will continue to gripe about any and all firearms in society irrespective of whether or not hand guns do or do not disappear from Ireland. This ill-informed waffle is causing the erosion of our sport.
The ill-informed rant includes- all objections against hunting, objections against shooting, objections against anything dangerous
Lets face when did you see a TV show about hunting in Ireland- in the US they have the hunting channel.. a whole channel:eek:

FFS if nothing is done the ignorance will win out! Its here already and its spreading like a cancer through society. I see it myself when talking to people about hunting and i get that funny look from them! "hunting-Huh what do you want to kill animals for, sure they're lovely".. then i have to start explaining about control and vermin and then i soften the blow by saying " ah sure i eat as much as i can" ..


This is our enemy at the gates- The ill-informed citizen and there ignorance to the facts, which are exacerbated be what only can be described as blatant mis-truth and deliberate mis-guidance from or political over-seers It is also apparent that Irish Television has made no effort to help educate its viewers- they are quite happy to fill peoples mind full of meaningless soaps..
One can't help felling that maybe there is a conspiracy!! Is there??

Solutions..? Well it has to be education through every source possible.

Its jaw dropping stuff that were are witnessing- Are we willing to be known as the generation that stood by while society festered in its own ignorance, until that ignorance breed fear of all that was once commonly excepted in our community.

I would say the the ignorance is alive its a kin to shock waves on the motorway or something like that, it has a life force all of its own. And we have to stop it.. the very fact that this radio show aired this piece goes to hight light that fact that someone out there was either trying to put us down or pick us up!! ?? i couldn't really say-could you?.

rrpc

ivanthehunter wrote: »

the very fact that this radio show aired this piece goes to hight light that fact that someone out there was either trying to put us down or pick us up!! ?? i couldn't really say-could you?.

Yes. The radio show and articles in newspapers were inspired by the District Court case in Cork which is discussed on another thread.

If it's not current there's usually no interest in running with it.

rrpc

.243 wrote: »

ill second you on that john,horses for courses rrpc,just because its not your cup of tea doesn'nt mean you can down someone else's passion in life,you didn't see me last sunday banging on your door in the hall in rathdrum downing your passion,the word igornance on shooting/hunting definitly comes to mind in this thread allright and im not talking about joe public

It might be your passion to hunt with spears or bows .243, but not in Ireland where it's illegal.

Which was my point. What I do in the 'hall' in Rathdrum is not illegal, so you can bang on the door all you like.

.243

rrpc wrote: »

It might be your passion to hunt with spears or bows .243, but not in Ireland where it's illegal.

Which was my point. What I do in the 'hall' in Rathdrum is not illegal, so you can bang on the door all you like.

eh who actually said that they were hunting with a spear or bow in ireland,but still cant discuss on this website about changing the law how to make it legal"oh if its illegal in the law books we cant be seen to be talking about it we might be giving out the wrong impression about what we do",free speech my a*se !!

rrpc

.243 wrote: »

eh who actually said that they were hunting with a spear or bow in ireland,but still cant discuss on this website about changing the law how to make it legal"oh if its illegal in the law books we cant be seen to be talking about it we might be giving out the wrong impression about what we do",free speech my a*se !!

Did I say we couldn't discuss it? Please show me where exactly I said that. In fact I think I said the exact opposite.

I did refer to previous discussions on bow hunting where it was pointed out that it was illegal here. I did that because Ivan has a tendency to take an a la carte approach to the law and quotes one bit whilst leaving out the important parts.

His post about slug ammunition being a case in point.

So if you've a problem with what's allowed for discussion, please take it up with the mods, not with me.

johngalway

ivanthehunter wrote: »

You know i going to be banned when sparks get back from where ever he is! and i know hes away because i would have already been infracted severely for going this far..

Finland as far as I remember.