DTT Mt Leinster, Ch45 blocking Presely in the South East

The Cush

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

I seem to remember somewhere along the road (probably the Ofcom site) seeing CH30 being reserved for future HD at Preseli.

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

Correct but I got the impression that CH30 was for 1 or 2 years further down the road. Channel 4 and FIVE maybe?
There was also negative comments on UK boards as this would be out of band for existing aerials in Preseli's service area. Sorry I cant remember where I read this:o

Channel 30 at Preseli is part of Ofcom's geographic interleaved spectrum to be sold off for local tv or mobile services. Channels 30 & 57 at Wenvoe and Winter Hill respectively were auctioned off last year.

Mr McBoatface

marclt wrote: »

I'd have thought it would have made sense to use the Grp B frequencies on Mt. Leinster as a temporary arrangement until DSO and then move back to using the already cleared analogue frequencies.

Perhaps that is too simple!?

Ch. 39 is free for now... also Ch. 30 and 34.

On further reflection and re-reading of yesterday events and news, I wonder if re-using the frequencies that become free after the ASO is actually RTENL's plan.

It was mentioned that the 2nd mux would only be available after ASO, so maybe the intension is to use the current analogue frequencies. Fair play to Liz McManus who raised channel 45 issue and seemed to have a grasp on the problem, but with all the information to go through I've yet to find if her question/point was actually address. Maybe RTENL plan to switch from 45 to one of the analogue frequencies at ASO too.

Why the actual plans are not published on the RTENL site is beyond me, at this stage surely it can be regarded as suitable information for the public domain. Until all the information is forth coming I still say writing letters to the Loacl TD's in the affected area's detailing the problem is the best course of action that can be taken.

The Cush

jobyrne30 wrote: »

On further reflection and re-reading of yesterday events and news, I wonder if re-using the frequencies that become free after the ASO is actually RTENL's plan.

It was mentioned that the 2nd mux would only be available after ASO, so maybe the intension is to use the current analogue frequencies.

Reusing the analogue frequencies has been part of the plan since RRC-06. At the conference Ireland were allocated 8 UHF layers - the 4 existing analogue and 4 new DTT layers.

The 4 new allocations went to RTÉ and the BAI as per Broadcasting Act, after ASO the cleared analogue frequencies were to be allocated to RTÉ (1 mux), BAI (1 mux) and the 2 remaining to be allocated to other uses e.g. DVB-H services at that time.

Since that time the Digital Dividend has developed so the frequency plan has to be rejiged to clear the upper UHF band and the layer 7 and 8 plans will probably be absorbed into this area. The Broadcasting Act allows for further multiplexes to be allocated by the BAI if the spectrum is available, probably on a local or regional basis.

Fair play to Liz Mcmanus for following up the ch 45 issue.
It's so easily resolvable.
I replayed the debate video and Liz actually mentioned it but indicated that she would take it up privately.Thats why it wasn't answered in the committee.

I understand Michael Darcy T.d is now also on the case.

Sponge Bob

Get every TD in Wicklow Wexford Carlow Kilkenny and Waterford on the case, not forgetting Dun Laoighre for completism

watty

With Registered Letters. Not Email.

marclt

The Cush wrote: »

Reusing the analogue frequencies has been part of the plan since RRC-06. At the conference Ireland were allocated 8 UHF layers - the 4 existing analogue and 4 new DTT layers.

Bizarrely, of course - only two of the four UHF analogue allocations are actually being used.

So - RTE could quite easily use these now? I don't see any technical limitation? That would mean Ch30 and 34.

As for the digital interleaved spectrum in the UK. I think that seems to have gone cold. Ofcom got a pittance for the Cardiff multiplex and it was a highly concentrated beam in an easterly direction. Severe restrictions on Ch30 Preseli to the NW, which might limit any co-channel issues.

Just back from a house over the road from here.
They have a group B on the chimney pointed to Mt Leinster and a VHF.
The group B is getting nothing on ch45 tonight and when I tuned in their digital tv...low and behold theres preseli ch 43 and 46 coming in perfectly and the others with some break up.
Asked how often they have been losing the RTE digital "test" on 45,they said a lot.They've given up on it...
It's fairly obvious this is because of preseli.
They're actually getting reasonable tv3 and tg4 analogue from mt leinster.

When I told them,they'd best put by a couple of hundred euro for sat equipment to get RTE at the end of 2012,they weren't pleased...
This is in North wexford by the way.

RTE would you mind flicking the switch at Mt Leinster over to ch 39 please

watty

You write to Comreg and BAI yet? RTENL won't take any initative. They are only Engineers. Up to Comreg/BAI to issue new instructions.

I've yet to do so as I will be unable to deal with a reply[or replies] for a couple of weeks.
A couple of people in this thread have,albeit by email and haven't said if they've got replies yet.
I don't want to send a registered letter if I'm not in a position to deal with a reply when it comes.I will though.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I've yet to do so as I will be unable to deal with a reply[or replies] for a couple of weeks.
A couple of people in this thread have,albeit by email and haven't said if they've got replies yet.
I don't want to send a registered letter if I'm not in a position to deal with a reply when it comes.I will though.

No reply at all - I shall be contacting comreg by email and phone on monday and see if i can get somewhere with it....shall contact rteNL by phone as well again and make it a clear situation for them

newleaf

Late last night announcer on RE said they would be doing work on Mount Leinster late in the night so expect interference. Had hopes, but while analogue excellent this morn, no sign of digital at all. Oh well.

STB

Deleted User wrote: »

Just back from a house over the road from here.
They have a group B on the chimney pointed to Mt Leinster and a VHF.
The group B is getting nothing on ch45 tonight and when I tuned in their digital tv...low and behold theres preseli ch 43 and 46 coming in perfectly and the others with some break up.
Asked how often they have been losing the RTE digital "test" on 45,they said a lot.They've given up on it...
It's fairly obvious this is because of preseli.
They're actually getting reasonable tv3 and tg4 analogue from mt leinster.

When I told them,they'd best put by a couple of hundred euro for sat equipment to get RTE at the end of 2012,they weren't pleased...
This is in North wexford by the way.

RTE would you mind flicking the switch at Mt Leinster over to ch 39 please

When Fort Mountain comes on will that solve your problems ?

No forth is too weak and too far away.
Wexford and wicklow [especially south wicklow] are going to be saorview black holes if Mt leinster doesn't avoid preseli frequencies.
So we will be going from perfect analogue reception to an easily avoidable scenario of no digital terrestrial...
If network planning people had done their home work...it's not too late! (and crucially costs nothing to avoid)

Gerry Wicklow

Given that RTENL were testing on all four muxes from ML until recently, surely they could continue (ahem) 'testing' on CH39 only until they sort things out with Comreg.
CH45 is a non-runner plain and simple.

still no responce to my email - so comreg it is just to see where i can go with this

watty

Write letter (actual paper) to Comreg, BAI and Dept of Comms. Registered mail. Then they can't ignore it and will reply.

jabarrett35

Here we go again nothing on ch 45 has been breaking up since last night. Preseli coming in loud and clear. Looking at tropospheric maps ducting isn't a factor yet but for the end of the week it is fair and will go on up until Monday. Quick question does anyone know who does aerial installation in the Tramore area I would like to add another aerial for Preseli?

marclt

Anyone got any updates on this?

Any word from anyone? I had a drab response which made no reference to future plans.

I guess they'd rather put up a relay at Forth Moutain to deal with the problem than look at an alternative resolution!

I'd love to the the justification for a new build when they are looking at decomissioning other sites where viewers might actually benefit more!

marclt

marclt wrote: »

Anyone got any updates on this?

Any word from anyone? I had a drab response which made no reference to future plans.

I guess they'd rather put up a relay at Forth Moutain to deal with the problem than look at an alternative resolution!

Forth won't even deal with the problem

No updates.
The politicians know about this but are on holliers now no doubt.
I must reply to your pm now-last reply disappeared into the ether.

Satdog

marclt wrote: »

Anyone got any updates on this?

Any word from anyone? I had a drab response which made no reference to future plans.

I guess they'd rather put up a relay at Forth Moutain to deal with the problem than look at an alternative resolution!

I'd love to the the justification for a new build when they are looking at decomissioning other sites where viewers might actually benefit more!

I'm just above Whiterock outside Wexford town and I've switched to E55 Suir Valley as it is co-channel free. I've noticed a lot of aerials nearby also pointing to Suir Valley, a sure sign that viewers have given up on Mt Leinster.

Sponge Bob

Lots of previous , eg . Hilliard was the Minishter in them days.

Dáil Éireann - 07 February, 1963

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Reception of Welsh TV Service.

Sir Anthony Esmonde asked the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs if he is aware that owners of television sets on the south and east coast who previously had good reception from Welsh TV (Pembroke) are unable to get reception since the transmission began from Mount Leinster, County Carlow; whether, if the wavelength used at Mount Leinster was altered to that used at Maghera, County Clare, or Mullaghanish, County Cork, such obstruction to Welsh TV reception would occur; and if he will make a statement on reception in the South-East.



Mr. Hilliard: It was realised that in fringe reception areas there would be mutual interference between the Mount Leinster station and television stations in the Six Counties and Great Britain, and my Department and the British Post Office agreed on some minor frequency adjustments designed to minimise such interference.

It is not possible to assign a different channel to the Mount Leinster station for reasons which were fully explained in my replies to questions by Deputies Ryan and Sweetman on the 1st and 22nd March, 1962, in a statement issued to the press on 9th March, 1962, in my reply to the Adjournment Debate on 20th March, 1962 and in my reply to the debate on the Estimate for my Department on 4th April, 1962.

Sir Anthony Esmonde: Would the Minister agree to have the matter further examined, on account of unsatisfactory reception in that area?

Mr. Hilliard: The matter has already been fully examined. As I have told the Deputy, consultations have been held between the Department of Posts and Telegraphs and the British Post Office. I have gone into this matter fully on several occasions in this House and issued public statements, and I have nothing further to add.

Mr. Corish: Can we take it nothing else can be done to lessen this interference?

Mr. Hilliard: It looks like that.


Sir Anthony Esmonde: Is the Minister telling the House he can do nothing to ensure proper reception in that area after people have paid £4 for licences?

Mr. Hilliard: I have explained the matter fully to the House and I have nothing further to add.

Sir Anthony Esmonde: It is a very poor show that these people have paid £4 for licences and can see nothing.

50 years later in the smart and green pixieland twilight Eamon Ryan gives even less of a damn

jabarrett35

I've monitored Mt Leinster reception on Ch 45 over the last month and with little or no up lift the picture drops out or goes completely a majority of the time. Which is the worst of both worlds without a Presley aerial I only get the UK DTT some of the time. So for example on Saturday I had CH 45 until 1600 and nothing until 2300, Ch 42,43,46,49 coming in with 75-95% quality no ch 50 which is at the same power level as 43 and 46. If I got an aerial for Presley would that wipe out CH 45 all the time? I assume it would.

yes,you would have all those presely channels.
Your longterm option will be saorsat and presely.

Rte are stubbornly sticking with ch45 even though its only two thirds if that of their current analogue reception and means expensive town relays have to be built at a time when rte have no money.
They could easily make the case to comreg to licence 39 if they wanted to but they stubbornly won't.

Why?
To keep more engineers at rtenl in jobs obviously...

watty

which channel should they use for 2nd Mux?

It's likely the 2nd mux will on air before June 2011

They should use either ch's 30 or 34 for the 2nd mux both of which have been allocated for mt leinster and none of which are co channel with preseli

If and I stress If theres ever a commercial service after ASO,they can use the TG4 and TV3 old analogue uhf channels for those.

Sorted.

(Well it would be if RTE and Comreg weren't so stubborn)

Mr McBoatface

Mount leinster seems to be down at the moment (well at least for me) .Lets hope it comes back on a different channel:)

Andy454

Perhaps it is time to fashion a "mount leinster shield".

Attaching a 60 -80cm perferated dish to the side of the antenna facing mount leinster should block most of the unwanted interference...

..it would also dramatically increase wind loading - so may be best suited to antennas with lower heights.

Gerry Wicklow

Andy454 wrote: »

Perhaps it is time to fashion a "mount leinster shield".

Why the heck should thousands of viewers have to alter their setup just because RTÉnl are too pig-headed to push a button and change channels. It's up to them, Comreg, Ofcom, et al to sort it out.
Judging by other threads they are on a similar crash course in border regions. It downright embarrassing.

newleaf

Read somewhere that they are building mast in Arklow for DTT. Ready by end of October I hope.