DTT Mt Leinster, Ch45 blocking Presely in the South East

marclt

The whole frequency planning issue in Ireland has been messed up from the very beginning.

On the transition from VHF to UHF - the process was never completed. All of the work that must have gone into frequency co-ordination - WASTED! So you end up having viewers in large parts of the country needing two aerials just to receive three or four channels.

In Wexford at least, it was only when Corrie got shifted onto TV3 did anyone consider buying a UHF for TV3/TG4!

Now the situation continues, most installers would have put in group A aerials for UHF from Mt. Leinster and yet RTE are moving to Group B! They must think people are fools...

What happens to UHF 23 and 26 when analogue vacates? No mention of that being given over for digital use

BTW I think Ch 30 and 34 are also cleared for digital dividend use from Preseli.. albeit with significant nulling to the north west. Not sure why, as they aren't used from Mt. Leinster and probably never will.

Antenna

marclt wrote: »

On the transition from VHF to UHF - the process was never completed. All of the work that must have gone into frequency co-ordination - WASTED! So you end up having viewers in large parts of the country needing two aerials just to receive three or four channels.

There is 'for it' and 'against it'.

UHF Channels that would have been used for RTE1 and 2 moving to UHF at those main transmitters are now allocated to DTT and used for DTT PSB MUX in some areas. Alternative channels for DTT would have been potentially less powerful and more likely to affect fringe reception of UK DTT and/or UK analogue and even Irish UHF analogue in some areas.
The VHF give a better signal for RTE1,2 in many hilly rural areas.

marclt wrote: »

In Wexford at least, it was only when Corrie got shifted onto TV3 did anyone consider buying a UHF for TV3/TG4!

If they were getting UK channels they could have continued watching Corrie on ITV, after it left RTE2 !

marclt wrote: »

two aerials just to receive three or four channels.

I can't think of any (current) situation where 2 aerials are used for just 3 channels? Though yes this was the case prior to TV3

Antenna

Antenna wrote: »

I can't think of any (current) situation where 2 aerials are used for just 3 channels? Though yes this was the case prior to TV3

Freesat set ups
where 2 aerials are used for 4 channels.

Believe it or not but there were a lot of houses in the mt leinster area that prior to tv3 only ever had a vhf aerial.

jabarrett35

I did a rescan and I've got Irish DTT on ch 62 poor signal does anyone know which transmitter that is. Oh and Ch signal is now 27% strenght well thats just great!!

Antenna

jabarrett35 wrote: »

I did a rescan and I've got Irish DTT on ch 62 poor signal does anyone know which transmitter that is.

62 is Dungarvan. Its horizontal polarised. You could try that one with a dedicated aerial if your Ch 45 is troublesome!

BTW is the 'deflector' that was covering your area still in operation and what UHF channels is it currently on?

jabarrett35

Hi, yes the deflector is still operating I'll have to check the UHF channels they are using. I'm wondering have they increased the power in Dungarvan because I've never got anything from it until yesterday and it is still there.

They might be testing something in response to your email and the location you gave but I doubt it.Surely they would have told you,they're not the sekrit branch of the irish ministry of kgb broadcasting dublin cuba and north korea office...

< oh wait...>

HappyHarry

Antenna wrote: »

I can't think of any (current) situation where 2 aerials are used for just 3 channels? Though yes this was the case prior to TV3

I found one recently (owner doesn't watch TG4).
UHF on the roof for TV3 \ TG4 and VHF in the loft for RTE1 & 2.

It's madness!

lucernarian

That doesn't count as the aerial picks up TG4 just as much as Tv3, even if the owner doesn't watch it.;)

Parts of northern and western Co. Monaghan are dependent on the "Lugad" relay which I think is near Threemilehouse. VHF for RTÉ 1&2, and UHF Ch. 54 for TG4.

marclt

And there'll be others! Ooops.. time to get back on topic.

So what news from Mt. Leinster this weather... ??

jabarrett35

Well here it is awful signal strenght 27% and break up. No signal for long periods. Still getting a similar signal from Dungarvan but not able to tune in channels.

presely trumped mt leinster here for a while today as it was very strong,little wonder at the problems down in Dungarvan.
Mt Leinster never trumps presely-at best it just cancels it out.

I was going to go for a notch filter on presely ch45 but actually doubt it would work well [given presely gets too strong too often even for that to cut it's ch45 down] so down the route of a cd aerial with a separate amp and feed direct to the distribution amp I have to go,if I want RTE.

RTE are seriously going to be faced with a miny version of the sky dillema[where they had to go on the platform as people weren't bothering to switch back to analogue] at dso in this neck of the woods if they don't cop the hell on and get comreg to sign the paperwork on using the free channels 30,34 or 39.

bernardo mac

No RTE1 reception on terrestrial today and last night in Nth Wexford.RTE2 fair. TV3 and TG4 dreadful reception as usual.:eek:

Andy454

What would be the best aerial & transmitter to aim for in leixlip for UK Freeview?

marclt

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Your best bet is a series of PQs to Ryan from various TDs in all of Wexford Carlow Waterford and Wicklow whose constituents are faced with expensive and completely unnecesary aerial reconfigs because RTE will not bugger off 45 onto 39 which channel is equally co-ordinated.

Page 7 seems to confirm that Ch. 45 is the public service mux...

http://www.rtenl.ie/downloads/Receiving%20DTT%20(May%2010).pdf

This really is a crazy situation!

bernardo mac

Are Set Top Boxes available? Have one for FTA Wales.Qte efficient.

marclt

marclt wrote: »

Page 7 seems to confirm that Ch. 45 is the public service mux...

http://www.rtenl.ie/downloads/Receiving%20DTT%20(May%2010).pdf

This really is a crazy situation!

A few obvious comments on that :

Mt Leinsters allocations clearly never took in or possibly stupidly/deliberaltely ignored the probablity of presely co channel and of course the issue with wexford and south wicklow's welsh aerial configs-meaning doom for commercial muxes bar anything on ch39.

Comreg must have had RTENL engineering input into the psb and other channel choices.This input clearly (perilously for reception in wexford) ignored the presely problem and how easily it can wipe out Mt Leinster in weak ML reception areas,never mind wiping it out on welsh configs.
Comreg wouldn't take much persuasion to be of the view that other cleared and presely free channels should be used at ML.

The obstacle? Egg on RTENL's faces for not properly or considerately evaluating the potential problem prior to recommending frequencies?

Andy454

Is it possible to shield the antenna from mount leinster interference by using a grounded solid dish?

Hard to say.
The issue even affects stand alone mt leinster aerials you see with no welsh aerial combined.

At a minimum you'd need one of those basin mesh things behind your aerial head and the difficulty is,that ML in a lot of cases will be coming in on the side of the aerial and not behind.

Andy454

I would also hazzard a guess that reflections coming from objects in the antenna line of sight may be just as strong as the signal from Preseli.

Andy454

Andy454 wrote: »

What would be the best aerial & transmitter to aim for in leixlip for UK Freeview?

Brougher mtn in Tyrone,near Enniskillen probably but only after Norn Iron digital switch over when the power is increased by a huge amount there.
Divis belfast may also be possible and a myriad of lower power relays at that time.

Right now they are all probably too weak for you unless you are on very high ground.

There are one or two divis aerials in dublin and on the m50 and confirmed brougher freeview uk reception in mullingar.
The mullingar reception of the currently low power brougher is extreme but augers well for leixlip come late 2012

Andy454

Thanks Blackbriar, I do recall that I could recieve bbc radio services along the N5 / M4 in my old car, with a long whip antenna on the roof.

I might speculate on a 65 element antenna to test out over the weekend.

looking at the comreg website it says no protection is afforded to signals originating outside of the republic. - i would have thought this to be indirect contrevention to appropriate use of the radio spectrum, ie that your transmission signals do not interfere with others.

I would rekon that people in wales with sensitive equipment may also be experiencing interference from RTENL, in such an instance they would have cause for contacting ofcom /eu frequency spectrum.

But for pete's sake, it would be typical of RTE to pick a channel that would make them a nusiance to others!

And it's official RTE are being an unnecessary nuisance in Wales aswell: [taken from a post on the questions thread] and lol,they want to up the power at Mt Leinster from 94 kw to 160kw


http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2010/07/08/disappearing-channels-leave-viewers-fed-up-91466-26808646/

It may be that it was arquiva uk that told RTENL to switch off the annoying extra tests at Mt Leinster.

However,their use of ch 45 must still be blocking Sky news,Dave and E4+ 1 etc to viewers in parts of Wales.

Moving to ch 39 would fix that.

“As viewers have reported that they did not lose the channel until two months after switchover, Arqiva [which supplies Channel 4’s commercial capacity] discovered that the Mount Leinster transmitter in Ireland started using some of the same frequencies as those used for some of the commercial multiplexes at Preseli.

Heh!

Heres more!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/wales/south_west_wales/10555298.stm

Mr McBoatface

So let me get this straight in my head - Mount leinster using channel 45 is

(A) Leaving large sections of wicklow and other east coast area's without the current test transmissions and when Saorview launches in October the situation stays the same !

(B) It's affecting tranmissions in Wales

(C) Can be fixed at the flick of a switch by using channel 39 which they have already used on the test transmission so there is no legal issues stopping them using it again?

Very irish isnt it jobyrne30 :rolleyes:

45 is apparently the licensed frequency for the psb service but shur theres never going to be a commercial service so all RTE have to do is talk to Comreg and go "whoops lads could ye authorise/licence 39 for the psb instead"
39 is cleared for use at Mt Leinster for dtt and has no co channel problems either here or in wales.

Mr McBoatface

It's madness, I'm not affected myself but an email to Eamonn Ryan, Mary Curtis and others will be in daft later today/tomorrow when I've some time.

I'm sure TV3 would be interested in knowing that large densely populated area's of Wicklow and the east-coast will not be able to receive them on DTT at launch due to stupidity. Why should they pay to be on a PSB Mux when large populations can't receive their programming and the reason is pure stubbornness or stupidity and not some insurmountable technical problem.

watty

Yes, it's down to BAI/Comreg. RTENL don't have the authority to use the pay TV DTT channel 39, even though the dogs in the street are sure we won't have pay DTT.

Who was the Idiot that assigned ANY same channels to Preselli and Mt. Leinster? They used to pick up VHF Mt. Leinster in Evesham for their CATV system, never mind Wales. Cornish, Devon and Welsh Radio Amateurs often call through the Mt. Leinster 435MHz band voice repeater. Which can be worked here 6km west of Limerick.

It's a Mountain!

Sent an email with a couple articles attached and a bunch of feedback to try and nudge them in the right direction - DTT co-existance between two countries needs to be sorted for both regions sake...

Lets see how we get on

Our man in Havana

I wonder if the First Minister of Wales will be writing a strongly worded letter to the Irish government over this farce?