DTT Mt Leinster, Ch45 blocking Presely in the South East

Haddockman

Haddockman wrote: »

I wonder if the First Minister of Wales will be writing a strongly worded letter to the Irish government over this farce?

Im sure he might - pity im not a politian or a goverment advisor :mad:

The story is on the welsh news on the digital text for bbc one tonight also.
Just go to around uk regions and pick wales.

Sponge Bob

The poor First Minister will get a prompt email from Eamon Ryan telling him precisely how Wales is neither "smart" nor "green" which is why this is happening to them. Once they get on his program they will be fine in Eamos world, a charging point for electric cars in Holyhead maybe ???

Antenna

Adding to the reported problem on the other side of the sea - Is there also a 'null' in coverage due-East from Presely? (the affected area 'Dinas Cross' is due-east of Presely?)

Has anyone the horizontal radiation pattern for Presely now?

mrdtv2010

I am glad this story is finally getting traction: the summer weather will intensify the problems all along the Welsh and Irish coasts.

a) Preseli's coverage in SW Wales is partially blocked by the terrain which is why they have a string of relays to complete the coverage ( often in adjoining areas bordered by sea you get better coverage from the transmitter across the water because you are clear of the terrain).

b) High power COFDM sails across the sea very nicely. They can't say they were not warned. If as reported Mt Leinster is going up to 140Kw it will wreck the Preseli E45 coverage throughout SW Wales. And Preseli will wreck Mount Leinster in Wicklow/Wexford.

c) Putting ERP restrictions in Mount Leinster towards Preseli is pointless as this will reduce the coverage in SE Ireland and increase the interference levels from Preseli.

d) There is no peaceful coexistence between uncorrelated COFDM sources operating on the same frequencies: just the blue screen of death.

e) The obvious short term fix is to reallocate E39 to Mount Leinster for PSB channels and then to use the existing Group A channels after analogue switchoff.

f) TV3 should refuse to sign a carriage contract on Saorview until the glaring DTT coverage deficiency in the South East is fixed.

g) RTENL and Comreg have been revealed as a bunch of not very good frequency planners. This problem has been known about for years at the theoretical level and now we see it in the real world. It is also going to be a problem between Divis and Caldbeck at DSO as they are cochannel on the COM muxes.

h) The press in Ireland need to run with this as it could be deeply damaging for Saorview from a marketing perspective if the RF channel isn't changed. You can just see Sky saying: 'Don't touch Saorview with a bargepole as you won't get it because of interference from Wales'. Another free marketing gift for them

This is the biggest own goal perpetuated by RTENL and Comreg in years. Its time to own up to the problem, change the channel, and move on. It seems to me RTENL are taking a leaf out of the BP crisis management methodology: doing all the wrong things and digging a deeper and deeper hole...

Antenna

Antenna wrote: »

Adding to the reported problem on the other side of the sea - Is there also a 'null' in coverage due-East from Presely? (the affected area 'Dinas Cross' is due-east of Presely?)

Has anyone the horizontal radiation pattern for Presely now?

Presely is omnidirectional.
It has to be because of terrain.

Viewers in that part of wales point their aerials southwest for preseli meaning they are also pointed to mt leinster.
Lose lose.

Sam Russell

Maybe the solution would be to broadcast the Preseli channels from Mt Leinster, then the Welsh will get them, and to broadcast the Saorview signals from Preseli towards Ireland so we can get them.:D

Sam Russell

Sam Russell wrote: »

Maybe the solution would be to broadcast the Preseli channels from Mt Leinster, then the Welsh will get them, and to broadcast the Saorview signals from Preseli towards Ireland so we can get them.:D

wouldnt they still cancel each other out?

scath

Highlighted the issue via email & pointed to the terrestrial board here which would be great for flagging potential issues before they arise in the wider context. How it is implemented will be down to the DSO Director and how much engagement is with public or those of us in a position to word of mouth spread the good news. I think becoming a member would be a good place to start for the DSO Director. However some members might have to soften their tongue or be ignored! People don't have to put up with rudeness. I think that said most are sound and constructive on the threads!

Sam Russell

warlikedave wrote: »

wouldnt they still cancel each other out?

Well. yes. But the Welsh may listen more than RTENL.

scath

scath wrote: »

Highlighted the issue via email & pointed to the terrestrial board here which would be great for flagging potential issues before they arise in the wider context. How it is implemented will be down to the DSO Director and how much engagement is with public or those of us in a position to word of mouth spread the good news. I think becoming a member would be a good place to start for the DSO Director. However some members might have to soften their tongue or be ignored! People don't have to put up with rudeness. I think that said most are sound and constructive on the threads!

Agreed.
There is a lot of frustration but then theres no engagement or possibility of engagement with us at the moment.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Agreed.
There is a lot of frustration but then theres no engagement or possibility of engagement with us at the moment.

Isnt that the whole point of a trial - if people have the equipment to test it out and give feedback then why not take it on board - maybe they will and maybe they wont but we can only hope so make them aware of the situation is the only viable option

watty

It's not a public trial.

watty

watty wrote: »

It's not a public trial.

When is the trial period coming up? Or was the period of DTT broadcasts in dublin in 2008 the only public trial?

watty

The service goes "live" 31st Oct 2010.

Till then there Engineering Test.

The 2008 East Coast 2x site "trial" was not for Public (It was a Closed Trial) and was not even of current technolgy or Saorview spec MHEG etc. It was a political show case to get commerical companies to bid for pay DTT licence.

Maybe in one sense 31st Oct 2010 to 31st Dec 2012 is the Public Trial as perhaps no Analogue will be closed before then.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

The service goes "live" 31st Oct 2010.

Maybe in one sense 31st Oct 2010 to 31st Dec 2012 is the Public Trial as perhaps no Analogue will be closed before then.

There is nothing to stop the analogue transmitters turning off before 31st Dec 2012. The minister said 'by 2012', suggesting 31st Dec 2011. RTENL will save almost €4m/year for each transmitter turned off. That's about €10m/year for a strapped RTE.

watty

Market penetration.

The UK had many years of DTT and successful relaunch before turning off any.

I am suspecting end of 2012 start of 2013 for us is not the end of ASO but the start of it

There is no actual published schedule yet for turning off ANY Irish Analogue TV transmitter.

I think there is a date of 31st Dec 2012 mentioned, not start of 2012, i.e. "By I]end[/I of 2012 we will have Full DTT coverage" (though I think they may mean 95% to 98% and not real full coverage at all judging by sites qty plan).

Also 100% coverage of an area is not sufficient to turn off Analogue, you need 98% of people to have upgraded. To meet any kind of sensible target they are going to in the end have to offer subsidies to get people to upgrade. Especially when politically (Deflector Legalisation anyone) they can't turn off any marginal constituency with 10% upgrade refuseniks.

Our man in Havana

Just tried my DTT rig here in Laois and I can't get a decent signal on 45. All worked well when they were on Ch 42.

Haddockman

Haddockman wrote: »

Just tried my DTT rig here in Laois and I can't get a decent signal on 45. All worked well when they were on Ch 42.

39!
it may work well in laois on 42 but not in wexford and wicklow as thats a high power presely channel!

I wonder are they reducing power on 45 btw in response to the problems in wales?

What about the actual customers??? here in Ireland like?
They can go a million watts on 39 lol

marclt

Hi Guys

I've moved some of the posts out of this thread as they were going off topic. You'll find them in the Terrestrial forum: TV Standards: Saorview

Cheers

Marc

has anyones DTT signal dropped by 40 plus % in the last couple of hours? ch 45 in the south east from mount leinster

Signal is now equal to what im picking up from presley - too low to see and still present (24% on average)

Our man in Havana

Mine is at 25% right now.

Well if the RTENL engineers are watching... Hi!

Just to let you know that you've probably reduced power by enough now as since I can receive preseli now on ch45,the likelyhood people in wales complaining about interference can also...

However could you get temporary permission from Comreg to switch to ch 39 for the moment with a view to getting permanent permission to use that channel as ye do want people to be able to watch the service in wexford don't you?

watty

Maybe lads at Comreg are on Holiday helping Ryan and Cowan with their Sandcastles.

ive emailed rteNL anyways and intend to push for this channel change as best I can - either way the more pressure we apply with our feedback the better...it may not be a public trial but they cant afford to ignore this - might annoy Comreg is they are the overlords in regards to fequencies used



Signal is back but with pixilating with a general signal of 52% - good enough for me - was getting worried that I wouldnt be able to see the WC Final

warlikedave

warlikedave wrote: »

Signal is back but with pixilating with a general signal of 52% - good enough for me - was getting worried that I wouldnt be able to see the WC Final

You would want to make that point to RTE and comreg as you are a mt leinster only aerial.
Tell them that their signal is *not reliable* due to the choice of ch 45 and preseli's strength in the area.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

You would want to make that point to RTE and comreg as you are a mt leinster only aerial.
Tell them that their signal is *not reliable* due to the choice of ch 45 and preseli's strength in the area.

Already have with RTE - think ill send some feedback to comreg however - any otehr feedback DDT wise folks?

marclt

I've emailed ComReg... not even the pleasure of a holding response...

Believe me, they'll all say nothing until they've got their story straight!

watty

Letters by Snail Mail are better. Registered mail preferable.

mrdtv2010

watty wrote: »

Letters by Snail Mail are better. Registered mail preferable.

Exactly. Cannot be deleted. Somebody has to sign for it, is logged, creates an audit trail and has to be actioned. All correspondence with regulatory agencies should be by registered post. It always works.