The Match **DO NOT START OTHER MATCH THREADS**

Liam Byrne

greendom wrote: »

Unfortunately despite looking like the only winners, they didn't manage it.

And despite some people claiming that France would have scored, they didn't manage it.

OutlawPete

connemara man wrote: »

the freekick Paul McShane should of got to the ball and cleared it before Henry had even the slightest opportunity to commit the offense.

They played two french playes offside in that free kick and that was after playing out of their skin for 100 plus minutes. Give them a break.

connemara man

OutlawPete wrote: »

They played two french playes offside in that free kick and that was after playing out of their skin for 100 plus minutes. Give them a break.

I do feel sorry for them WE SHOULD BE IN THE WORLD CUP but blaming everyone else before what got us into that position in the first place isn't the way to move on and make sure we are not in this position in the future. because they are things we have control over.

What happened in the match has clearly shown flaws in the game which finally should be resolved in the future that is the best outcome we could hope for.

lugha

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

For all you people saying 'Move on' here's a question for you.

How much money has the FAI 'potentially' lost out on due to this controversy, and more importantly how much money has the domestic game potentially lost out on because of this?

Truck loads no doubt. But the actual financial cost won't decrease by one cent no matter how much we grumble about it. And if you want a silver lining to a financial black cloud, our failure to qualify will mean a sizable chunk of money which would otherwise go to the SA economy next Summer will stay in Ireland. Anyway, I don't think it is the financial loss that has folk up in arms.

OutlawPete

lugha wrote: »

But the actual financial cost won't decrease by one cent no matter how much we grumble about it. .

WHAT??????? Are you serious??

Fu*k you Liam Byrne, Ulysses Gaze and you Ollie. You f**kers told me to grumble as it would get the replay ... I'm finished with the lot of ya's. Done I tell ta!

lugha

OutlawPete wrote: »

That is simply not true. There were loads of times in the match were the ball went out of play that I am sure could have been kept in by a handball. Why do you assume that an Irish player where Henry was would cheat?

Possibly because some of the Irish players have openly admitted that they would do the same as Henry if they thought they would get away with it.
Look Henry is no footballing fiend. He didn't behave any worse that the vast majority of players would have done in the same circumstances. The fact that the evidence cited for footballers behaving honorably (Fowler, Wenger, De Canio) all come from the last century should say something about how incongruent such commendable behavior is in the modern game.

OutlawPete wrote: »

I said it before and I'll say it again. We had them on the ropes and the momentum was with us. We looked winners all the way.

IMO our best bet to win was to score in extra time and I don't think we were as much on top then as we were in the 90 minutes. France have far better technical players which would be a considerable advantage in a penalty shoot out. Anyway, that's all speculation.

Sir Gallagher

OutlawPete wrote: »

Yes, but we created those chances. Even if were playing for penos, I don't see what that has do with anything really.

The last 50 posts are all about people complaining that peole are still sore about the guy cheating. Can't you understand that people just want to discuss it, talkm about it.

We are not all stupid. We don't think FIFA is browsing Boards and will grant us a replay should we complain enough. People talk, that's life.

Everywhere I have went the past few days it's the topic of discussion. So why begrudge people one thread on AH.

We'll be done soon. Promise

This thread is about the match, it's not just for people complaining about it so i'm not begrudging anybody. I just feel differently about it that's all.

As i said earlier, playing for penos in extra time against a technically superior side is a dangerous game. At that stage were were short of ideas and energy the odds were stacked in their favour. Yes they cheated and it pisses me off to trust me, but this notion that we had more or less booked our ticket to South Africa before the scored is wrong.

OutlawPete

lugha wrote: »

Possibly because some of the Irish players have openly admitted that they would do the same as Henry if they thought they would get away with it..

What t**ts said that?

Even if they did, they are just protecting a fellow pro they see getting stick. I don't think any of the Irish players would have cheated like that, no way.

If he had of let the ball go out people wouldn't be saying, jaysus Henry should have handled that.

Turtwig

I don't think any of the Irish players would have cheated like that, no way.

I do,

Seriously, how many times did Robbie Keane handle the ball that night?
(Could have sworn the referee missed one occasion.)

OutlawPete

Malty_T wrote: »

I do,

Seriously, how many times did Robbie Keane handle the ball that night?
(Could have sworn the referee missed one occasion.)

We'll argree to disagree so as I really don't think he would.

Liam Byrne

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

this notion that we had more or less booked our ticket to South Africa before the scored is wrong.

I'll agree with you on that front, as it's cropped up on more than a few occasions in interviews with people that should know better.

The fact is that they robbed us of "a good chance" to go to SA (especially as Given is a top-class keeper) but it's true that they didn't stop us "going".

But we'll never know.

P.S. Re an earlier post I dunno why in my head I subtracted the 2 mins before half-time from the total time.....guess it must have been the celebrating the 9 - 1 win today!!!!

BTW... Please tell me that FIFA have nothing to do with the Premiership ? If Spurs are gonna go on sprees like that, I'd hate to have to boycott that as well as the World Cup.....

lugha

OutlawPete wrote: »

What t**ts said that? way.

Duff did for one.

OutlawPete wrote: »

Even if they did, they are just protecting a fellow pro they see getting stick. I don't think any of the Irish players would have cheated like that, no way.

Have another look at the fourth (!) of Keane's hand balls in the 90th minute of the game where his left hand comes up to control the ball. Granted he was caught and so it didn't lead to a goal. But that aside, how exactly would you distinguish between that and and what Henry did?

OutlawPete

This sums up all I have to say now on the whole matter ..

Pic ..

Dean820

I hope France goes on to win the World Cup now, it would make a joke out of the whole competition. Which is what it is at this moment of time.

me-skywalker

its amazing to think that FIFA would have agreed to a replay that would have been worse than Henry handling it! aach!!

stovelid

OutlawPete wrote: »

That is simply not true. There were loads of times in the match were the ball went out of play that I am sure could have been kept in by a handball. Why do you assume that an Irish player where Henry was would cheat?

Basically you're on shaky ground if you claim that an Irish player would (or has) never handball, commit a professional foul or go to ground.

Henry is a cheat. I think we knew that and it was to be expected. The game failed us, or at least the existing refereeing structure. The problem is that all the opprobrium is coming down on the head of the player (and therefore the need to have a replay) with too little focus on the refereeing shortcomings that allow cheating to prosper in a widespread fashion.

OutlawPete wrote: »

I think we are all aware of how a football game works when it it goes to extra time. Nobody believes that we were through and nothing else had to be done.

No need to be sarcastic. I know how the 'game works'. I'm a club season ticket holder, had a block subscription for these qualifiers and, unlike most of the Ole Ole Ole heads losing it about the game, have been going to Ireland games since '86.

The perceived nation that, if not for Henry, we would be in the World Cup is, excepting clairvoyance, wrong.

OutlawPete

stovelid wrote: »

Basically you're on shaky ground if you claim that an Irish player would (or has) never handball.

I never claimed that an Irish player would "never handball" and to suggest as much is boring.

stovelid wrote: »

Henry is a cheat. I think we knew that and it was to be expected. .

How was that to be expected? I never expected him to cheat? No idea where your coming from now. You criticise everyone for calling him a cheat and then say "it was to be expected"

stovelid wrote: »

too little focus on the refereeing shortcomings that allow cheating to prosper in a widespread fashion. .

I agree, but having a pop at everyone that is calling Henry a cheat doesn't make sense as all the folks so far on this thread have also been calling for 'video evidence' alongside their comments as they know full well that the officials failed us.

Criticising the officials won't do much as they if they are useless then no amount of a verbal spanking is going to make them better. However, I guarantee that Henry won't cheat to that extreme again.

stovelid wrote: »

No need to be sarcastic. .

There is man. Every need, as you keep stating obvious things that we are all well aware of. We know we weren't through yet. We know the rules of a football game. Your tone is quite patronizing at times, tbh.

stovelid wrote: »

I know how the 'game works'. .

Nobody is suggesting that YOU don't. It is you who keeps reminding everyone about what was needed from us to go on to win the game, as if we don't know.

stovelid wrote: »

I'm a club season ticket holder, had a block subscription for these qualifiers and, unlike most of the Ole Ole Ole heads losing it about the game, have been going to Ireland games since '86. .

As have I, seen Ireland play Poland in a rainy dirty Dalymount Park when you could barely give away tickets pre the Stuttgart hey days and have held a UK season ticket for many years in the 90's.

However, so what? That doesn't mean my opinion is any better that some 19 year old singing Ole Ole Ole. Far from it and if back in 1990 when I was 17, I would have thought someone was a right twat if they were in their 30's or 40's telling me their opinion held more weight cause of their football watching experience.

stovelid wrote: »

he perceived nation .

Freudian slip?

stovelid wrote: »

that, if not for Henry, we would be in the World Cup is, excepting clairvoyance, wrong.

How do you know it's wrong. At worst it was a 50/50 so we have a right to feel cheated out of a place in the finals as that is exactly what we were - cheated.

stovelid

OutlawPete wrote: »

IHow was that to be expected? I never expected him to cheat? No idea where your coming from now. You criticise everyone for calling him a cheat and then say "it was to be expected"

Henry has form in this regard. No more, that said, than many other players. Cheating is widespread in the game as you know. Especially with the stakes as high as this.

OutlawPete wrote: »

I would have thought someone was a right twat if they were in their 30's or 40's telling me their opinion held more weight cause of their football watching experience.

I stand by what I said. Couldn't care less about sounding like a twat. Ireland games bring the worst type of bandwagoners out of the woodwork, especially in lynch-mob situations like this.

OutlawPete wrote: »

At worst it was a 50/50 so we have a right to feel cheated out of a place in the finals as that is exactly what we were - cheated.

We were cheated out of a possible place in the finals.

It's time to reform the game. Focusing on the cheating of one player and calling for a replay is understandable but missing the point. We could have used the momentum and sympathy of the word to push for a wider eradication of cheating in football rather than inferring: the game is fine, it's just that cheating bastard that's at fault.

jmayo

Well by the looks of some of the "get over it" posts and comments in the media by some ex players and so called managers, the view is to just shut up, move on, sh** happens, you might get your break down the road.

Some are of the view that there shouldn't be any video refs, because sure it would ruin the game, how can you have it for big matches and not the local bankrupt club in the Eircom League, etc, etc.
FIFA and UEFA subscribe to that view as well.

Well with an attitude like that soccer can hold it's head up there with those other fine sports of cycling, athletics, F1.
You know the sports where the authorities have often turned a blind eye to the activities of some of the competitors, until eventually the sport is dragged through the mire.
The win at all costs mentality is alive and well in soccer.

FIFA, the coaches, the players, all the FAs (including our own) will waffle on about fair play, drag a few kids carrying a big flag onto the pitch before kickoff, have the players wear an emblem on their shirtsleeves, and put together a fancy website, but God forbid if it interferes with the big guys making money.
That's when we really see where fair play stands in the whole scheme of things.

It was noticable how players reacted, it was seen by a lot of them as sure why not, he did it for the team, we would have done it ourselves.
Patrick Evra fair play to you for telling us what the players really think.
Perhaps some of the Irish fans should remember his comments when they are rushing into Champion sports to buy the latest Man U strip.

Some have even come out and backed up his comment it is up to the referee.
Nice to see the moral stance of our professional soccer players.
No wonder we have some of them beating up people in nightclubs, stubbing cigarette butts in people's eyes, running people over while drunk, gang banging some young girls in hotels, etc.
They are led to believe it is not up to them to behave in a decent fashion.
It is someone else to ensure they behave. Thus if they are caught it is not their fault.

Maybe the burgular that breaks into their homes, nicks their valuable jewellery and the keys to their Bently can use the same excuse.

Henry made about €600,000 for qualifying, not to mention the lucrative sponsorship deals.
Domenech makes about €800,000 although can't ever have seen any sponsor breaking the down the door of such a hated manager :rolleyes:

No wonder the FAI are complaining, they have lost out on the money.
Maybe they could adopt the American ethos and sue FIFA, the referee and Henry for lost of earnings.
Now that would really be interesting.

BTW I know and knew a replay was never on the cards, since it could open floodgates, but the least that FIFA could do was sanction Henry for bringing the game into disrepute and start moves to bring video technology into soccer, starting with major championships.

PS can't wait to see FIFA drag out the fair play flag in SA.
It will be the hypocritical move of the decade.

SantryRed

One thing I don't get is people calling for a replay. Ok, let me take you back to February of this year, Ireland are one nil down to Georgia in Croker, playing atrociously and going no where. All of the sudden they're gifted a penalty when the referee said the Georgian player handled the ball when he clearly didn't. Ireland scored the penalty and scored again a few minutes after. Ok, so we were gifted a decision the ref thought he'd seen, exactly the same as the referee and linesman not seeing Henry handle the ball, they're both cases of human error!

So if we replay the France game then sure we should replay the Georgia game, and then who's to say we'd of had the fight to score that last minute goal in Bari? Better replay that too considering the effect that Georgia game had on the team's morale. See where I'm going? Replay one game because of human error and a massive can of worms would be opened.

prinz

jmayo wrote: »

BTW I know and knew a replay was never on the cards, since it could open floodgates, but the least that FIFA could do was sanction Henry for bringing the game into disrepute and start moves to bring video technology into soccer, starting with major championships.

PS can't wait to see FIFA drag out the fair play flag in SA.
It will be the hypocritical move of the decade.

+1. I can forgive Henry, he French F.A., even Domenech/Sarkozy etc. But I will never forgive FIFA.

The same FIFA who seem to have completely missed the whole incident in the match report. The match report does make mention of the handball now, but at the bottom of the report it is described still as a "late French stroke of luck".......:mad:

The same FIFA who, IIRC, are still to actually acknowledge the handball incident in any press release or public statement....:mad:

The same FIFA who can immediately initiate disciplinary proceedings against the Egyptian FA, over crowd trouble.... yet seem to think disciplinary proceedings against Henry/the French FA, over something which actually affected the outcome of a massively important qualifier on the pitch.....is impossible...:mad:

The same FIFA website where any criticism is removed/prevented from being posted...:mad:

lugha

stovelid wrote: »

The game failed us, or at least the existing refereeing structure. .....with too little focus on the refereeing shortcomings that allow cheating to prosper in a widespread fashion.

Wouldn't agree there. Can anybody point to a place or time in any league where refereeing errors were completely eliminated? I don't see any reason to believe that refereeing standards can be drastically improved, other than by encouraging more guys to take it up (including ex pros, who for all their shouting and roaring almost universally decline). And permitting the disrespect for referees and humiliating them when the make an error won't help. Video technology will certainly help but even if FIFA do embrace it I don't think many would want games stopping every couple of minutes. So there will still be errors. Best to view them in the way you might view Anelka's goal in Dublin, a rub of the green against you.
And those who have been following Ireland for a while will surely remember far worse decisions going against us. I can still visualize the disallowed goal against Belgium in 1981 / 82. Also, a dreadful offside decision against Aldridge v Spain (don't recall the year). Someone old enough should compile a list in terms of shear bad decisions (as opposed to missed fouls). I suspect Henry would struggle to make the top 5!

Liam Byrne

stovelid wrote: »

Henry has form in this regard.

Are you using this in his defence ????

If he "has form in this regard" then it's all the more reason he should have been (a) watched for it and (b) castigated for it.

And you're then going on to say that "Any of the Irish would have done the same", despite them not having "form in this regard" ?

Jaysus, I hope you're never on a jury!

The more he gets away with it, the more he (and others) will think it's OK.

stovelid

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Are you using this in his defence ????

Wut?

stovelid wrote: »

Henry is a cheat

stovelid wrote: »

Henry cheated.

stovelid wrote: »

Henry is a cheat.

It's a simple point to make. We're wasting our time trying to get FIFA or the FFF to overturn a result based on the cheating of one player when cheating is widespread and acknowledged as 'part of the game'. This won't be the last time that a dodgy decision will either go against or for us.

The point I'm making is also fireproof insofar as it isn't dependent on the nationality of the cheater. If a dodgy refereeing decision had sent us to the World Cup, would there be any moralizing? Would we offer to replay the game?

In fact, the longer that the FAI and our government make a global sideshow of the cheating of one player (rather than calling for better detection of bad decisions), the more mortifying it will be if, one day, we are the country that benefits from a horrible referring decision or piece of cheating.

The introduction of video evidence won't eliminate refereeing error but it would have been perfect for a clear case of handball like this. Even a consultation of the TV cameras would have settled it the matter.

OutlawPete

stovelid wrote: »

Cheating is widespread in the game as you know. Especially with the stakes as high as this. .

Cheating to that degree is not widespread, far from it. That was the the cheekiest example of cheating I have ever seen. It was soooo blatant.

stovelid wrote: »

Couldn't care less about sounding like a twat.

Evidently.

stovelid wrote: »

Ireland games bring the worst type of bandwagoners out of the woodwork.

How do you know they are 'bandwagon jumping'? Croke Park was sold out, pretty much, for all games despite our tough task in the group we were in.

You complain about the 'Ole Ole Ole crowd' and 'Bandwagon jumping' and turn around are say the people complaing cause Henry is a cheat are the ones whining and whinging?? A little of the pot and pan there me thinks.

stovelid wrote: »

We were cheated out of a possible place in the finals. .

Symantics.

The prize was a place at the World Cup and we were holding our own. Chances are were headed for penalties. We had Shay Given in goals. They are in the finals, we are not. They cheated, we didn't.

Let's say you head off to The O2 tonight see Beyonce. It's sold out and your hoping to get a ticket off a tout. You get there and there is one tout with one ticket left and you are walking up and you are tripped from behind by some guy who, when you get up, is now buying that ticket. Wouldn't you feel cheated out of seeing the gig??

How would you feel then if someone said to you when you got home. 'Well you weren't cheated out of your seat at the O2, you were cheated out of a possible seat at the O2 as you still had to buy the ticket and maybe the guy would have got there before you anyway'.

(Substitute Beyonce in the above for the Jonas Brothers gig tomorrow night if you prefer and no smart comments about Beyonce please as we are heading down tonight in the hope of getting tickets from the touts )

stovelid wrote: »

It's time to reform the game. Focusing on the cheating of one player and calling for a replay is understandable but missing the point. .

People are not JUST focusing on Henry and that replay. They have also being criticing the officals. Check out the AH Photoshop competiton. It will be won by a joke aimed at the officals - nobody is ignoring that. We are just angry that a professional footballer had the audacity to guide a ball, that was going out of play, with his had and cheat us from a chance (if it makes you happy) of going to the World Cup next summer in South Africa.

To be honest I am quite surprised that, for someone to who football seems to a big part of your life, your so calm. Sure venting won't change things, 'move on', 'get over it' etc etc .. but you might be surprised what a good olded 'Henry Is A F**king Cheat' might do for ya. It feels damn good.

People will move on. Of course they will. It's dying down now. Was 4 days of people venting really to much for you to take?

stovelid wrote: »

We could have used the momentum and sympathy of the word to push for a wider eradication of cheating in football rather than inferring: the game is fine, it's just that cheating bastard that's at fault.

The call for the replay encompassed all of the above though. Alongside all the criticisims of Henry was calls 'wider eradication of cheating in football' - I can't see how you would think that there wasn't.

Critisising Henry for cheating sends out a message too professional footballers that people won't tolerate it. I think the world's reaction to Henry's deliberate handball will make pros think twice before doing anything similar and it might even have an effect on all the diving that goes on as I don't think any pro would like to be getting the attention that he is now receiving and most likely will till his dying day.

I guarantee you when Henry is in his 40's sitting on the BBC or SKY commentating panels of some World Cup match in 2022 or 2024 he will still have to put with questions about that game. Call it a ribbing or a slagging or whatever but there is no doubt that what he did will be with him for the rest of his days in football.

SantryRed

Croke Park didn't sell out once!

OutlawPete

SantryRed wrote: »

Croke Park didn't sell out once!

Well I couldn't get tickets for the Italy game for a start.

Liam Byrne

OK, you admitted that "Henry is a cheat", but you ALSO said:

stovelid wrote: »

Basically you're on shaky ground if you claim that an Irish player would (or has) never handball, commit a professional foul or go to ground.

stovelid wrote: »

Henry has form in this regard

So you're comparing someone whom you admit has "form in this regard" with someone who might do it, or might have done it once.

That's "defending him" by suggesting that "anyone would have done it", despite him proving time and again that he DOES do it.

I don't agree that "anyone would have done it", but even if I did accept that, the fact that he has form means that he's not actually comparable to someone who has done it once, or might do it.

And the more Henry gets away with it, the more the fair players will think "feck this", that cheating b**tard gained an advantage....I'll have to do it too.

stovelid wrote: »

The problem is that all the opprobrium is coming down on the head of the player (and therefore the need to have a replay) with too little focus on the refereeing shortcomings that allow cheating to prosper in a widespread fashion.

Forget about the replay.....the problem is that the player is a cheating scumbag, and the rules and ethos of the game don't factor this in.

The game has babysitters, while with Henry around we need bouncers and/or the police and ASBOs.

But the bottom-line fact of the matter is that if a scumbag chooses to break into your house, it's not the Gardai's fault; it's still a 100% reflection on the person who committed the offence.

Yes, the game unfortunately needs to change in order to counteract this; I'd prefer if it didn't.....and it wouldn't need to if FIFA made an example of those, rather than playing lip-service to "fair play" and making ridiculous adjustments to already biased/flawed match reports.

You wouldn't need burglar-alarm technology if there were no scumbags.

stovelid

OutlawPete wrote: »

Well I couldn't get tickets for the Italy game for a start.

On the night, I thought it looked like it wasn't completely sold out (very nearly though)...I assume that it was tickets that weren't returned or no-shows which would technically make it a sell-out.

OutlawPete

stovelid wrote: »

On the night, I thought it looked like it wasn't completely sold out (very nearly though)...I assume that it was tickets that weren't returned or no-shows which would technically make it a sell-out.

TicketMaster in Jervis St that had sold-out signs up on their gigs billboard thing for the match. Got some on Gumtree anyway but I was just trying to make the point that there is a massive amount of people in this country that do what they can to support the team and not so many bandwagon jumpers as you may think.

Allthough, the teenage girls signing 'Ole Ole Ole' AFTER the Henry incident did get on my nerves just a tad