My Job As: A Trader

mikethemouth

fair play to you .

you ve obviously worked very hard and deserve it.

Idu

mikethemouth wrote: »

fair play to you .

you ve obviously worked very hard and deserve it.

Thanks

REFLINE1

Idu wrote: »

Each firm differs on their splits. My split is based on hitting specific P&L targets in the past

I trade equities and fixed income products - details are confidential

I can only tell you what I earn(pre-tax). I wasnt making it immediately and I cant guarantee I'll make it next year either. You make what you earn yourself so if you put in the time and the effort your rewards will be greater. Some people make more, some people make less. You probably wont make any money in your first year and a half.

I don't think it would count against you. The trading styles would be quite different anyway. I know of people who have moved from a prop house to a bank successfully

good stuff Idu this is a great thread.

So are you saying you worked on commision only,no basic as a trainee? Or am i taking you too literally?

Idu

REFLINE1 wrote: »

good stuff Idu this is a great thread.

So are you saying you worked on commision only,no basic as a trainee? Or am i taking you too literally?

You get a basic for as long as you need it. There's no set time limit for when people should be making money. Everyone develops differently and the company is investing in your potential so they do what they can to make you profitable

Reillyman

Sounds unreal Idu, can't wait to try my hand at it(hopefully):cool:

Do you have any ambitions for later on in your career or do you intend to stay at PE? Do you know anyone that found success abroad?

Idu

Reillyman wrote: »

Sounds unreal Idu, can't wait to try my hand at it(hopefully):cool:

Do you have any ambitions for later on in your career or do you intend to stay at PE? Do you know anyone that found success abroad?

I'm happy with PE at the moment. I know of plenty of people who have had success moving abroad to work and I know a few who have moved into more traditional banking roles. Can't say its something I've seriously thought about. Just enjoying it as is. It's a really amazing job and a great company to work for but it all came on the back of lots of hard work and plenty of moments where I thought I would never make a cent. If it was something you were interested in then just be prepared for a year of hell at first

Daragh101

Idu wrote: »

I'm happy with PE at the moment. I know of plenty of people who have had success moving abroad to work and I know a few who have moved into more traditional banking roles. Can't say its something I've seriously thought about. Just enjoying it as is. It's a really amazing job and a great company to work for but it all came on the back of lots of hard work and plenty of moments where I thought I wonder never make a cent. If it was something you were interested in then just be prepared for a year of hell at first

lol...is this because of the long hours or because of the stress of not making money?

Idu

Daragh101 wrote: »

lol...is this because of the long hours or because of the stress of not making money?

both probably

REFLINE1

Idu wrote: »

both probably

As a newbie what would you say you were doing wrong in hindsight? Was it just a case of learning different techniques or developing your own strategies\style of trading?

Idu

I'd say it was a bit of everything. Didnt realise the true commitment it would take to crack it and it takes time to find your own strengths in the market and to be properly able to put that in to practice. You can only trade quite small size starting out and for me I think it was a case of trying to run before I could walk. Once you find something you have success with though it can really pick up quite quickly. It's a confidence thing I would say

Bigdeadlydave

what happens if you have a really bad day and end up making a mess of things?

Very interesting thread.. Always wanted to end up in portfolio management myself and had signed up for the CFA last year. Never really considered being a trader.

For the first two pages of this thread, I thought how I'd like to step away from fund accounting and try what you're doing. By page 3, I remembered how I don't handle stress well and I like my shorter hours.

Maybe someday but not yet. Good luck with it Idu, sounds great.. Have a friend going for a job as a graduate trader with a Masters of International Finance behind him. Might show him this thread.

Idu

Bigdeadlydave wrote: »

what happens if you have a really bad day and end up making a mess of things?

You come back the next day.

There are risk measures in place to try and ensure you dont go over a daily limit on the downside but sometimes things just go horribly wrong. Nothing you can do in that situation but shrug it off and put it behind you. Hard to do at first because you think you'll never be able to make it back but once you've had a good run it's not a big deal

Idu

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe someday but not yet. Good luck with it Idu, sounds great.. Have a friend going for a job as a graduate trader with a Masters of International Finance behind him. Might show him this thread.

I've never worked in a bank which is where I presume this graduate programme is so I cant be sure but I believe the kind of stuff he will be doing on that course will be far different to what we do here, he'll do the same hours at the start but just get much better salary to start

Bigdeadlydave

I was chatting to my schools guidance Councillor the other day and I mentioned this and he said that he believed that their are programs in which you use "virtual money" and I should download one of these to get a quick taste of what it could be like....... Do these exist(he talks a lot of crap) and if so can you recommend one?

Daragh101

Bigdeadlydave wrote: »

I was chatting to my schools guidance Councillor the other day and I mentioned this and he said that he believed that their are programs in which you use "virtual money" and I should download one of these to get a quick taste of what it could be like....... Do these exist(he talks a lot of crap) and if so can you recommend one?

http://vse.marketwatch.com/Game/Homepage.aspx

This is a pretty good one!

Swizz

Whre did you get your BComm from? Was it a 1st?

Idu

Swizz wrote: »

Whre did you get your BComm from? Was it a 1st?

UCD and it certainly was not

Daragh101

Im thinking of doing business in U.L. The reasons I pick U.L is because they do a 8month paid work placement, and also they have a virtual trading floor in the business school!.
Would this be a good course to get a job in the industry, or do they generally look for people from different courses than this.?

Reillyman

Daragh101 wrote: »

Im thinking of doing business in U.L. The reasons I pick U.L is because they do a 8month paid work placement, and also they have a virtual trading floor in the business school!.
Would this be a good course to get a job in the industry, or do they generally look for people from different courses than this.?

Is the UL work placement paid?

nkay1985

Reillyman wrote: »

Is the UL work placement paid?

Any work placements that were there when I was in UL were paid alright. I have a feeling it's a prerequisite for taking a UL student on placement, designed to stop companies just coming in and taking huge numbers of students for free.

I got lucky with my placement and was earning about €450 a week! A lot of others I know were on betweem €200 and €300. This was in 2006.

Vurnon San Benito

Idu, credit to you man, long may your fortune continue.

I've always been interested in trading and I suppose putting it short, making money.
I used the above link using virtual money for a while years back and was doing alright too.

I'm just wodnering how you get involved in this work after the Leaving Cert? Are their necessary courses, qualifications etc?

I would like to think I have a head for it, and would be willing to put a loss behind me. Only one way to find out I suppose.

I've read the whole thread and it's fascinating stuff, something I'd be very much interested in, and not just the 6 figure sums

So, what direction would I take if I wanted to pursue this after the L.C?
Cheers.

Vurnon San Benito

Is this guy gone ?

cremeegg

great thread...

Idu... does it take a lot of disipline not to dive into something too much... id be too gungho i think... highly competitive in everything i do... but perhaps too reckless..

anyways fair play chief...

one other thing... u got a better half.... she ok with the long days?!

freeze4real

It's been a while since Idu has posted here. I'll just like to make some few comments. 

His type if trading is propitiatory sp it's highly quantitave based. 

Like what he said on page qualities which firm want from employees will be those nerdy type but physically active. 

In monetary terms it's pays well. 

In terms of education those etha quant background are highly favored e.g maths astro physicist etcs


Interview process you would be looking to know how to solve some probabilities in a few seconds. 

There a few proprietary trading firms like positive equity, Statestreet Geneva trading and Susquehanna oh and first derivatives.  

I know a lot about susquehanna. Grad positions pays €55000 per yr + 10% bonus. Plus free breakfast and lunch plus other packages. 

Having a trading background like I do, doesn't  give you some sort of edge in proprietary trading firms but there some other firms were traders trades are not based on maths but there a few in Ireland. 



Any one that wants to pursue a career in this must take the route of pure maths r.g actuary or less or more.

TomRooney

freeze4real wrote: »

It's been a while since Idu has posted here. I'll just like to make some few comments. 

His type if trading is propitiatory sp it's highly quantitave based. 

Like what he said on page qualities which firm want from employees will be those nerdy type but physically active. 

In monetary terms it's pays well. 

In terms of education those etha quant background are highly favored e.g maths astro physicist etcs


Interview process you would be looking to know how to solve some probabilities in a few seconds. 

There a few proprietary trading firms like positive equity, Statestreet Geneva trading and Susquehanna oh and first derivatives.  

I know a lot about susquehanna. Grad positions pays €55000 per yr + 10% bonus. Plus free breakfast and lunch plus other packages. 

Having a trading background like I do, doesn't  give you some sort of edge in proprietary trading firms but there some other firms were traders trades are not based on maths but there a few in Ireland. 



Any one that wants to pursue a career in this must take the route of pure maths r.g actuary or less or more.

I'm trying to pursue a career in trading myself and have made a few contacts who are already working as prop traders.

According to them Mathematics has very little to do with actual trading and being a maths wizz certainly doesn't mean you will be a good trader, also the majority of traders would not have purely maths based degrees so I think you may be over emphasising that area as a pre-requisite to pursuing a career in trading.

freeze4real

TomRooney wrote: »

I'm trying to pursue a career in trading myself and have made a few contacts who are already working as prop traders.

According to them Mathematics has very little to do with actual trading and being a maths wizz certainly doesn't mean you will be a good trader, also the majority of traders would not have purely maths based degrees so I think you may be over emphasizing that area as a pre-requisite to pursuing a career in trading.

You may be right in saying that I'm over emphasizing the importance of maths, but like I reiterate the importance of having a solid maths background as v.important as those who have it are given 1st places for interviews/ jobs over those who dont have it.


Also you need to have a solid analytical reasoning which mainly from professions like computer engineering etc. you will need for interviews as they're probability based.


My bro works for a prop firm and he wasn't asked as he is a computer engineer, but if he was he said he wouldn't have answered any right as his maths his poor, he's been there for some months now and he's only used maths in writing some software not in trading as you said you really dont need it.

I've had the chance to visit some trading firms in Ireland and I will tell you these that over 85% from those trading come from a mathematical background. And in places like Ireland Prop trading is common because of several reasons like trading isn't that popular here but there's an IT boom with a lot programmers coming out from colleges.

In places like the city in London or wallstreet or in Canada as well you'll find that guys read wallstreet journals or economic articles etc are popular e.g 65% but prop firms are taking over.

I'm from an economics background, I'm trading ATM with good results but there's no guarantee that I will get a job as a prop trader if I wanted to.


Funny thing is you dont really apply or the mathsy stuff that you learn.

TomRooney

freeze4real wrote: »

You may be right in saying that I'm over emphasizing the importance of maths, but like I reiterate the importance of having a solid maths background as v.important as those who have it are given 1st places for interviews/ jobs over those who dont have it.


Also you need to have a solid analytical reasoning which mainly from professuons like computer engineering etc. you will need for interviews as they're probability based.


My bro works for a prop firm and he wasn't asked as he is a computer engineer, but if he was he said he wouldn't have answered any right as his maths his poor, he's been there for some months now and he's only used maths in writing some software not in trading as you said you really dont need it.

I've had the chance to visit some trading firms in irland and I will tell you these that over 85% from those trading come from a mathematical background. And in places like Ireland Prop trading is common because of several readons like trading isnt that popular here but theresan ITboom with alot programmers coming out from colleges.

In places like the city in London or wallstreet or in Canada as well you'll find that guys read wallstreet journals or economic articles etc are popular e.g 65% but prop firms are taking over.

I'm from an economics background, I'm trading ATM with good results but there's no guarantee that I will get a job as a prop trader if I wanted to.


Funny thing is you dont really apply or the mathsy stuff that you learn.

Thanks for the info and clarification.
I'm currently doing a degree in business studies part time but hope to get a start as a trainee prop trader in the near future.
I wouldn't be bad at general maths but I've never studied advanced theories of mathematics but I want to do it so I'll try regardless.

vanderlyvagen

Idu wrote: »

Ha ha I think thats him just being hyperbolic. In my entry class 4 of 8 are still with the company and of the next 14 all but 2 are still here. Of course the next class could only have 1 successful trader. I think 80% is way too high though

Having traded for over a decade, I think your retention ratios are almost miraculous, congratulations! My experience is close to 90% won't make it and that's having been exposed to a number of different firms. If indeed 4/8 of your class are still there and 12/14 of the next class, my next question would be, how many of them are making enough to pay themselves even a basic standard of living. From experience, I would estimate 1 or 2 from each class. I believe you're involved in actively promoting your firm. Maybe you guys have found the holy grail in trading, I doubt it though!:D

Idu

vanderlyvagen wrote: »

Having traded for over a decade, I think your retention ratios are almost miraculous, congratulations! My experience is close to 90% won't make it and that's having been exposed to a number of different firms. If indeed 4/8 of your class are still there and 12/14 of the next class, my next question would be, how many of them are making enough to pay themselves even a basic standard of living. From experience, I would estimate 1 or 2 from each class. I believe you're involved in actively promoting your firm. Maybe you guys have found the holy grail in trading, I doubt it though!:D

I don't work for that company anymore so I've no interest in promoting it(never had either) but those figures are accurate. Of the 4/8 and 12/14 I know that all are living well above a basic standard of living. I do agree with you that this success rate is very high but I think that, having heard of how a few firms in London run their training, they are afforded extra time and attention until they make a breakthrough