From Pad to Stick

L31mr0d

Sisko wrote: »

Cheers guys.

Might be an idea to film peoples hands at the next meet up. I know the way I use the stick and buttons is far from perfect. I can't easily do dashes and combos when facing left compared to when I'm facing right. I also have to completely move my hand to do a grab or focus attack.

For grabs I move my middle finger on LP and my index finger onto LK. For normals my index finger is usually on LP and my middle is over MP.

animaX

Yeah i thought it was nice to see his hands too. I think everyone has their own way of doing things, whatever is most comfortable. I too would use my thumb for lk, mk, hk and would use index finger for lp, middle finger for mp and baby finger for hp (maybe). I use thumb+index for throws and thumb+middle for focus.

It's not a great style to be honest because my thumb is doing too much work and I have to shift my hand position in order to do ex moves which involve kicks. Nevertheless I am used to it. If i try to hit kicks with a different finger I'm not too confident that my brain would know exactly where the button is (although it would eventually adjust).

Edit: @sisko: i think you have footage of my hands doing an ex-messiah fadc ultra in our last fight. I'd be interested in seeing all of that if you still have it.

Sagat06

Index = light kick & puch
Middle = strong kick & punch
Ring = fierce kick & punch
Throw = index & thumb
focus = middle & thumb

Its great watching the pro's hands, their inputs seem so slow but precise. Puts my mashing hands to shame anyway!!

A-Trak

I'm nowhere near my stick, and I've no idea what fingers I use for what, I simply don't know.

I've never even thought about it

(I probably just use a fist and mash the fook out of the whole thing)

Will let you know when I get home.

Sisko

L31mr0d wrote: »

lol I'm aware alright , I dunno how else to explain it all with less text.

What I'm interested in is how , finger press by finger press, people hit their specific combos/links for their character.

animaX wrote: »

I too would use my thumb for lk, mk, hk and would use index finger for lp, middle finger for mp and baby finger for hp (maybe).

Now this seems like a lot of movement. I deffo wouldn't be using thumb for HK, and no way do I use my baby finger.

animaX wrote: »

It's not a great style to be honest because my thumb is doing too much work and I have to shift my hand position in order to do ex moves which involve kicks. Nevertheless I am used to it.

Yeah, the way I press buttons, my hand actually doesnt move around at all. Just my fingers. For example if cmk > fireball. My thumb folders under my hand to hit the MK while my index hits LP.

This all gets very mess the more moves I add and start doing fancy fadcing and so forth.

You seem to have no execution issues though, but then again I dunno what inputs you'd need to be doing as I dunno rufus.

animaX wrote: »

If i try to hit kicks with a different finger I'm not too confident that my brain would know exactly where the button is (although it would eventually adjust).

Indeed, I'm starting to think I should maybe scrap how I'm doing things and start re-learning and hit things the way Jwong does while I'm still in the learning stage.

animaX wrote: »

Edit: @sisko: i think you have footage of my hands doing an ex-messiah fadc ultra in our last fight. I'd be interested in seeing all of that if you still have it.

Yeah barry panned down and zoomed in on your hands just as you went to do the fadc etc, the camera moves back up pretty quick, but you should still be able to see what you did, and I'll can easily add the gameplay footage along with it so you can see whats happening on screen too.


I could slap it on a USB key and give it to yeah next time I'm around DCU (prob tomorrow actually) or otherwise chuck it up on youtube.

A-Trak wrote: »

I'm nowhere near my stick, and I've no idea what fingers I use for what, I simply don't know.

I've never even thought about it

(I probably just use a fist and mash the fook out of the whole thing)

Will let you know when I get home.

hehe yeah I actually had my stick on my lap and went through my b&b combos while making the post just to be sure.

animaX

Sisko wrote: »

You seem to have no execution issues though, but then again I dunno what inputs you'd need to be doing as I dunno rufus.

Yeah barry panned down and zoomed in on your hands just as you went to do the fadc etc, the camera moves back up pretty quick, but you should still be able to see what you did, and I'll can easily add the gameplay footage along with it so you can see whats happening on screen too.

I could just it on a USB key and give it to yeah next time I'm around DCU (prob tomorrow actually) or otherwise chuck it up on youtube.

Rufus suits my hand style really well, one of the reasons i made the big switch. My thumb is perfectly placed for spamming dive kicks!

Yeah I saw it in the intro but i wasn't sure if there was more of it or if you edited some out. Sure give it to me on usb if you're in DCU!

Sisko

Theres a few more seconds to it yeah. I'll be around DCU doing group work from 11 on, dunno what time we'll be done, prob 1 or 2. I'll text yea anyway.

Sisko

Terry, turns out I wont be in DCU till Thursday,

but I have a vid that may interest you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyxqqhAlJ6M

animaX

Sisko wrote: »

Terry, turns out I wont be in DCU till Thursday,

but I have a vid that may interest you

Yeah i saw that vid before. He whiffs an ultra after jumping roundhouse! Strange thing is, he does an fadc backwards at 29-30 seconds but if you look at his left hand it looks like he's pressed back only once?!

Sisko

So I've had my stick fully sanwa'd and slapped on reddzers octo gate.


1st and foremost. Having nice the higher quality parts is fantastic.

I don't need to go much into this, its just better , we all know its better. If you a pad player and can't understand this , well think about how a shitty 8 euro gamestop control pad feels like , think about entering moves combos and links on that thing. Think about how that feels versus doing the same moves on your 360 pad or ps3 pad.

Its just a massive difference in quality and it does help execution.

---

However what I really want to talk about here is the octo gate.


Its so strange. It feels so fantastic and fluid when I want to do sonic booms, flash kicks, dragon punches are so much faster, and fireballs.

Whats the problem you may ask?

JUMPING AND BLOCKING.

Big ****ing problem. I keep missing those diagonals , constantly neutral jumping when I wanna jump forward. sometimes I don't even jump at all , I just walk forward a little.

Then I'd be trying to crouch and block low, I start walking backwards. Or eating all the low its of a combo.

I never tried the square with my new parts. I put the octo on right away. I'm gonna try square again to see if my old problems from my old parts with a square gate are still there.

These issues were this :

2 years to enter in dragon punch motion.

Wiffed DP's FB's more then I'd like, a dangerous amount when playing high level players.

Charge moves for some reason just didn't feel as fluid, no farzad specials for me, no chun li would rather do a wake up standing medium kick. Cheers chunny.

Oh whats that guile? You wanna jump straight up in the air and kick and not flash kick? Fair enough.... yea prick...


Not nice when you've landed that rare jump in with guile and you wanna combo into medium punch to flash kick...

And I'll get more punches then sonic booms.


Its strange how the octo fixed all this stuff for me instantly, or maybe it was the parts too. We'll see.


I still plan to try this mod btw :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QytcbzZmXaI

**edit**


Note I just want to add, that I've started using a little table to rest my stick on when playing instead of having it on my lap. This seems to really improve things. It needs to be a certain height though. I can imagine this is where the TE is good, much better for playing on your lap.

The tables at XGC would be too high for me to play on , so I wouldn't be doing what paul does. Maybe a chair will do but probably not enough room. Ah well.

Dreddybajs

Octogates are awful, any pad player that wants to learn stick can do so as well on a square gate as an octogate imo. Once you learn a square gate you'll be hitting the motions in the same way as the octogate restricts you to being able to do, without the difficulties that you state in the post. Plus you won't be completely bollocksed when you go to use someone else's stick (which will almost certainly be a square gate).

Have said all this before though so if people want to use an octogate, fair enough.

Ramza

For face buttons my EX2 has standard six, no extra buttons to get in the way :pac:

This will probably sound weird, but this is just how my hand works on stick

When I rest my hand flat on stick/default position, my index is on lp, my middle and ring are on mp and my baby finger is on hp

I don't use my baby finger/thumb while playing, I just don't. Only first three. I only use thumb/baby finger when doing SGS, that's it.

When I plin the fingers I'll use will depennd on the button I'm plinking ; for hp link I will hit hp and mp with ring on hp and middle on mp, for mp links I will place middle on mp and index on lp

I hit EX really stranegly ; when I am EXing for punch moves, I will use index and middle on lp and mp, however for EX for kicks I will use my index and middle finger on lk and hk

Sisko

Interesting, sounds like your using a better method then me. I don't plink either.

You play some ryu ramza, tell me how you'd enter these B&B combos:

c.lk - c.lp - c.mk -> FB


J.hp/hk - c.mp - c.hp->ex tatsu

cheers.

Ramza

Sisko wrote: »

Interesting, sounds like your using a better method then me. I don't plink either.

You play some ryu ramza, tell me how you'd enter these B&B combos:

c.lk - c.lp - c.mk -> FB


J.hp/hk - c.mp - c.hp->ex tatsu

cheers.

1. c.lk(index), c.lp(middle), c.mk(middle) > FB (depends on strength)

2. J.hp/hk(ring), c.mp(middle), c.hp(ring) > ex tatsu(using hk and lk)(index and ring)

Sisko

I just forgot but I better add to this :

Whats the problem you may ask?

JUMPING AND BLOCKING.

Big ****ing problem. I keep missing those diagonals , constantly neutral jumping when I wanna jump forward. sometimes I don't even jump at all , I just walk forward a little.

Then I'd be trying to crouch and block low, I start walking backwards. Or eating all the low its of a combo.

The next day I put the square gate back in and I had the same issues.

I had tried out putting some tape on the stick like in that vid but only quickly as a test. It didnt seem to do anything but it turned out this was why.

Took the tape off and I'm back on the octo, all good so far cept dashing. I'm now worse at dashing getting trapped in focus attacks a lot more and ****.



@ Ramza


yeah I'm really thinking the way I use my fingers is damaging my ability to be nice and clean with my execution. I'm ****ing sick of fadcing normals which should have led to a sweet combo into ultra :mad::pac:

Find it so hard not to use my thumb though.

animaX

Sisko wrote: »

Find it so hard not to use my thumb though.

Do whatever's comfortable I say!

Sairus

I'm finally starting to feel comfortable on my stick after a couple of weeks on-and-off. I still have to think about where my fingers are half of the time, which completely kills my execution speed but I can see some definite improvement over the last few days.
One thing that I've found much easier on a stick are Guile's and Vega's Ultras. I've always been atrocious at doing them, but I can do em two out of three times on stick without much effort.

Sisko

So now I'm a stick player. Can't imagine playing ibuki on a pad. I still wonder about finger placement and stuff and not convinced the most 'natural/comfortable' placement = best execution.

But thats not what I wanna talk about here. I still have issues with dashing.

You'd think that hitting left or right twice on the stick to dash shouldnt be an issue but so many times I find my self trapped in focus attacks and what not, despite entering the dash command about 50 times my character does nothing.

Sometimes , to my surprise I can visually see this happening. My character vibrated on the screen but does not dash which makes no sense to me.

I recently uploaded a silly ibuki video, at the end of it, I added an example of this , with this post/thread in mind so people can see what I'm talking about. Cause I'm not really sure wtf I'm doing wrong.

1:35 :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uhYqwKA1jQ

Note I'm entering in back dash like a motherfucker the entire time makoto is hitting me, with the hope of dashing backwards once her combo is done.

But NOOOOOOoooooooooooooooo ibuki just vibrates there for a second before the game decided 'hmmm I wonder why the back comand has been entered 170 times in the past 2 seconds, maybe he wants to back dash... "

and ibuki finally starts back dashing. :pac: luckley the makoto didnt punsih the **** out of me, more often then not something like this costs me a round.

animaX

Haha, i didn't realise you made that video yourself!

Not sure what's going on with the dashing, might be something to do with the stick not resetting back to neutral after the first input. Maybe you're actuator is too wide (you did the widening mod didn't you?)

Doctor DooM

I do this too when trying to dash ultra occasionally. I think as Animerry said it's because you're not hitting neutral correctly.

Scavenger XIII

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I do this too when trying to dash ultra occasionally.

Ditto. Thankfully Knee to ultra makes for a nice poor mans dash ultra if you're not feeling it.

Sisko

I thought this might be it but then I thought surely if this is the case then ibuki wouldn't move at all or if she did she'd at least walk backwards or something no? As the game would read it as me holding back instead of dashing ?

K.O.Kiki

Could be lag?

Or maybe it's because the JLF on octo sucks :pac:

Sisko

Don't think it was lag at all this happens to me in offline games (trapped in focus attacks etc)

Gate wouldn't make any difference.

Doctor DooM

Sisko wrote: »

Don't think it was lag at all this happens to me in offline games (trapped in focus attacks etc)

Gate wouldn't make any difference.

It doesn't happen to me when I slow the motion slightly and control it (much like hitting FADC ultra with Ryu, too fast and you mess it up).

Sisko

You mean I'm dashing too fast hmm interesting you use the ryu example too.

On pad I'd just dash , hit the d-pad forward as fast as my thumb let me.

It was only well after I was into learning stick that I 1st ever encountered doing ryu's ultra too early, so maybe that is it alright, I'm still applying the methods I did on d-pad , or the rhythm I should say. I guess I just gotta change this. I'll try to take a mental note.

As sometimes I actually don't even try to dash in some situations where it'd help me, for fear of fucking it up and leaving my self wide wide open. Never mind all the times I've been raped while stuck in a focus attack.

Horsefumbler

I'm gonna be switching to stick soon. I can't really get any worse so I'm fairly hopefull

Sisko

Good luck man!


Back to what I was saying, at Terrys DCU event Redman was talking to me about the dashing issue and said its likely due to the way I grip the stick which causes me to hit the opposite direction while franticlly trying to dash.

Reason being apon attemped recreation of that odd twitching, it seems impossible for that to happen without the opposite direction being hit also. I reackon he's right.

I'm still generally very clumbsy on stick full stop, even though now I feel more comfortable on stick than pad. At least on my stick anyway. Tried using dreddies/roogles semistu TE and I may as well have no been playing.

Scavenger XIII

That would be consistent with the fact that I only seem to get that when I fluff a dash-sonic hurricane attempt, since that involves fwd-fwd-bck-fwd.