From Pad to Stick

Cunny-Funt

So after years of using a PS style pad I finally got a stick. It's pretty cool finally having it I must say, its a lovely piece of kit (although 70 euro is sooo much money >.<)

So its been two days, and I'm no where near as useless with it as I thought I'd be but I'm still extremely....extremely bad with it, but it has only been two days so I'm hopeful.

I'm concentrating fully on shotos atm. Since they have always been my main characters but my issues seem to be this :

My right hand doesn't know wtf to do, where the **** to go. HK is a big problem for me atm. I'm used to HK being 'behind' HP (t'was R2 on a ps3 pad) so my hand seems to want to press HP all the time when I wanna sweep and so forth.

I'm not really sure where to put my fingers it seems, HP into HK tatsu feels really odd, and something as basic as HP into ex tatsu on reaction is off the cards atm.

I knew getting used to a 6 button layout would be my 1st issue alright though. But its also I'm just not used to having to move my right hand so much.

But all these issues are muscle memory. Just have to figure out the best position for my right hand and which fingers to which buttons for each move.

The stick part isnt as bad as I thought it'd be either. But there is of course the typical unwanted jumps and stuff. Dashing is harder, and my ability to block well is iffy. But I can generally do most standard shoto moves. Although I'm having issues with a lot of B&B combos like c.mk>fb/tatsu.

Things like super canceling and all that fancy fadc stuff are out the window currently.

Whats interesting though is when I had a quick shot of HDR, I wasnt able to dragon punch at all... I dunno wtf... I could dp all day on a pad.

Charge characters on the other hand are a lot harder then I assumed they'd be. Sonic booms and flash kicks and spinning bird kicks are wiffing like crazy.

However ex legs into ultra is really really feckin easy to do on a stick.

Anyway its only been 2 days so hopefully it wont take me too long to get to the same level as I was on a pad, I got a stick in the hopes it'd improve my game as well as wanting to have a more universal controller.

Any advice/input/opinions would be cool. I'm sure most of you have been using sticks forever though so probably can't appreciate how weird it is switching.

K.O.Kiki

First advice: fix the metal washer inside the joystick with some superglue
Or get a replacement joystick since, IMHO, the standard stick of the SE is garbage (I don't even know who the heck makes the microswitches - they say QUMRON, not OMRON).
But the washer issue is to prevent it from accidentally screwing up your stick's PCB (and IDC what MadCatz say, they won't ever, ever fix it. It's a design defect)

Second advice: lots of practice

Cunny-Funt

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

First advice: fix the metal washer inside the joystick with some superglue

I thought that was only an issue with the earlier models? I'm really not arsed taking my stick apart just yet. I'd like to get used to it 1st

About how the stick part itself is considered ****. Apart from different 'gates', when I had quick goes of peoples fightsticks at the meets I wouldn't notice a difference at all. So now that I'll have spent a bit of time with my SE I look forward to trying out other peoples to see if I start noticing the differences.

Also to see what suits me better etc.

Kirby

I'm wavering aswell. Part of me wants to play with a stick. It's cooler, and looks like great fun. But the other part, the practical part, thinks that after eight months worth of muscle memory on my pad....I'll never be as good on a stick. Atleast not without a hundred hours of practice.

Fair played to you mate. Hopefully you will get used to it and own big time at the next meet up.

FoamyMushroom

Comming from a pad only player which has it draw backs..

Only thing I can say is keep it in practise, practise and dont rage!! Find a button schyme that your comphy with just keep getting more n more experience when you can like bring it to the casual's cause im sure the stick user's there will most likely help ya out with some stuff, One thing tho, for tourneys and stitch I'd use a pad because its something your more familier with.

Retr0gamer

I had awful trouble trying to get used to the stick when I first got it but now I'll never look back. It's sp much better.

Cunny-Funt

@ Kirby

Next meet up that I can make it too I reckon I'll still be rocking a ps pad but cheers anyway

Unless I somehow do master one in 2 weeks. I never hear of such a think anyway. Its months from what I hear.

Time will tell. I reckon since you already use a 6 button layout, and sim isnt based around combos you'd be a few steps a head of me in learning a stick.

But I dunno everyone's different, I'm hoping the fact that I used to play keyboards as a kid'll help somewhat... :P :rolleyes:

heh heh heh...

@ Retro How long did it take you though? & I suppose how long you were playing SF on a pad also is a factor too? I used a ps3 pad for nearly 2 years of 3s online play and now almost a year of SFIV.


**edit** one thing I forgot to say in my OP. About the SE, I wish the buttons were a little higher on the stick so I've more room for my hand. Not a massive big deal but its something that struck me after using it for awhile. Still I like the SE's over all size.

FoamyMushroom

Actually on this subject..

I think its a lil weird that I can pull of some stuff with Ryu on stick that I cant on pad... such as EX FB FADC ultra... or Srk Fadc Ultra... the F*ck?

Im better with ryu on stick than pad, Im muck with Akuma on stick and apparently real good with him on pad?

Kirby

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

@ Kirby



Time will tell. I reckon since you already use a 6 button layout, and sim isnt based around combos you'd be a few steps a head of me in learning a stick.
.

The six button layout is true. But with a pad i hit all the buttons with my thumb....on a stick you use all of your fingers.

The sim combo thing is true. It's mostly normals. Sim is very technical though, he has a different counter for many situations....where only that move will work. I'm pretty quick to react on the pad and I would be sh*t slow on a stick not knowing what to press and where my hand should be

What I might do is get a stick and practice on it. Still use the pad when I want to actually win I'm going to america after christmas so I might try pick a TE up over there for cheap money. Practice with it and maybe be up to a competent level for when super 4 comes out. Makes sense as everybody will be learning new stuff then anyway and it would level the field out a bit.

Doctor DooM

Cunny/ kirby, you'll be amazed how quickly the muscle memory transfers.

The right hand is the initial major issue, but you'll find a natural way of holding it- I notice most people kind of splay the four fingers so it's a short trip to any button in a hurry. Azza's style is bizarrely laconic (seriously, watch him going for a throw, it's like he's picking up a cup of tea) for example, whereas A-Traks is FURIOUS. I like controlled bursts of violence You find your level. Everyone's style is different.

I'm actually at a point now where I am comfortable enough with pad or stick, which is weird. I prefer stick- but I can usually live with a pad. My pad muscle memory comes back after a few games (I played MvC2 for years on a pad).

I got alot of unintentional jumps with the SE stick as well. I'm not a massive fan. I think part of it is not having the stick centered correctly on your lap so left is really left-up.

chopperbyrne

Free wins on Cunny for a few weeks!



I'd advise not to go back to pad for any meetups or comps as it will just be detrimental to learning how to play on stick. No point wasting that €70.

bush

Ye ditch the pad completely, its thd best way to learn even if it pisses you off.

FutureGuy

bush wrote: »

Ye ditch the pad completely, its thd best way to learn even if it pisses you off.

Completely agree with Bush. When I stated with my TE stick I found it awful...after 15 years with a pad, I just couldn't use it properly and I actually reverted back to my xbox pad. Hoever, I bit the bullet and just started taking my defeats on the chin and learning to play with it. I'm now a much better player for it.

I tried playing with the pad recently, and although it's still fine to play with, I just prefer the quickness of the stick.

I'd actually love to see vids of the top players which show their finger movements/positions during play.

Placebo

try holding it diferent ways, i hold it like a wine glass, then stick to what suits best. takes a few weeks to get used to it

blag

Something I'd advise is to only use the 6 buttons and not use the extra buttons for 3p and 3k.

I learned to play stick on 6 button arcade cabs and can only imagine that if you're feeling your way around a new stick that the extra buttons would do nothing but over complicate things unnecessarily.

Also with 6 buttons your fingers sit naturally over the butons and there's no need to shift your hand over to hit the extra buttons.

I personally use mp+fp and mk+hk for ex moves which works out fine for me along with hitting the 3k's simultaneously for Ultra.

I've heard some people complaining of having difficulty with teching throws with an 8 button set up due to hand spacing on the buttons.

Retr0gamer

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

@ Retro How long did it take you though? & I suppose how long you were playing SF on a pad also is a factor too? I used a ps3 pad for nearly 2 years of 3s online play and now almost a year of SFIV.

I'm not too sure. It took me a while before I was comfortable doing specials and a bit longer for ultra motions. Youjust have to buils up muscel memory of were the movement positions are on the stick. I used to use the 3p and 3k buttons as well but stopped using them so it's taking time to learn that now. Doesn't help that my brother has stolen my xbox either so haven't practiced in a while. I had much less trouble than with a fightpad though which I hated after coming off a saturn controller and MS sidewinder MK1.

Doctor DooM

blag wrote: »

I've heard some people complaining of having difficulty with teching throws with an 8 button set up due to hand spacing on the buttons.

This is true. I've recently gone back to 6 button (pure laziness, learned in arcades) and teching is much quicker.

L31mr0d

It's all just practice and time. For me I found it was like taking the brakes off when I moved from pad to stick. Plus all the advice and videos out there are mainly for stick users.

Dreddybajs

Completely agree with blag on using a 6-button setup.

Sounds like you're adapting to stick faster than the average player Cunny - not being able to do DPs in HDR is probably just because they are a lot harder to execute and you can't use the lenient inputs that you can in SF4 - honestly I'd say playing a good amount of HDR while adjusting to the stick would be a good plan as you're learning on a game where your inputs need to be more precise than SF4, which could help with other games (rather than learning on SF4 and having trouble doing some inputs when you switch to games with stricter input systems).

K.O.Kiki

FutureGuy wrote:

I'd actually love to see vids of the top players which show their finger movements/positions during play.

Daigo "The Beast" Umehara (3rd Strike)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJLTa_eBLAo

ShinZ aka Akirakid (Virtua Fighter)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qea-PzptETQ

Jang Iksu (Tekken)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ4fAqSInnc

rebeljin (Tekken)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LePBqr7h9mg

Jim

I practiced with a stick for a good few months but ultimately I went back to pad. I'm just so much better with it. I think A-Trak commented at Lanparty "It was like fighting a whole different Cammy", it was that day I switched back to pad heh. The one thing that puts me off the stick is that I can't do dive kicks...at all....ever. Its extremely frustrating. A few other motions I whiff alot (hooligan throw, spin knuckle etc) but that's just down to more practice I reckon.

But dive kicks..ARGH. I'll stick with the pad (a difficult sentence) for the moment for meets / tournys but gonna practice with the stick at home with the aim of one day replacing my pad (damn you custom stick thread!)

bush

Jim wrote: »

I practiced with a stick for a good few months but ultimately I went back to pad. I'm just so much better with it. I think A-Trak commented at Lanparty "It was like fighting a whole different Cammy", it was that day I switched back to pad heh. The one thing that puts me off the stick is that I can't do dive kicks...at all....ever. Its extremely frustrating. A few other motions I whiff alot (hooligan throw, spin knuckle etc) but that's just down to more practice I reckon.

But dive kicks..ARGH. I'll stick with the pad (a difficult sentence) for the moment for meets / tournys but gonna practice with the stick at home with the aim of one day replacing my pad (damn you custom stick thread!)

I have problems doing some moves on the left side with a stick. I couldnt even do ultras on the left side for ages and I still cant do them in certain situations.

I was messing around with cammy in training the other day and I could do instant dive kicks on the right side no problem but couldnt even do 1 on the left side.

Retr0gamer

Diagos button presses are so controlled I'm more of a clumsy masher.

Doctor DooM

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Diagos button presses are so controlled I'm more of a clumsy masher.

It's just like playing guitar- someone who's really skilled makes small, controlled motions. You never see world class (which is different to professional) guitarists making wide strokes while playing.

Retr0gamer

Well that explains a lot. I've been learning the guitar for 2 years and I'm still ****.

Doctor DooM

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Well that explains a lot. I've been learning the guitar for 2 years and I'm still ****.

Good guitar playing is all about techniquie, muscle memory, adaptation and using exactly the right amount of force at the right time. Exactly like using a stick well

Placebo

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Good guitar playing is all about techniquie, muscle memory, adaptation and using exactly the right amount of force at the right time. Exactly like using a stick well

that sounds like a sex tip

Doctor DooM

Placebo wrote: »

that sounds like a sex tip

The DooM is a master of many arts.

Cunny-Funt

Rofl^


Ok to answer a few posts:

Kirby wrote: »

What I might do is get a stick and practice on it. Still use the pad when I want to actually win I'm going to america after christmas so I might try pick a TE up over there for cheap money. Practice with it and maybe be up to a competent level for when super 4 comes out. Makes sense as everybody will be learning new stuff then anyway and it would level the field out a bit.

This is what I'm thinking too.

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I'm actually at a point now where I am comfortable enough with pad or stick, which is weird. I prefer stick- but I can usually live with a pad.

Ah right I always thought you a were pure stick player since you were saying you played back in the arcades.

chopperbyrne wrote: »

I'd advise not to go back to pad for any meetups or comps as it will just be detrimental to learning how to play on stick. No point wasting that €70.

bush wrote: »

Ye ditch the pad completely, its thd best way to learn even if it pisses you off.

This is advice I'm going to find really hard to take. Its not so much that I mind losing, but if I'm at a meet up or playing a tourney and I'm as good/bad with a stick as I am now, I'm gonna play pad... I wanna give people a good game.

I'm playing stick online and such and actually beating people but thats cause so far I seem to be facing flowchart kens or people of that level. Ryan is learning stick too so we've been having some fun ryu v ryu stick noob matches although he's far far less of a stick noob then me. But if I'm gonna be playing some high level stuff theres no way in hell I'm using a stick. (currently)

I'm incapable of any sort of advanced play right now. I have to put thought into basic inputs. Inputs that should normally done with out any thought at all. Which makes me feel retarded. Its like learning to walk again almost

But I'd deffo be up for a few casual games next time with the stick and trying out other peoples.

I wont be reverting back, I'll just be going back and forth between the two for a while. Thats why I ordered converters as well as a stick. Indeed this will probably increase the time it takes to get used to it.

Placebo wrote: »

try holding it diferent ways, i hold it like a wine glass, then stick to what suits best. takes a few weeks to get used to it

Yeah thats what I'm doing atm, I'm generally okay in that area, its my right hand thats an issue for me atm.

blag wrote: »

Something I'd advise is to only use the 6 buttons and not use the extra buttons for 3p and 3k.

This is what I'm doing. Sure its easier anyway. I also found my little finger kept hitting L2 (bottom black button) so I actually have to turn off those buttons.

Which is a pity, I liked the idea of just using the default layout and not having to mess with it, liek I have when I use a ps3 pad, but ah well.

Question. I'm currently using the japanese style layout (white buttons only) Any reason to stick with that or maybe switch to american style?

Also the switch that lets you set the stick from LS to DP. Does the actual stick itself pick up inputs differently with these setting, or are they purely just for making it easier for use with other games?

Dreddybajs

You just set it to Controller (not Arcade stick) type A and then disable the 3P and 3K things anyway on the SE, it's simple.

edit: And most players afaik prefer using the curved layout rather than the straight out. It's just more comfortable, no advantage to using the straight layout imo.

Cobelcog

I'm in the same boat as Kirby pretty much. I've always used a pad and am pretty good at pulling off what I want to do semi-consistently. I'm aware that a stick would ultimately be the better controller to be good with but I've always just been put off by the large period of adjustment that goes with it. Nice work making the leap, Cunny, I hope it all works out soon enough. It'll be interesting to see your progress with it, it might just be the push I need.

Ry

I'm on my 4th day with stick and I'm enjoying it a lot actually. I'm throwing out a lot of unwanted moves and missing some too but I know that'll come with practice.

My problem though is left to right ultras with Ryu because I just can't do 2 quarter circle motions fast when facing right. It's driving me nuts. Whatever way I'm holding it I just can't seem to cleanly execute the 2 movements with my left hand.

Any tips on good method of holding the stick to do this? I'm right handed so it's my bad hand inputing the directional commands.

Ry

Doctor DooM

Go into practice mode and try it really, really slowly.

Find the slowest speed you can do it at. Slowly increase from there.

Get used to hitting all the inputs (are you dragon punching instead?)

Try and do it in game as much as possible in casuals.

Cunny-Funt

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2009/jul/08/tips-switching-pad-joystick/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsME37GrqjY

Ry

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Go into practice mode and try it really, really slowly.

Find the slowest speed you can do it at. Slowly increase from there.

Get used to hitting all the inputs (are you dragon punching instead?)

Try and do it in game as much as possible in casuals.

To be honest I usually hado or if I've the guage ex hado which is something but not the ultra I want exactly when I need it ye know.

Ry

Doctor DooM

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2009/jul/08/tips-switching-pad-joystick/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsME37GrqjY

My own grip.



Awesome.

Doctor DooM

Ry wrote: »

To be honest I usually hado or if I've the guage ex hado which is something but not the ultra I want exactly when I need it ye know.

Ry

that means you need to work on your execution, only 1 of the fireballs is complete.

Seriously try what I said above, start with ridiculously slow and work your way up. You need to make sure you're hitting every point.

Also, that video missed out my style. Not even sure if it has a name.It's like a 2 fingered grip of Doom.

Red350

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

Question. I'm currently using the japanese style layout (white buttons only) Any reason to stick with that or maybe switch to american style?

Fun fact: Daigo used the american style at seasons beatings.

You wanna be like daigo right? :P

K.O.Kiki

Japanese style (Taito Vewlix) is curved as this should suit the shape of the hand better.

Cunny-Funt

Red350 wrote: »

You wanna be like daigo right? :P

I dunno I mean Daigo seems like a bit of an arsehole.

Last time I was talkin' to him he was all "Getcha red nosed, red bearded, potato eatin - alcoholic Irish ass out ma FACE beeeeeeeee aatch" and all I did was ask him what the weather was like in Japan. When I was talking to him about button layouts he was like "Muthafuka I'm the BEAST yo , I use what eva muthafukin buttons I FEEL like, Shhhhllt I dun even needs no button, I rape yo shlt with just a stick cuz I'm the BEAST yo, the fukin BEAST. I'm out this bitch" and then he FADCed me into an ultra and went on his way.

& we wernt even playing anything.


I dunno those Japanese are high strung.

K.O.Kiki

Amazing what jetlag does to people, eh?

Cunny-Funt

God damn the stick has already improved my game a bit. My chun li game that is

I still hit a wall with shotos but being able to so easily combo from 2 low shorts into ex legs to ultra is like a breath of fresh air with her. Also I can now pretty much do her ultra on reaction. Which I just couldn't do on the pad at all. Still a bit off with the ex SBK or any down to up flash kick motions.

My fingers still get confused when I try to play as a shoto, I mean I'd be getting stuff in training mode, but if I'm in an actual fight, where things are intense and you don't have time to have to concentrate on inputs I start throwing out c.HP's instead of a sweep and stuff.

& I'm also having issues with qcf x2 from the P1 side side.

Gonna work on cammy soon.

I'm looking forward to when muscle memory sets in, so my hands can do the 'thinking' in regards to inputs and my brain can concentrate on the fight

I have to say though, theres something about playing with a stick, its.. some how more fun.. but theres something else though.. I can't put my finger on it yet, but its like it kinda forces you to play smarter. More later anyway.

Doctor DooM

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

I have to say though, theres something about playing with a stick, its.. some how more fun.. but theres something else though.. I can't put my finger on it yet, but its like it kinda forces you to play smarter. More later anyway.

that'd probably be the spring.

Jim

After all my talk about dive kicks I actually managed to pull them off pretty easy yesterday on Terry's stick. Might invest in a octo/circle gate and see if that makes any difference.

Cunny-Funt

Doctor DooM wrote: »

that'd probably be the spring.

Its probably the fact that its killed by ability to rush down since I'm not fast enough on it yet thus finally squashed my old 3s habits..:rolleyes: we'll see

Jim wrote: »

After all my talk about dive kicks I actually managed to pull them off pretty easy yesterday on Terry's stick. Might invest in a octo/circle gate and see if that makes any difference.

You're saying you can't do cannon strikes with your SE? I reckon thats just how your holding it maybe? I don't have a problem doing that at all, in fact I can kinda do it off the ground now with the stick but not loads in a row. My main problem with cammy (I've only tested it with her for a few mins) is just her B&B stuff, I can't do HP>cannon strike at all, and mp cannon strike is do-able but it takes so much effort.

Once again button layout I guess.

At 5:07 in this vid on the screen on the right, on a pad I could do everything but the first part (the low cannon strike) now with a stick I can do that but have issues following up with the rest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hocdYlF6ulo

Jim

So I've decided to ditch the pad altogether and go fully stick. Played a few matches tonight and I have to say I'm alot better with the stick than I remember. Still not as good as with the pad ofc but for some reason the stick feels alot more accessible than it did the last time I used it.

Hopefully this wasn't just a once off!

BanjoB

Hey guys.
I've been on a stick a whole 7 months now and I have to say it's a SLOW process gettin decent with it. Be persistant and definately ditch the pad altogether (even after that 15 in a row losing streak!!!!) we've all had em, right....................right????.. .
I'm a chun player and I recently got an octo gate to help improve my shoto game and it really does make a difference.feels far more natural rolling out those quarter circles. Turns out it really helps my stomping with chun too. Could never find , down , on the square gate..any body else have that problem with her..
Any way. Keep up with the sticks lads. I'm very happy I did!!!.

bush

Ye i find it hard to do stomps with on the stick. Its piss easy to do on the pad, i used to like stomping people on wake up but rarely do it now cos i mess it up sometimes.

BanjoB

I never played with chun on pad. Charge character = sore thumbs for me on pad!!!. I think ur on my friendlist bush???. My tag is araforn. Should def have some mirror matches some time.

Kirby

The TE has a square gate right? whats the best octo stick out there by the way?

Dreddybajs

No sticks come with octogates afaik, they're for people who grew up with them in arcades, or can't get to grips with doing qc motions on square gates. Imo though anyone can easily learn perfect qcf motions on square gate, just takes not dragging the stick along the gate itself - all an octo does is restrict your ability to do this. They're a crutch for people who haven't learned how to do motions properly imo. :pac: