Drivers who don't give way when merging onto a M-way

Dzien

What an attitude of the op. Imagine if everyone driving the motorway had the same stupid attitude, what a f*cking nightmare. The point is we're supposed to drive safely and smartly and you can only control you're own driving? Who wants to be arguing that they were in the right as they're on their way to hospital after an accident? You're on the motorway, you can see a lot more of whats going on than someone coming down a slip road looking in mirrors, missing blindpots etc etc. Its the smart thing to move over if you can, you don't have to slow, change speed and the other driver can make all the merging mistakes he wants, at least you're out of his way. Playing chicken with someone who may not even be aware of you is ridiculous. You are definitely the bigger boll*x, as you've shown you were completely aware of the driving situation and still chose the "f*ck you mate" course of action.

Dacelonid

Look the fact is, the OP was right not to pull out into the overtaking lane.
It is the responsibility of the driver that was merging with the motorway to do so in a fashion that is safe. Obviously pulling up alongside a car already on the motorway and matching the speed is wrong, and they then compounded that by undertaking the OP.

I used to be of the opinion that if I was trying to merge with the motorway, that any driver should move out and make it easier for me. However it was pointed out to me that that is incorrect, so now I don't expect it and will filter in behind any car already on the motorway, or if safe to do so, in front of. I learned my lesson, the driver in the OP didn't so he will continue to drive like a prat.

Also fair play to the OP for doing the right thing.

Dzien

And thats fine, you know how to drive and can merge properly. But if you can see someone not driving properly do you intend to punish them by driving unsafely?

And as for "Fair play to the op for doing the right thing"?

The day will come when the twat coming down the slip road will just promptly drive in to the side of the op at 100/120km/h and cause an accident?

Is that the point of being "right"

If we all did that someone would be mangled at a roundabout every day.

Seth Brundle

Just to throw a cat amongst the pigeons, if someone who is trying to enter a busy motorway and can't find a merge slot, they must stop at the end of the slip road.




(runs for cover)

Mr. Presentable

Dacelonid wrote: »

Look the fact is, the OP was right not to pull out into the overtaking lane.
It is the responsibility of the driver that was merging with the motorway to do so in a fashion that is safe. Obviously pulling up alongside a car already on the motorway and matching the speed is wrong, and they then compounded that by undertaking the OP.

I used to be of the opinion that if I was trying to merge with the motorway, that any driver should move out and make it easier for me. However it was pointed out to me that that is incorrect, so now I don't expect it and will filter in behind any car already on the motorway, or if safe to do so, in front of. I learned my lesson, the driver in the OP didn't so he will continue to drive like a prat.

Also fair play to the OP for doing the right thing.

So, the OP has right of way and the right to exercise it. He is under no obligation to move over.

However, correct driving procedure requires you behave in a safe and courteous manner to other road users. Always - regardless of whether the other driver does.

It is plainly wrong to brass it out with another motorist - it's not about who is the more Alpha driver, it is about everyone getting home safe.

Thus my argument is that you make road use as simple as possible for other motorists, and if that means taking the inconvenience of moving over (even though you do not have to - and why will you only do it if forced to?), then do it. It is referenced as a correct procedure for use of lane 2 in the RSA ROTR

"Lane 2
On a two-lane motorway, use this for overtaking only and move back into lane 1 when you have finished. You may also use this lane to accommodate traffic merging from the left.
"

Henry Ford III

2qk4u wrote: »

Yeah, if I come down the slip lane and the only other car couldnt be bothered moving over Id pull right out as if it wasnt there.

Your commupence can't come soon enough then. That attitude is so wrong dude.

pug_

The op was in a situation where another driver was driving beside him on a slip lane and clearly wasn't going to give way as per what a lot of people here seem to expect. Regardless of who's right or who's wrong when you're in a situation on a motorway that could be potentially dangerous common sense should prevail, and imo the common sense approach here given that there was no other traffic on the motorway is to move lanes and let the other driver merge.

I really don't agree with the attitude a lot of drivers have of thinking they can try to force people into good driving habits while on the road. It's not other drivers responsibility to be a driving instructor and all it does is demonstrate how dangerous situations can be created by bad drivers which, by it's very definition, means the driver doing the 'teaching' is deliberately creating a dangerous and avoidable situation on the road.

[EDIT] Edited because I misread post I was replying to.

Erebus

Irish people haven't a clue how to drive on motorways take for example the M50 everyone still thinks its a dual carriageway and only use lane 2 and 3 rules of the road link below get reading..

http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/contents.html

Joining the motorway

When entering the motorway, exercise care and attention, and yield to traffic on the motorway. You must follow the steps below when joining a motorway.

• Use the acceleration lane to build up your speed before merging into traffic on the motorway.
• Signal early to other motorists that you intend to merge.
• As you approach on the slip road, check in your mirrors and your blind spot for a safe gap in traffic in the left-hand lane of the motorway.
• Obey road signs and road markings.
• Do not drive on hatch markings before merging into traffic on the motorway.
• Give way to traffic already on the motorway.
• Adjust your speed as you join the motorway so you match, as near as possible, the general speed of traffic in that lane.
• Treat each lane change as a seperate manoeuvre. Stay in the left-hand lane long enough to adjust to the speed of traffic before attempting to overtake.

Seth Brundle

pug_ wrote: »

I couldn't disagree more. So what you're saying is when you're in a situation that someone is driving beside you on a slip lane you will actively maintain the status quo in an effort to force him to change his position because you feel that you're right and he's wrong? And you're further making the assumption that he's both a competent driver and aware of what's going on around him?

That's just plain dangerous imo.

The op was in a situation where another driver was driving beside him on a slip lane and clearly wasn't going to give way as per what a lot of people here seem to expect. Regardless of who's right or who's wrong when you're in a situation on a motorway that could be potentially dangerous common sense should prevail, and imo the common sense approach here given that there was no other traffic on the motorway is to move lanes and let the other driver merge.

I really don't agree with the attitude a lot of drivers have of thinking they can try to force people into good driving habits while on the road. It's not other drivers responsibility to be a driving instructor and all it does is demonstrate how dangerous situations can be created by bad drivers which, by it's very definition, means the driver doing the 'teaching' is deliberately creating a dangerous and avoidable situation on the road.

So in other words, someone should move and in your view it should be the person already on the mainline who has right of way?
As for forcing people to have good habits. I don't think people are doing this, I think its more that they are not 'lowering' themselves to the poor standards held by others.
Yes common sense & courtesy should always prevail. However, the law is also (with regard to driving) somewhat based on common sense. The common sense and courtesy should be adopted by all drivers and not just those in the right.

pug_

kbannon wrote: »

So in other words, someone should move and in your view it should be the person already on the mainline who has right of way?

Absolutely. To not do so is relying on the assumption that the other driver is competent and aware of what's around them which could potentially lead to a crash at the end of the sliproad.

As for forcing people to have good habits. I don't think people are doing this, I think its more that they are not 'lowering' themselves to the poor standards held by others.

By insuring they have no choice but to either speed up or slow down to avoid craching into you? that's forcing someone imo.

Yes common sense & courtesy should always prevail. However, the law is also (with regard to driving) somewhat based on common sense. The common sense and courtesy should be adopted by all drivers and not just those in the right.

I'm not talking about common courtesy I'm talking about safety and common sense.

I'm amazed at how some people on this thread find it such a chore to move onto the overtaking lane for a few hundred metres to allow a car on to the motorway.

Yes it is the mergers job to merge correctly but its much easier for the person on the motorway to survey the situation and move over. As I said before the person merging will almost always be travelling slower so I will have to move over to overtake then anyway so I might as well have moved over in advance. Btw I am not saying people should move over every time they see cars merging but if you quickly read the situation in advance and think you will get close to the merging car then I would always mover over.

I think its good motorway driving to move over rather than bad driving as some poster are saying.

Does anyone actually have a valid reason for not moving over other than "I dont have to so why should I"

kodute

7 pages and no sign of the person who sticks to the "fast" lane so merging doesn't affect them anyway?! Whats happened to the motors forum?! :eek:

Erebus

Patrick Fluffy Lumberjack wrote: »

I'm amazed at how some people on this thread find it such a chore to move onto the overtaking lane for a few hundred metres to allow a car on to the motorway.

Yes it is the mergers job to merge correctly but its much easier for the person on the motorway to survey the situation and move over. As I said before the person merging will almost always be travelling slower so I will have to move over to overtake then anyway so I might as well have moved over in advance. Btw I am not saying people should move over every time they see cars merging but if you quickly read the situation in advance and think you will get close to the merging car then I would always mover over.

I think its good motorway driving to move over rather than bad driving as some poster are saying.

Does anyone actually have a valid reason for not moving over other than "I dont have to so why should I"

You may think its common courtesy but I move into the overtaking lane because I'm scared the driver joining the motorway doesn't have a clue and needs as much space as possible.

It is completely up to the driver on the motorway to remain were he/she is and its the drivers joining the motorway to do so safely and with due care..
"When entering the motorway, exercise care and attention, and yield to traffic on the motorway."
It does not say, while driving on the motorway take care to give idiots joining the motorway as much space as possible.

BrianD3

OK, to those who say I should have moved over, slowed down or acted in a so-called courteous manner. The same could be applied to many other situations encountered in everyday driving. Eg I am driving on a single carriageway main road, I am the only car on it and travelling at appropriate and legal speed. Up ahead there is a car waiting to turn left out of a side road. Should I:

a) maintain my speed and position while recognising that he is a potential hazard
b) preemptively slow down or stop and courteously "wave him on"
c) preemptively move to the other side of the road to make room for him so that he can barge out without impeding me.

I choose option a). The other driver should stay where he is, wait 5 seconds till I've passed so that when he does pull out, he doesn't cause the only other car on the road to alter speed and position.

If the majority of drivers on main roads choose options b) or c)then what happens? IMO a lot of people will get confused about who has priority and about who is supposed to give way.

The ROTR doesn't help either. The word "may" is a wishy washy word in a guidance document on road traffic law. IIRC this word also appears in the section about moving to the hard shoulder to let following vehicles overtake. Drivers interpret that in various ways and in general, the situation with hard shoulder usage is unsatisfactory.

Mr. Presentable

You were talking a very specific situation in the OP. Now you're just muddying the waters.

BrianD3

BrianD3 wrote: »

a) maintain my speed and position while recognising that he is a potential hazard
b) preemptively slow down or stop and courteously "wave him on"
c) preemptively move to the other side of the road to make room for him so that he can barge out without impeding me.

I would choose option a) also in this situation but you cannot compare this to what happened its completely different. (b) and (c) above would cause you inconvenience and could be dangerous for other road users. Moving 3 metres to the right on a motorway before you even got along side the other car would make absolutely no difference to you.

Seth Brundle

I think that driving knowledge in this country is so poor that we are now compelled to drive in such a manner that accommodates those who don't know what they should be doing whether its merging, hogging the overtaking lane,

fog lights

, etc.

It actually should not be this way but between abysmal driver education and poor enforcement (which in recent years has improved) people now accept this as a norm.

BrianD3

Patrick Fluffy Lumberjack wrote: »

I would choose option a) also in this situation but you cannot compare this to what happened its completely different. (b) and (c) above would cause you inconvenience and could be dangerous for other road users. Moving 3 metres to the left on a motorway before you even got along side the other car would make absolutely no difference to you.

The scenario described is actually similar to the original scenario. The main difference is the grade of road. Both cases involve a driver with priority changing speed and/or position to accommodate someone else.

I'll be the judge of how inconvenienced I am by other drivers. Drivers who merge slowly and/or without giving way irk me as much as people pull out of side roads without giving way.

Maybe I should stop on a roundabout too if I see someone who wants to join, after all that would be the "courteous" thing to do?

And did it ever occur to people that the merging driver may *not* want the drivers on the mainline to do anything other than maintain a steady speed and leave sufficient gaps for merging?

When I am merging onto a motorway with one car on it, I don't want the driver on the mainline to slow down, speed up or change position. I am tracking them in my mirrors and am aware of their position. If they change speed it can mess up my timing. Eg I'm aiming to merge behind someone but they slow down, now they've made life harder for me. If both of us adjust our speed at the same time what happens.

If the driver on the mainline moves into the overtaking lane, undertaking or a similar "standoff" as I described in my original post can still happen except the two cars cars are now side by side on the mainline. Now somebody has to speed up or slow down. Who's responsibility is it? The courteous driver in the overtaking lane who feels he has the moral high ground? Or the driver who has just merged and didn't ask for anyone's help to execute his merge?

peasant

BrianD3 wrote: »

And did it ever occur to people that the merging driver may *not* want the drivers on the mainline to do anything other than maintain a steady speed and leave sufficient gaps for merging?

When I am merging onto a motorway with one car on it, I don't want the driver on the mainline to slow down, speed up or change position. I am tracking them in my mirrors and am aware of their position. If they change speed it can mess up my timing. Eg I'm aiming to merge behind someone but they slow down, now they've made life harder for me. If both of us adjust our speed at the same time what happens.

If the driver on the mainline moves into the overtaking lane, undertaking or a similar "standoff" as I described in my original post can still happen except the two cars cars are now side by side on the mainline. Now somebody has to speed up or slow down. Who's responsibility is it? The courteous driver in the overtaking lane who feels he has the moral high ground? Or the driver who has just merged and didn't ask for anyone's help to execute his merge?

Very good points there

It irks me no end when "polite" people mess with my perfectly timed merging maneuvre

peasant

peasant wrote: »

Very good points there

It irks me no end when "polite" people mess with my perfectly timed merging maneuvre

I dont expect people to move over for me merging either as I have no problem merging into traffic but a lot of people do.

Its funny as I dont think the words "polite" and me driving are really suited !!

As I said more often than not I move over as it helps me to keep moving better rather than relying on the merging car to time it right when more often than not they are driving too slow when they merge.