Drivers who don't give way when merging onto a M-way

MagicMarker

dellas1979 wrote: »

Well, seeing as you asked (your words), I think you are the bigger bollock.

Is safety not high on your priorities?

What part of the road do you own? Cause Im pretty sure the other driver has claims too - actually come to think of it about 4 million of us in Ireland do. Sorry. to. burst. your. bubble.

Worst. use. of. full. stop. ever.

2qk4u

Henry Ford III wrote: »

That's precisely wrong.

Please explain.

O.A.P

peasant wrote: »

question:

What do you do when you can't change lanes and/or you can't speed up to the limit ?

I'd back off enough to let him in ,if the only other option was race him for it.

peasant

O.A.P wrote: »

I'd back off enough to let him in ,if the only other option was race him for it.

Backing off is one option ...speeding up (if possible) is another.
Depending on the circumstances you have to choose the appropriate one

Having a race, obviously, isn't an option ever.

O.A.P

peasant wrote: »

Backing off is one option ...speeding up (if possible) is another.
Depending on the circumstances you have to choose the appropriate one

Having a race, obviously, isn't an option ever.

You said I could'nt speed up or change lanes. I got it right so.

2qk4u

MagicMarker wrote: »

I understand what you're saying, but it's doesn't exactly apply to the case at hand, which I find analogous to someone sitting next to me on an empty bus, i.e, pointless.

Oh yeah, and wrong, merging traffic have to adjust their speed according to the flow of traffic on the motorway.

In this case with you being the only other car nearby I would have pulled right out at the end of the slip lane, there is only you and him on the the road and there is a problem that could be avoided by you moving out, therefore you are a bollox.

Seth Brundle

copacetic wrote: »

I've never seen a solid white line at a merge on a motorway, here or in any other country. It wouldn't make a lick of sense.

There are but I don't recall where or even if it was parallel to the off-ramp or parallel to the on-ramp.
I remember posting it up here also and it was acknowledged. Google can't find it though

MagicMarker

2qk4u wrote: »

In this case with you being the only other car nearby I would have pulled right out at the end of the slip lane, there is only you and him on the the road and there is a problem that could be avoided by you moving out, therefore you are a bollox.

I don't know which point of view you're speaking from tbh. You would have waited to pull out at the end of the slip lane?

testarossa40

Peasant, I'm surprised at you

peasant wrote: »

"Common courtesy" is the new political correctness.:rolleyes:

1) It is not difficult to merge onto a motorway when there is only one other car on it doing a constant speed. If you find it difficult, you should consider taking public transport

If you've happened into the vicinity of merging traffic then there's an increased likelihood of intentional or unintentional spatial interference of some degree or other, even ending up side-by-side! (as happened to the OP for some reason)

peasant wrote: »

2) no-one is inconveniencing anyone in the above scenario (once both parties know how to drive properly)

Incorrect imo. The car/driver on the mainline has many more options to deal with the situation with little to no inconvenience to themselves at all than has the car that's trying merge. After all, the merging car has an ever-diminishing length of slip road to consider and if the mainline car won't courteously facilitate the merge by using the space to their right, then it might either have to break & slow down thus joining at a reduced speed and potentially slowing down traffic behind unnecessarily, or increase speed and "undertake" - possibly abruptly. All the mainline driver had to do was anticipate & pull out to the right with infinitesimal impact to their journey.

peasant wrote: »

3) in the above scenario, moving over is neither courteous nor necessary ... it is a superflous gesture of "look at me and how nice I am"

No. It is courteous AND facilitates smooth traffic flow. Simples.

peasant wrote: »

4) how will anyone ever learn to merge correctly if everyone just moves over ?

I'd suggest to you that moving over (when safe & appropriate) is a significant part of how to merge correctly. You've driven on continental m/ways, right?

peasant wrote: »

5) this misplaced courtesy will lead to an expectation that everybody will move over (and that (learning how) to merge properly is not necessary)

Proper merging requires: Getting up to matching speed asap, locate/judge a suitable gap, indicate & pull into it before the merge ends. That the OP experienced a side-by-side stand-off is wierd & unfortunate, BUT, would have been AVOIDED if he'd nipped out to right when he could until he'd passed/completed the merge etc.

peasant wrote: »

6) there are situations where it is indeed courteous (and necessary) to move over ..the above scenario is not one of them

The stand-off that the OP experienced would have been avoided if he had anticipated that a car that was merging from very close by on his left might be driven by a nut and so had pulled out to the right to let him painlessly on. It's a large planet we live on after all.

peasant wrote: »

7) lastly, there are situations when it is not possible/safe to move over ...what do those that have never learned to merge do then?

I'd suggest Merge-in-Turn. Or wave cheerily at them as you pass them while they're sat at a stand-still at the top of an angry beeping queue - steering wheels gripped in abject terror

deadlast

BrianD3 wrote: »

On a few occasions we have discussed the issue of drivers merging onto M-ways without giving way to traffic already on it and "courteous" drivers facilitating them.
SNIP

So who's the bigger bollox, me or him?

No definitive answer here imo. It really depends on all the other road conditions. Fact is, he's a hazard...get yourself into a position(early) that will allow you to deal with him and all other hazards. That may involve moving over or slowing down/speeding up.

Ciaranpm

From The Rules of the Road
Joining the motorway

When entering the motorway, exercise care and attention, and yield to traffic on
the motorway. You must follow the steps below when joining a motorway.
1)
Use the acceleration lane to build up your speed before merging into
traffic on the motorway.
Signal early to other motorists that you intend to merge.
2) As you approach on the slip road, check in your mirrors and your blind
spot for a safe gap in traffic in the left-hand lane of the motorway.
3)Obey road signs and road markings.
4)Do not drive on hatch markings before merging into traffic on the
motorway.
5)Give way to traffic already on the motorway.
6)Adjust your speed as you join the motorway so you match, as near as
possible, the general speed of traffic in that lane.
7)Treat each lane change as a seperate manoeuvre. Stay in the left-hand

lane long enough.
End

The above never happens on M50 esp at Cherrywood heading northbound, its like Fook you didnt you see me indicating???

Indicating is exactly that, an indication of the direction you intend to go not I was indicating right when i drove out in front of you!!! GRRRRRRR

2qk4u

MagicMarker wrote: »

I don't know which point of view you're speaking from tbh. You would have waited to pull out at the end of the slip lane?

Yeah, if I come down the slip lane and the only other car couldnt be bothered moving over Id pull right out as if it wasnt there.

testarossa40

peasant wrote: »

question:

What do you do when you can't change lanes and/or you can't speed up to the limit ?

I judge it accordingly. If I can't change lanes then it's most likely because traffic's jammed & moving slowly anyway, so there'll almost certainly be a queue of cars trying to join (slowly). Nearly always the left-hand lane slows right down approaching on-merges so merge-in-turn tends to happen by default and I'd go with that particular flow. Think M50 n/b currently at Sandyford or Dundrum in the evenings for example.

Having said that, I always aim to be in the right-hand lane well in advance of coming up to these one way or another

deadlast

Ciaranpm wrote: »

From The Rules of the Road
Joining the motorway

That'd be grand if everyone followed it, but you know yourself...

jd

I would never presume that traffic would give way to me when I merge on to a motorway/hqdc, and would try to adjust my speed to merge safely- the onus is on the merger to do so. Having said that, when approaching a junction on a motorway I'll make a judgement on what is the best thing to do in a particular situation. Merging on to an Autostrada, or from a service area on a US Freeway, would be good training for a lot of Irish drivers.

Ciaranpm

Dont get me started on the Bray merge heading Southbound

No one gives a flying **** about anybody that is on the m way already.If i am in the left lane i let peoplemerge until i get under the bridge after that they can go and ****e. if they want to go to Bray off with them.

I am sick of being forced off the road by someone at the last minute.

peasant

testarossa40 wrote: »

Peasant, I'm surprised at you


If you've happened into the vicinity of merging traffic then there's an increased likelihood of intentional or unintentional spatial interference of some degree or other, even ending up side-by-side! (as happened to the OP for some reason)

Yepp ...but it shouldn't happen. Once the merger knows what they are doing.

Incorrect imo. The car/driver on the mainline has many more options to deal with the situation with little to no inconvenience to themselves at all than has the car that's trying merge. After all, the merging car has an ever-diminishing length of slip road to consider and if the mainline car won't courteously facilitate the merge by using the space to their right, then it might either have to break & slow down thus joining at a reduced speed and potentially slowing down traffic behind unnecessarily, or increase speed and "undertake" - possibly abruptly. All the mainline driver had to do was anticipate & pull out to the right with infinitesimal impact to their journey

Remember, not only was there only one car on the motorway but also just only one car on the merging lane (so no stress there either) ...and the motorway has the right of way

I'd suggest to you that moving over (when safe & appropriate) is a significant part of how to merge correctly. You've driven on continental m/ways, right?

Yes, I've driven on continental motorways a lot. In the situation as described here no-one would move lanes, ever.
The time to move over (if you can) is when there is a gaggle of cars coming down the merger lane, for a single car there is no need whatsoever.

Proper merging requires: Getting up to matching speed asap, locate/judge a suitable gap, indicate & pull into it before the merge ends.

Exactly ...and it really isn't difficult (or shouldn't be) ...especially not when there is just one car driving at constant speed in the other lane

The stand-off that the OP experienced would have been avoided if he had anticipated that a car that was merging from very close by on his left might be driven by a nut and so had pulled out to the right to let him painlessly on. It's a large planet we live on after all.

While you are correct in what you're saying, I prefer to drive under the assumption that not every other road user is incompetent and/or a nutcase and actually knows how to drive properly.
I would not move out as a matter of principle, I would however avoid a confrontation, if forced into one. Assuming is one thing, insisting quite another (and not adviseable)

BArra

i generally travel the same routes, thus i know when cars will be merging on set parts of the motorway

is it really that difficult to antisipate the merging traffic and move to the overtaking lane prior to this?

it makes things so much easier

so the rules of the road state that those already on the motorway have the right of way, which is fine, its the rules of the road.... however...

its simply common courtesy and in my opinion good driving just to let cars merge, not act like a dickhead trying to block them in

these people who dont antisipate the merging traffic normally have no awareness to their left or right, just head stuck looking straight ahead, zero spacial awareness

deadlast

peasant wrote: »

The time to move over (if you can) is when there is a gaggle of cars coming down the merger lane, for a single car there is no need whatsoever.

You're on the Mway. You see this car coming down the slip road. You know 100% that he wants to/has to merge into the lane you are in. Why wouldn't you move over?

Seth Brundle

deadlast wrote: »

You're on the Mway. You see this car coming down the slip road. You know 100% that he wants to/has to merge into the lane you are in. Why wouldn't you move over?

The theory is that we have rules and it is up to the person merging to actually merge and not take an existing cars place on the mainline!

peasant

kbannon wrote: »

The theory is that we have rules and it is up to the person merging to actually merge and not take an existing cars place on the mainline!

Nutshell ...this is it

Ciaranpm

I generally do accomodate merging traffic where possible but it has to be on my terms i will back off,move over etc where safe and possible. What I wont tolerate is the guy in the big fat 7 series losing the head at me just coz he couldnt get in front of me then proceeding to act like a complete gorilla behind me you know the type scratching armpits etc etc!

Seth Brundle

Ciaranpm wrote: »

I generally do accomodate merging traffic where possible but it has to be on my terms i will back off,move over etc where safe and possible. What I wont tolerate is the guy in the big fat 7 series losing the head at me just coz he couldnt get in front of me then proceeding to act like a complete gorilla behind me you know the type scratching armpits etc etc!

but that is the problem here in Ireland. People actually believe that they have a right over drivers already on the mainline.

BArra

clearly though in the OP's situation

this thread would not exist if he had the courtesy to change lanes as he saw a car speeding up to merge instead of acting like a tool

it would have made no difference to his journey, a simple right indication and minor steering movement


EDIT:-
the way i feel most drivers on Irish roads act when travelling down a road to merge is to get to the speed limit as quick as possible, without regard for whats already on the motorway, so the way i see it is, if you are indeed travelling on the motorway already, you need to antisipate these drivers and move over, possibly avoiding a certain scenario :P

deadlast

kbannon wrote: »

The theory is that we have rules and it is up to the person merging to actually merge and not take an existing cars place on the mainline!

Theory is right. You're assuming that this driver is following the rules of the road too!! I'm sure someone on here can quote the number of people on provisional licences/foreign/none/those who got them without the test(relation of mine, never drove a car in her life has a full licence)...

copacetic

kbannon wrote: »

The theory is that we have rules and it is up to the person merging to actually merge and not take an existing cars place on the mainline!

So you wouldn't move over, 'because we have rules'? That's a pretty stupid reason. This whole, I'm in the right so I'll just stare ahead and hope for the best attitude is really bad driving.

What about the 'rule' quoted earlier that says you can use the outside lane to make room for people merging? Just ignore that one?

Alun

kbannon wrote: »

but that is the problem here in Ireland. People actually believe that they have a right over drivers already on the mainline.

.. and people on the mainline are then effectively forced to move over to accommodate them in the interest of avoiding a collision, thus reinforcing the deeply held, but incorrect beliefs of the people merging. It's a vicious circle.

It's also not helped by people attempting to merge onto m-ways at ludicrously slow speeds, or the stupidly short merges on the on-ramps of some junctions either.

deadlast

Yep, that's what its there for.

xabi wrote: »

From the rules of the road:

On a two-lane motorway, use this for overtaking only and move back into lane 1 when you have finished. You may also use this lane to accommodate traffic merging from the left.

cantgetright

problem would be solved if people could have some comon decency. If some F**ker wants to muscle in head of you, just let them!

Alun

deadlast wrote: »

Yep, that's what its there for.

Erm, no it's not. It says you MAY use it for that purpose, i.e. if necessary due to volumes of traffic, multiple cars trying to merge, etc.. It also says that traffic merging MUST give way to traffic on the mainline .. are you conveniently ignoring that one?