Sound moderator advice

rmnrgn

Hi fellas,
I'd be grateful if you have the time to read this and offer any advice.
I recieved my licence for my new .243 last week, three months to the date of its initial application (which had to be resubmitted three times), but thats another matter. I had applied for a sound moderator and submitted a letter with the 9 page application form explaining why I wanted one. I didn't think the tick box would provide enough justification.
Anyway, the licence arrived for the rifle and 100 rounds. No permission for the moderator. I'm miffed that I've had to wait so long into the deer season before I could start but have been satisfied with duck and pheasant in the recent weeks. What really annoys me is that despite having two other firearms, no criminal past or inclination and a long history of safe and considerate shooting the local super has decided in his wisdom that I shouldn't have one. Now, he might have good reasons of his own but how do I go about finding out why? Am I entitled to ask or will I get brushed off with a standard letter or even none at all? Is it worth my while or should I just leave it alone and get on with making enough noise to scare away half the livestock of the county?
If anyone else has found themselves in this situation I'd be interested in hearing your story.

kowloon

It wouldn't hurt to ask, it'll cost you another €80 if you decide to reapply for one in six months time otherwise.
The telephone is your friend.

I regret not applying in the first place.

Cass

Ring the Super and instead of asking ask him why the moderator permit is not mentioned on your license ask him do you need to use an FCA2 to amend the license or will he be issuing a seperate permission letter for the mod. Tell him you applied for it on your application and were granted the license and during the application period you were not contacted in any way in relation to the moderator.

Go at it from the view that you are entitled to it as your license was passed with no-one contacting you to question your reasons or telling you its not going to happen.

I applied for a mod for my .308 and was granted the license but no mention of the mod on my license, but also no-one telling me i couldn't have it. At the same time i have a permission letter for the last few years that i get signed each year and this year was no exception. I'm taking no chances.

Moral of the story. Ring and talk, be strong but not aggressive. You get more flies with honey, etc, etc.

bang

got my .308 license but no mention of the moderator , even though I ticked box and gave 5 separate and valid reasons for needing it.I was told the super had imposed a blanket ban and that was it.

got the semi auto shotgun license also. both with the amounts of ammo i requested 200 for rifle and 500 for shotgun.

just waiting on the .22 substitution,


then yesterday i get a call from the sergeant saying he has all the required info for the change of .22 and wants to come out and check out my security arrangements!!!! duh i already have 2 licenses in my pocket

anyway comes out and checks , all ok, as he is leaving he says I see you applied for a moderator, the super seems to have changed his mind , you probably will get it....

I'm not holding my breath but it was the first positive thing to come from him yet.

my mates reckon he's just winding me up..

kay 9

bang wrote: »

got my .308 license but no mention of the moderator , even though I ticked box and gave 5 separate and valid reasons for needing it.I was told the super had imposed a blanket ban and that was it.

got the semi auto shotgun license also. both with the amounts of ammo i requested 200 for rifle and 500 for shotgun.

just waiting on the .22 substitution,


then yesterday i get a call from the sergeant saying he has all the required info for the change of .22 and wants to come out and check out my security arrangements!!!! duh i already have 2 licenses in my pocket

anyway comes out and checks , all ok, as he is leaving he says I see you applied for a moderator, the super seems to have changed his mind , you probably will get it....

I'm not holding my breath but it was the first positive thing to come from him yet.

my mates reckon he's just winding me up..

Yeah, i applied for a moderator on my license also and I was told by a very helpful member of the garda siochana that I need to write to the super personally with valid reasons to have it I was also curious as to how many applications are being applied for, I was surprised to learn that over 1500 applications are in the system in Clifden area alone. I thought to myself thats alotta lotta guns in such a small area, so shootin is most definitely a stronger sport than i thought...:cool:

johngalway

You must not be far from me at all Kay9, two of them applications are mine

booom

i was informed the refusal i got for a moderator was a cut and paste job thats been sent out all over north wexford - if anyone has a different experience, let us know.

JDBLASER

booom wrote: »

i was informed the refusal i got for a moderator was a cut and paste job thats been sent out all over north wexford - if anyone has a different experience, let us know.

Im in the same boat.. I got a call a cpuple pf weeks ago from the FO saying I wouldnt get the licence unless I "unticked" the silencer box.. Was with a lad this evening who got the same phonecall.. The SI in Gorey has imposed her own blanket ban on moderaters... Anybody in this area get permission to have one??

Nemesis

I heard the very same thing regarding Gorey.
A blanket ban on Moderators.

My Super is is in Wicklow so I hope My letter of reasons has some impact.!.

It seems Hollywood has a lot to blame for regarding 'silencers' !.

It Still makes sound for gods sake!..even the .22.

The sound is reduced...even moderated it is not Silent!!

As for the deer rifles!...While down on my Golf course helping out with the Rabbit problem my friend brought his Deer rifle along with his .22.

The noise out of the Deer rifle with sound mod was a hell of a lot louder than I thought it would be!..

deerhunter1

rmnrgn wrote: »

Hi fellas,
I'd be grateful if you have the time to read this and offer any advice.
I recieved my licence for my new .243 last week, three months to the date of its initial application (which had to be resubmitted three times), but thats another matter. I had applied for a sound moderator and submitted a letter with the 9 page application form explaining why I wanted one. I didn't think the tick box would provide enough justification.
Anyway, the licence arrived for the rifle and 100 rounds. No permission for the moderator. I'm miffed that I've had to wait so long into the deer season before I could start but have been satisfied with duck and pheasant in the recent weeks. What really annoys me is that despite having two other firearms, no criminal past or inclination and a long history of safe and considerate shooting the local super has decided in his wisdom that I shouldn't have one. Now, he might have good reasons of his own but how do I go about finding out why? Am I entitled to ask or will I get brushed off with a standard letter or even none at all? Is it worth my while or should I just leave it alone and get on with making enough noise to scare away half the livestock of the county?
If anyone else has found themselves in this situation I'd be interested in hearing your story.

There is no need to add letters to explain why you need a Moderator as I see some people have done. Just tick the box on the application form, dont give them too much information. You are entitled to have in writing from the Super why you were not granted a moderator. I got my licences three weeks ago no sign of permission for mods, i went to the station and the super said that the fact that I ticked the box on my application for a moderator when applying for my licence and since my appication was successful it means my moderator's were also granted, it is on the system. This was the words of the super himself.

clivej

deerhunter1 wrote: »

There is no need to add letters to explain why you need a Moderator as I see some people have done. Just tick the box on the application form, dont give them too much information. You are entitled to have in writing from the Super why you were not granted a moderator. I got my licences three weeks ago no sign of permission for mods, i went to the station and the super said that the fact that I ticked the box on my application for a moderator when applying for my licence and since my appication was successful it means my moderator's were also granted, it is on the system. This was the words of the super himself.

That sounds right when you think about it.
Lets see some more thoughts on this..

bunny shooter

Unfortunately our thoughts might not stand up in court :eek:

I want a letter or something else official from Super to authorise me or I won't have one.

rrpc

Nemesis wrote: »

I heard the very same thing regarding Gorey.
A blanket ban on Moderators.

My Super is is in Wicklow so I hope My letter of reasons has some impact.!.

It seems Hollywood has a lot to blame for regarding 'silencers' !.

Hollywood in Wicklow?

fiestaman

lads it says Accessories (tick appropriate box). says noting about giving reasons why you want it, you just tick it and be done. if it is on the applaction then i dont see how you can be refused, your ticking to say you want it AND you dont tick if you dont want it. NARGC should be getting clarifaction on this once and for all. im applying for one by just ticking box and if im refused il be wanting a good explanation. Il go down fighting...

emcor

bunny shooter wrote: »

Unfortunately our thoughts might not stand up in court :eek:

I want a letter or something else official from Super to authorise me or I won't have one.

Why dont you turn that around and let their logic be the one to stand or not. How many cases have been taken by the state for irregularities in use of licsened guns?

bunny shooter

Because I'll be the one charged with possession of an unlicenced firearm not the muppets who f**ked up :eek:

Sparks

bunny shooter wrote: »

Because I'll be the one charged with possession of an unlicenced firearm not the muppets who f**ked up :eek:

Times are strange when even I think Bunny is the voice of reason... :eek:

bunny shooter

"He dares to be a fool, and that is the first step in the direction of wisdom."

James Gibbons Huneker

OR ..................................

"The most difficult character in comedy is that of the fool, and he must be no simpleton that plays that part."

Miguel de Cervantes

300winmag

yep in the same boat
but as far as im concerned i applied in writing for lisence
and ticked the box, its up to the super to rsfuse me in writing,
if he dosnt im takin it that im covered,
my letter and application are on file
so if it gets trickey ill be refering to that

CJhaughey

Thats all well and good being told to work away, however aside from any issues this side how do you import a mod from elsewhere?
Most UK dealers I have spoken to say you need a cert for the Mod, kind of hard to produce that If you don't have a little bit of writing on the License saying that you have permission for a Mod.
Not many dealers will sell you a mod on the basis that you claim to have ticked a box on the FCA1.

Cass

Can someone clarify this for me. I know a permit letter, box ticked or some other form of authorisation is required for a mod but a couple of firearms dealers have told me and i've always found it to be the case that, there is no requirements, restrictions etc on the dealer to sell moderators it is the sole responsibility of the shooter to declare the mod and have it licensed/authorised. Have the SIs changed in regard to this?

johngalway

CJhaughey wrote: »

Not many dealers will sell you a mod on the basis that you claim to have ticked a box on the FCA1.

Eh?

Since when?

I've seen many moderators sold to people with no permits for them. I've asked dealers advice on the process of getting a permit letter only to be told "don't raise the hare". In other words, don't tell them, give me your money and I'll get her threaded and modded for you.

In fairness, this was before the system change. I don't know whether any onus has been put on dealers to ask for permit letters or other evidence of moderator authorisation.

300winmag

CJhaughey wrote: »

Thats all well and good being told to work away, however aside from any issues this side how do you import a mod from elsewhere?
Most UK dealers I have spoken to say you need a cert for the Mod, kind of hard to produce that If you don't have a little bit of writing on the License saying that you have permission for a Mod.
Not many dealers will sell you a mod on the basis that you claim to have ticked a box on the FCA1.

im working on the assumption that some body already has a mod
if your trying to import one thats a whole different ball game,
does that fall in under the same system as a person trying to import a firearm.

CJhaughey

johngalway wrote: »

Eh?

Since when?

I've seen many moderators sold to people with no permits for them. I've asked dealers advice on the process of getting a permit letter only to be told "don't raise the hare". In other words, don't tell them, give me your money and I'll get her threaded and modded for you.

In fairness, this was before the system change. I don't know whether any onus has been put on dealers to ask for permit letters or other evidence of moderator authorisation.

I was speaking more from a POV of buying and importing one from the UK, not locally.
Although one of my local dealers asked for a cert for my .22 mod.

CJhaughey

300winmag wrote: »

im working on the assumption that some body already has a mod
if your trying to import one thats a whole different ball game,
does that fall in under the same system as a person trying to import a firearm.

Thats the thing, I could walk up to a gunshop in Norway and just buy it over the counter.
No need for any kind of license/legislation over there.
But bringing it back could be a problem if the Customs got narky.

Me: But I ticked the box!
Customs officer: What box? Step in here for a moment....Your cert doesn't say anything about a silencer. Sure if you were licensed for it, it would say.

jimbo 22

I just came off the phone from a long conversation with a lower ranking female member of the guards here in wexford - by god could she talk!
Aperently she is into clays and fancies the odd bit of target shooting :eek:

Anyways i asked here what the score with mods and here is what she said :


'' a large percentage of people who are appling for a mod for the first time will not be issued with permission for mods''

''Any 1 who has existing authorisation will be fine she went on to say''...

She said that less than ''10%'' of new applications for mods will be accepted if your lucky:o

people who are just ticking the mod box on the applicaion without a reason have no hope


She said jokingly you will have to come up with a very good excuse why u want one - she said if you play the 'damage to hearing card' the super will tell you to get ear muffs


Also she said if i were caught with a mod in the house or in the field - 'your goin to court and probably fined'


Other important notes i took - Dont pay the lisesence without getting permmission for the mod in writing from the super
You may have to re apply and pay again ....

Also she explicitatly said that if you dont have a leter from the super granting permission for the mod you have no right to have one
She also agreed its a mess as my application is still in the station (I was one of the first to apply probably within a week of the renewls being issued - what a joke !



And the DRAMA continues.... :rolleyes:

riflehunter77

Right lads ill start off by saying that im still waiting on my granted letters but talking to the fo said it should be sorted soon.

Anyway I got two letters from my super two three weeks grainting me permission for mods for my two rifles. Permission granted for 3 yrs for each mod. From what im hearing the only way you will be covered for a moderator is if you get a letter from the super stateing so.

I ticked the box like a majority of people here and added a short note saying why I needed one. It could be the case that ye might be getting letters from the supers office soon saying that a moderator has been granted.

clivej

The way I was told was the difference is Owning and Posession and this is why you can buy them freely over the counter.

You may own a mod but you need permission to be in posession of the mod.

Same with any gun - you can own it but need a license to be in posession of it. You can own a gun without a license if the gun was in a dealers for instance, as are most people when they buy the gun in the first place and apply for the license.

clivej

I'm happy to go along the lines of:

1 - I ticked the box for a mod on the application form for a firearms license for my 308.
Remember this is an application for a new firearms license, the new system, not just a renewal for an old license issued as before. (even though it was for a new gun to me)

2 - I was granted and recieved my license for my 308.

So unless someone defaced my application form then I have been granted what I applied for with my application which equals 308 PLUS THE MODERATOR.

If it gets to the courtroom....................

So the Jugde says to the Super in court "Did Mr. CliveJ apply for a 308 and Moderator and did you grant him the license".

The Super can only say "YES" to the question.

locum-motion

clivej wrote: »

If it gets to the courtroom....................

So the Jugde says to the Super in court "Did Mr. CliveJ apply for a 308 and Moderator and did you grant him the license".

The Super can only say "YES" to the question.

You can't take the risk that the judge might ask the question.
Make SURE the question is asked by having your brief ask it.

fiestaman

clive im with you on this, the cops cant just go making up rules out of nowhere suiting themselves wheather they give you permission or not in the way that there going about it with letters. the box is ticked and details of gun is supplied and if licence is granted as far as im concerned the mod is included. why cant we get clarifacation on this from nargc.

As for this below, what B*LLSH*S, less than 10% what muppet is making that decision. if you dont have a letter you have no hope,where does it say you need to supply a letter?? God they make my blood boil.

'' a large percentage of people who are appling for a mod for the first time will not be issued with permission for mods''

''Any 1 who has existing authorisation will be fine she went on to say''...

She said that less than ''10%'' of new applications for mods will be accepted if your lucky

people who are just ticking the mod box on the applicaion without a reason have no hope


She said jokingly you will have to come up with a very good excuse why u want one - she said if you play the 'damage to hearing card' the super will tell you to get ear muffs


Also she said if i were caught with a mod in the house or in the field - 'your goin to court and probably fined'

Also she explicitatly said that if you dont have a leter from the super granting permission for the mod you have no right to have one
She also agreed its a mess as my application is still in the station (I was one of the first to apply probably within a week of the renewls being issued - what a joke !

deerhunter1

ezridax wrote: »

Can someone clarify this for me. I know a permit letter, box ticked or some other form of authorisation is required for a mod but a couple of firearms dealers have told me and i've always found it to be the case that, there is no requirements, restrictions etc on the dealer to sell moderators it is the sole responsibility of the shooter to declare the mod and have it licensed/authorised. Have the SIs changed in regard to this?

That is correct there is no legal problem dealers selling them it is up to you to notify FO the item itself is not an issue

deerhunter1

clivej wrote: »

I'm happy to go along the lines of:

1 - I ticked the box for a mod on the application form for a firearms license for my 308.
Remember this is an application for a new firearms license, the new system, not just a renewal for an old license issued as before. (even though it was for a new gun to me)

2 - I was granted and recieved my license for my 308.

So unless someone defaced my application form then I have been granted what I applied for with my application which equals 308 PLUS THE MODERATOR.

If it gets to the courtroom....................

So the Jugde says to the Super in court "Did Mr. CliveJ apply for a 308 and Moderator and did you grant him the license".

The Super can only say "YES" to the question.

correct I am the same people are giving tooooo much info to th GS just do what it says on the form do not elaborate they are confused enough

deerhunter1

fiestaman wrote: »

clive im with you on this, the cops cant just go making up rules out of nowhere suiting themselves wheather they give you permission or not in the way that there going about it with letters. the box is ticked and details of gun is supplied and if licence is granted as far as im concerned the mod is included. why cant we get clarifacation on this from nargc.

As for this below, what B*LLSH*S, less than 10% what muppet is making that decision. if you dont have a letter you have no hope,where does it say you need to supply a letter?? God they make my blood boil.

'' a large percentage of people who are appling for a mod for the first time will not be issued with permission for mods''

''Any 1 who has existing authorisation will be fine she went on to say''...

She said that less than ''10%'' of new applications for mods will be accepted if your lucky

people who are just ticking the mod box on the applicaion without a reason have no hope


She said jokingly you will have to come up with a very good excuse why u want one - she said if you play the 'damage to hearing card' the super will tell you to get ear muffs


Also she said if i were caught with a mod in the house or in the field - 'your goin to court and probably fined'

Also she explicitatly said that if you dont have a leter from the super granting permission for the mod you have no right to have one
She also agreed its a mess as my application is still in the station (I was one of the first to apply probably within a week of the renewls being issued - what a joke !



Sounds like to me she is like most of the GS just guessing or assuming

newby.204

bunny shooter wrote: »

Unfortunately our thoughts might not stand up in court :eek:

I want a letter or something else official from Super to authorise me or I won't have one.

how about photocopying the page on the licence where you ticked you want a mod, then when the licence comes through you simply hang on to that and jobs oxo!!!!

rmnrgn

Hi guys,
As I started the thread I thought I might let you all know what transpired.
I took the advice of the first commentators and rang the supers office. I enquired about the moderator and the lady said that she could have a recording made of her response due to the volume of calls on the matter. Frankly she hadn't a clue and admitted as much to me. She was led to believe that if I had an "S" on the upper right corner of the licence, it signified that I was entitled for a sight/silencer/sound mod. Personally I think the "S" means "Security" as its on the hologram!! I asked her would the Super be issuing seperate letters and she said no, due to the volume of applications in the office.
I then rang a gunsmith and sought his advice. He knew even less than I did. He asked if I had ticked the box, I said yes, he said that I should presume that since the licence was successful and I had heard nothing in the intervening 3 months that I should assume that I had authority to possess a moderator. I bought one off him 2 days ago!
Personally to avoid doubt I'll carry it in my pocket when I'm near a road etc but it'll take great detective work to find me using it in the back end of nowhere!
Safe shooting!

johngalway

rmnrgn wrote: »

She was led to believe that if I had an "S" on the upper right corner of the licence, it signified that I was entitled for a sight/silencer/sound mod. Personally I think the "S" means "Security" as its on the hologram!!

Ignoring the hologram, have you got an S on your license?

I have no S on either rifle license, apart from the hologram, but my shotgun license hologram also has S's, go figure.

Gerri

Why not just look at what the Firearms Act says in relation to authorisations for silencers (moderators)? It's very clear and has not been changed in the new CJA. Application to Superintendent,must have good reason,not a danger to public safety etc. Could not be any clearer. If you haven't applied to the Superintendent he cannot issue an authorisation,simple. Ticking a box is not an application. If I recall from the FCA 1,it is seeking details of your firearm in that section,INCLUDING any accessories i.e. silencer,sights etc. In other words,do you HAVE a silencer,not do you WANT a silencer.

rmnrgn

No "S" anywhere else on the licence. Mind you, given the hype about this new licence and card system, the lack of an "S" is the least of all problems. Do you think it would be beyond their ability to put the applicants picture on the licence? I could give my flimsey piece of card to someone else to buy ammo and it would never be checked. Why is the photo that was supplied with the application form sitting in a filing cabinet somewhere? God knows the Gardai advocate photo ID's to combat underage drinking so why not on the licence of a firearm?

rmnrgn

Gerri wrote: »

Why not just look at what the Firearms Act says in relation to authorisations for silencers (moderators)? It's very clear and has not been changed in the new CJA. Application to Superintendent,must have good reason,not a danger to public safety etc. Could not be any clearer. If you haven't applied to the Superintendent he cannot issue an authorisation,simple. Ticking a box is not an application. If I recall from the FCA 1,it is seeking details of your firearm in that section,INCLUDING any accessories i.e. silencer,sights etc. In other words,do you HAVE a silencer,not do you WANT a silencer.

Gerri, the 9 page application form only has a tick box for the sound moderator. There is not other place to request one. I checked this with the supers office. I also included a letter with the application with several reasons why I needed a mod with this particular firearm. I work on the presumption that as I have "ticked" all the boxes and supplemented my already onerous application form, I should have the benefit of positive regard and not one where the super views all reasonable requests with suspicion.

locum-motion

Every time I click onto this forum I see the heading 'Sound Moderator Advice'.

Now, I'm not a rifle guy, so I didn't know that a Sound Moderator is the correct name for what Hollywood calls a silencer.

I thought that the OP was looking for advice about a decent fella who polices the forum. "Sure if the Moderator's so Sound, why does this guy need Advice in dealing with him?" I though to myself.

Am I the only one?

johngalway

jimbo 22 wrote: »

She said jokingly you will have to come up with a very good excuse why u want one - she said if you play the 'damage to hearing card' the super will tell you to get ear muffs

Accepted she said it jokingly.

(Here it comes)

But, through ignorance/indestructible youth/foolishness/whatever, live with hearing problems, whether they be problems hearing any sound, problems deciphering the spoken word with any slight background noise, learning to live with tinnitus and questions may arise about their commitment to everyones well being.

A lot is made about public safety. The public is a lot safer from anyone using a moderated firearm than an individual who's hearing is basically shut off from the outside world. Removing one of the senses does not help public safety, nor does it help the firearm user when better options are available.

It continues to stick in my throat WHY people are issued firearms certificates and then such a deal is made over moderators by some Gardai.

Now, I'm off out to shoot my unmoderated .223

Gerri

rmnrgn wrote: »

Gerri, the 9 page application form only has a tick box for the sound moderator. There is not other place to request one. I checked this with the supers office. I also included a letter with the application with several reasons why I needed a mod with this particular firearm. I work on the presumption that as I have "ticked" all the boxes and supplemented my already onerous application form, I should have the benefit of positive regard and not one where the super views all reasonable requests with suspicion.

The nine page application form only has a tick box for you to tick if you CURRENTLY HAVE a silencer (moderator) for your firearm. It is not intended as a tick box for you to APPLY for a silencer (moderator). This is crystal clear if you read the application form FCA1. Please also read the Firearms Act in relation to applying for a silencer (moderator). I think you are taking the tick box on the form totally out of context. It is essential to read the Firearms Act and then read the FCA1 form. I think you will then have the context correct and will see that it is necessary to apply to the Superintendent for an authorisation for a silencer (moderator).

rmnrgn

Gerri wrote: »

The nine page application form only has a tick box for you to tick if you CURRENTLY HAVE a silencer (moderator) for your firearm. It is not intended as a tick box for you to APPLY for a silencer (moderator). This is crystal clear if you read the application form FCA1. Please also read the Firearms Act in relation to applying for a silencer (moderator). I think you are taking the tick box on the form totally out of context. It is essential to read the Firearms Act and then read the FCA1 form. I think you will then have the context correct and will see that it is necessary to apply to the Superintendent for an authorisation for a silencer (moderator).

Gerri, please excuse me for not having the same analytical mindset as you or the ability to see clarity where none exists.
Section 1 of FCA1 asks the applicant to tick whether this application is for an existing firearm or a new one. By ticking that this is a new application I think it would be fair to say that if you don't have possession of the firearm, you wouldn't have possession of a moderator for it either? Therefore by ticking the box in section 3.2 you are applying for a moderator for the new firearm that you are seeking a licence for.......yes?
As for applying to the superintendent for authorisation, sure! why not! but where does it say in the guidelines how to go about making this application? The only mention of a silencer is section 3.2 so I took the initiative to attach a separate letter with my application but it was not acknowledged.
Maybe my logic centre is switched off but if you can clarify it for me any further I'll be interested enough to listen. I'm sure you'll also enlighten the other contributors to this thread who filled in their application forms and ticked boxes out of context.

Gerri

rmnrgn wrote: »

Gerri, please excuse me for not having the same analytical mindset as you or the ability to see clarity where none exists.
Section 1 of FCA1 asks the applicant to tick whether this application is for an existing firearm or a new one. By ticking that this is a new application I think it would be fair to say that if you don't have possession of the firearm, you wouldn't have possession of a moderator for it either? Therefore by ticking the box in section 3.2 you are applying for a moderator for the new firearm that you are seeking a licence for.......yes?
As for applying to the superintendent for authorisation, sure! why not! but where does it say in the guidelines how to go about making this application? The only mention of a silencer is section 3.2 so I took the initiative to attach a separate letter with my application but it was not acknowledged.
Maybe my logic centre is switched off but if you can clarify it for me any further I'll be interested enough to listen. I'm sure you'll also enlighten the other contributors to this thread who filled in their application forms and ticked boxes out of context.

Therefore,applying your logic,if I tick the sights/other box in section 3.2,I am APPLYING for a sight/other. 1990 Firearms Act relating to silencers (moderators).Possession, sale, etc., of silencers.

7.—(1) A person shall be guilty of an offence if he has in his possession or sells or transfers to another person a silencer unless the possession, sale or transfer is authorised in writing by the superintendent of the district in which the first-mentioned person resides.
[GA]

(2) A superintendent shall not grant an authorisation under this section unless he is satisfied that the person who is to have possession of the silencer or to whom it is to be sold or transferred is the holder of a firearm certificate for a firearm to which the silencer can be fitted and that—
[GA]

( a ) having regard to all the circumstances, the possession, sale or transfer concerned will not endanger the public safety or the peace, and
[GA]

( b ) the person has a special need that is, in the opinion of the superintendent, sufficient to justify the granting of the authorisation for the silencer.
[GA]

(3) The superintendent of the district where the holder of an authorisation under this section resides may, at any time, attach to the authorisation such conditions as he considers necessary for the purpose of preventing danger to the public or to the peace or of ensuring that the silencer is used only to satisfy the special need for which the authorisation was granted.
[GA]

(4) An authorisation under this section may be granted for such period not exceeding one year as is specified in the authorisation and may be revoked by the superintendent of the district where its holder resides.
[GA]

(5) A person who contravenes a condition attached to an authorisation under this section shall be guilty of an offence.
[GA]

(6) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable—
[GA]

( a ) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding £1,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one year or to both, or
[GA]

( b ) on conviction on indictment, to a fine or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or to both.
[GA]

(7) This section does not apply in relation to a person specified in paragraph (b), (c) or (d) of subsection (3) of section 2 of the Firearms Act, 1925 , or paragraph (a) or (b) of subsection (4) (inserted by the Firearms Act, 1964 ) of that section.
[GA]

(8) In this section—
[GA]

"silencer" means a silencer specified in section 4 (1) (g);
[GA]

"superintendent means a superintendent of the Garda Síochána.

Section 3.1 and 3.2
3.1 - Firearm Details (M) Complete 3.1, as follows: Record details of the new firearm, if; (A) you are applying for a new certificate for a new firearm, or, (B) you are substituting a newer firearm for a current one on a like for like basis. Record details of your existing firearm if you are merely renewing the certificate for it.
Serial No (M)
Make (M)
Model
Calibre (M)
Type:(M) Air Gun Crossbow Revolver Rifle Pistol Shotgun
Other (specify)
Sub-Type (c) Tick √ appropriate box(es)
Air Pistol Air Rifle Bolt Action Breech Loading Crossbow Double Barrel Lever Action
Paint Ball Gun Pump Action Repeater Semi Auto Shotgun & Rifle Combined Single Barrel
Single Shot Other (specify)
3.2 - Accessories Tick √ appropriate box(es) if relevant: Silencer Sights / Other (specify)

Is this any help?

rmnrgn

Gerri,
You have obviously put a lot of time and effort into your reply so thank you, but the question still remains unanswered, where does it show how to go about making an application for a silencer? I have no problem with making such an application but the only place on any form where a silencer is mentioned is Section 3.2
I also have a question about whether the Act needs to be updated as Section 7.4 stipulates that an authorisation for a silencer needs to be renewed annually despite the introduction of the new three year licence.
As for the application form, I've highlighted the relevant sections to show that it is feasable to interpret the form as a valid method to apply for a silencer as I've argued in a previous post.

Section 3.1 and 3.2
3.1 - Firearm Details (M) Complete 3.1, as follows: Record details of the new firearm, if; (A) you are applying for a new certificate for a new firearm, or, (B) you are substituting a newer firearm for a current one on a like for like basis. Record details of your existing firearm if you are merely renewing the certificate for it.
Serial No (M)
Make (M)
Model
Calibre (M)
Type(M) Air Gun Crossbow Revolver Rifle Pistol Shotgun
Other (specify)
Sub-Type (c) Tick √ appropriate box(es)
Air Pistol Air Rifle Bolt Action Breech Loading Crossbow Double Barrel Lever Action
Paint Ball Gun Pump Action Repeater Semi Auto Shotgun & Rifle Combined Single Barrel
Single Shot Other (specify)
3.2 - Accessories Tick √ appropriate box(es) if relevant: Silencer Sights / Other (specify)

If this is a new application for a firearm, it can be assumed that by ticking the box in3.2 that you are also seeking a silencer for that firearm.

Dvs

As Gerri has pointed out you must apply for an authorisation for a moderator,
Not a firearms licence, there is no form for an authorisation so it must be made to the Superintendent in your district on an individual basis without a form.

If there was an official form to complete this would make it much more simple for sports shooters to apply for a moderator.

Our system for firearms licensing is not designed to make it simple to apply for either a firearms licence or an authorisation, meeting the criteria laid down in legislation is not sufficient, we must also solve the puzzles to which the people implementing the system do not know the answers, by solving one of these puzzles we might get a special reward like an authorisation for a moderator, we must jump through hoops not knowing if we will meet the unknown bar, or if the parameters by which we are being accessed are being changed during the assessment process.

The system is not based on the premise that when a law abiding person, that is not disentitled under the firearms act, presents themselves at their local Garda station,
To enquire about how they go about licensing a firearm for sporting purposes,
That the Garda as the body charged with implementing the firearms act, and the individual Garda officer at the public desk bound by the Garda charter does their utmost to facilitate them.

It is based on the premise that when a law abiding person, that is not disentitled under the firearms act, presents themselves at their local Garda station,
To enquire about how they go about licensing a firearm for sporting purposes,
That they be viewed with suspicion, why would anyone want a gun ? they are asked, you know these things are shocking dangerous, you would be a target for criminals if you had one in the house you know, there are none of these type licensed in this district, the Supers dead against firearms, you’ll have to meet the Super if you want one of these, you can put in an application but you have no hope.

And in the case of existing firearms licence holders,
Sure you have enough guns already, sure can’t you use that .22 rifle that you have to shoot clay pigeons or deer.

Dvs.

Cass

After reading through the FCA1 and reading the explanation from Gerri i have to say it makes more sense than ticking the box as an application for a mod. Look at it this way.

Previous to the new FCA1 you had to have an authorisation from your Super (in letter form) for a moderator. The FCA1 in section 3.1 states that the details of the firearm (whether its a new application, renewal or substitution) must be entered in this section. That includes any accessories, sights (which we have found to be anything other than a scope) and a "silencer". The idea being details of equipement you are in posession of.

If you have a firearm and a moderator then you are renewing and you tick the box to indicate you have and its assumed that as you are declaring you have a mod that you hve authorisation from the Super to possess and use one. I can see where the confusion lies. Taken out of context (i have done this myself) you could interpet the box tick as a means to apply but after reading back through the FCA1 carefully it does not say by ticking the box that it is an application for a mod.

I think thats the gist of what Gerri was saying??

clivej

Gerri wrote: »

Therefore,applying your logic,if I tick the sights/other box in section 3.2,I am APPLYING for a sight/other. 1990 Firearms Act relating to silencers (moderators).Possession, sale, etc., of silencers.

7.—(1) A person shall be guilty of an offence if he has in his possession or sells or transfers to another person a silencer unless the possession, sale or transfer is authorised in writing by the superintendent of the district in which the first-mentioned person resides.
[GA]

This implies the every gun dealer in the country IS BREAKING THE LAW.

Gerri wrote: »

(2) A superintendent shall not grant an authorisation under this section unless he is satisfied that the person who is to have possession of the silencer or to whom it is to be sold or transferred is the holder of a firearm certificate for a firearm to which the silencer can be fitted and that—
[GA]

( a ) having regard to all the circumstances, the possession, sale or transfer concerned will not endanger the public safety or the peace, and
[GA]

( b ) the person has a special need that is, in the opinion of the superintendent, sufficient to justify the granting of the authorisation for the silencer.
[GA]

The Super signed off on the application form where it states, the tick box, that I am also applying for/have/going to use a moderator for the gun that this application refers to. So the Super must therefore be satisfied that the above conditions have been meet.

Gerri wrote: »

(3) The superintendent of the district where the holder of an authorisation under this section resides may, at any time, attach to the authorisation such conditions as he considers necessary for the purpose of preventing danger to the public or to the peace or of ensuring that the silencer is used only to satisfy the special need for which the authorisation was granted.
[GA]

(4) An authorisation under this section may be granted for such period not exceeding one year as is specified in the authorisation and may be revoked by the superintendent of the district where its holder resides.
[GA]

RifleHunter77 has already stated that he has got permission for 3 year for his moderator.

Now having said all this and while I was typing out this post reply I got a phone call from my FO to say that my Euro Passport and MODERATOR premission letter is waiting for me to collect from the station.

SO no mater what you may read here always do it right.

Cass

clivej wrote: »

This implies the every gun dealer in the country IS BREAKING THE LAW.

Its down to the wording. " A person". It makes no reference to a registered firearms dealer. I think if it were to cover everyone they would make the distinction.

The Super signed off on the application form where it states, the tick box, that I am also applying for/have/going to use a moderator for the gun that this application refers to. So the Super must therefore be satisfied that the above conditions have been meet.

I reckon some Supers are goint to be as confused about this as us. If they check back and see you already have an authorisation for the moderator then the tick box is your way of renewing the authorisation. If you tick the box and have not had an authorisation for a moderator before and do not supply additional info as to why you want it then you may get a refusal.




PS - Well done clivej

clivej

ezridax wrote: »

Its down to the wording. " A person". It makes no reference to a registered firearms dealer. I think if it were to cover everyone they would make the distinction.




I reckon some Supers are goint to be as confused about this as us. If they check back and see you already have an authorisation for the moderator then the tick box is your way of renewing the authorisation. If you tick the box and have not had an authorisation for a moderator before and do not supply additional info as to why you want it then you may get a refusal.


PS - Well done clivej

Back now with 3 year moderator permission for all my guns.
And a 3 year Euro pass for my 308.

A BIG thank you to the KK FO, Supers secretary, and of course the Super himself.