Luas docklands line to open 2nd week of December

Victor

Maldini2706 wrote: »

We have such a backwards attitude to public transport in this country, it's treated almost like a service for people who don't have cars rather than a replacement. When you go to cities like London or Barcelona you can see how a great public transport system can greatly increase the quality of life.

You mean the way they built two separate, unconnected tram systems in Barcelona?

dowlingm

Nostradamus wrote: »

I think it would be a great idea have a Luas line run from the city centre through Coolook and then onto to Howth including running it along the old Hill of Howth tramway loop.

If it replaced Howth DART (and a few Howth J-Connolly intermediate DART stations), it would significantly simplify Northern Line operations, wouldn't it?

BrianD

Well the trams made it down again to The O2. Didn't seem to be that much activity.

I notice that the ticket machines have been installed at the stops.

markpb

They've been working on the junction around Connolly and Amiens St every evening and night for the last week so I guess we'll see the end of the work soon. I'm not sure what work is required in the middle of the road no-where near the luas tracks...

paulm17781

markpb wrote: »

They've been working on the junction around Connolly and Amiens St every evening and night for the last week so I guess we'll see the end of the work soon. I'm not sure what work is required in the middle of the road no-where near the luas tracks...

End of year spending....

D'Peoples Voice

Rockshamrover wrote: »

This section of Luas has to be the most expensive public transport system ever built, anywhere.

Interesting attitude, you think we should quantify the cost of something based on the initial outlay rather than the discounted expected payoff, if there is any! You must work for the government with an attitude like that.

In my opinion, if you spend X, but get back X+Y, where Y is a positive figure, then its cheaper than spending Z but only getting back Z.

gar32

I am going to see Depeche Mode next month 10th Dec will I be getting Luas to the O2?

rednik

You should be, all going well the start date is Dec 8th. You never know Dave Gahan could be beside you on the tram.:D

G_R

rednik wrote: »

You should be, all going well the start date is Dec 8th. You never know Dave Gahan could be beside you on the tram.:D

Bollix, im heading up to Paramore on the 5th and had planned on getting the LUAS from the Red Cow. Now i've to get a bus:mad:

BrianD

dannym08 wrote: »

Bollix, im heading up to Paramore on the 5th and had planned on getting the LUAS from the Red Cow. Now i've to get a bus:mad:

Take the luas anyway! Got off in Connolly and follow the tracks. 10-15min walk max and you're at the front door of the O2!

Most shows finish at 10:30-10:45 so you'll have loads of time to walk back to Connolly.

It will be interesting how they will handle crowds getting onto trams after the concerts. It will be chaotic with 10-14000 spilling out. Not all will use the Luas but I'd imagine a lot will - even if only to CC.

Aard

Maybe they'll have Japanese-style crushers! :pac:

df1985

ive got the prodigy on the 18th and paul mccartney on the 20th.no more long trek down the quays, delighted!

bg07

The timetable and fares have been released on the RPA website. Apparently they still haven't selected the exact opening day yet.

http://www.rpa.ie/Documents/Luas%20Line%20C1/C1%20Documents/Luas%20After%20Luas%20Docklands%20Zone%20Opening_V2_CM_111109.pdf

Nostradamus

gar32 wrote: »

I am going to see Depeche Mode next month 10th Dec will I be getting Luas to the O2?

"Your own, Personal Transport..."

Nostradamus

BrianD wrote: »

It will be interesting how they will handle crowds getting onto trams after the concerts. It will be chaotic with 10-14000 spilling out. Not all will use the Luas but I'd imagine a lot will - even if only to CC.

Well you see the thing is that unlike Dublin Bus, the Luas understands the concept of opening more than one door.

1huge1

bg07 wrote: »

The timetable and fares have been released on the RPA website. Apparently they still haven't selected the exact opening day yet.

http://www.rpa.ie/Documents/Luas%20Line%20C1/C1%20Documents/Luas%20After%20Luas%20Docklands%20Zone%20Opening_V2_CM_111109.pdf

Why is the stop called ''the point''

shouldnt it be the O2?

G_R

1huge1 wrote: »

Why is the stop called ''the point''

shouldnt it be the O2?

Because the Music venue is the o2, the area around it is the Point Village afaik

1huge1

Ah I see i'm not from Dublin, didn't know that

thanks

Victor

dannym08 wrote: »

Because the Music venue is the o2, the area around it is the Point Village afaik

The Point Village is a specific retail development. The area is historicly known as The Point.

BrianD

Nostradamus wrote: »

Well you see the thing is that unlike Dublin Bus, the Luas understands the concept of opening more than one door.

Makes no odds. Even if you have 3 trams waiting its only 1,000 people. You going to have 12 times that leaving the venue at the same time. I would be interested to see how they will manage this crowd- especially given the pretty appalling behaviour of Irish concert goers who tend to wait for nothing. You can just imagine the shenanigans in the queue.

rednik

If you have ever seen the system used at Connolly on GAA finals day where a lot more than 14000 attend you will know that as one tram is filled another is ready and so on until the crowd is dispersed. Crowd control will initially be a problem but once the system is up and running it should go well. Of course you will get the usual gobsh**es but they will be looked after and put to the back of the line.

Victor

BrianD wrote: »

Makes no odds. Even if you have 3 trams waiting its only 1,000 people. You going to have 12 times that leaving the venue at the same time. I would be interested to see how they will manage this crowd- especially given the pretty appalling behaviour of Irish concert goers who tend to wait for nothing. You can just imagine the shenanigans in the queue.

There are 3 platforms at The Point and I think a total of 5 trams can be "stacked" there, plus a series of trams waiting to arrive. Given that people don't leave an event instantaneously (nobody on platform, followed five seconds late by 14,000 on platform), they will be able to move a lot of people. There will of course be people using buses and coaches.

BrianD

Victor wrote: »

There are 3 platforms at The Point and I think a total of 5 trams can be "stacked" there, plus a series of trams waiting to arrive. Given that people don't leave an event instantaneously (nobody on platform, followed five seconds late by 14,000 on platform), they will be able to move a lot of people. There will of course be people using buses and coaches.

Well the problem is that they do actually leave "instantaneously" and as the tram stop is beside the venue door so there isn't much of a dispersal area. On sold out nights, North Wall Quay is closed to traffic to allow all the people to walk towardss town. I work beside the O2 and I myself was taken aback by the volume of people (bit of a late night of the office). There's going to be a real jam of people around that stop. Another issue maybe that many people will probably use the tram route to walk towards Connolly. So tram movements may be restricted as well.


Don't be get me wrong, I think that it's great that the O2 is served by tram. I just wonder how practical the tram will be after the gigs.

mikemac

If as Victor says if they can stack five trams there it'll go a long way to solving it.

As an another example I was in Wembly last month and barricades were set up and you queued to get into one of train stations. The queues were extremely long!
Lots of security around watching everything. Worked flawlessly and within 20 minutes the massive queue was gone.
They had signs too, "at this point you are 5/10/15 minutes away" or words to that effect

Ok, that's trains and we have trams for this issue. But something can be sorted with a bit of planning

dan_d

If they can stack trams and they have a number of platforms, it'll work.
Somebody has thought about it.It'll work itself out over time.There will be queues but in no time people will be used to the system.

BrianD

mikemac wrote: »

If as Victor says if they can stack five trams there it'll go a long way to solving it.

As an another example I was in Wembly last month and barricades were set up and you queued to get into one of train stations. The queues were extremely long!
Lots of security around watching everything. Worked flawlessly and within 20 minutes the massive queue was gone.
They had signs too, "at this point you are 5/10/15 minutes away" or words to that effect

Ok, that's trains and we have trams for this issue. But something can be sorted with a bit of planning

Yes but that's in London and they are boarding larger vehicles. I've seen how concert goers behave in London as opposed to the general misbehaviour of Irish fans.

My concern would be that the physical space arout the O2 is small and about to get smaller when this new venue made out of sea containers in put in. plus putting that amout of people onto 2 x 40m platforms will be a a squash. It will be messy for queuing. Plus 5 trams is a lot of the fleet to have sitting waiting at the O2.

Metrobest

mikemac wrote: »

If as Victor says if they can stack five trams there it'll go a long way to solving it.

As an another example I was in Wembly last month and barricades were set up and you queued to get into one of train stations. The queues were extremely long!
Lots of security around watching everything. Worked flawlessly and within 20 minutes the massive queue was gone.
They had signs too, "at this point you are 5/10/15 minutes away" or words to that effect

Ok, that's trains and we have trams for this issue. But something can be sorted with a bit of planning

This sort of thing happens at Wimbledon every year - 14,000 exit Centre Court en masse after one of the late evening matches. Police line the pedestrian crossing before the tube station and control the flow of crowds into the station. As soon as one tube fills up, another arrives. It's a seamless process but it remains to be seen whether the Gardai have the same co-ordination skills.

BrianD

Metrobest wrote: »

This sort of thing happens at Wimbledon every year - 14,000 exit Centre Court en masse after one of the late evening matches. Police line the pedestrian crossing before the tube station and control the flow of crowds into the station. As soon as one tube fills up, another arrives. It's a seamless process but it remains to be seen whether the Gardai have the same co-ordination skills.

Unlikely, the best they do is park a van across North Wall Quay at New Wapping st. Traffic management in the area by the powers that be is very poor and sloppy. There are a stack of unlicenced car parks as well. I wouldn't be surprised if you'll get a few out of towners parking on the track itself!!

antoinolachtnai

I think that will work pretty well. Gigs end relatively late in the evening, so there are plenty of trams available. Lining up five (or more) trams really shouldn't be a big problem. Two-fifths of the trams would only need to run as far as Abbey St and Heuston, so the trams could do a second run.

I believe there are going to be 40 trams on the line in total, so it is quite feasible that if you really needed to, you could queue trams up in the docklands, and run a tram from the Point every two minutes. The main issue would be road space further up in the city centre. You could potentially move six or seven thousand people out of there in an hour on the Luas if you really geared up for it.

This is the thing about rail. The capacity and speed, with a segregated line, is just phenomenal. (However, the cost is very high to build and maintain it).

You do have to manage the crowd, but that's very feasible. The hardest part is going to be issuing thousands of tickets in a short period of time.

I do remember being at a concert at the royal hospital kilmainham. I'd say the crowd was around 10,000. In practice, the luas had no problem dealing with the volumes of people. (There were extra trains laid on, it seemed, to coincide with the end of the concert.)

BrianD

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

I think that will work pretty well. Gigs end relatively late in the evening, so there are plenty of trams available. Lining up five (or more) trams really shouldn't be a big problem. Two of the trams would only need to run as far as Abbey St and Heuston, so the trams could do a second run.

My understanding that the line is not designed for short running between Connolly or Heuston. It's there in theory but the power isn't. Sounds odd but so I was told by a LUAS person.

I believe there are going to be 40 trams on the line in total, so it is quite feasible that if you really needed to, you could queue trams up in the docklands, and run a tram from the point every two minutes. The main issue would be road space further up in teh city centre. You could potentially move six or seven thousand people out of there in an hour on the Luas if you really geared up for it.

It still means that you have 12.5% of your fleet tied up at The O2 sitting waiting for passengers and therefore out of service. if loaded immediately you move 1500 people. Then you need to have another 5 trams ready to roll in. You could have them backed up along the line but that's now 10 trams out of use.

This is the thing about rail. The capacity and speed, with a segregated line, is just phenomenal. (However, the cost is very high to build and maintain it).

You do have to manage the crowd, but that's very feasible. The hardest part is going to be issuing thousands of tickets in a short period of time.

But who pays for this? The O2, concert promoter or LUAS. Perhaps they can insist on prepay tickets. In otherwords, you have to have your return ticket bought.

I do remember being at a concert at the royal hospital kilmainham. I'd say the crowd was around 10,000. In practice, the luas had no problem dealing with the volumes of people. (There were extra trains laid on, it seemed, to coincide with the end of the concert.)

I believe the capacity may have been less but the big advantage is that there is a distance between the RHK and the nearest stops. This means there is space - a much longer queue if you like. This allows the crowd to naturally trickle down to the nearest stop. You don't have that luxury at The O2. The stop is outside the door. Not to mention that at the RHK you have buses and a rail station nearby. You've the 151 route and that's about it at the O2.