Luas docklands line to open 2nd week of December

Zebra3

Rockshamrover wrote: »

This section of Luas has to be the most expensive public transport system ever built, anywhere.

I doubt it, considering it's all over ground.

loyatemu

Rockshamrover wrote: »

What's the distance from connolly to the point? A few miles?

a mile. and its taken 3 years to build too.

Hungerford

rednik wrote: »

The points from Connolly to the Point will not be used and same for the Point to Connolly these points will also not be used.

So what the point of installing those points and making the junction unnecessarily complex?

jeckle

rednik wrote: »

The points from Connolly to the Point will not be used and same for the Point to Connolly these points will also not be used.

They will be used by anyone trying to get from Connolly to the Point & from the Point to Connolly & beyond.

markpb

Hungerford wrote: »

So what the point of installing those points and making the junction unnecessarily complex?

Future-proofing. If they need to run services east from Connolly, the work will be done and they won't need to disrupt services to put them in.

jeckle wrote: »

They will be used by anyone trying to get from Connolly to the Point & from the Point to Connolly & beyond.

There are no plans at the moment to run any services from Connolly to the point or vice versa.

KC61

markpb wrote: »

Future-proofing. If they need to run services east from Connolly, the work will be done and they won't need to disrupt services to put them in.



There are no plans at the moment to run any services from Connolly to the point or vice versa.

Not necessarily Mark - The timetable has yet to be decided.

It may well be that off-peak and in the evenings/at weekends trams may operate via Connolly to/from the Point.

antoinolachtnai

I must say, I feel a travelator coming on.

This is a big opportunity to re-craft public transport in the north docklands. Is it possible (track layout and platform capacity-wise) to run trains from the West to Docklands Station rather than Connolly? That would create a substantial two-way business on the Red Line rather than loading everything onto the westerly direction.

rednik

These points will NOT be used. Obviously in the case of an emergency then they will be used but at the moment the plan is not to use them.

jeckle

markpb wrote: »

There are no plans at the moment to run any services from Connolly to the point or vice versa.

There are no plans to close the line from Connolly to Busarus or vice versa, therefore commuters can get to Connolly to the Point & from the Point to Connolly. They will not be prevented from doing so.

KC61

rednik wrote: »

These points will NOT be used. Obviously in the case of an emergency then they will be used but at the moment the plan is not to use them.

Can I ask how you know this, given neither RPA/Veolia have revealed the service pattern yet?

markpb

jeckle wrote: »

There are no plans to close the line from Connolly to Busarus or vice versa, therefore commuters can get to Connolly to the Point & from the Point to Connolly. They will not be prevented from doing so.

That there are no plans to operate a direct tram from Connolly to the Point and vice versa. Of course people can get between those points, they'll just have to walk to Busaras instead. For clarity, here's an email from RPA:

RPA wrote:

Thank you for your e-mail. The schedules are being finalised but the most likely that two out of three trams will continue from Busaras to the Point and one out of three will terminate in Connolly. The final timetable is being will be circulated closer to operation of the new line.

Unless things change, trams will run Tallaght - Connolly or Tallaght - Point but never Tallaght - Connolly - Point.

rednik

I drive the trams and have just completed the first stage of training to the point.

KC61

Fair enough!

Thanks for the update.

Cool Mo D

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

I must say, I feel a travelator coming on.

This is a big opportunity to re-craft public transport in the north docklands. Is it possible (track layout and platform capacity-wise) to run trains from the West to Docklands Station rather than Connolly? That would create a substantial two-way business on the Red Line rather than loading everything onto the westerly direction.

It's possible to run the Sligo/Maynooth line to Docklands, but not any other line without a lot of difficulty.

KC61

Cool Mo D wrote: »

It's possible to run the Sligo/Maynooth line to Docklands, but not any other line without a lot of difficulty.

Trains from Pace are planned to operate to/from Docklands.

Nostradamus

Hungerford wrote: »

So what the point of installing those points and making the junction unnecessarily complex?

Because it is standard operating practice all over the world.

The eventual route of the Dockland Luas line is to go over the East Link Bridge to Landsdowne Road. (insert obligatory "but there is already a DART there" (which I will reply "is closed on match days...")

OK I understand in your myopic Orish "Joeeee!!!!" mindset that new fangled things are painful and terrifying to your understanding, so I have taken steps to help you. Because I am a nice man. Let me reach out to you. Together we can get though you fear and terrors.

I am currently holding the 1925 Dublin Tramway map and track routes and guess what. There were 33 such junctions back then in the city of Dublin. Including an amazingly intricate double delta junction at College Green. There were no firey explosion and lakes of blood resulting form these "deadly". "complex" tram junctions.

Please stop. You're making as issue out of nothing at all.

Nostradamus

Rockshamrover wrote: »

This section of Luas has to be the most expensive public transport system ever built, anywhere.

Not even close.

MiniD

Originally Posted by RPA
Thank you for your e-mail. The schedules are being finalised but the most likely that two out of three trams will continue from Busaras to the Point and one out of three will terminate in Connolly. The final timetable is being will be circulated closer to operation of the new line.

This doesn't sound too good. Considering trams run at an average of 7 minutes at peak and 15 minutes off peak, there will probably be gaps of 15 minutes on the Docklands section at peak times, and gaps of 30 minutes off peak. This flies in the face of the RPA advertising in the area which states "look what you can do in 6 minutes" pointing to how long it takes to travel that section of the line. The fact you could be waiting 15 or 30 minutes for your tram takes the shine off that statement.

This also means you could have passengers standing at the Connolly platform for 10 minutes while an outbound tram passes by a short distance away at Busaras.

I believe the success of Luas is down to it being fast, reliable and frequent. It takes 15/20 minutes to walk from the o2 to Busaras. Passengers should not have to wait that long for a tram.

munchkin_utd

Nostradamus wrote: »

Not even close.

Big dig in Boston was a wee bit dearer than the luas extention

3.5 miles tunnel, 5.6km, for a measley...
14 BILLION dollars.
And thats when the dollar was worth something so you'd be talking 18 to 20 Billion Euro.
Or roughly 3.2 Billion Euros per km.
Or better, 3.2 Million Euro per METRE!!!

so for the cost of the luas you could have 15 metres of Boston tunnel!!
Sure that wouldnt even get you round the corner from connolly station to the Harbourmaster pub!

Cool Mo D

MiniD wrote: »

This doesn't sound too good. Considering trams run at an average of 7 minutes at peak and 15 minutes off peak, there will probably be gaps of 15 minutes on the Docklands section at peak times, and gaps of 30 minutes off peak. This flies in the face of the RPA advertising in the area which states "look what you can do in 6 minutes" pointing to how long it takes to travel that section of the line. The fact you could be waiting 15 or 30 minutes for your tram takes the shine off that statement.

This also means you could have passengers standing at the Connolly platform for 10 minutes while an outbound tram passes by a short distance away at Busaras.

I believe the success of Luas is down to it being fast, reliable and frequent. It takes 15/20 minutes to walk from the o2 to Busaras. Passengers should not have to wait that long for a tram.

They run a good bit more frequently then that in my experience - getting the Luas to Heuston on Sunday morning a few weeks ago they were running every 10 minutes, and I'd say more like every 5 mins at peak.

KC61

Hungerford wrote: »

So what the point of installing those points and making the junction unnecessarily complex?

Better to provide for the possibility at the time of construction than not I would suggest.

Samba

I'm going to reserve my excitement for the day when I read a thread entitlted "Luas interconnection extension complete"

I'm a patient man.

MiniD

Cool Mo D wrote: »

They run a good bit more frequently then that in my experience - getting the Luas to Heuston on Sunday morning a few weeks ago they were running every 10 minutes, and I'd say more like every 5 mins at peak.

It can vary. For example, this morning at 8am, my stop had a gap of 11 minutes after my tram. While it's common to see two trams on the red line running within 3/4 mins of each other at peak times, there is very often a longer wait. Bear that in mind if a tram is not running to The Point, then your wait will be over 10 minutes at peak times.

To use your Sunday morning example, if trams were running at a 10 minute frequency with just every 2 trams serving The Point, you would have a gap of 20 minutes on that stretch of the line.

BrianD

Hungerford wrote: »

I'm a bit concerned about the potential for collisions at the triangle junction. The Luas doesn't really have a proper signal system as such and it also has driver operated points. It sounds like a recipe for disaster at such a relatively complex junction.

How is is complex? It's a relatively simple affair. Trams will be moving relatively slowly across the delta and it is signal controlled.

The Luas already have some sort of visual procedure that only one tram can be in a junction area at any one time. This is over cautious but will also reduce any potential for mishap.

There have been some other comments about whether the current economic conditions and the halt to construction in the Docklands will mean that the red line extension will be some what underused. One has to remember that there is a large community living in the East Road areas who are within easy walking distance of the line. The same with people in Ringsend who are only a short walk across the East Link bridge to the point village. Other bridges such as the Macken St Bridge and Sean O'Casey bridge mean that areas south of the river are within strolling distance of the red line.

In regards to future extensions. From what I heard is that if the line is to cross the river it will be heading more towards the Poolbeg Pininsula via Ringsend rather than Lansdowne Road. However, it would still be within easy walking distance of the stadium.

Speaking as someone working in the Docklands, we are really looking forward to it starting in December.

Aard

Does anybody have any links for the Luas extension beyond the Docklands?

loyatemu

there's no further extension in the Platform21 plans - the previous DTO plan had a line crossing the new Beckett Bridge toward Grand Canal Dock and then along the canal (map here). The new bridge has grooves in it for tram tracks but these will be unused for the forseeable future.

robd

Nostradamus wrote: »

Because it is standard operating practice all over the world.

The eventual route of the Dockland Luas line is to go over the East Link Bridge to Landsdowne Road. (insert obligatory "but there is already a DART there" (which I will reply "is closed on match days...")

OK I understand in your myopic Orish "Joeeee!!!!" mindset that new fangled things are painful and terrifying to your understanding, so I have taken steps to help you. Because I am a nice man. Let me reach out to you. Together we can get though you fear and terrors.

I am currently holding the 1925 Dublin Tramway map and track routes and guess what. There were 33 such junctions back then in the city of Dublin. Including an amazingly intricate double delta junction at College Green. There were no firey explosion and lakes of blood resulting form these "deadly". "complex" tram junctions.

Please stop. You're making as issue out of nothing at all.

Pity they wouldn't think or running it left, to the back of East Point, junction at Clontarf Road Station, Along the Coast, Up Vernon Ave, junction at Harmonstown Station (moved), up to Artane/Beaumont area.

Would take in large numbers in East Point, replace the very busy 130 bus route, and open up Artane/Beaumont and Malahide Road, all busy bus routes.

Nostradamus

robd wrote: »

Pity they wouldn't think or running it left, to the back of East Point, junction at Clontarf Road Station, Along the Coast, Up Vernon Ave, junction at Harmonstown Station (moved), up to Artane/Beaumont area.

Would take in large numbers in East Point, replace the very busy 130 bus route, and open up Artane/Beaumont and Malahide Road, all busy bus routes.

Apparently it is because of the coastal nature. Only commuters on one side of the tracks. Mind you, wasn't and isn't a problem for the DART.

*puts on locosexualesque apron*

cough...I think it would be a great idea have a Luas line run from the city centre through Coolook and then onto to Howth including running it along the old Hill of Howth tramway loop. It would be a huge tourist attaction and would make up for the lack of population on the Head itself... It would easily be the most scenic rail line in Ireland if this was done.

*ducks*

Maldini2706

loyatemu wrote: »

there's no further extension in the Platform21 plans - the previous DTO plan had a line crossing the new Beckett Bridge toward Grand Canal Dock and then along the canal (map here). The new bridge has grooves in it for tram tracks but these will be unused for the forseeable future.

Wow! I never saw that before, that's an impressive plan. That's a pretty all-encompassing setup, it looks like a modern city's plan rather than the medieval one we have now, and there's actually some services on the northside! When was it dropped? Was money the cause?

I've never understood why there's no link up from the Dart at Howth Junction to the proposed Metro, it would be relatively cheap for something that would integrate two systems and improve access to the city.

We have such a backwards attitude to public transport in this country, it's treated almost like a service for people who don't have cars rather than a replacement. When you go to cities like London or Barcelona you can see how a great public transport system can greatly increase the quality of life.

loyatemu

Maldini2706 wrote: »

Wow! I never saw that before, that's an impressive plan. That's a pretty all-encompassing setup, it looks like a modern city's plan rather than the medieval one we have now, and there's actually some services on the northside! When was it dropped? Was money the cause?

It was a long term master plan rather than something they were going to build in one go - tbh a lot of it was just lines on a pretty map. It's subsequently been superceded by Platform21 which is an actual government plan, though the current economic problems are likely to scupper large parts of it.

I've never understood why there's no link up from the Dart at Howth Junction to the proposed Metro, it would be relatively cheap for something that would integrate two systems and improve access to the city.

Donabate would be the obvious place to connect them - Metro North ends about 2km from the rail line there.

We have such a backwards attitude to public transport in this country, it's treated almost like a service for people who don't have cars rather than a replacement. When you go to cities like London or Barcelona you can see how a great public transport system can greatly increase the quality of life.

As Fatima Mansions once sang "Only losers take the bus" - when you're being ferried around in a Garda-driven limousine every day its difficult to empathise with the little people.