What makes a singer good?

brummytom

Can I just say before anyone says "Music Forum tbh/that way --->" why I've put it here.. basically I want the opinions of normal, joe public people, not just muso's. Mod's, if you think I'm wrong, then sorry, feel free to move it.

Anyway, my uncle's asked me to sing at this open mic thing he does. I normally play the banjo their, last time I played the bouzouki. But there's a part of me that always wanted to sing there.
So I recorded myself. I thought, you know.. I want to check what I sound like before I commit myself to singing. Played it back, yep, all the notes in the right place, stayed in tune/key... so technically I'm a good singer - but there's something about it that just doesn't sound 'good'.

So what does make a good singer? This is something I've been trying to work out.

I like James Taylor because he has such a soft, welcoming voice.
I like Ronnie Drew because he has such a coarse, harsh-sounding voice
I like people with voices in between these two.

Why?

What makes a singer for you, it's more than just hitting the right notes - what would make you take notice and listen to their voice?

liah

You gotta have soul, baby.

jumpguy

Nowadays you need to have an awesome synthesiser and you're set.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

The reason it doesn't sound good is because it's a Brum accent that's singing.:pac:

Seriously, ya need to have the "X Factor".

Mmcd

Audio or GTFO!

brummytom

baz2009 wrote: »

The reason it doesn't sound good is because it's a Brum accent that's singing.:pac:

Seriously, ya need to have the "X Factor".

I never sing in a Brummy accent :pac:

jumpguy wrote: »

Nowadays you need to have an awesome synthesiser and you're set.

Fair point... it's a shame

Pyr0

Post the clip and I'll decide if yer good or not.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

brummytom wrote: »

I never sing in a Brummy accent :pac:

Touché.:o

+1 on the audio or GTFO.:D

liah

brummytom wrote: »

I never sing in a Brummy accent :pac:

Just reminded me. Why do so many singers never sing in their natural accent? I have a thing for listening to music where people actually sing in their real accents just because it's so rare. Hate hearing Americanized accents all the time, it's nice to have a bit of change.

Is there a particular reason for it?

Warfi

brummytom wrote: »

Can I just say before anyone says "Music Forum tbh/that way --->" why I've put it here.. basically I want the opinions of normal, joe public people, not just muso's. Mod's, if you think I'm wrong, then sorry, feel free to move it.

Anyway, my uncle's asked me to sing at this open mic thing he does. I normally play the banjo their, last time I played the bouzouki. But there's a part of me that always wanted to sing there.
So I recorded myself. I thought, you know.. I want to check what I sound like before I commit myself to singing. Played it back, yep, all the notes in the right place, stayed in tune/key... so technically I'm a good singer - but there's something about it that just doesn't sound 'good'.

So what does make a good singer? This is something I've been trying to work out.

I like James Taylor because he has such a soft, welcoming voice.
I like Ronnie Drew because he has such a coarse, harsh-sounding voice
I like people with voices in between these two.

Why?

What makes a singer for you, it's more than just hitting the right notes - what would make you take notice and listen to their voice?

If you have to make a big effort to keep in tune, and hold the notes, you'll hear it in the song and won't translate well. I'm speaking from my own singing experiences .

Good singers sing effortlessly, in my opinion. Sharleen Spiteri has an effortless voice, with a nice deep ring to it too. Don't normally like female singers, I don't find their voices as soothing as male singers voices. I love Kelsey Grammer's voice whether he's singing or talking.

brummytom

Without trying to be that post that tries to go against the grain and desperately try to thanked, etc....

brummytom wrote: »

So what does make a good singer?

In a commercial sense? I'd imagine the answer is big tits. someone who is marketable. Have you heard many female 'singers' these days? Abysmal stuff altogether.


I'm sure theres a particular appearance that males are expected to qualify for, too.

Personally, for actual singing ability, I think it's really down to the person. I listen to a band called finger eleven a lot, and on one of their songs "Slow Chemical", the singer goes from melancholy singing, to an aggressive shouting-but-still-singing kinda deal. Captures the emotion of the song very well in my opinion (though I'm not much of an informed music person, so I can only talk about what I appreciate, i'm sure there are many who think the song is crap).


So pretty much, a good singer to me is someone who can alter their voice to assign an array of emotions to various pieces of music (without losing their voice or 'cracking' in the process).

Clare_Guy

whatever it is, cheryl cole has it! ;-)

DancingQueen:)

I don't know what it is but i just love people who can sing! Maybe it's cause i can't

I'm sure it's just because your hearing yourself back, ask someone else for another opinion - it's like hearing your own voice talking when you've recorded it, just sounds odd.
By the way, playing the banjo is awesome! Heard the best banjo player on Friday! i'm so jealous lol

brummytom

liah wrote: »

Just reminded me. Why do so many singers never sing in their natural accent? I have a thing for listening to music where people actually sing in their real accents just because it's so rare. Hate hearing Americanized accents all the time, it's nice to have a bit of change.

Is there a particular reason for it?

I don't know what accent I sing in tbh.. a weird kind of Irishy/English amalgamation.. just a general kind of 'folk' accent I picked up from my uncle's singing.

+1 For hating American accents. Every singer now seems to sing in one, no matter where they're from. And don't get me started on John and Edward...

An old folkie, who some people, might have heard of, Ewan Maccoll (Dad of Kirsty, writer of many great songs, probably most famously Dirty Old Town) had a real thing that 'every man must sing in his native voice'. While I can't say I do this myself, I agree with you, it's nice to hear it.

liah

Warfi wrote: »

Good singers sing effortlessly, in my opinion.

+1 to that. Some people just have "it" naturally, and they're the most pleasant to listen to. Roy Orbison, for example, naturally had a 4-octave range and it just belted out of him with no effort at all. It's beautiful to hear something like that. Gives you shivers.

brummytom

Warfi wrote: »

If you have to make a big effort to keep in tune, and hold the notes, you'll hear it in the song and won't translate well. I'm speaking from my own singing experiences .

Good singers sing effortlessly, in my opinion. Sharleen Spiteri has an effortless voice, with a nice deep ring to it too. Don't normally like female singers, I don't find their voices as soothing as male singers voices. I love Kelsey Grammer's voice whether he's singing or talking.

Oh no, it's not an effort at all.. I'm just saying that in listening to it I didn't hear it being out of tune at all, but yet it didn't sound good.

Never heard of Sharleen Spiteri, I'll check her out. Kelsey Grammer's voice is amazing, it was always a treat to hear him sing in Frasier :P

citizen_p

the ability to lip sync

MrMatisse

Big jugs.

Call Me Jimmy

Obviously if you have an ear for music, controlling your breathing is one of the most important things. The best singers don't even have to think about it I'd say it comes naturally but it's the same for Kevin Spacey delivering a class line in a film, the reason he sounds so cool is he has complete control over his breathing. Sounds sorta basic but I think it's a big part of any vocal performance.

liah

Deleted User wrote: »

In a commercial sense? I'd imagine the answer is big tits. someone who is marketable. Have you heard many female 'singers' these days? Abysmal stuff altogether.


I'm sure theres a particular appearance that males are expected to qualify for, too.

I agree and I don't. Some of those female singers, even doing the generic soulless pop stuff, do genuinely have great voices. It just gets overshadowed by the fact that they are marketable so people just say they get their publicity because they're hot. Which is true, but I wouldn't underestimate their talent, either. Remember Christina Aguilera? She has a brilliant voice on her but nobody really cared because she was hot, and she only really did some generic pop shíte.

It's kind of a shame, to be honest. I'd say a lot of female singers do for the most part sing well, I'd attribute it more to the songs and genres and styles of singing themselves than anything else that don't do the voices proper justice.

There's not that kind of struggle when it comes to men, at least not to the same degree. But that's just a mirror of general life; women are counted on to be attractive and everything else about them gets left in the dust whereas men are more recognized for what they are.

Sea Sharp

I'll try and give a proper answer for this.

I think it's all about the prosody of the singers voice (mono-tone is bad, but singing in the right pitch isn't enough).
The human voice is essentially, a far more flexible, musical instrument.

Also I hate people who say a song is crap because the lyrics are crap. If I want to appreciate cleverly put together words with deep hidden meaning I'll go out and buy a poetry book, thank-you very much.
I don't care if you're singing about the injustices in the world or if you 'got a feeling that tonight's gonna be a good night' it's how you sing it that determines whether or not it's good.

Dudess

Vocal gymnastics can be boring too - one of my favourite voices is that of Hope Sandoval, and her voice is a very soft, gentle, low one that tends to stay within the range of five or six notes.

There are lots of different types of good voice really.

brummytom

DancingQueen:) wrote: »

I don't know what it is but i just love people who can sing! Maybe it's cause i can't

Sorry for sounding stupid but I've never understood this.. it's always amazed me people who say they can't sing, it's not like it takes effort.
Obviously not everyone's voice will sound amazing, but surely everyone can stick a few words in a tune and sing it?

By the way, playing the banjo is awesome! Heard the best banjo player on Friday! i'm so jealous lol

Ah I love it.. it's my favourite instrument at the moment. People don't ignore it when I play it, it's an instrument with presence.. it's like myself, loud, ugly and obnoxious but some people still like it :pac:

liah

GaNjaHaN wrote: »

Also I hate people who say a song is crap because the lyrics are crap. If I want to appreciate cleverly put together words with deep hidden meaning I'll go out and buy a poetry book, thank-you very much.
I don't care if you're singing about the injustices in the world or if you 'got a feeling that tonight's gonna be a good night' it's how you sing it that determines whether or not it's good.

Agreed. Albeit somewhat ironically, considering Bob Dylan is my favourite overall artist.. :pac:

Wish people could just enjoy a song for how it sounds instead of trying to break it down into why it sucks all the time. Who cares if a song lacks talent if it's catchy and it sounds nice? Take it for what it is and stop overthinking it.

DublinWriter

brummytom wrote: »

So what does make a good singer? This is something I've been trying to work out.

LSD - Lead Singer Disease.

They must have an ego bigger than God's and a talent to match.

See Christy Dignam, Roger Daltry, Robert Plant et al.

Diabhal Beag

This thread has a lot of words :P To be a "good singer" nowadays you have to look attractive

Sea Sharp

Agreed. Albeit somewhat ironically, considering Bob Dylan is my favourite overall artist..

He know's how to throw his voice around, albeit to a very limited range.

kenon

I like originality in a singer. To enable them to stand out from a crowd. This seems to be done by using synths nowadays (Lady GaGa). But there are a rare group that can stand out vocally. E.g. Amy Winehouse can stand out from the crowd (in a singing sense) as she can sing quite low for a girl and she's sings kind of bluesy or soulfully.

Florence out of Florence and the Machine would be another young-one who I'd consider a great singer. Shes kind of quirky due to the song content but shes got great power in her voice and it can allow her to be very intense. Also shes got great range and timing which I think helps her stand out too.

Freddie Mercury is my favorite all time singer, I think very little needs to be said about his singing prowess.

Darlughda

It can be hard to say what makes one singer 'good' above another, it does seem to come down to personal taste, subjectivity and what appeals to you at a particular moment in time.

Personally, I go for a voice that may not be the most 'beautiful' in the way a person who goes for a 'miss beautiful' contest is not appealing, yet has raw emotion and meaning with a strong beat or rhythm behind their words or message. If you are not expecting multi-media imagery to illustrate your point or message, then the sheer presence of the singer/performer should be sufficient.

However, if its just an atmosphere or a party vibe you want to get going, then I would turn to a good d.j.

DancingQueen:)

brummytom wrote: »

Sorry for sounding stupid but I've never understood this.. it's always amazed me people who say they can't sing, it's not like it takes effort.
Obviously not everyone's voice will sound amazing, but surely everyone can stick a few words in a tune and sing it?

Ah I love it.. it's my favourite instrument at the moment. People don't ignore it when I play it, it's an instrument with presence.. it's like myself, loud, ugly and obnoxious but some people still like it :pac:

Sorry probably should have said that a bit different, I can sing but not very well! and that's understating it but i have other talents I do sing all the time though, i'm always singing something and i love listening to people who can sing with a good voice, just something about it.

Sounds strange but I havn't heard a lot of people playing the banjo. I was at this charity thing on Friday and this band played irish music (also obsessed with irish music - i'm not crazy just have things i like ) and it was amazing. Then i youtubed the banjo and i now love it too.

liah

Actually, I think I'll put in an honest, full answer for this, but it does relate to my first comment.

You gotta have soul.

It's just that thing. You need to have confidence in your voice, you gotta be able to translate the emotion of the song and send it out through your vocal chords. You have to capture the spirit of the meaning and convey it perfectly. You know how you can always tell when a singer is smiling? It's kinda like that. It's something subtle, but you just know it's there. It's an attitude, a personality. It's nearly an entity of its own. It makes you feel how it wants you to feel and doesn't leave you any other choice.

Loreena McKennit has one of those voices. Roy Orbison, as I mentioned earlier. Regina Spektor in her song "Samson," christ, it's all over that song. It's such a simple little song but there's just so much soul in it, it's effortless and it's believable. 4 Non Blondes' "What's Going On." Cowboy Junkies' "Sweet Jane." Eisley's "Golly Sandra." Obadiah Parker's "Hey Ya." Joan Baez's "Diamonds and Rust." Cat Steven's "Father and Son." Johnny Cash's cover of "Hurt."

If you force it, people can tell. It's just not the same. Real, proper singers put their whole heart and soul into their songs, and that's what's attractive about it.

Borneo Fnctn

Music is gone to ****e since Roy Orbison died.

brummytom

Mmcd wrote: »

Audio or GTFO!

Pyr0 wrote: »

Post the clip and I'll decide if yer good or not.

baz2009 wrote: »

Touché.:o

+1 on the audio or GTFO.:D

I'm not that evil :pac:

DancingQueen:) wrote: »

Sorry probably should have said that a bit different, I can sing but not very well! and that's understating it but i have other talents I do sing all the time though, i'm always singing something and i love listening to people who can sing with a good voice, just something about it.

Oh right, yep.. same. I sing to myself like a madman :pac: I wrote a song a few months ago because I was bored. It was a sort of silly irish-y folky song, so I sent the words to my mate who also likes the genre because he could appreciate more than others. He said he couldn't get a feel for it without hearing it, so I begrudgingly sent him an MP3 of me.. he stuck in on his iPod, the twat... played it at a party a few weeks ago, I could've killed him I was so embarrassed :o

Sounds strange but I havn't heard a lot of people playing the banjo. I was at this charity thing on Friday and this band played irish music (also obsessed with irish music - i'm not crazy just have things i like ) and it was amazing. Then i youtubed the banjo and i now love it too.

Really? I always got the impression the banjo was a fairly commonly played instrument over there. It is a great instrument though. I'm obsessed with Irish music too btw, there's nothing wrong with being different! :P

Agent Smith

brummytom wrote: »

What makes a singer for you, it's more than just hitting the right notes - what would make you take notice and listen to their voice?

when they OD on coke and end up fucking their life up.


Thats Entertainment

Dudess

liah wrote: »

Cowboy Junkies' "Sweet Jane

Aw weird. I just put that on, having listened to Mazzy Star's Fade Into You - totally associate them with each other.

liah

Dudess wrote: »

Aw weird. I just put that on, having listened to Mazzy Star's Fade Into You - totally associate them with each other.

Both fantastic songs. But Sweet Jane just gets me, the way she sings it, just.. I don't even know. It's not even a particularly rangey song. It's lovely though.

DancingQueen:)

brummytom wrote: »

Oh right, yep.. same. I sing to myself like a madman :pac: I wrote a song a few months ago because I was bored. It was a sort of silly irish-y folky song, so I sent the words to my mate who also likes the genre because he could appreciate more than others. He said he couldn't get a feel for it without hearing it, so I begrudgingly sent him an MP3 of me.. he stuck in on his iPod, the twat... played it at a party a few weeks ago, I could've killed him I was so embarrassed :o


Really? I always got the impression the banjo was a fairly commonly played instrument over there. It is a great instrument though. I'm obsessed with Irish music too btw, there's nothing wrong with being different! :P

What did people think at the party? I'm sure they loved it and your friend was trying to show everyone, although in saying that i don't know your friend.. Irish Folk songs rock!

It probably is, i wouldn't mind by i do irish dancing so you'd think i'd have heard it more than most. Maybe i did but didn't notice, but i will from now on.

Yeah it's no fun being normal :rolleyes:

*eadaoin

interesting thread! i'm assuming that you're asking about actual decent singers and not people in today's pop industry who often get away with being not such a great singer but a good performer/good looking?

i've spoken about this recently with my music teacher, we agreed while opinion on what a good singer is can be very diverse what it comes down to for us is if you would actually pay to hear someone sing. and i don't mean pay to see a whole show like the kind of thing singers like britney or kylie put on these days, but i mean literally pay money to hear them use their voice.

as for what actually makes a good singer i believe is a mixture of things, but the main ingredient i look for is passion for what they're doing, when they are singing they are essentially telling you a story and you have to believe them. i guess in the same way a good book or film will draw you into a story.

there are lots of people with good voices out there but i think to be a really good singer you have to work hard at it on all the technical stuff like breathing etc. as well as having the ability to express the meaning of the song with your voice. sometimes things like talent come naturally, but i don't think being a top quality singer comes too easily, it takes hard work and determination

Dudess

liah wrote: »

Sweet Jane just gets me, the way she sings it, just.. I don't even know. It's not even a particularly rangey song. It's lovely though.

I way prefer it to the original.

*eadaoin

liah wrote: »

Actually, I think I'll put in an honest, full answer for this, but it does relate to my first comment.

You gotta have soul.

It's just that thing. You need to have confidence in your voice, you gotta be able to translate the emotion of the song and send it out through your vocal chords. You have to capture the spirit of the meaning and convey it perfectly. You know how you can always tell when a singer is smiling? It's kinda like that. It's something subtle, but you just know it's there. It's an attitude, a personality. It's nearly an entity of its own. It makes you feel how it wants you to feel and doesn't leave you any other choice.

Loreena McKennit has one of those voices. Roy Orbison, as I mentioned earlier. Regina Spektor in her song "Samson," christ, it's all over that song. It's such a simple little song but there's just so much soul in it, it's effortless and it's believable. 4 Non Blondes' "What's Going On." Cowboy Junkies' "Sweet Jane." Eisley's "Golly Sandra." Obadiah Parker's "Hey Ya." Joan Baez's "Diamonds and Rust." Cat Steven's "Father and Son." Johnny Cash's cover of "Hurt."

If you force it, people can tell. It's just not the same. Real, proper singers put their whole heart and soul into their songs, and that's what's attractive about it.

i think you've really put your finger on it, this is what really attracts me to particular singers. if i don't believe someone, or if they're trying too hard with it, then it's no good to my ears. it's got to sound natural and unforced and you can feel the emotion in every word regardless of what they're singing about.

brummytom

DancingQueen:) wrote: »

What did people think at the party? I'm sure they loved it and your friend was trying to show everyone, although in saying that i don't know your friend.. Irish Folk songs rock!

It probably is, i wouldn't mind by i do irish dancing so you'd think i'd have heard it more than most. Maybe i did but didn't notice, but i will from now on.

Yeah it's no fun being normal :rolleyes:

Erm.. people liked it, they said. But teenagers are liars aren't they? :P
Yeah that's what he said he was doing, just playing it so other people could do it.. he's meant to be my best mate but I still think he did it to piss me off :P

Oh cool.. Irish dancers impress me so much, I can't dance for toffee. I know a few girls who do it, and I'm still in awe every time I see it.
Banjo's don't seemed to be used in the music though, it tends to be Fiddles/Whistles/Flutes/Eileann Pipes for dancing music.

And it's not! Who wants to be someone who just listens to the same music as everyone else? I mean, I like 'normal' music but I'm obsessed with Irish music.. and fúcking proud too

*eadaoin wrote: »

interesting thread! i'm assuming that you're asking about actual decent singers and not people in today's pop industry who often get away with being not such a great singer but a good performer/good looking?

Yep, that's what I mean. The voice itself, not the rest of the commercial rubbish :P

pipelaser

This Cat certainly got what it takes.
Unbelievably hard song to sing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX9LSOshOYY

*eadaoin

kenon wrote: »

Freddie Mercury is my favorite all time singer, I think very little needs to be said about his singing prowess.

freddie was a superstar, he really knew how to use his voice to its best potential and you always feel like you're having a good time listening to him perform (from the recordings i've heard anyway!). i think he also had a lot of charisma, people really liked him and that always helps if you want to be a lead singer!

eVeNtInE

This post has been deleted.

brummytom

eVeNtInE wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yeah, I suppose you're right. My dad loves Bob Dylan's voice. While I'm in awe of his song-writing skills, his voice just doesn't do it for me. My dad questions how I can say I don't like Bob Dylan's voice when I like Ronnie Drews :P

I think, also, song singers just have a presence about them I suppose.
A lad randomly popped up on msn telling me he loved the song "Building up and tearing down England" and talking about Ronnie's voice. I asked him had he listened to Luke Kelly, he said he'd never heard of it. So I gave him the link to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3jVBH5NHSk

He said after 33 seconds he'd already favourited it. Anyone I've ever tried to show that Irish music contains some amazing singers, I've started off by playing that song to them.

I don't know what it is, there's an amazing presence, power, emotion to it.

K-Ren

I feel that in general, it's just what sounds good to you, what you feel when you hear it, that's what so great about music. Bob Dylan's voice on Blonde On Blonde just makes me smile, it's so cool and weird. By the same token McCartney rocking out on something like I've Got A Feeling/Helter Skelter or the ethereal Lennon and Harrison on Happiness Is A Warm Gun or Within Without You. It just sounds great.

There's obviously another side to singing too, people like Roy Orbison or Minnie Riperton are technically good because people with vocal ranges like them don't come along very often.

Either way, it usually makes for some good listening.

Rev. BlueJeans

brummytom wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3jVBH5NHSk

Thanks for sharing. That was a song of my late father's, that I haven't thought of in over a decade, good to hear it again.

Interesting thread. I try to do the best I can with the one and a bit octaves at my disposal, and the nine or so chords I have on the acoustic (one at a time that is!).

Adyx

Dudess wrote: »

I way prefer it to the original.

:eek: It's good but it's not that good.

OT: Pro Tools with Auto Tune plugin ftw*. Just don't go mad with it like Cher.


*I don't actually believe this.

KnifeWRENCH

It's all very subjective. I think Bjork is an amazing singer, yet most people I know can't stand her.

There are a few traits that help though - having soul and authenticity are vital, and it's great if someone can sing effortlessly. The best female voice I can think of in those terms is Cat Power - on top of all that her voice is simultaneously melancholic and sexy. :P

Having a great vocal range doesn't really make one a great singer though. I'd always prefer an average singer singing a great song than a technically-fantastic singer singing a rubbish song*. I can appreciate that Celine Dion and Mariah Carey can reach extremely high notes but it doesn't make me want to listen to them. I'm sure Elvis had a good voice but apart from "Suspicious Minds" I wouldn't sit down and listen to him.

Yes, I realise this drags up the issue of "What is a good song"....but I couldn't be bothered getting into that!

mattfender

brummytom wrote: »

So what does make a good singer?

Autotune

curry-muff

Having lots of neighbouring countries according to the eurovision song contest :rolleyes: